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How much barking is too much? *update*

3K views 43 replies 21 participants last post by  FoxintheSnow 
#1 ·
We got a letter from Animal Control in the mail yesterday... It seems one of our neighbors complained that our dogs bark "All day and nite, they never stop".

I did a search of the forum and read 6 pages of threads on barking!


Our dogs are inside, crated, at night. They do bark during the day, but they are in and out and if I am home when the barking happens they are corrected and brought in. We are home more often than not. We have 3 dogs. I am going to leave them inside when we leave now, I guess.

One of my dogs (A Border Collie/Corgi X) has a shrill, loud bark and she joyfully barks when they are playing or when my male barks. When I am kicking the soccer ball for one of them, she will bark the whole time. I am teaching her to stay on the outside pillow while we play, and she is catching on fast, but that means she gets no excercise that way... She has social issues, she is super shy and somewhat skiddish... She responds to my correction noise instantly, and she is a pleaser.

I was thinking that she might respond well to a citronella collar. If not, I am not sure what to do.

I feel bad that a neighbor is being disturbed, thought I wish they had talked to me about it. I feel bad for my dog. Everytime they make any noise I will cringe and wonder if they are going to call again.
 
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#3 ·
Wow, this is a touchy subject. I'm actually on the other side of it right now. I just moved into a new home at the beginning of February and my next door neighbor has 4 dogs and 2 cats. The cats are constantly on my car, which isn't *that* big of a deal because I just have an old Civic. But if I had a nicer car, I could conceivably have a problem with it. One of their 4 dogs is a chronic barker. I haven't been able to tell if they are always out when it happens, but I don't think so. Seriously, the dog will get started barking and won't stop for HOURS. This is at all different times of day/night. Last night, I went to bed at 11pm and the dog was barking. I'm not weird about this... I don't expect dogs to be totally silent. I have two dogs myself, so I know they occasionally bark for various reasons. But when a dog is barking for over an hour, that is extreme. The funny thing is, I moved to this neighborhood from the city historic district for some country peace and quiet!


You say that you wish your neighbor had just come and talked to you... I'm struggling with this right now. It's just so awkward. I mean, am I just supposed to go up and knock on their door and tell them my issue? I'm horrible at confrontation, so this seems near impossible to me. These people have never even introduced themselves to us. We haven't contacted any authority yet either, because since we just moved into the neighborhood, I know they'll know it's us. I just wish people were more considerate.

Anyway, sorry to hijack... this is just something that is concerning me right now, especially since I'm 8 months pregnant and sleep is hard enough as it is.
 
#4 ·
Check your local laws. In my county any dog that barks consistently for 15 min straight, or off and on for a half hour (i would guess they mean 5 min of barking, 1 silent, 5 min of barking, etc) is considered a noise nuisance and can be called in to animal control.

You may be surprised by how much your dogs are barking when you're gone. Can you pretend to leave and then hang out to see if they really start going when you're gone?

~Julia
 
#5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by jlutgendorf View Post
Check your local laws. In my county any dog that barks consistently for 15 min straight, or off and on for a half hour (i would guess they mean 5 min of barking, 1 silent, 5 min of barking, etc) is considered a noise nuisance and can be called in to animal control.
Wow. That seems really ridiculous to me.
 
#6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by avengingophelia View Post
Wow. That seems really ridiculous to me.

Why? We've had lots of neighbor dogs over the years who were allowed to bark constantly. One was outside my son's (at the time, a baby) bedroom window. Now, how could I get him to nap with that dog out there barking barking barking? There was one across the back who went nuts everytime we went out into our own yard! (And lots of other times, too; we couldn't sleep with our windows open, and still that dog woke us several times every night. It barked everytime anybody walked down the street, or it heard another dog bark, or for no reason at all.) It basically ruined our summer last year, since we have a huge covered porch and a yard that we take great pride in, and spend most of our time from April to October out there. We couldn't, with that dog going all the time. Thankfully that dog is gone, and a big fence sort of took care of the problem of the other dog. He would actually see us through the windows and bark at us when we were indoors! Now at least he can't see us, so that cut it down some.

I guess you can tell where I stand on this issue!
If it happens again, we're going to get one of these. I have no idea how effective they are, but I figure it's worth a try. I'll try one if any of my own dogs ever developed a habit of barking when outside, too.
 
#8 ·
The letter defined excessive barking as: Loud or disturbing noises without provocation, including, but not limited to, cronic howling, yowling, barking, whining or other utterances."

I want to be a good neighbor. If someone had talked to me, I could have asked if there were specific times that were the most troublesome, if it was happening when we were not home, etc. They are not outside between 9pm and 7:30 or 8 am, unless they need a fast potty break. I am home much of the time, but there are days that we run errands or go on field trips. The only time she would bark for 15 minutes would be if we were out back playing with them...
 
#9 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by uptownzoo View Post
If it happens again, we're going to get one of these. I have no idea how effective they are, but I figure it's worth a try. I'll try one if any of my own dogs ever developed a habit of barking when outside, too.
Wow, if this thing actually works, I'd pay 4 times that!!! And I totally understand where you are coming from. It gets hard when you feel like you can't enjoy yourself or relax. My husband and I are meditators and we'll get all comfy on our pillows and ready to be tranquil and "ARF,pause, ARF, pause..."
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by avengingophelia View Post
I realize a constantly barking dog can be annoying, but 15 minutes? That's not constant. And dogs barking are one of many many sounds in a neighborhood. Are there any city ordinances about how long a child can scream?
Well, I figure that's just to give the investigators a guideline, since they can only spend so much time at any given house.

I agree; I'd definitely want to be told. When I've had problems with dogs in the past, the first thing I've always done is approach the owners. I've always gotten an angry response, but it's probably best to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they might not know what's going on.

I think that was a good idea, to pretend to leave and hang out where the dogs can't see or smell you, but you can still hear them. Might give you more information.

Quote:
Wow, if this thing actually works, I'd pay 4 times that!!! And I totally understand where you are coming from. It gets hard when you feel like you can't enjoy yourself or relax. My husband and I are meditators and we'll get all comfy on our pillows and ready to be tranquil and "ARF,pause, ARF, pause..."
I read what you wrote as "My husband and I are mediators...", which made me remember this: I used to do volunteer mediation for the city of Albuquerque, and hands down, without question, by a factor of at least 50, the most common issue bringing people to mediation was barking dogs. Of course, the divorce mediators were busier, but not by a lot!

And I totally agree; if that thing works, I'd happily buy out their stock! From the reviews of those devices, though, it sounds as if they work for some dogs and not others, typically better for smaller dogs than bigger ones. That means it would probably work on my dogs (for whom I don't need it) and not on the neighbors' dogs.
:

Now, if I meditated a little more often, on any quiet occasion, the barking would probably bother me a lot less!
 
#11 ·
Umm...I don't mean to get animal rights activists involved here, and please know that I don't mean any harm (see the second-last paragraph for details).

Perhaps look into having the surgery done (starting with the loudest or 'most irritating' dog) where the operating vet removes half their voicebox (or something like that).

I knew people who had a dog that was a showdog; her name was Shadow; and she whisper-barked whenever someone was walking by. They had to pay to have it done; and I'm pretty sure they put the dog right under anesthesia* to do the procedure...so it was like a surgery.

Something to look into and think about. I don't know what your laws are, but if you got an official letter, and you ignore it, could they take your dogs and try and adopt them out or euthenize them if nobody adopts them? Voicebox surgery is a much nicer option.

Oh cool...here's a de-barking article you can relate to (particularily understanding why having three dogs changes your ability to control their barking). I didn't read the whole thing, I was just trying to find something to explain what I was talking about.

* I almost said "puts the dog to sleep" ...then I realized that it meant something completely different when you're talking about a dog.
 
#13 ·
I don't think that's debarking. There would never be that huge or dramatic a scar--MANY show dogs are debarked, and we can't go around with huge scarring all over our dogs. I would bet, considering his other scarring, he got bitten badly on the throat.

Debarking doesn't make the dog confused--they go on barking with no clue that anything has changed. I've been around lots and LOTS of debarked dogs--they sound hoarse or whispery, and they bark happily just the same.

I'm actually a fan of debarking if it lets you keep a dog that would otherwise be given up or make your neighbors enemies. Debarking is a better alternative than a shock collar, and lots of people have said oh my goodness, I never realized how much I screamed at my dog until it was debarked--now I actually enjoy her!

In today's litigious and non-dog-friendly world, there are some breeds that you simply cannot keep in any numbers without debarking. Sheltie breeders probably wake up every morning and thank God for debarking surgery, because otherwise they'd all have to live on a thousand acres in Idaho.

I personally despise barking ordinances--it's what dogs DO, for heaven's sakes. They tick me off because they're so anti-dog. Everybody wants a dog, but it's harder and harder to live in any semblance of a normal way with them. We're all going to end up being forced to move to robot dogs or stuffed animals before too long. But for me, the sound of a barking dog is comforting, or at least not bothersome. I've been trained, though, to jump up and make sure it's not my dog! We don't allow any barking from the house dogs; it's not something I philosophically support, but in order to stay in good relationship with the neighbors and the town, we keep a silent pack.
 
#14 ·
This is definitely a surgical scar--it's too regular and clean to be from a fight. But maybe he had some other throat issue or growth or something and that's what it is from--there's no way to know.

I am in completely agreement w/ your last paragraph, Joanna.

Edited to fix spelling error.
 
#15 ·
I'm sorry for your dog.


Shadow wasn't like that. She didn't seem to mind her bark. I don't know how long ago your dog was de-barked, but maybe the dog gets used to it over time. If you don't understand what happened (and a dog wouldn't understand) then I could see it being rather confusing to be loud and then suddenly nothing. I get anxious when my voice goes away too (when I'm sick) but after a few hours I get used to it....I imagine this might take a few months for a dog; considering once again that they don't understand what happened.

And again, if the law allows them to take her dogs away from her; and if the law allows unadopted dogs to be euthenized (killed); then it's definitely something to consider. There are also people who kill dogs for less (my parents dog was poisoned by a neighbor because he got loose and went and hung out beside their dog pen because their female was in heat). The dog may not understand, but the choice to de-bark could save it's life.

.
 
#17 ·
That letter you got bothers me a lot because you are doing what you should - keeping your dogs in teh house at night. What I hate are the dogs left in the yard, alone, to bark, ALL FREAKING NIGHT! We had that in the cul de sac at our old house. They were behind us, so we never could figure out what house it was, but how the heck do THEY sleep when the dog in in their back yard? We have another behind us that barks all day and occassionally at night.

I think any intermittent barking during daylight hours should be fine. Our old dog would bark when we played with teh hose. Both dogs barked occassionally at neighbor kids, other dogs, etc. DH freaks out at the littlest bark, but as long as it doesnt go on for long (5 mins for us) I jsut let it go. If she doesnt stop, I bring her in.

But we also crate our dogs when we leave the house, so I guess if you dont know if you dog is barking all the time, that could be an issue. But I personally would not stop playing with your dog because she barks. Thats just silly.
 
#18 ·
Hey Joanna, how do you keep a silent pack? I'm getting a pup of a breed known for barking, I'd love to know how you do that trick!


I've called animal control for a barking neighbor dog
:

To explain: I was pregnant with my first, nearly due, with complications. I wrote letters to the family who tied their dog up to a bush on my property, under my bedroom window! Our house was like 10 feet away from theirs. They had a Spanish Water Dog and an Australian Shepherd. OMG. I never felt such malice toward dogs in all my life. It made me feel so guilty!

They unleashed the dog from my bush, only to tie both of them up, together, tied to each other! on their front porch. Mind you, they have a back yard. Anyway, I waded through their feces-littered front yard and porch to place a formal letter begging them to take the dogs for a walk and keep them inside or tied in the backyard since my bedroom window was 10 feet from their front porch. No better than tying them to my bush, really. Needless to say, they didn't comply. I called animal control, who came out and told them it was against the law to have barking dogs within city limits, and they also told them not to tie them up together, it was inhumane.

I have to say, I can see your perspective as well as your neighbors. But, they really should have talked to you first! How rude, to go straight to the authorities! I must say, though, that depending on their situation, constant barking (which means different things to different people) can be traumatizing. Some people have variable sleep cycles, like I did at the time, and the lack of sleep and constant yipping created a terrible strain on me at the end of my pregnancy. It was awful, and whenever I recall late pregnancy I think about those barking dogs. Try to be understanding. I would open a line of communication with your neighbors, and make every attempt to be calm despite your justified feelings. Tell them you're working on keeping the barking under control, and ask them to help by writing down exactly what time the dog barks, how it sounds, and how long it lasts. Then you can determine if it's b.s. or which dog is doing it, and maybe why. Then again, you may learn nothing from it, but your neighbors will feel vindicated and that may even be enough to get them to drop it.

I'm having some guilt about calling on the neighbors now, since I'm about to be a dog owner. But I've waited this long to get another dog because I knew I couldn't give it the right amount of attention before now. I'm home basically all the time, and homes in our new neighborhood are further apart.
Good luck!
~alison
 
#20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by APBTLuv View Post
When you have a baby that is woken up all the time by your neighbors obnoxious barking dogs or you work 3rd shift and need to sleep during the day it wouldn't seem so ridiculous.... Not every one likes to listen to dogs bark and howl all day long.
Sure. But not everyone gets what they want when they live among other people. For example, I'd prefer my neighbors never cut their grass with their loud, gas guzzling, nasty fumes producing lawn mowers. I'd prefer the dude who lives behind me not listen to loud country music when he's outside working on his car on lovely afternoons. But nobody cares what I'd like in that case, nor should they. How is dog barking, if it is done during "normal" hours, different?
 
#21 ·
I have neighbors with four barky dogs that do bark all day long. In fact I am pretty sure that when they start barking inside at the door their owners let them out to run up to the fence and bark---very annoying. My dog barks some as well but I am very very conscious of it and if it lasted for than a few minutes she is brought inside--and stops. Most of the time its an occasional bark bark bark, pause, bark bark bark and then nothing for a 10-20 minute period. She is only out when I am home ( not that she is out the entire time I am home) so I can completely control it.
 
#22 ·
That ultrasonic dog barking unit thingy doesn't really work as far as I've noticed. One of my neighbors has one.. and he doesn't even *have* a dog but got it because he's so annoyed by all the neighbors' dogs. It's certainly not quiet to the human ear.. it's this annoying squealing noise that seems to do nothing to deter my Dane and Corgi from barking.. I never let them bark more than five minutes.. I usually correct them as soon as I hear them start... I think the squealing from that machine is worse than the barking!
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by avengingophelia View Post
Sure. But not everyone gets what they want when they live among other people. For example, I'd prefer my neighbors never cut their grass with their loud, gas guzzling, nasty fumes producing lawn mowers. I'd prefer the dude who lives behind me not listen to loud country music when he's outside working on his car on lovely afternoons. But nobody cares what I'd like in that case, nor should they. How is dog barking, if it is done during "normal" hours, different?
I've really been trying to stay out of this conversation, but I had to respond to this.

Here, it is illegal to contribute to a situation that detracts from a person's ability to use/enjoy his/her own property. Someone mowing their lawn once a week for 30 minutes may have that effect for that 30 minutes, but it's not constant. A barking dog can and often is a CONSTANT nuisance.

I am not anti-dog. I am anti-irresponsible pet owners. We have some very responsible dog owners on our block, and i never hear a peep out of any of them (at least not for a long enough period to care).

But, we have neighbors who for whatever reason bought a dog. An untrained poodle (mix?). They refused to train it, claiming it was "cruel" to train an animal. The dog would bark, bark, bark for hours, day and night, inside or out. Every time I walked out my back door it would stand on their porch and bark at me. My back stairs end 2 feet from the property line (the houses are only 3 feet apart, we're in the city). With me at the bottom of the steps, the dog would be about on eye level with me. We tried making friends with it, we tried bribing it. We tried complaining to the neighbors, we tried sonic deterrents (which they called the cops about because it was keeping their baby up). Nothing worked. They would lock it in the basement when they weren't home, and it would stand in the window of the basement (next to our house) and bark the entire time he was down there. I listened to that dog for 4 years before I finally found a solution. A squirt of water from the hose when I was watering my garden would get me 5-10 minutes of peace, before it would start up again. In 4 years that was the only time I was able to be in my backyard without being barked at. Then the owner got pissed because I sprayed her dog. She called the cops on me. The cop told her to suck it up because the entire time he was there the stupid dog was barking and they made no effort to quiet him. The cop told them that if he were their neighbor he'd be ticked, too, and that it was their responsibility to train their dog not to bark. She got PO'd at him, but he told her she needed to train her dog. Then he knocked on our door and apologized for disturbing us, because he totally understood our frustration. He asked why we had never reported it before (because here it gets reported to the police). Within days the dog was gone, and we have enjoyed peace for the last (almost) year.

To the OP, I totally agree that your neighbors should have said something to you before reporting you. But I also agree with other posters who say that they have run into hostility when confronting neighbors. At this point, even if you have to ask all your neighbors, I would recommend doing so politely, and ask them to please let you know in the future if there is a problem, so that you can attempt to fix it to everyone's satisfaction. Show them that you're willing to acknowledge the "problem" and attempt to fix it, and they're liable to be receptive.
 
#24 ·
From what the letter states, if there is another complaint they will ask the complaintant if they want to pursue mediation, and, if so, will ask us to join. If we refuse mediation, there could be another warning, then a citation if the problem continues. From waht a friend told me, they would have an officer come out and park near my house and listen for 30 minutes.

I am thinking we will try to talk to the neighbors that we see. It's either that or write a letter. There are two houses with yards that abut our property... The only other people I think might have called have a grudge because they think we called the cops on them when they did donuts in the court at 10pm.
 
#25 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by avengingophelia View Post
Sure. But not everyone gets what they want when they live among other people. For example, I'd prefer my neighbors never cut their grass with their loud, gas guzzling, nasty fumes producing lawn mowers. I'd prefer the dude who lives behind me not listen to loud country music when he's outside working on his car on lovely afternoons. But nobody cares what I'd like in that case, nor should they. How is dog barking, if it is done during "normal" hours, different?

Oh please
How can you even compare mowing a lawn and listening to some music once in a while to a dog that barks incessantly all day long.
 
#26 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sagewinna View Post
The only other people I think might have called have a grudge because they think we called the cops on them when they did donuts in the court at 10pm.


Typical. You've identified your secret admirer!

In my city, most people don't make a second or third complaint because it means they have to show up at mediation, thereby revealing themselves. You can bet that since they didn't bother to talk to you first, they don't want you to know who they are. I wouldn't worry about a repeat if your city is like mine and they'll be required to attend.

I think it's great that the city requires them to show up for mediation, because it keeps people (some people, anyway) from repeatedly making false claims... or slightly exaggerated claims.
 
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