So are all mutts "designer" now - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 100 Old 05-15-2006, 06:49 PM
 
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FYI, I just got off the phone with the lead puppymill investigator for Ontario, I asked her to take a look at Boon's breeder web page this morning and she just responded to me now. She spoke with her counter part for that area. Your "breeder" is indeed on the radar as a mill. Mills are VERY hard to shut down but to date she's had 7 investigations for promising papers for non-registerable dogs, in 2004 she registered 62 pups and they suspect that was just the tip of the iceberg as far as how many she actually produced. She is inspected not every other year as she reported to you but closer to every 6 mos--everytime they get a report they go out, unfortunately, they need to actually catch the act of cruelty to shut her down. In 2006 she has sent 35 dogs already across the border via puppy brokers (this is kept track of on our side)

She's bad, bad, bad news and she's on the radar in multiple states. She's bs'ing you in a huge way--but if you want to support her still, well all i can say is that you best double that donation to the humane society, because the price of your membership is nowhere near enough to offset the damage you do by sending even one person to her. It's so sad to see this incredible lack of passion against the blatently wrong here at MDC.
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#62 of 100 Old 05-15-2006, 06:58 PM
 
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Shannon, you rock my world.
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#63 of 100 Old 05-15-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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I'm with Joanna. Shannon is the woman.

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
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#64 of 100 Old 05-15-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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This is one instance where I wish my gut had been wrong.
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#65 of 100 Old 05-16-2006, 07:31 PM
 
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I just wanted to say thanks to Shannon and Joanna and for you both to know that while you may not have changed boongirls mind, you definately educated me and while I'm not in the market for another dog anytime soon ( our Boo is going strong at 11!) I WILL remember this thread and if for some reason we decide not to adopt, I will keep all of your excellent info in mind if we need to look for a breeder. Keep on educating, we're not all going to ignore the GREAT info you put out there!!!
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#66 of 100 Old 05-16-2006, 08:31 PM
 
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Man, this thread has been so educational and so eye opening...everyone looking for a puppy should read this. Shannon and Johanna have made wonderful points and I know lots of us really appreciate all the hard work you guys put into dogs. To a previous poster that mentioned purebreds can be found at shelters, I second that wholeheartedly. I volunteer at the Humane Society here in my city and I have seen (in the last year) 7 purebred labradors (some AKC registered),3 purebred german shepherds, 2purebred dalmations, many, many pit bulls and Staffys, Schnuazers, chihuahuas, yorkshire terriers,2 golden retreivers, boxers, weimerainers, and many mixes. And this is just from going once or twice a month!!! Imagine how many more have been through there on the days I havent been there? It is really discouraging to see someone openly support a puppy mill when there are so many others trying to fight puppy mills and backyard breeders.

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#67 of 100 Old 05-16-2006, 09:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by boricuaqueen327
Man, this thread has been so educational and so eye opening...everyone looking for a puppy should read this. Shannon and Johanna have made wonderful points and I know lots of us really appreciate all the hard work you guys put into dogs. To a previous poster that mentioned purebreds can be found at shelters, I second that wholeheartedly. I volunteer at the Humane Society here in my city and I have seen (in the last year) 7 purebred labradors (some AKC registered), 3 purebred german shepherds, 2 purebred dalmations, many, many pit bulls and Staffys, Schnuazers, chihuahuas, yorkshire terriers, 2 golden retreivers, boxers, weimerainers, and many mixes. And this is just from going once or twice a month!!! Imagine how many more have been through there on the days I havent been there? It is really discouraging to see someone openly support a puppy mill when there are so many others trying to fight puppy mills and backyard breeders.
I agree. Thank you both for all the help and caring you put into this forum, it is greatly appreciated by people like me who love our dogs but don't really know a lot. I third the pp and add another option--our SPCA is not the greatest, but there are a few rescue groups in our area that are non-breed specific and are just amazing. I got my little dog by calling a rescue organization and giving them my "wish list". They helped me decide what kind of dog would best fit my family, called when a dog that fit what I wanted came in, and then when she had nipping issues and was destructive, they gave me excellent advice that got us through the rough period right after we adopted her. I can't say enough good about them--they truly wanted to match dogs with just the right owners, and people with just the right dogs.

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
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#68 of 100 Old 05-16-2006, 11:03 PM
 
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Thanks you guys I guess if just one person learns something than it is all worth while.










But...does this mean you don't think the Danherds would sell???
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#69 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 01:40 AM
 
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I wanted to add that I think Shannon and I are both recovering from this thread--it's been sort of traumatic. But we are both very glad if it helped anyone.

I've added a link to my website in my signature; I plan to incorporate a lot of the questions brought up in this thread.

Joanna
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#70 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 01:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shannon0218
Thanks you guys I guess if just one person learns something than it is all worth while.










But...does this mean you don't think the Danherds would sell???
Maybe if you came up with a catchier name......dan-oodle-herds?

I personally like my 'weiner-bull' part weiner dog, part pit bull-maybe I should make a bunch of her. Or, my huskard (huskie/shepherd).

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#71 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 02:25 AM
 
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I think we have to make it catchier too.

In the designer dog world, "Royal" or "King" is a code word for "oversized"--so it would have to be Royal DaneSheps or King DaneDogs or something.

We could advertise the best of both worlds--Danes were bred to kill boar, and Shepherds to herd and protect, so of course these babies will go out, herd up a couple of pigs, bring 'em home and then quarter them for you.

We could sell them on a sliding scale depending on how "Royal" they look like they'll be. I see dollar signs!

I do know of a couple of Sch Danes, so the protection work wouldn't be an issue--though a 120-lb King Daneherd hitting a sleeve would be a little difficult to stand up under!
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#72 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:23 AM
 
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I'd just want to see how much a Daneherd would eat.

As for purebreds at the shelter, when we were checking out the dogs from a local adoption org. last night, there was an Irish setter, Jack russel, and a Catahoula leopard dog. Of course, there were the mutts, the two I'm interested in were lab mixes(anyone ever heard of a Kelpie/lab mix? She was gorgeous, and the perfect size for our family, and she would make a nice fit with my dog...and then there was Shadow(lab, maybe Rott, and something longer haired mix), who was ultra-playful, and always has to have a toy in his mouth. How am I going to decide?)

And then there were the puppies, they had 4 shepherd/cocker/something else mix puppies there. Mom is a small shepherd cross, but the puppies all looked like dad(the cocker) They were so adorable, if I was up to a puppy again, I'd totally want one.

And that's another point, when you adopt an older dog, you don't have to go through housetraining, and all the other puppy things.
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#73 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:28 AM
 
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*swoon* Joanna, your dogs are SO GORGEOUS!!! I don't know why giant dogs make my heart skip a beat... I have always wanted a Dane. But no Daneherds for me, thanks. I love my purebred Shepweilrador.

Another thanks for the education, Joanna and Shannon. I bought my first dog (Doberman) from a backyard breeder, but had realized long ago that was stupid (tho he was absolutely perfect) and all my other dogs will be rescues. But thank you for sharing all this info so I can educate others.
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#74 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamapixie
I'd just want to see how much a Daneherd would eat.

And that's another point, when you adopt an older dog, you don't have to go through housetraining, and all the other puppy things.
Well, my dane-ador (I like that better than Lab/dane...there's my catchy name ) is 120 lbs and eats about 6 cups of food a day. We go through around a 40 lb bag a month (which counts the 3/4 cup a day my dasch-huhua eats ). He's lazy as anything though, if he were actually doing some work I'd think he'd need more food

And oh yes, not dealing with housetraining...just that is worth adopting an older dog!

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
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#75 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:35 AM
 
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I just want to know what Shannon is going to do with her cairndoodle I'm sure it will make a great addition to her family Have you come up with a name for the little mutt?

Or, her and Joanna could breed it to their most royalist of Kingdanherds and call the results..................... Prince Candooerd? That'll need a little work.

This thread came at exactly the right time for me and I just wanted to add another thanks to Shannon and Joanna. It was a frustrating read for me, but very educational.
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#76 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shannon0218
So silly....but ya know, if there's a market, some dork will fill it.
About 8 yrs ago we had an ooops litter of Giant Schnauzer/German Shepherd crosses (new neighbor....tied a Giant schnauzer she as SHOWING out in the front yard...my Havoc, studly beast that he is braved the invisible fence to go check it out....very funny looking pups resulted )
We gave the pups away. It was a joke at the time what could we call them. Little did we know we could have received top dollar for those munchkins if we could have found some neat name for them...Schnauzherds maybe...?
I saw one the other day, nice dog, but it's a MUT!!!!!!!!!! just like all the other mutts that don't have a cutsie name!!!!!!

whenever I hear about them I can't help but think of my clients who bought a "rare" long haired Rottweiller. Ummm, ok, congrats on paying $5000 for a fault.
I have seen many long haired rotties; they are popular in Houston of all places..... Personally I preferr the regular ones.....I have a hard time with hair....

The labradoodles are the in thing now. They are cute but many of them have various health issues and cost an arm and a leg.
I call my dobe mix a designer dog.....he cost me a lot of money because of health issues at one time. My chow bulldog is the ideal dog. Sturdy as a rock, and really cool looking. He does not cost me an arm and a leg in vet bills either and NOT a picky eater! Yeah!!!!
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#77 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thekimballs
I think we have to make it catchier too.

In the designer dog world, "Royal" or "King" is a code word for "oversized"--so it would have to be Royal DaneSheps or King DaneDogs or something.

We could advertise the best of both worlds--Danes were bred to kill boar, and Shepherds to herd and protect, so of course these babies will go out, herd up a couple of pigs, bring 'em home and then quarter them for you.

We could sell them on a sliding scale depending on how "Royal" they look like they'll be. I see dollar signs!

I do know of a couple of Sch Danes, so the protection work wouldn't be an issue--though a 120-lb King Daneherd hitting a sleeve would be a little difficult to stand up under!
King Daneherd, there's the PERFECT name, and can herd the flock, then kill them for you- PERFECT. You 2 need to get together and make this happen, it's the next big thing.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#78 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 11:03 AM
 
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Thanks to Joanna and Shannon for talking about this. I was raised with mini/toy poodles my entire life and I am sure many of them came from backyard breeders. Just visiting this forum really opened my eyes to quite a bit.

When it came time a year ago to add a dog to our family, I used all the excellent information found here at MDC to locate a local rescue group where we adopted our beloved poodle (or poodle cross - we're not sure). He is so loving and we were able to give him a home without having to go through potty training. I will never again "purchase" another animal - I will be more than happy to spend my money (adoption fees here are almost the same as the purchase price on a puppy mill dog) on a shelter dog where I know that money will go to helping find homes for many wonderful pets.

Thanks to you I always mention the rescue group when people ask where our little one came from. It is funny to see how surprised people are that our "angel" with such good manners (which he mostly taught himself - he is extremely smart) was given to a rescue group because his first family didn't have time for him.

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#79 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by boongirl
3. I am defending the labradoodle and the labradoodle only. When I was researching labradoodles, I did not find anything even remotely like a puppy mill.
Don't mean to gang up on you, Boongirl, just wanted to let you know that there is a huge, booming industry of puppy mills that produce doodles in the PA area (and perhaps elsewhere - I hear rumors of the west coast having a similar industry). I was very interested in adopting a labradoodle, because I adore labs and grew up with them, but the shedding/allergy issue was a bit of a dealbreaker for DH. I was working with a rescue group and every week it seemed there were scads of labradoodle-puppy mill horrors revealed and new dogs coming from the mills. (I understood from the rescue group that many of the Amish ran these mills and that they would breed the animals intensely for 2 -3 years, then shoot or drown them when they outlived their useful life.) The ones coming out of the mills were mostly 2 - 3 year old terrified, unsocialized doodles that had been rescued from that undeserved death.


I keep in touch with the woman who was helping me (I'm ever hopeful I can foist a second dog on DH after he has gotten over the shock of one - heh) and she tells me that as labradoodles become more and more popular, there are concomitantly bigger and bigger numbers of them ending up in rescue, so rescue doodles are suffenly durned easy to find, much more than even a year ago when I was looking. The "complaints" (ie, the reason so many of them need to be re-homed) against them are similar to complaints against labs (big, hyper, lots of energy, constant need for attention and exercise).

I have nowhere near the level of expertise that Shannon and other breeders exhibit - I am merely a concerned animal lover and life-long dog owner, but I second that dog trends spell bad news for the animal. Has anyone heard of the "Buddy backlash"? After Prez Clinton got his chocolate lab Buddy, they were suddenly the hot dog and every idiot wanted one. About 9 - 10 months later the shelters and rescues were full of unwanted male chocolates.

I ended up convincing DH that I would vacuum religiously if we could adopt a labbie, and so in October we welcomed a Hurricane Katrina survivor, a male yellow lab, into our home. He's a great guy and we adore him. I am a big fan of breed-specific rescues and shelters.

Mama to 2 mopheaded rascals
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#80 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 12:15 PM
 
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I like the KingDaneherd. Ya know Joanna....I have enough frozen semen from Havoc for 3 breedings I wonder what kind of coat we'd get??
They shouldn't eat too much, once you combine the shepherds back end with the danes, most of them wouldn't be able to walk too far
I'm trying to visualize the whole pit bull daxie cross thing...I think it's making my brain hurt.
Joanna, I have yet to see a dane do bitework....I just don't want to be the one wearing that sleeve!! My cutoff for being an agitator is 55 lbs, otherwise the dog is capable of dragging me out to the bush!! Can you get that beautiful flying bite with a dane--I know everyone was pretty impressed that we could get one out of a boy Havoc's size. One of my favorite bitework pics is Havoc with his entire body at the height of the agitator's chest, all 4 legs spread out so he'd fly--he loved it if a decoy was strong enough to get him off the ground. You can't see on the still pic but I remember that bite and while he was swinging in the air, his tail was wagging like mad, not sure if he was happy or going for some sort of propellor. When I was trialing Java, she had the BEST guard. She'd go into the blind and then hop up and down on her back feet, always barking on the way up, she'd go up and down like she was on a pogo stick and she could get up about a good foot above the decoy's head. One trial we got a poor newby for a decoy, I overheard him talking to the judge after so the judge could confirm if the dog bumped him or not (points off if she had touched him) He said "No, she didn't touch me but man my face is covered in spit from when she barked in my face....I need to go change my pants!"

I remember the whole Buddy thing-it happened here even though he's not our president. Problem too is that the chocolates already were harder to handle, once everyone started breeding just for chocolate it just got worse.
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#81 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 12:16 PM
 
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Oh Joanna, on your website where you say a Dane may not be for you....it brought me back to when I worked at the newf kennel. The first thing out of their mouth when a prospective puppy person came was "If you find gobs of drool dripping from your ceiling fan gross...a newf may not be for you!"
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#82 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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Oh, and I'm thinking between Joanna and I we should put together a list of what to look for in a breeder (or even a rescue--if a rescue tells you they have tons of dogs that are perfect for you--they're lying) and have Karen make it a sticky on the top of the page--that way it's easy for people to look up and decide if where they're looking is reputable.
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#83 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shannon0218
Oh Joanna, on your website where you say a Dane may not be for you....it brought me back to when I worked at the newf kennel. The first thing out of their mouth when a prospective puppy person came was "If you find gobs of drool dripping from your ceiling fan gross...a newf may not be for you!"
Oh my gosh, Joanna I love your website too During puppyhood (and we only had him from 7 months old on) my dane-ador ate two dining room chairs (well, the legs) a chunk of carpet and a piece from the *middle* of the wall--not the corner, the middle. We never did figure out how he got his mouth around it And his tail should be registered by itself as a hazard in the home--the poor thing knocks over stuff on the coffee table all the time, and it scares the crap out of him One of the many reasons I'm glad we are getting rid of that darn table!

Mom to Liz (14) and Dillon (3) and Mitchell FINALLY born 7/11/10!
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#84 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 01:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shannon0218
I'm trying to visualize the whole pit bull daxie cross thing...I think it's making my brain hurt.
I don't know if this link will work, but I'll try http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...202/t_=8414202

http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/A...202/t_=8414202

She's long and short like a daschund, but about 20-25 lbs, so stocky, with a pit like face. When we first saw her, the shelter paper said 'daschund/terrier' but her license/tag info said daschund/pit bull.

If these don't work, I don't know how to make them....let me know, please.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#85 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 02:31 PM
 
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She is so stinking cute! You can plainly see both breeds in her; how fun.
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#86 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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See, she's perfect. Will you come make my new breed of 'weinerbull'? Very smart, low shedding, great temperment, etc.

Please, pretty please, pretty pretty please, with sugar on top????? :

Just kidding, of course. She's perfectly unique and I'd like to keep her that way. It took a long time to fine her, and she's exactly what we were looking for.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#87 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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I knew a basset hound/husky mix. She had the body and legs of a basset hound, with the husky eyes(blue/brown) and had a husky tail and face. She was definitely unique.

So..with these designer pets, who decided that a pug-beagle cross would be cute, or make a good mix at all?
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#88 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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Before we got our mini schnauzer spayed, we laughed about her and my male cocker having pups - we were going to call them schnockers! We could have made a fortune!
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#89 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 03:01 PM
 
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Well, speaking of schnauzers...found a picture of my dog not long after a grooming. I guess I could call him a schnointer.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...2168343711.jpg
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#90 of 100 Old 05-17-2006, 03:07 PM
 
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mamapixie,

I love your schnointer!!!
I used to have a schnabrador:
http://users.wireweb.net/rdbaker/buddy.jpg
And now I have a schnutt:
http://users.wireweb.net/rdbaker/monkey1.jpg
All free. And all came to me when they were around 2 years old (for free).

...But your Schnointer is adorable!
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