Deaf Dogs Automatically Euthanized - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
phatchristy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Controlled chaos...
Posts: 9,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I found out one of my teaching colleagues has been breeding dalmations for the last couple of years. She briefly mentioned to me that she frequently has deaf puppies and that she automatically has them euthanized.

How common is this? I was wondering as I actually knew someone growing up that had a deaf dog (born deaf). My cat who passed last year from kidney disease was deaf (the most notable symptom was that he didn't meow, he was loud and "screamed" at us instead of meowing like a normal cat).

I was just wondering about how common this is in dogs and if it is something that people can "breed out"...?

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

phatchristy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 12:56 PM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
it's common in dalmations. "culling" is an awful practise supported by many animal breeders. Killing off the "imperfect" ones. very sad.

I have never had a "born" deaf animal. My 13 year old springer is 100% deaf as of about a year ago and he's adjusted so well. I'm glad that i taught him hand signals as a youngster because he has switched over to them w/ great ease.

I've known several blind dogs. One in particular stands out, her name is Molly and she's an akita. Her people got her a "sight dog" who wears a bell and Molly follows her everywhere and the other dog is actually trained to assist her!

Dogs make the most of what they've got. Hearing or not!
edamommy is offline  
#3 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 01:12 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know some people who do specifically deaf dog rescue. They get a lot of dalmations and danes. There seems to be some deafness gene or something...? The deaf danes are almost always white, too.
Scribe is offline  
#4 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
phatchristy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Controlled chaos...
Posts: 9,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So, if some people have rescues devoted to deaf dogs, why are they automatically euthanized if people can find homes for them? I am just wondering, since I would think there must be some sort of problem with deaf dogs if they are automatically euthanized by some.

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

phatchristy is offline  
#5 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 01:26 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, deaf dogs can be kind of dangerous if they aren't cared for and trained properly. They are very easy to scare/sneak up on, and can be violent b/c of it. Or at least that is the rationale I've heard.
Scribe is offline  
#6 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
phatchristy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Controlled chaos...
Posts: 9,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can relate to some of what you said, because having my deaf kitty I actually used a few specific signs to get him to do things. I didn't intentionally teach him "sign language" but it just sort of happened . I had a sign for him to leave/move (which I used when he jumped on things) and another sign to call him. Of course, the limitation being that he had to see me to respond. But, honestly, he seemed to compensate in other ways for his deafness.

One vet once told me..."make sure he never gets outside" (duh, wouldn't be allowed outside anyhow) and I am sure that would be something for a deaf dog...the risk of getting hit by a car would be pretty elevated.

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

phatchristy is offline  
#7 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 02:15 PM
 
J-Max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: surrounded by cows and kids
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
We had a Saint that was mostly deaf by age 4. I think his was mostly related to major ear problem/infections, but he did just fine. IF he was asleep, we would stomp on the ground near him to wake him up, becasue he would startle and snap if touched when he was asleep (but he never bit anyone).

My MIL has a 9 year mini daschund that suddenly went blind last year (she got an infection in the optic nerve). She is doing very well. She does get flustered when the girls are running and yelling, and occasional runs into things if somthing is moved, but does very well.

belly.gifSAHM, carseat geek, cattle raising woman to 5 girls (15, 10, 8, 6, 2) wild.gifand a stork-suprise.gif due in July!
J-Max is offline  
#8 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 02:45 PM
 
mrsalf97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is really sad. Makes me wish I could start a rescue.
mrsalf97 is offline  
#9 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 02:59 PM
 
ColoradoMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: mooning TAO
Posts: 9,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yea, it's common with Dalmatians. My friend's folks used to breed Dalmatians, but they never euthanized the deaf ones. They did have them fixed so they couldn't be bred though.
ColoradoMama is offline  
#10 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 03:54 PM
 
thekimballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's extremely common across all breeds where deafness is an issue, and it's not awful. Deaf dogs have a much lower successful placement rate, and they need special care their entire lives. Many of the causes of deafness are not confined to the ears; the dog will frequently have major eye problems as well, and are more prone to epilepsy. They are not what the reputable breeder is supposed to be producing, which is a healthy and happy family pet that acts and learns the way the breed should.

If I personally produced a deaf puppy, if it was ONLY deaf and had no eye issues I would not have a problem placing it (for free) in a pet home if one was begging for him. But MANY of my friends in various breeds disagree. They see too many failed placements, too many dogs left neglected and forever confused in a world that doesn't make sense to them, to risk a placement. So they will humanely euthanize.
thekimballs is offline  
#11 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 04:26 PM
 
Girl In The Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canarble Wagon
Posts: 1,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Culling is part of breeding and if someone cant cull, as in euthanize a dog they bred, IMO they shouldnt be breeding. There are lots of reasons to cull, poor temperment, weakness, blindness, deafness, deformity etc. It is not like people beat down breeders doors for a dog that is deaf, ill tempered, deformed, blind etc. People complain there is "pet overpopulation" but when breeders are responsible and cull, alot of these same people (no one in general) rant and rave about how horrible it is to cull, you cant have it both ways.
Girl In The Fire is offline  
#12 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:08 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, you can have it both ways--don't breed.
Scribe is offline  
#13 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:12 PM
 
jkpmomtoboys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBTLuv View Post
Culling is part of breeding and if someone cant cull, as in euthanize a dog they bred, IMO they shouldnt be breeding. There are lots of reasons to cull, poor temperment, weakness, blindness, deafness, deformity etc. It is not like people beat down breeders doors for a dog that is deaf, ill tempered, deformed, blind etc. People complain there is "pet overpopulation" but when breeders are responsible and cull, alot of these same people (no one in general) rant and rave about how horrible it is to cull, you cant have it both ways.
Seriously? Poor temperment causes breeders to kill their puppies?!? I find many of those reasons shocking and sad. It feels oxymoronic to say that one loves dogs so much that one breeds them yet finds the puppies so disposible so one can kill them for these reasons...

Jen, former attorney and now SAHM to 11 yo ds and 8 yo ds

jkpmomtoboys is offline  
#14 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:14 PM
 
Girl In The Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canarble Wagon
Posts: 1,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok so you dont breed and in 15 years or so there will be no dogs : I suppose if you are AR that is great, and if so then this board really is not for you since it is called "PETS", as in companion animals, that a good percentage of the population like to keep around.
Girl In The Fire is offline  
#15 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:16 PM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBTLuv View Post
Culling is part of breeding and if someone cant cull, as in euthanize a dog they bred, IMO they shouldnt be breeding. There are lots of reasons to cull, poor temperment, weakness, blindness, deafness, deformity etc. It is not like people beat down breeders doors for a dog that is deaf, ill tempered, deformed, blind etc. People complain there is "pet overpopulation" but when breeders are responsible and cull, alot of these same people (no one in general) rant and rave about how horrible it is to cull, you cant have it both ways.
oh my!

Well, I sat here trying to think of what I wanted to reply to this charming response... but I'm coming up totally speechless. just YUCK
edamommy is offline  
#16 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:17 PM
 
thekimballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Poor temperament is the MOST IMPORTANT reason to consider culling. APBTLuv isn't talking about a dog who doesn't like thunderstorms; she's talking about dogs that show ingrained human aggression. What on earth should we do with those dogs (thankfully, not a problem in corgis, but it was certainly something that happened in Danes and it absolutely happens in the breeds that APBTLuv deals with)? Dogs that are demonstrably dangerous and unpredictable with humans and who are large enough to do real damage should go to heaven. Leaving them on this earth requires management (total isolation, caging, etc.) that are miserable for any dog.

And AO, this is an issue that many rescues must deal with as well. It's a lot more likely that a random-bred or poorly bred dog would be sold without BAER testing, and would end up at a shelter. Does the shelter adopt it out, knowing that the placement will be many times more likely to fail?
thekimballs is offline  
#17 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:18 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I disagree with you, so this board is not for me? That seems harsh.
Scribe is offline  
#18 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:19 PM
 
becoming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,592
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh my gosh, how horrible! My parents have a deaf dachshund that is the best dog EVER, and my childhood sister-dog (a toy poodle) was deaf for the last 4 years of her life and still had a really good quality of life.
becoming is offline  
#19 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:19 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not sure I understand your question, Johanna. But regarding adopting out deaf dogs, I think the responsible thing to do would be to only adopt them to people who are able/prepared to deal with a the special needs of a deaf dog.
Scribe is offline  
#20 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:21 PM
 
DevaMajka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 10,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is slightly ot, but I tend to agree with thekimballs that death is not the worst thing that could happen to a dog. Living a life of suffering or neglect is, imo, far worse. This is something I'm thinking a lot about at this point.

Of course, the ideal would be for the deaf dogs to go to happy homes that would treat them right.

On a related note- there was a deaf dog on petfinder recently, and he was gone QUICK! (they said in his profile: think of the benefits- no dogs barking when the mailman comes) lol.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

DevaMajka is offline  
#21 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:26 PM
 
Girl In The Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canarble Wagon
Posts: 1,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Seriously? Poor temperament causes breeders to kill their puppies?!? I find many of those reasons shocking and sad. It feels oxymoronic to say that one loves dogs so much that one breeds them yet finds the puppies so disposible so one can kill them for these reasons...
Yes seriously, for good breeders atleast... Say you have a puppy that is extremley shy and fearful, not just apprehensive sometimes, but runs and hides from new people or urinates everywhere when you try to handle it or it is confronted by new situations. You the responsible breeder do not want it becuase it is obviously not wired right mentally, and you do not want to place it in a home where it may or may no be raised right, and may or may not turn into a fear biter, and may or may not be bred accidently, so what other alternative is left? Sure you can neuter it before leaving your home to prevent it being bred, and of course you can screen people, but no one wants a dog like that and dogs like that should not be out in the public putting other people at risk. Rescues euthanize dogs for poor temperament all the time, it is not just breeders. In an 8 week old puppy you can get a pretty darn good idea of its inherent temperament, in some cases you can change it slightly through socialization and training but a shy fearful dog wont magically turn into a stable, normal adult. Culling is not a concept the casual dog owner really understands or can comprehend in a non emotional manner.
Girl In The Fire is offline  
#22 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:28 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBTLuv View Post
Culling is not a concept the casual dog owner really understands or can comprehend in a non emotional manner.
That's rich. Anybody who disagrees with you just isn't serious like you are can't be rational, right? That's ridiculous.
Scribe is offline  
#23 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:40 PM
 
thekimballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Edamommy, APBTLuv is right about how important culling really is. It tends to make people get all up in arms and mad that we as breeders or rescuers do it, but the fact is that those same people are not willing to take our responsibility. Would you like me to call you if I have a puppy born without an anal sphincter? I can fix it surgically, but the dog will leak poop constantly through its entire life. Are you willing to diaper, daily wash, and constantly groom a dog like that for the next 14 years? How about if I have a puppy born with megaesophagus--will you tube feed it from birth, then put a g-button in and liquid-feed it for the rest of its life until it inevitably dies young from aspiration pneumonia?

QUALITY of life is what is important, not quantity. It is not a tragedy to gently put to sleep a puppy who has known nothing but comfort, warmth, a fully belly, and love. Putting that dog through a life it can NEVER understand; that's unacceptable to me.
thekimballs is offline  
#24 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:40 PM
 
Girl In The Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canarble Wagon
Posts: 1,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
That's rich. Anybody who disagrees with you just isn't serious like you are can't be rational, right? That's ridiculous.
So what should be done with dogs that are seriously deformed, chronicly ill, or have dangerous temperments? Made to live lives of pain, warehoused at a "rescue" or shelter becuase no one wants them, or locked away in a cage for their entire lives so they do not hurt someone? Sometimes there are fates far worse than death.
Girl In The Fire is offline  
#25 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:46 PM
 
DoctorGirlfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by avengingophelia View Post
That's rich. Anybody who disagrees with you just isn't serious like you are can't be rational, right? That's ridiculous.
Come on. That's not what she said.

DS born 4 May 2013.
DoctorGirlfriend is offline  
#26 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 05:46 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't disagree that there are fates worse than death, or that dogs with very serious medical issues that can't be adequately treated, or real adult aggression, should be put down. But putting down for deafness, or similar problems that can be dealt with, doesn't seem right to me.
Scribe is offline  
#27 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 06:02 PM
 
thekimballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's important to understand congenital deafness in dogs: It has to do with a lack of pigment cells in the developing embryo, which also make the structure of the inner ear and eye and brain. Any congenitally deaf dog has a much higher chance of also having eye problems (many won't show up for years) and epilepsy. It's not just deafness.
thekimballs is offline  
#28 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 06:05 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I understand that, but I still don't think deafness is a good enough reason to euthanize.
Scribe is offline  
#29 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 06:09 PM
 
thekimballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry, or who or what WOULD be? If I send you off with a puppy, I don't care if I'm a breeder or a shelter, I'm obligated to that dog to make as sure as possible that the placement will be successful. Unless you are an elite prospect, an already-deaf dog with a high chance of eventual blindness and a reasonable chance of eventual epilepsy is NOT going out this door.
thekimballs is offline  
#30 of 131 Old 03-14-2007, 06:16 PM
 
Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Probably at the thrift store
Posts: 3,806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, you're not gonna love this at all, but my thought is that if you intentionally breed a dog, then you should bear responsibility for the pups, regardless of how they come out. And that means either finding a proper home for a disabled puppy or taking care of him/her yourself.
Scribe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off