Having carnivourous by nature pets on a veg diet? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
Lizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey mamas,
I was thinking while reading my Veg News about how people feed their cats, dogs, etc veg foods when they are,by nature, carnivores.
I am wondering what you all think about it.
I feel kind of...not torn because I truly believe nature intended for these animals to eat meat for reasons we as humans aren't really intended to (ie: they have short intestines while ours ar every long, they have teeth meant for eating it while we do not, they are part of the food chain in that way, etc), but feeling like i'd like ot hear other's perspectives. I know so many pet food companies are just horrible, most I boycot. I like to buy local food I trust for our little kittie.
I wonder where you all stand on this issue.
Lizzo is offline  
#2 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 03:26 PM
 
rayo de sol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cats are obligate carnivores. They *need* meat.

I too boycott the pet food industry, and I make my kitty's food from scratch. I follow the recipes in
Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats.

He is very pro-vegetarian, and he has vegetarian recipes for making your own dog food. But cats need meat, although you could feed them an egg-based meal occasionally.

Pitcairn has a simple recipe for an egg-based meal for cats that is basically 2 eggs beaten and supplemented with bone meal (or eggshell powder or some other calcium supplement) and nutritional yeast. He has a similar recipe for dogs that is basically the same ingredients plus oatmeal. He also recommends adding beans to the diets of dogs, although I think you would want to include at least some source of animal food in a dog's diet in addition to the beans and grains.

I used to feed my dog a homemade vegan diet of lentils, rice, vegetables, and extra virgen olive oil, but I now regret this because my dog died at a relatively young age of heart problems. I really miss her...

I hope this helps...
rayo de sol is offline  
#3 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 06:20 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cats do not *need* meat, and neither do dogs. I suggest reading the book Obligate Carnivore

As for animals being ment to eat meat because of the way their systems are. They were ment to eat meat not proccesed products formed into pellets (no matter how local or ethical the company is). So if that's your reasoning behind contributing to the torture and slaughter of innocent animals I certainly hope your doing what there designed to and feeding them raw whole meat.

Now ask yourself this: if that pet food were made out cats and dogs instead of cows, chickens and pigs would you still be okay buying it? What makes say a dog worth more than a pig?
defectgrrrl is offline  
#4 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 06:26 PM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
cats are carnivores. plain and simple. We had a cat (just lost him this fall) and we respected his diet and fed him the best and kindest brand of food possible.

dogs are omnivores. they CAN live on a veg diet- but, from my personal experiance... they do not thrive as well on this diet. My dog was a vegetarian for his first few years of life and I just couldn't sacrifice his health so, again, we feed them the best and most kind food we can.
edamommy is offline  
#5 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 06:51 PM
 
stacyann21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't understand how someone can use the argument that humans aren't meant to eat meat for vegetarianism and then turn around and say it doesn't matter that cats are carnivores or dogs do best on diets that include meat, they should still be vegetarians??

Mom to a bright & energetic 6 y.o. boy  blahblah.gif   With my sweetie for 10 years now  blowkiss.gif  Registered nurse  caffix.gif

stacyann21 is offline  
#6 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:05 PM
 
rayo de sol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacyann21 View Post
I don't understand how someone can use the argument that humans aren't meant to eat meat for vegetarianism and then turn around and say it doesn't matter that cats are carnivores or dogs do best on diets that include meat, they should still be vegetarians??
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
Cats do not *need* meat, and neither do dogs. I suggest reading the book Obligate Carnivore
I strongly disagree with you. Do you have a study you would like to cite to back up your claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
As for animals being ment to eat meat because of the way their systems are. They were ment to eat meat not proccesed products formed into pellets (no matter how local or ethical the company is). So if that's your reasoning behind contributing to the torture and slaughter of innocent animals I certainly hope your doing what there designed to and feeding them raw whole meat.
Uh...did you read my whole post? Did you somehow miss the part where I explained that I boycott the pet food industry and that I make my cat's food from scratch??? I will spell it out: my kitty is eating fresh raw meat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
Now ask yourself this: if that pet food were made out cats and dogs instead of cows, chickens and pigs would you still be okay buying it? What makes say a dog worth more than a pig?
I don't think cats are meant to eat other cats. I wouldn't eat other humans either!
rayo de sol is offline  
#7 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:34 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayo de sol View Post
I strongly disagree with you. Do you have a study you would like to cite to back up your claim?



Uh...did you read my whole post? Did you somehow miss the part where I explained that I boycott the pet food industry and that I make my cat's food from scratch??? I will spell it out: my kitty is eating fresh raw meat.


Yeah I cited an entire book, there was a link to it.

And the rest of my post was for the OP not you. She is the one that was wondering about feeding pet food with meat or not because of the way animals are built.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#8 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:40 PM
 
rayo de sol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
Yeah I cited an entire book, there was a link to it.
Yeah, but that book is obviously biased. Citing a book is not as convincing as citing a scientific study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
And the rest of my post was for the OP not you. She is the one that was wondering about feeding pet food with meat or not because of the way animals are built.
Oops, sorry.
rayo de sol is offline  
#9 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:47 PM
 
mothragirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: neverland
Posts: 3,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
all animals need biologically appropriate diets. dogs/cats NEED meat to thrive.
mothragirl is offline  
#10 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:48 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayo de sol View Post
Yeah, but that book is obviously biased. Citing a book is not as convincing as citing a scientific study.
The book has studies. If your really interested read it. And frankly I've been through this argument before enough times to last me a lifetime. Clearly your mind won't be changed no matter what I cite so why should I bother? Anything I have said has been for the OP, I have no interst in arguing a moot point with you. I know where my morals and ethics lie and I follow them. And my animals are smashingly healthy to boot.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#11 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 07:52 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Perhaps along with people's opinion on feeding animals they should say whether they are veg*n as well. That may be more helpful to the OP's question since she wanted to know how veg*ns feel about pet food.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#12 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 08:06 PM
 
rayo de sol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
Cats do not *need* meat, and neither do dogs.
Is there *any* animal that you would agree is an obligate carnivore?
rayo de sol is offline  
#13 of 82 Old 11-15-2006, 08:09 PM
 
Mamma Mia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dogs and cats are both omnivores. Not carnivores. In wild settings they would eat plants and meat. That makes them omnivores.
Mamma Mia is offline  
#14 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 12:52 AM
Banned
 
Pandora114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shamelessly using "devices"
Posts: 7,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamma Mia View Post
Dogs and cats are both omnivores. Not carnivores. In wild settings they would eat plants and meat. That makes them omnivores.
Cat's are carnivores. They only eat vegetables when they eat something (carrion) that doesn't agree with them and need to vomit it up. That's IT. The veggies they get from the stomachs of their prey are already partially digested by said prey item.

If you want your CAT to THRIVE feed him a raw diet. Yes, that means you having to handle raw meat. Or, toss the critter some mice and birds, what a cat would eat in the wild.

But of course that goes against your ethics.

If you are so strongly opposed to ANYTHING that eats meat, dont own a pet that needs it to thrive. get a bird, or a rabbit or an herbiverous pet. Dont force your ethics on an animal that clearly wont thrive and possibly become ill and die from being forced on a purely veg diet.
Pandora114 is offline  
#15 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 11:22 AM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
three different vets I've worked for or known have considered cats as close to "true carnivore" as an animal can get.
edamommy is offline  
#16 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 11:24 AM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora114 View Post
Cat's are carnivores. They only eat vegetables when they eat something (carrion) that doesn't agree with them and need to vomit it up. That's IT. The veggies they get from the stomachs of their prey are already partially digested by said prey item.

If you want your CAT to THRIVE feed him a raw diet. Yes, that means you having to handle raw meat. Or, toss the critter some mice and birds, what a cat would eat in the wild.

But of course that goes against your ethics.

If you are so strongly opposed to ANYTHING that eats meat, dont own a pet that needs it to thrive. get a bird, or a rabbit or an herbiverous pet. Dont force your ethics on an animal that clearly wont thrive and possibly become ill and die from being forced on a purely veg diet.
: although I have to add, my soul-veg*n bunny, Nelly, murdered a mouse last week.... no one's safe! lol
edamommy is offline  
#17 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 11:26 AM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothragirl View Post
all animals need biologically appropriate diets. dogs/cats NEED meat to thrive.

actually dogs can survive and thrive, but it's a lot of work. Supplements. constant vigil on how their health is and what they need. I so wanted my dog to be a vegetarian and he suffered because of my attempts. I swear, within a month of going on a chicken/rice quality fod diet... he shined!

cats do need meat. to live.
edamommy is offline  
#18 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 12:49 PM
 
vgnmama2keller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We are a vegan household and so is our dog. We buy our veggie dog food from petco and while I hate to give them money we can't afford or get to any other veggie dog foods. It is kind of like buying organic and veggie products from big corporations- I hate to do it but sometimes I would rather buy that than non organic. I would also like to add that we had our dog on a dog food from our local natural foods store and it had worse things in it than what we give him now and he loves his food and his overall health mental and physical has improved. This was researched by us as well as fellow vegan friends that give this food to their dogs.

Kari
vgnmama2keller is offline  
#19 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 12:54 PM
 
hanno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 4,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamma Mia View Post
Dogs and cats are both omnivores. Not carnivores. In wild settings they would eat plants and meat. That makes them omnivores.
That's a really good point. My kitties both love to eat wheatgrass and catnip and my younger one will do ANYTHING for soy ice cream (he's only allowed a couple licks) and we have to keep anything we're eating with vegenaise, earth balance or nutritional yeast on it far away from him or it will disappear as soon as you turn your head.
In wild settings, an 8 pound cat would not kill and eat a cow. I have never seen mouse, insect or sparrow food on the market.
Things are pretty heated on this issue but I guess I don't feel too bad 'forcing my morals' on my dog and cats just as I will any children under my care.
As long as they are happy and healthy and satisfied with their vegan diets I will continue to feed it to them. When the kitties switched, they actually were more eager to eat the veg food then they ever have the expensive organic stuff I used to get them. Their coats became softer in weeks and in 6 months the too-skinny one filled out and the too-fat one got down to a good size and has more energy and plays a lot more. Their ph is perfect (better than mine even). Honestly, my dog's coat was like silk when we got her, and it still is on a veg diet. She's in great health. I can't really tell what she prefers because she'll get uber excited to eat anything at all you put in front of her, moreso if you come bearing cooked squash.
Please don't flame me, I love the animals in my care and I love 'food' animals too. I do what I feel in my heart is best while being very in tune with their health. If there were ever any indication that they were not doing as well as they could be, I would opt for meat if it would help.
hanno is offline  
#20 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 04:11 PM
 
Mamma Mia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora114 View Post
Cat's are carnivores. They only eat vegetables when they eat something (carrion) that doesn't agree with them and need to vomit it up. That's IT. The veggies they get from the stomachs of their prey are already partially digested by said prey item.

If you want your CAT to THRIVE feed him a raw diet. Yes, that means you having to handle raw meat. Or, toss the critter some mice and birds, what a cat would eat in the wild.

But of course that goes against your ethics.

If you are so strongly opposed to ANYTHING that eats meat, dont own a pet that needs it to thrive. get a bird, or a rabbit or an herbiverous pet. Dont force your ethics on an animal that clearly wont thrive and possibly become ill and die from being forced on a purely veg diet.
When I had cats they ate vegetables. Wheatgrass, catnip, grass outside, stolen veggies from my plate... And I never saw them eat those things to throw up.

In any case, my point was that the word 'carnivore' should be used properly. Dogs are in no way considered carnivorous. And I can think of animals that are more truly carnivorous than domesticated cats, which yes, have been domesticated and therefore have access to my cooked veggies. Perhaps wild cats are more carnivorous? Most domesticated cats that I've met ate some level of plant matter aside from the filler that was in their cat food.

I don't want to get into the big hoopla about raw diets. I just want to clarify terms that should stay clear. I have a young child in my house who has never been exposed to the pathogens that can be found in raw animal products and so not only as a vegan, but as a mother, I don't consider it an option for us. I'd like to stay away from the debate as I know some folks feel very strongly about it.
Mamma Mia is offline  
#21 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
Lizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
Cats do not *need* meat, and neither do dogs. I suggest reading the book Obligate Carnivore

As for animals being ment to eat meat because of the way their systems are. They were ment to eat meat not proccesed products formed into pellets (no matter how local or ethical the company is). So if that's your reasoning behind contributing to the torture and slaughter of innocent animals I certainly hope your doing what there designed to and feeding them raw whole meat.

Now ask yourself this: if that pet food were made out cats and dogs instead of cows, chickens and pigs would you still be okay buying it? What makes say a dog worth more than a pig?
Ummmmmm, look, I was looking for a discussion that's all. I tried to sound unbiased simply because I was just looking for other people's opions and ideas. I don't think you needed to come off so rudely.
And also, I stated that I am aware of the torture that goes on in conventional pet food companies.
People learn by being treated kindly and with respect, Not like they are stupid and need to be yelled at.
And thank you for clarifying that I want veg*n's points of views. Although I respect what everyone has to say and of course everyone can answer, I am curious about people who chose ot live with a diet similar to mine inparticular.
Lizzo is offline  
#22 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 07:47 PM
 
stacyann21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not a vegan, or even a vegetarian but I agree that humans are probably not meant to eat meat. At least not in the quantity we do. However, various circumstances prevent me from eating the way I know I should. I stand by my argument that cats, especially, NEED meat in their diet. That's what is natural for them. I don't understand why anyone would force an unnatural diet on their animals when they use the same logic to explain their personal diet. If I were 100% vegan, I would not force my cats to be. Children are different as they are humans and the argument that humans aren't meant to eat meat still holds.

Mom to a bright & energetic 6 y.o. boy  blahblah.gif   With my sweetie for 10 years now  blowkiss.gif  Registered nurse  caffix.gif

stacyann21 is offline  
#23 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 08:09 PM
 
hanno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 4,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cats communicate pretty well if you pay attention. I've had to throw out or give away plenty of bags of food (meat based) because my cat didn't like it. I've seen her pick through kibble to sort the kind she liked from the kind she didn't when I tried to mix them. I've had her MEEP at me angrily until I put better food in the bowl. My in-laws cats were offered veg food and didn't like it, so they eat meat food. My cats like it a lot. The older one wasn't sure so she let the younger one try it first. He took a bite from my hand and started seaching for more so she took it as a good sign and tried it and loved it. I've had no complaints or meeps, unless the bowl is only half full because that's just too close to empty for them. I would certainly not force my cats to do anything.
hanno is offline  
#24 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 09:53 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanno View Post
In wild settings, an 8 pound cat would not kill and eat a cow. I have never seen mouse, insect or sparrow food on the market.
Things are pretty heated on this issue but I guess I don't feel too bad 'forcing my morals' on my dog and cats just as I will any children under my care.
As long as they are happy and healthy and satisfied with their vegan diets I will continue to feed it to them. When the kitties switched, they actually were more eager to eat the veg food then they ever have the expensive organic stuff I used to get them. Their coats became softer in weeks and in 6 months the too-skinny one filled out and the too-fat one got down to a good size and has more energy and plays a lot more. Their ph is perfect (better than mine even). Honestly, my dog's coat was like silk when we got her, and it still is on a veg diet. She's in great health. I can't really tell what she prefers because she'll get uber excited to eat anything at all you put in front of her, moreso if you come bearing cooked squash.
That's a good point.

We had the same reaction here when we switched. And my dog eats whole carrots as a treat *lol* He sees the bag in the fridge and starts begging.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#25 of 82 Old 11-16-2006, 09:58 PM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzo View Post
Ummmmmm, look, I was looking for a discussion that's all. I tried to sound unbiased simply because I was just looking for other people's opions and ideas. I don't think you needed to come off so rudely.
And also, I stated that I am aware of the torture that goes on in conventional pet food companies.
People learn by being treated kindly and with respect, Not like they are stupid and need to be yelled at.
And thank you for clarifying that I want veg*n's points of views. Although I respect what everyone has to say and of course everyone can answer, I am curious about people who chose ot live with a diet similar to mine inparticular.
This is a subject I feel strongly about. I wasn't talking about conventional pet food companies I was talking about the meat industry. You wanted opinions and I put mine out there, I'm sorry if you felt it was rude. Please realize that as an animal rights activist I am extremely passionate about issues like these.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#26 of 82 Old 11-17-2006, 12:38 AM
Banned
 
Pandora114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shamelessly using "devices"
Posts: 7,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
This is a subject I feel strongly about. I wasn't talking about conventional pet food companies I was talking about the meat industry. You wanted opinions and I put mine out there, I'm sorry if you felt it was rude. Please realize that as an animal rights activist I am extremely passionate about issues like these.
Well then, you want your cat to eat a close to as natural diet as possible:

First off, get a plastic kiddy pool. or just use your bath tub.

toss a mouse in the tub Put your cat in there. voila fed mouse

Get some feeder goldfish, let your cat eat out of the goldfish bowl.

Get a few cheap birds. let your cat eat that.

Cats are preditors. You dont want to support the factory farm, then there are ways to keep your animal happy and healthy and allowing it it's natural diet of MEAT.

But if your ethics rebuke that thought, DONT own a cat.

Cats in the wild (And yes, that includes fereal domesticated cats) Get their veggies from gut loaded prey.

Cats need taurine and various B vitamins to thrive properly. Guess what, those are available in meat...which a cat's stomach and intestines are built to digest.

Also cat's urinary systems are very delicate. Heck even commercial pet foods aren't good for cats urinary systems! I'll even give it that much! A cat fed closest to it's natural diet as can be will thrive and live a long healthy life. I've known barn cats who've never been fed a scrap of commercial pet food, but just subsided off of prey items, live for over 20 years. That's right. That's 5 more years than the average house cat, purely natural diet of prey.
Pandora114 is offline  
#27 of 82 Old 11-17-2006, 01:05 AM
 
defectgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora114 View Post
Well then, you want your cat to eat a close to as natural diet as possible:

First off, get a plastic kiddy pool. or just use your bath tub.

toss a mouse in the tub Put your cat in there. voila fed mouse

Get some feeder goldfish, let your cat eat out of the goldfish bowl.

Get a few cheap birds. let your cat eat that.

Cats are preditors. You dont want to support the factory farm, then there are ways to keep your animal happy and healthy and allowing it it's natural diet of MEAT.

But if your ethics rebuke that thought, DONT own a cat.

Cats in the wild (And yes, that includes fereal domesticated cats) Get their veggies from gut loaded prey.

Cats need taurine and various B vitamins to thrive properly. Guess what, those are available in meat...which a cat's stomach and intestines are built to digest.

Also cat's urinary systems are very delicate. Heck even commercial pet foods aren't good for cats urinary systems! I'll even give it that much! A cat fed closest to it's natural diet as can be will thrive and live a long healthy life. I've known barn cats who've never been fed a scrap of commercial pet food, but just subsided off of prey items, live for over 20 years. That's right. That's 5 more years than the average house cat, purely natural diet of prey.
Thanks for your input but I can see how my cats are thriving and so can their vet.
defectgrrrl is offline  
#28 of 82 Old 11-17-2006, 02:09 AM
 
Mamma Mia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanno View Post
Cats communicate pretty well if you pay attention. I've had to throw out or give away plenty of bags of food (meat based) because my cat didn't like it. I've seen her pick through kibble to sort the kind she liked from the kind she didn't when I tried to mix them. I've had her MEEP at me angrily until I put better food in the bowl. My in-laws cats were offered veg food and didn't like it, so they eat meat food. My cats like it a lot. The older one wasn't sure so she let the younger one try it first. He took a bite from my hand and started seaching for more so she took it as a good sign and tried it and loved it. I've had no complaints or meeps, unless the bowl is only half full because that's just too close to empty for them. I would certainly not force my cats to do anything.
I just hav to at this a little bit. This is why I love cats. They are so finicky and particular and not at all afraid to let you know what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by defectgrrrl View Post
And my dog eats whole carrots as a treat *lol* He sees the bag in the fridge and starts begging.
My dogs eat carrots as a treat too!

And for the record, not that I was planning to weigh in on this, but... One of my dogs does so.much.better. on a vegetarian diet due to his various allergies and skin/coat issues. The other dog could probably exist on what she dug out of the garbage can and thrive, but the one dog does better when he's veggie. I first discovered it when I tried avoderm veg. formula, which I took him off because it has soy and some studies show that it affects the lifespan of dogs. I haven't heard any studies that show how it is damaging. I just avoid it now.
Mamma Mia is offline  
#29 of 82 Old 11-17-2006, 10:57 AM
 
HelloKitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Next door to the possums
Posts: 11,874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgnmama2keller View Post
We are a vegan household and so is our dog. We buy our veggie dog food from petco and while I hate to give them money we can't afford or get to any other veggie dog foods.
Can you tell me what kind you are using? Currently we feed our dogs and cats not veg food - we use Wellness products - but each time I buy a huge bag of food I feel ill. I would love to be able to try the dogs at least on a veg food and see how they do. One of our dogs is a Saint Bernard so he eats A LOT!

I do think the cats need animal product so I wouldn't try switching them, although I might switch to a raw meat diet for them.

Great for nature studies! http://www.pleinairkids.com
Plein Air Kids - Handmade wooden art boxes for Budding Artists.
HelloKitty is offline  
#30 of 82 Old 11-17-2006, 07:55 PM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm a vegetarian ... and a vegan at home (I eat dairy out at other people's homes or in restaurants). I have a GSD who is a working dog. We train Schutzhund. I feed him a very high quality kibble that mainly has meat in it. I'd feed him raw, but I've tried everything under the sun and he won't touch it. He's just weird like that.

My dog exerts a lot of energy daily. He has a lot of muscle mass. He's powerful. In order to sustain that ... he needs a little more than vegetables. So, I provide it. For him, meat provides everything he needs. Dogs can't even digest vegetables on their own - you have to run them through a food processor first. In the wild, NO dog would choose a vegetable over that bunny hopping to the left. Whereas, if you put a 21st century human into the wild, I'm betting a lot of us would opt for the vegetable rather than chasing a bunny down.

I eat vegetarian/vegan because I think that is what's best for my body. I've seen a huge difference in terms of my health and energy when I switched to vegan. I don't do it for any other reason except health, i.e. I don't do it out of love for cows or pigs. I feed Roark meat for the same reason - it's what he needs, and what is best for his body in terms of the type of work we are involved in.

I would, however, be interested in seeing a long term study comparing the health, energy, and vitality of dogs fed meat and dogs fed a vegetarian diet. Short of that, nothing will convince me that meat isn't best for my dog.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off