Cats - indoor or outdoor? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums
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Pets > Cats - indoor or outdoor?
frog's Avatar frog 02:41 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayleeZoo View Post
There you go, wrapping yourself up in your shroud of self-righteousness
It's the willy-nilly use of italics. I'll try to keep that to a minimum.

ETA: We have seven cats, which I've mentioned. Mason and Kissa are from a sanctuary run by a childhood friend of mine who's the animal control officer in her county. Sevyn is a polydactyl mutt cat someone gave to turtle when he was a kitten. Tamarind and Lychee were born on turtle's sister's land--we placed a littermate with a colleague of mine and took T & L home with us. Their littermate who stayed at her sister's house (where all cats are strictly outdoors) didn't live to see her first birthday. And our latest two, Lorenzo and Sam, are shelter cats my cousin adopted. When she died (just a few weeks ago), we took them home with us when her sibs' response was that they should just go back to the pound.

zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:00 PM 04-18-2008
For those of you suggesting that you shouldn't own a cat if you can't keep it indoors...or only outside on a leash, cos that's what's best......

would you also suggest to someone that if they couldn't/didn't want to breastfeed then they just shouldn't have a baby? Breast is best, right?!?!?
PatchyMama's Avatar PatchyMama 03:06 PM 04-18-2008
I'd say that if you are going to let your child come over to my house and poop in my lawn, then ya... maybe a child is not the right choice for you
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:07 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyMama View Post
I'd say that if you are going to let your child come over to my house and poop in my lawn, then ya... maybe a child is not the right choice for you

way to avoid the actual question
chirp's Avatar chirp 03:07 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBTlover View Post
Ok, I have a question (that I haven't seen answered, but maybe I missed it):

Why is everyone so uptight about cat poop in particular? My cat (who usually poos outdoors) nearly always does it in the same place, out of the way, but totally aside from him: animals run around. You know, wild ones. I'm CERTAIN I have bird (both large and small, and wow, I just can't wait until blackberry season... ), squirrel, deer, raccoon, and opossum poo on the ground out there somewhere. At the very, very least.
exactly what i was thining. (but damn there's a lot of posts I'm trying to get through)
LittleRockstar's Avatar LittleRockstar 03:08 PM 04-18-2008
I'm too sick and emotional to properly respond, but here goes anyway...

My neighborhood is down one more cat. That makes two that my dog has killed in his own properly fenced back yard. We've had four cats (three from the same house) hanging out in my yard, on my porch... for months. I scan the back yard before I let the dog out, but DH didn't think about it when he let the dog out this morning. It was over before DH got his mouth open to yell. I put the poor thing in a box and waddled to the neighbor's house weeping the whole way, where I got screamed at for being an irresponsible pet owner.

I love animals. This morning broke my heart again. But I must admit a small part of me was relieved to have one less "minor nuisance" destroying my property.

Allowing animals to be a "minor nuisances" by allowing them to invade the neighbors property and ruin the front porch and the furniture on it with cat pee is not ok. If my dog destroyed someone's porch and furniture there would be hell to pay, I'm sure. Why shouldn't cat owners have to be just as responsible?

I keep my dog properly fenced, leashed, or inside with me for his own safety and because it's the law. If he were to poop on someone else's property (He doesn't) I would be responsible for cleaning it up. Why should it be different for cat owners?

I guess one thing is the same for both cats and dogs - If you let them out to roam free, you get what you get. Poor animals.
thismama's Avatar thismama 03:08 PM 04-18-2008
People are getting sarcastic and insulting and this is just going around in circles. I'm out... off to sit on the porch with my cats and my unleashed, unmuzzled pit bull.
chirp's Avatar chirp 03:12 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post

deadhead...please please please for the love of whatever deity you may or may not believe in...address my issue of the environmental impact that humans create vs. cats, on bird populations. do you provide a "bird sanctuary" (obviously within reason) in your backyard. Do you plant food bushes, cut down tree stumps (living spaces), or even trees? Do you live in relatively modern housing?

i just want to hear your opinion on this because that seems to be your major concern...yet you have refused to answer anyone else's (okay, so I'm just worried about MINE) counter to your argument. You just keep popping in and saying the same thing. Which, there is nothing wrong with a consistent argument...but i really feel humans have a greater impact on bird populations than cats. Especially if you take into consideration that its humans who brought cats here in the first place, along with all other kinds of species (plant and animal) that are messing up the ecosystem.

PLEASE! what say you?!?
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:13 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
People are getting sarcastic and insulting and this is just going around in circles. I'm out... off to sit on the porch with my cats and my unleashed, unmuzzled pit bull.
I hope you don't think I was being sarcastic mama!!

I mean really, if the things we do are tagged as irresposible because they aren't the best or perfect......well, there's a lot of "mommy cards", and hell even "human cards" I'm going to have to turn in.

I think I'm out too!
thismama's Avatar thismama 03:14 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by zo's ma View Post
I hope you don't think I was being sarcastic mama!!

I mean really, if the things we do are tagged as irresposible because they aren't the best or perfect......well, there's a lot of "mommy cards", and hell even "human cards" I'm going to have to turn in.

I think I'm out too!
Nope not you! I agree with you.
chirp's Avatar chirp 03:15 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
I dunno. I might have you beat.



Hey, now. I'm a cat obsessor and I don't have Himalayans or a giant house. I have 4 kids, 4 cats, a big dog and a husband (who is probably the worst culprit) ina less than 700 sq. ft apartment.

But I am all for stopping overpopulation and abandonment. I used to live by a state park near a University and come end of the school year, probably dozens if not hundreds of pets were dumped there "they're animals! They know how to survive!" Because they couldn't take them home to mommy and daddy's. That pisses me off something awful. And most shelters here won't let you adopt unless you meet very specific criteria. My sdad who makes tons of $$ has a huge house, is responsible and loves pets couldn't adopt b/c one of his cats got out and a dog bit it's tail. Well, they look up your vet records and said he was irresponsible b/c of it. Then another one of his cats got out and got hit by a car. Thousands of dollars later with a severe back injury, he is lucky to be alive and none of his cats are allowed out again!



: It's carnivore poo that you should worry about with gardening. And obviously, the less kitty poo I can scoop out of my garden beds the better. Can't really stop the mice and birds. But I can do something about the cats!

see and this is where i say you are mistaken...cats are animals...
you know in the last place i lived in the neighbor had a garden and ozzy poo'd in it from time to time...you know what my deal was with her...every morning (when ozzy and i go for our walks) i would check her garden for pee and get it out of there as necessary.

once again, the importance of presenting your problem to your neighbor and not just freaking out at an animal who doesn't know any better, or a neighbor who doesn't know what is going.
frog's Avatar frog 03:18 PM 04-18-2008
LittleRockstar, I'm so sorry.
heartmama's Avatar heartmama 03:32 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
For those of you suggesting that you shouldn't own a cat if you can't keep it indoors...or only outside on a leash, cos that's what's best......

would you also suggest to someone that if they couldn't/didn't want to breastfeed then they just shouldn't have a baby? Breast is best, right?!?!?
I would compare apples to apples. Pets to pets. Even the leap from "pet animal" to "livestock animal" can be problematic. I have found that when people compare animals to children the topic tends to become fragmented and there isn't much practical insight into the actual issue being discussed.
chirp's Avatar chirp 03:34 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRockstar View Post
I'm too sick and emotional to properly respond, but here goes anyway...

...

I guess one thing is the same for both cats and dogs - If you let them out to roam free, you get what you get. Poor animals.
and i agree with that statement completely. oh. except for the poor animals part.
animals take those kinds of chances. if they go into the backyard of a big menacing dog...they CAN SMELL the big menacing dog...then they should know what they are getting into.

and i still let my cat out.
Mosaic's Avatar Mosaic 03:37 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
deadhead...please please please for the love of whatever deity you may or may not believe in...address my issue of the environmental impact that humans create vs. cats, on bird populations.

*snip*

...but i really feel humans have a greater impact on bird populations than cats. Especially if you take into consideration that its humans who brought cats here in the first place, along with all other kinds of species (plant and animal) that are messing up the ecosystem.

PLEASE! what say you?!?
Yes, humans suck. Obviously then, since we do so many things wrong, we shouldn't try to do anything right? One of the impacts humans have on bird populations is releasing their cats. So here you can reduce both your impact AND your cat's impact at once, and it's a heck of a lot easier than building a backyard bird sanctuary! (though off-topic, how cool would that be to have a gorgeous bird sanctuary out my back window?!)

ETA: I would also appreciate it if others would stop harping on the "OMGWTFBBQ CAT POOP!" argument and address very valid concerns people have about the health and safety of these well-loved family pets or the importance of choosing a pet who suits your family/lifestyle in a way so that everyone is healthy and happy.
frog's Avatar frog 03:40 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by heather8 View Post
(though off-topic, how cool would that be to have a gorgeous bird sanctuary out my back window?!)
We don't have a sanctuary (and didn't at our old house, either), but we do make the choice to leave "weeds" that the birds bring in (they ate it once, they'll eat it again) and landscape with native plants and flowers (particularly those that offer food and shelter) whenever possible. If I had my way, we'd have no lawn at all in favor of native plantings, but my neighborhood would have a collective hissy fit.

If you landscape with native plantings and offer nesting places, nesting material and fresh (preferably running) water, birds will come to your yard.

Keep the cats out of it, though.
kittywitty's Avatar kittywitty 03:44 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by zo's ma View Post
For those of you suggesting that you shouldn't own a cat if you can't keep it indoors...or only outside on a leash, cos that's what's best......

would you also suggest to someone that if they couldn't/didn't want to breastfeed then they just shouldn't have a baby? Breast is best, right?!?!?
You're comparing apples to oranges.
Mosaic's Avatar Mosaic 03:46 PM 04-18-2008
Ooh, I've already designed my "non-lawn" for my someday ecohouse. But yeah, my neighbors would have a fit if we did anything like that here... I already weighed in on the nosey neighbors thread.
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:46 PM 04-18-2008
No I'm not.

I'm talking about the idea of doing what's best and that if you can't do what's best then you you reconsider doing it at all.

Does the what's best argument only apply to indoor/outdoor cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
You're comparing apples to oranges.

kittywitty's Avatar kittywitty 03:47 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
deadhead...please please please for the love of whatever deity you may or may not believe in...address my issue of the environmental impact that humans create vs. cats, on bird populations. do you provide a "bird sanctuary" (obviously within reason) in your backyard. Do you plant food bushes, cut down tree stumps (living spaces), or even trees? Do you live in relatively modern housing?

i just want to hear your opinion on this because that seems to be your major concern...yet you have refused to answer anyone else's (okay, so I'm just worried about MINE) counter to your argument. You just keep popping in and saying the same thing. Which, there is nothing wrong with a consistent argument...but i really feel humans have a greater impact on bird populations than cats. Especially if you take into consideration that its humans who brought cats here in the first place, along with all other kinds of species (plant and animal) that are messing up the ecosystem.

PLEASE! what say you?!?
I would have to assume that most of us here on MDC are environmentally conscious enough to try to limit as much of our footprint on the ecosystem as possible. Sure humans have a horrible impact on the environment if you live like most Americans. But would that mean that we should do nothing about another, different source or ecosystem disaster? For one, we brought cats here to do this damage. Shouldn't it be our responsibility to minimize it?

Your argument just doesn't work on here. Noone on MDC that I can name says to keep your cats indoors but cut down as many trees as you can and go bird hunting for sport.
kittywitty's Avatar kittywitty 03:49 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirp View Post
see and this is where i say you are mistaken...cats are animals...
You didn't think I know that? I have four of them. But I must say, they are more refined than I.

zo's ma, I never said you shouldn't have pets at all. But I still find both irresponsible.
PatchyMama's Avatar PatchyMama 03:54 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
way to avoid the actual question
I didn't avoid the question at all. Your comparison MAY have been valid if people were saying "Don't have a cat unless you are only going to feed it the best cat food or only raw food." But since that isn't what is being debated I think your analogy is flawed. I answered it in a manner to try to use the framework of your analogy but applied it to what I personally saw the issue to be.

I don't however care what you feed your cat or your kid
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:56 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post

zo's ma, I never said you shouldn't have pets at all. But I still find both irresponsible.

And you don't know me from Adam, so you make a jusdgement based on what....YOUR experience.

And people on this thread have said that if you have a cat that can't tolerate being indoors only then you shouldn't have adopted it and should take it back.

I didn't adopt my cat she adopted me.

Like I said before, the judgement on this thread is sickening and if it were any other subject on MDC, bfing, circ, etc.....and the opposing side was called irresponsible or had some of the things said to them w/ the attitudes in this thread it'd been shut down in a second.
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 03:59 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyMama View Post
I didn't avoid the question at all. Your comparison MAY have been valid if people were saying "Don't have a cat unless you are only going to feed it the best cat food or only raw food." But since that isn't what is being debated I think your analogy is flawed. I answered it in a manner to try to use the framework of your analogy but applied it to what I personally saw the issue to be.

I don't however care what you feed your cat or your kid

Then maybe you shouldn't have answered at all.

What is being debated has been run into the ground. I was curious if everything in your (general) lives was so cut and dried. If, in ANY imperfect situation you (again, general) had the same line of thinking.

We're all just doing the best we can, judgemnet sucks.
PatchyMama's Avatar PatchyMama 04:01 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
And people on this thread have said that if you have a cat that can't tolerate being indoors only then you shouldn't have adopted it and should take it back.
I would have to go back and look, but I think only 1, maybe 2 people have actually said this.

I personally don't care if your cat goes outside or not. Outdoor cat does not automatically equal free roaming to other people's property. If it was important for your cat to be outside, then I would highly suggest a fence or some other structure so that you can control whether or not said cat leaves your yard or at the very least to make sure they don't destroy other people's things.

I have no issue with people who are supervising their cats outside or taking measures to keep them secure.
kittywitty's Avatar kittywitty 04:02 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by zo's ma View Post
And you don't know me from Adam, so you make a jusdgement based on what....YOUR experience.

And people on this thread have said that if you have a cat that can't tolerate being indoors only then you shouldn't have adopted it and should take it back.

I didn't adopt my cat she adopted me.

Like I said before, the judgement on this thread is sickening and if it were any other subject on MDC, bfing, circ, etc.....and the opposing side was called irresponsible or had some of the things said to them w/ the attitudes in this thread it'd been shut down in a second.
Like I said, you were attacking the wrong person. *I* never made those comments. Please take personal attacks to pms. And yes, I find letting your cat roam on other peoples' properties irresponsible in terms of ecological damage and just property respect.

And that does happen all the time on MDC. Most here would agree that circing is wrong and formula should be a last resort.

I don't see why this has turned nasty at all.
kittywitty's Avatar kittywitty 04:03 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyMama View Post
I would have to go back and look, but I think only 1, maybe 2 people have actually said this.

I personally don't care if your cat goes outside or not. Outdoor cat does not automatically equal free roaming to other people's property. If it was important for your cat to be outside, then I would highly suggest a fence or some other structure so that you can control whether or not said cat leaves your yard or at the very least to make sure they don't destroy other people's things.

I have no issue with people who are supervising their cats outside or taking measures to keep them secure.
Exactly! Many people have recommended cat fences. They are really pretty ingenius.
PatchyMama's Avatar PatchyMama 04:04 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
We're all just doing the best we can, judgemnet sucks.
Sometimes doing the best we can is not enough when it comes to something that is your responsibility destroying or defacing other people's property.

I'm sorry that you don't see it this way. I wouldn't allow my kids to go to another person's yard, dig up their flowers or run through their garden anymore than I would allow my cats to.
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 04:05 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
Like I said, you were attacking the wrong person. *I* never made those comments. Please take personal attacks to pms.

And that does happen all the time on MDC. Most here would agree that circing is wrong and formula should be a last resort.

I don't see why this has turned nasty at all.
I have not made any personal attacks and therefore would have no reason to take anything to pm. Why would you say such a thing and then say that you don't see how this thread has turned nasty???????????? Wrongful accusations are indeed nasty.
zo's ma's Avatar zo's ma 04:07 PM 04-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
Exactly! Many people have recommended cat fences. They are really pretty ingenius.

ANd they do not work for everyone in every situation.
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