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#31 of 39 Old 05-08-2008, 12:15 AM
 
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#32 of 39 Old 05-08-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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Nadia reminds me a lot of my Ripley when she was a pup.

Aside from the BSL thing (because only you know the specifics there and the likelihood that you will be making that move), I wouldn't hesitate to encourage you to adopt this pup. She's still quite young, and in all likelihood would never have issues with your corgi. It's not a guarantee, but even pits with dog-aggressive tendencies will often remain civil to a dog they "grew up" with. Also, some aggressive pits will completely ignore smaller dogs... almost as if they don't "count."

I certainly wouldn't worry about the safety of your children any more than I would worry about their safety with any other breed.

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#33 of 39 Old 05-09-2008, 12:29 PM
 
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I am anything but an expert on this topic, but I have two very conflicting experiences that I will share. When I was five years old a pit bull "attacked" me and bit my face. I needed 117 stitches to repair the damage, several teeth were ripped out, and my jaw was pushed seriously out of alignment. The dog had never bitten anyone before. Now, as a more reasonable adult, I can say that my behavior towards the dog was probably seen by the dog as aggressive. This was a neighbor's dog. Our family dog had dealt with small children for more than 10 years and tolerated little kids getting in his face and being pushy. The pit bull was not so flexible. This established more than a little hesitation in me towards pit bulls.

As an adult I have two friends who own pit bulls. One friend constantly works with and socializes his dog. This pit is incredibly friendly and docile with humans, but he requires constant supervision to maintain this state. My other friend was super good about socializing/working with her dog for years but then slacked for a little while because she got really sick. Now her dog is behaving in more dominant ways with other dogs and occasionally being pushy with humans.

I believe at this point that pits are not evil dogs. But I think they require a lifetime of care and attention that is much higher than many other breeds. I would hesitate to bring a pit into a household with young children, not because pits are evil--but because young children are going to push the boundaries of a dog. So if you want a pit, it would be best to wait until you don't have little kids (I don't know if you do or not) and be prepared for how much effort it is going to take. It wouldn't be fair to the animal to take it in and then not give it all the attention it needs.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#34 of 39 Old 05-09-2008, 01:44 PM
 
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I don't have time to post tons (and you've already got a lot of good info already, anyway) but I have 3 rescued pit bulls. I 1) agree with everything that Joanna (TheKimballs) said and 2) will say that it all boils down to one equation, no matter the breed: the right dog + the right family = well, the right dog . You've got a lot of info on the breed. If it works for you and your family, it can be a very rewarding experience!

I also believe 110% in socialization, but I think it is irresponsible to take a pit bull (or most dogs, for that matter) to a dog park. We took our dogs repeatedly through a local dog obedience class. They were pros at the commands, but the structured (i.e., on a leash) socialization was what made us go back over and over again!

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#35 of 39 Old 05-09-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post
I am anything but an expert on this topic, but I have two very conflicting experiences that I will share. When I was five years old a pit bull "attacked" me and bit my face. I needed 117 stitches to repair the damage, several teeth were ripped out, and my jaw was pushed seriously out of alignment. The dog had never bitten anyone before. Now, as a more reasonable adult, I can say that my behavior towards the dog was probably seen by the dog as aggressive. This was a neighbor's dog. Our family dog had dealt with small children for more than 10 years and tolerated little kids getting in his face and being pushy. The pit bull was not so flexible. This established more than a little hesitation in me towards pit bulls.

As an adult I have two friends who own pit bulls. One friend constantly works with and socializes his dog. This pit is incredibly friendly and docile with humans, but he requires constant supervision to maintain this state. My other friend was super good about socializing/working with her dog for years but then slacked for a little while because she got really sick. Now her dog is behaving in more dominant ways with other dogs and occasionally being pushy with humans.

I believe at this point that pits are not evil dogs. But I think they require a lifetime of care and attention that is much higher than many other breeds. I would hesitate to bring a pit into a household with young children, not because pits are evil--but because young children are going to push the boundaries of a dog. So if you want a pit, it would be best to wait until you don't have little kids (I don't know if you do or not) and be prepared for how much effort it is going to take. It wouldn't be fair to the animal to take it in and then not give it all the attention it needs.
I wanted to comment on the temperament issues above, because I think that a lot of people perceive the pit breeds (of which there are many) as being Ok with people if you're really careful with them.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Any former fighting breed should be notably MORE tolerant of people, children, and physical pain/insult than the average sporting or hound or whatever breed. The proper temperament of a pit breed would allow a child to dance on its head, and the dog should just gently wag throughout.

The issue comes when people take the other cardinal aspect of the fighting dog, its "gameness" (where it will receive and accept incredible personal hardship and pain in the pursuit of its goal), and try to breed it to be aggressive to people. This IS an issue with some poorly bred or maliciously bred pit breed dogs, and it's why you always go into an adoption or potential purchase with your eyes wide open.

The proper way to own a pit is to realize that it can kill other dogs, and may in fact be quite eager to do so. Ditto for other small animals. But a Pit must NEVER be human-aggressive; I would argue that the first sign of real intolerance sends the dog to heaven. Because of the strength and gameness of the breed(s), you cannot fool around with that.
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#36 of 39 Old 05-09-2008, 03:29 PM
 
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I wanted to comment on the temperament issues above, because I think that a lot of people perceive the pit breeds (of which there are many) as being Ok with people if you're really careful with them.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Any former fighting breed should be notably MORE tolerant of people, children, and physical pain/insult than the average sporting or hound or whatever breed. The proper temperament of a pit breed would allow a child to dance on its head, and the dog should just gently wag throughout.

I try very hard to avoid this but it happens in my house with some regularity The most the dog does is try to lick the baby away.
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#37 of 39 Old 05-09-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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Please, please, please do not worry about bred-in aggression. It is just another pit myth. If a pit is rasied in a bad environment then yes, it can grow to be agressive but that is simply environment. A pit is just as likely to have naturally agressive tendencies as ANY OTHER BREED! Here is the problem (and I believe the only problem) with pits. They are very strong dogs with a powerful jaw and instinct to use their lock jaw in conflict if rising to physical level. When and if they do become aggressive or find themselves in a fight with another dog they often times get the bad rap because they are so strong and can so easily cause serious injury. SO be aware that in case of flighting you are dealing with a very powerful dog. This is why you see them in the news so much for attack against humans. When they do bite they have the ability to cause injury, unlike breeds that actually bite more often (small breeds... not that they are bad or more aggressive). No one wants to watch two chihuahuas fight in a back yard brawl and that is why you don't see them in the news for fighting rings. Pits just have the disfortune of being a solid, very intelligent, and loyal dog. They will fight to survive and do as their horrible owners force them in those aweful cases.

For all of those reasons pits who have not yet been introduced into a bad environment need loving homes. People need to stand up for the breed and highlight the fact that in the scheme of things, a very low number of family rasied (in a loving home) pits are reported to attack people or other dogs.

But again, be aware that they aren't a chihauhau... if they bite, they have a lot of massive muscles behind those jaws. Like aggitating a 6ft tall body builder as opposed to a wheelchair bound little person. You have to hope the body builder had a good upbringing and can keep their cool when under attack or pressure.

Make sure it's the right pit for your household and go for it! If for what ever reason you don't think that pit is right (just as you would with any other dog) keep searching. I steer people toward pits simply because there are so many due to cheap pure bred pricing from over breeding and breeding by the wrong kinds of people. Be very careful if adopting an adult pit (or any adult dog) as you don't know what their home environment has been like. No different than people and what people you would accept into your home. Introduce them to other people, dogs, and environments early on and continue to socialize them. Helps keep nervousness and fear out fo their world.

Good luck and good on ya for turning to the pit popualtion for a pet!

~TRACY, wife to loving dh, mommy to dd (10/05), ds(12/08), 3 kitties, & 2 pups.
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#38 of 39 Old 05-12-2008, 04:53 PM
 
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Please, please, please do not worry about bred-in aggression. It is just another pit myth. If a pit is rasied in a bad environment then yes, it can grow to be agressive but that is simply environment. A pit is just as likely to have naturally agressive tendencies as ANY OTHER BREED! Here is the problem (and I believe the only problem) with pits. They are very strong dogs with a powerful jaw and instinct to use their lock jaw in conflict if rising to physical level. When and if they do become aggressive or find themselves in a fight with another dog they often times get the bad rap because they are so strong and can so easily cause serious injury. SO be aware that in case of flighting you are dealing with a very powerful dog. This is why you see them in the news so much for attack against humans. When they do bite they have the ability to cause injury, unlike breeds that actually bite more often (small breeds... not that they are bad or more aggressive). No one wants to watch two chihuahuas fight in a back yard brawl and that is why you don't see them in the news for fighting rings. Pits just have the disfortune of being a solid, very intelligent, and loyal dog. They will fight to survive and do as their horrible owners force them in those aweful cases.

For all of those reasons pits who have not yet been introduced into a bad environment need loving homes. People need to stand up for the breed and highlight the fact that in the scheme of things, a very low number of family rasied (in a loving home) pits are reported to attack people or other dogs.

But again, be aware that they aren't a chihauhau... if they bite, they have a lot of massive muscles behind those jaws. Like aggitating a 6ft tall body builder as opposed to a wheelchair bound little person. You have to hope the body builder had a good upbringing and can keep their cool when under attack or pressure.

Make sure it's the right pit for your household and go for it! If for what ever reason you don't think that pit is right (just as you would with any other dog) keep searching. I steer people toward pits simply because there are so many due to cheap pure bred pricing from over breeding and breeding by the wrong kinds of people. Be very careful if adopting an adult pit (or any adult dog) as you don't know what their home environment has been like. No different than people and what people you would accept into your home. Introduce them to other people, dogs, and environments early on and continue to socialize them. Helps keep nervousness and fear out fo their world.

Good luck and good on ya for turning to the pit popualtion for a pet!
While I agree with a lot in your post and you are obviously another pit lover ( yay!) I will respectfully disagree with a few of your points. Namely that agression in pits isn't bred in or that they don't have any more tendency to be agressive than any other breed. It is a natural trait of the breed to be dog/dog agressive (not dog/human agressive, big difference). In fact, I would always count on it--even if a dog has never been dog/dog agressive, I would never trust it not to one day decide to be so. While I believe that the right kind of socialization and training can help, it is not environment that causes/prevents it. I have 3 pit bulls, all raised in a loving, disciplined home environment and socialized. I have not had any problems with them together (though they only run freely together supervised, just in case), but I cannot trust any of them with other dogs. Period. My male would attack any and every strange dog if allowed to. No amount of socialization would change that. Nothing in his environment caused it, I've had him since he was 6 weeks old. It's just his temperament--it is what he was bred for.

Also, a pit bull's jaw does not "lock." I suppose the misconception came from the fact that, well, in a fighting situation most of them just don't give up.

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#39 of 39 Old 05-12-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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I say that if you are ready to do the necessary things to ensure your pit has a happy, healthy life, including keeping her separate from your other dog if need be, then go for it. My favorite patient that comes into the clinic is a pit bull. He is the most loving, tolerant dog you will ever meet. He lets us do anything to him and just licks our faces. I truly love the breed but since I dont have room to keep one separate from my other dogs if necessary I dont have one. Good luck and keep us updated on your progress adopting her if you choose to do that.

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