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#181 of 531 Old 06-02-2008, 12:52 PM
 
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Are their eyes/ears open yet? I would love to see new pics (hint hint! )
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#182 of 531 Old 06-02-2008, 01:01 PM
 
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Maeve, I do the same thing!

Your pup is going to be Wrinkles? We're naming ours Finnegan (he will be Finn for short).

Yep, we're adopting Wrinkles, though we'll probably be renaming him. We were thinging of Nova (for Casanova since he's such a little heartbreaker) or maybe Poe (our youngest dd is Anabel Leigh).
I'm sure it will change a dozen times though.
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#183 of 531 Old 06-02-2008, 03:17 PM
 
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We're taking the one MCat calls D2, but he is Brown Boy #1 in the post 94 pics.

I want him to come home tomoooorrrooowww... it is going to be such a long wait!
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#184 of 531 Old 06-02-2008, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I should have updated on the puppy stats I got to thinking about flying them and the details and forgot :

All but 1 has both eyes open and their ears are all open as well. The problems that they were having with irritation cleared up with some warm water and paper towls once they came all the way open. Their eyes look perfect now

I havnt been down since Sat. things have been a bit hectic. I will be going down tomarrow and will take some pics for you all. With any luck I can get them to wake up and show you their pretty blue eyes :

Jill stays out running around now now for 30min to a hour and then goes back for a 30 min feed. The temps are to hot for her to stay in with them constantly and she also has to get her lizzard hunting in : They are still growing like weeds and all but 1 was over 1pd monday and I bet he is over that easy now.



Did anyone happen to see my question about keeping ticks and fleas under control?

 
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#185 of 531 Old 06-03-2008, 11:08 PM
 
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I have no idea about the ticks/fleas, sorry! I'm definitely interested in the answers, though!

Dds 1 and 2 have both really amped up their requests for a dog in the past few weeks. It is KILLING me keeping this secret!

This morning dd#1 was like, "what kind of dog should we get..." Then she suggested both a JRT and a doxie... I was biting.my.tongue.so.hard.
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#186 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 06:46 AM
 
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When I was 6, and had been begging for a dog forever to the point that I had given up hope, one day my dad left in the evening. There was some hushed sort of conversation before, and I was worried about my dad's mysterious disappearance. My mom was evasive and wouldn't give me a straight answer about where he was "oh he just had to take care of some business". I didn't believe her, and was pretty sure that something bad was happening.

He came home with a dog

It was the greatest thing ever. I highly recommend keeping it as a surprise.
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#187 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mommyswenn View Post
I have no idea about the ticks/fleas, sorry! I'm definitely interested in the answers, though!

Dds 1 and 2 have both really amped up their requests for a dog in the past few weeks. It is KILLING me keeping this secret!

This morning dd#1 was like, "what kind of dog should we get..." Then she suggested both a JRT and a doxie... I was biting.my.tongue.so.hard.
Kids are so intuitive

Dd has been asking for a little dog.

Not sure about the fleas and ticks. TTO repels lots of critters. As far as I know we don't have ticks in this area.

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#188 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am going to be posting some pictures later this evening. I would do it now but I have to make a run to the pet store and sell some fish so I can buy the rest food

Yesterday they were starting that wobbly puppy play with some growling and barking : it was soooooo cute. They are walking a bit now as well.

 
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#189 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here are the promised pictures:


Wrinkles

Pinky

HighBall (formerly known as Nubbin)

D2

Group shots

Gizmo, Blaze and KnotHead

I can get Wrinkles to bark at me if I click my tounge at them.

 
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#190 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am still shaking :

I got down here today at around 6pm and the puppies were all sleeping peacfully but Jill was no were to be found which is unusual. I got to questioning mom and she said the last she saw her was around noon today.

I got on brothers 4-wheeler amd went looking for her. I came back and brother wanted me to go ask at the house were the xwife was staying if they had saw her. The owner said no she hadnt but if she did she would let me know. I told her that she had the pups that were still tiny and needed their mama. Came back here and started crying off and on because I just knew the puppies would end up with no mama. :

About 20 min. ago the woman I spoke with came and said she had found her and had her in the car. :

I do not have proof but I am betting money that she had her put up down at her house were I couldnt see or hear her She is absolutly ate up with fleas right now and she was not when she left so it must have been a dog bed. Like they use to take coon hounds out hunting.

She said that she found her running through the field between here and there and picked her up but then she contradicted herself and said she talked to the woman and she wants the dog back after she has weaned the puppies.

She said she wouldnt take her away from the puppies since that would hurt her and the puppies both. But I cant help but think if I hadnt asked what would have happened I figure they must have thought someone saw them take her or something. Who knows what goes through peoples heads that are willing to take a mama away from her babies.

Said they had been looking for her but if they had they would have found her since she has been in the yard here since March. :

At any rate once the puppies are weaned we told her that she could definatly have her back. There is no way to recoup our money on the vet trips and care and food etc. In the interest of keeping the peace that is how it is sucks but what can you do.

I was worried she would get missing out running around but brother was afraid he he put her up it would cause trouble. Dad said if we had the extra money we would have her fixed before giving her back because she will have puppies the rest of her life but we just cant swing it

She was so full of milk that she was hard she went directly to her puppies and nursed. She is still nervous and acts off poor thing she had to have been very distraut to be forcibly held away from her babies.

I told her that the puppies were barly 2 weeks old so that she could stay with them a bit longer than 6 weeks. I am thinking they will be well on their way to weaning. I can stretch it out the extra 2 weeks to 8 weeks if I have to after all they have no idea when they were born.

Uggh I can guarentee you they are not getting the pups I will take them home with me before I allow that to happen. :

So that is what happened today and if anyone who wanted a puppy is not comfortable with taking one now please let me know and I will understand 100% All I can guarentee is I will do everything in my power to make sure that you get your puppy.

 
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#191 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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Awww! they are so cute I want to just gobble them up :
I think Pinky is the cutest

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#192 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 10:44 PM
 
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She CANNOT go back to that person. CANNOT. Can you just tell her that the dog ran away or was hit by a car?
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#193 of 531 Old 06-04-2008, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well I could tell her that but then I would have to take her to my house because if she stayed here they would see her and then the chit would hit the fan

Were my parents live there is no were at all to put her without them or someone being able to see her and go and tell her. Everyone is kin to everyone here on this rural road and it would be impossible to keep her hid.

I just dont know what to do I dont want her to go back to them I know what her life will be like. :

 
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#194 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 12:53 AM
 
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OMG that horrible woman. :

And poor Jill! She must have been frantic, away from her pups like that...

Is there any way you can take her to live at your house? I would totally ask dh if we could take her too, but there is no way...

How much does spaying cost?
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#195 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 01:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The last time I called it was around $75.00.

I wouldnt mind having her honestly but my dad and brother are the ones who have bonded with her the closest. My dad isnt the type to take to animals but he is really fond of Jill. Seems like every time he does become attached something like this happens

If I took her he wouldnt get to see her much since they dont visit anyone.

It is just 1 big mess. They have known she was with us for months but not a single word other than when the guys mom stopped and asked about her. He dosnt want her but apparently she does

I keep wondering if she wants Jill can she legally take the puppies to? I am not sure if we have a leg to stand on really I have the receipts for the vet visits and can prove I took her for treatment but I dont know how much that really means.

I know for a fact dad will not request any money and he wont fight them on giving her back. Since after all we know she was theirs. My thoughts are so jumbled right now I just keep going around and around in my head.

 
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#196 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 02:51 AM
 
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Keep us updated. If anything looks like an emergency, like they are talking about taking her when the puppies are 5-6 weeks and you can't put them off, we'll figure out a way to disappear her. I am so completely serious; I'll figure it out.
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#197 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the support. You all are the only ones besides my brother who understands. I was telling dh about what happened hoping for a bit of sympathy from him and what I got was "Well you know legally you dont have a leg to stand on" : :

Why couldnt he have just said everything will be ok?? Not my loving dh though *sigh*

I am praying that it all works out and she wont come demanding the puppies and Jill. If I am there it wont happen but if I am not there I just dont know

 
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#198 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 08:34 AM
 
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I must have posted the same time as you last night. What a major bummer. Spaying is only $75? I guess it must be regional. Its a couple hundred here. I can send money to help cover spaying costs.

Legally I think you do have a leg to stand on. They can't 'give' you the dog and then take it back. Vet bills are proof of ownership in the horse world where not everyone has a bill of sale.

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#199 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There is also a police report on file that my dad made when he put her up when she came into season so that if anyone was looking for her and asked them (we dont have a animal control office) they could tell them were she was.

They never put up flyers, a newspaper add (both are free by the way) or asked around about her. But yet they talk about how they just love the little thing to death and have been searching everywere for her.

If they had asked for her dad would have gave her back. The only thing we didnt do that we could have was took her to them. But since they had drove by many times and saw her in the yard and never made any effort to get her we figured they didnt want her. Both her and him were living within 1/4 mile of the house during all this and the only road in and out is right by my parents house.

I know had she been mine I would have been knocking doors and putting up adds. I guess my definition of "loving something to death" is a lot different than theirs. I dont abandon things I love for one.

I havnt been able to sleep worrying about what is going to happen. It wouldnt surprise me any if they called the police and started a big thing over it.

No wonder no one wants to do anything for anyone else any more. As the saying goes No good deed goes unpunished

 
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#200 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 10:07 AM
 
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Good lord. I can't believe some people. Have they no sense of responsibility??

I think you do have a legal leg to stand on--maybe not in giving the dog back, but getting your money back. You do (or can obtain) records of all of those vet bills, correct?? Well then the deal is if they want the dog back, they better come up with the $$. You could file in small claims court over that. Now you said money was tight, so the legal fees involved in actually doing that might not be possible for your family. But the threat of it might be enough, if that's the deal--that they need to reimburse you for all of those fees--I bet they'd let the dog stay. :

How in the hell do they think that in any way shape or form it is just fine to let your family shell out all of that money (not to mention the time and emotional investment) and expect the dog back without offering to pay for it?

Of course, I can't even wrap my brain around how obviously irresponsible they were with the dog in the first place.

I know JRTs live to run and hunt, but if I were you I'd make sure that Jill isn't off-leash anytime soon.

OT, Joanna--that article you link to in your sig is awesome (about killing shelter dogs). Is there anyway I can get permission to spread that all over in the course of my internet travels?

One little guy born 6/17/07 : :
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#201 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 11:06 AM
 
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We will send money to help cover the cost of spaying as well.

MCat, I have been posting about our puppy on another board I go to (of course I have, I've been spreading the word all over! )

Anyways... it's a really, really small board, and I would trust these women with my children w/o a second's hesitation... one of them lives in TN, another is moving there very shortly... If you want, I can ask if either of them would be able to take Jill and the puppies into hiding, if need be (and man, I sure hope it isn't )

We'll figure it out somehow.
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#202 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 11:53 AM
 
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Good lord. I can't believe some people. Have they no sense of responsibility??

I think you do have a legal leg to stand on--maybe not in giving the dog back, but getting your money back. You do (or can obtain) records of all of those vet bills, correct?? Well then the deal is if they want the dog back, they better come up with the $$. You could file in small claims court over that. Now you said money was tight, so the legal fees involved in actually doing that might not be possible for your family. But the threat of it might be enough, if that's the deal--that they need to reimburse you for all of those fees--I bet they'd let the dog stay. :

How in the hell do they think that in any way shape or form it is just fine to let your family shell out all of that money (not to mention the time and emotional investment) and expect the dog back without offering to pay for it?

Of course, I can't even wrap my brain around how obviously irresponsible they were with the dog in the first place.

I know JRTs live to run and hunt, but if I were you I'd make sure that Jill isn't off-leash anytime soon.

OT, Joanna--that article you link to in your sig is awesome (about killing shelter dogs). Is there anyway I can get permission to spread that all over in the course of my internet travels?


OMG, what horrible people!!! I agree w/Crunchie, give them all the bills and say fine, then they legally owe you this much money. I bet they won't want Jill back so badly.
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#203 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 10:44 PM
 
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I think that legally, you are on firm ground. These people abandoned a dog, which you took in. The dog wasn't even pregnant when they abandoned her, so they have no claim to the pups. You have documented proof of attempts to facilitate the owners reclaiming her. They did not attempt to do so.

That's how I think it would go. If they bothered to take it to court.

Since you were considering adopting a puppy, could you take Jill too (or instead)? I understand that your dad is bonded with her, but he isn't going to have her no matter what. Either the evil ex owner will have her, or someone who will treat her well, right?

I would give serious consideration to disappearing these dogs at this time. Someone was holding her, she is obviously lactating and I'm sure that she was trying pretty hard to get out of wherever she was being held. I wouldn't put it past someone like that, to come and steal either her, or her and the puppies one night.

ETA: Oh, and I so want HighBall!
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#204 of 531 Old 06-05-2008, 11:20 PM
 
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OT, Joanna--that article you link to in your sig is awesome (about killing shelter dogs). Is there anyway I can get permission to spread that all over in the course of my internet travels?
Yes, crosspost at will as long as you duplicate the whole thing (without the last paragraph it sounds like I hate breeders, and I obviously don't) and with my name (Joanna Kimball) attached. As long as you do those two things, I give free crossposting permission.

In terms of the legal issues surrounding Jill, there's absolutely no question. I actually had a very similar issue and consulted a property lawyer several years ago. He said that ownership demands actions that come in the course of ownership. In other words, if there is no effort to reclaim the dog, no attempt to feed, no objection to other people making decisions for the dog, it is no longer their dog. So the prior owners have zero chance in court.

The issue, of course, is that the family that currently has her will not fight this in court. They don't want to make trouble. And the old owners DO want a dog who has made them some money.

So I think the first step is to get Jilly spayed ASAP. Spaying often lowers milk production, so it needs to wait until the puppies are eating solids well, but I would definitely take her in when they are 4-5 weeks old.

I suspect strongly that once they know that Jilly is spayed, they'll lose interest. You've removed the "golden egg" and so she's worthless.

I agree that there may be a need to disappear this dog and litter. If things get critical, by which I mean that she is taken again or the old owners start talking about taking her and the entire litter, we should work on underground railroading them. I am always willing to take them, but I'm thousands of miles away; it would probably be a lot more practical to get them to somebody knowledgeable who is closer. And it certainly may never come to that. I just want you to know that we will NOT abandon these dogs and there ARE options.
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#205 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OK update time.

Mom called me at 1pm today and said that the puppies were crying and nothing was making them stop not even Jill getting in with them so she would just get out again. It was already 85+ and I was worried not knowing what in the world was going on so I loaded up the kids and headed down here.

When I got here the puppies were screaming and Jill was just laying out not moving on the ground near them. So I got them out of the box and put them with her and she let them nurse for 10min. During that time I was worried because she was just laying there not reacting. I called the vet. explained what was going on and she said to watch her and see.

Dad brought home some chicken so I took that out to her and that perked her up really good I was minutes away from loading her up and taking her to the vet afraid they had poisoned her or something. I was also worried they had given her something to dry her up but the vet said that as far as she knew there wasnt anything that would.

Apparently she spent the majority of the night barking and jumping up and down looking around So the heat+the trauma of yesterday+her up all night=her being extremely tired and frustrated not being able to calm the puppies

Anyway after the good feed they all went to sleep and are nice and round again. I called the vet and got some flea stuff for Jill, frontline, she said it might make the puppies sick if they licked it but it wouldnt kill them. But since Jill dosnt spend much time laying with the puppies there isnt much risk of them getting into it. I think by tomarrow it will be dried up enough to not hurt them if they do.

Because of the horrible load of fleas she brought home yesterday we got her a all new box and bedding and a flea comb and I will be using that on the puppies later tonight. Right now they need sleep from exerting themselves so much today

I have introduced food but only 3 of them are even slightly interested. I also gave 2 of them about 2cc's of water each because they still acted hungry when Jill got up and I couldnt get her to lay back down.

I was worried her milk was drying up but even after the puppies suck and let go looking for a new nipple I can easily squeeze milk out of were they left from so not sure what is up with that??

All of this could have been avoided had they not taken her and kept her away from the puppies 7 hours yesterday : : : It messed up their routine and brought in those fleas (they did have a few but nothing like what Jill brought home)

She has been letting them nurse since that first good feed every hour or so but only for 5 min unless I stay with her and encourage her to stay. With 7 puppies it is a bit hard for some of the to find a good spot in that time frame but I helped them the best I could.

The good news is after the last feed 2 of them were playing a bit then fell asleep shortly after

Everyone of the puppies looks good and when I pulled up the skin it didnt stay up on the neck so they were not dehydrated. Oh and dad set up a house fan that is blowing on the box they are in and I cut small vent holes to allow the air to circulate

Several of them are walking pretty good now and looking less foggy eyed. They are so cut when they bark at this age

Hopefully : from here on out I will only have good updates :

Every one is torn up about what happend and dad is having a really hard time this on top of today being 1yr since he lost his brother in a horrible car accident. : It was crap he didnt need and brother with his bad heart as well.

I think that covers it for now. I am praying constantly that the woman dosnt get it in her head to take the puppies and Jill because I am no willing to let that happen and it will be a real mess if it happens

I have decided that if she does decide to I am going to tell her that she is still under vet care for the rat poison she ate and she has to go to the vet once a week still. I bet that right there will make her change her mind real quick. (I normally wouldnt consider lying like that but I am backed into a corner and I will do what needs to be done to protect Jill and the puppies).

I tried to post this earlier but MDC was down again.

 
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#206 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 09:46 AM
 
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Is it possible she has a touch of mastitis? Poor mama, that must have been awful for her.
I can't get over how ignorant some people can be. Even if she didn't have a nursing litter..why would they sudenly decide to take the dog when its clear she has been acccepted into her new home.

Decluttering 500/2010
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#207 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 11:46 AM
 
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Hi MCcat and all you soon-to-be-puppy caretakers. I have been living vicariously through you guys and this thread. I REALLY want a dog, but my heart dog passed away just a few months ago and I still need some healing time. Oh, and there is the small matter that I am in the middle of a multi-stage relocation and I am currently living in a hotel. Not exactly time to introduce a new dog. But, I just wanted to say that I am very impressed with what you are doing for Jill and her puppies.

My mom lives in Knoxville and I'll be visiting there later in the summer. If there is anything I can do physically, I would be happy to help. Also, if Jill needs spaying I would be willing to contribute to the cost. Or, if she needs "disappearing" and there are financial issues with that, I would also be happy to help a bit. I bet, between all the these people on this board concerned about Jill and the pups, we could get the cost covered. Thank you for what you are doing for these dogs.

Me , 36 year old RN and future AP mom in training . I am wife to one wonderful husband and "mom" to one great rescue pup :.
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#208 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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Sounds like mastitis. You need to carefully check all the teats and draw some milk out of each one; look for light green or grey threading of pus through the milk. Darn those freaking old owners. If she has mastitis, the puppies need to nurse (of course) but she needs antibiotics pretty urgently. In dogs it's not resolved easily without antibiotics and she can abcess through her teats and it's really ugly.

What are you trying the puppies on, food-wise?
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#209 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 09:27 PM
 
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I really really hope all goes well, have you contacted the humane society to see if they can help at all since these folks obviously sound neglectful at best
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#210 of 531 Old 06-06-2008, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I checked every nipple and all I saw was pure white milk. That was even after the puppies had nursed each one. As they let go to search for a new nipple I checked it and there was still white milk coming out. I also felt all over from front to back and the temp was normal no hot spots.

Brother has been giving mama purina puppy chow and that is what I gave the puppies mixed with water to a gruel. A few of them will lick it really well but some are not interested. Is it ok to give a little water?

I dont want anyone to think that I am asking for money I am not. Those of you who would like to help out with Jill's spay I wont say no to if that is what you really want to do. I would love to be able to have her spayed either way it goes.

Even a dollor or two would help. Brother was going to save up and have her fixed but that would take awhile. He is leary about paying for any more vet care for her now since it looks like he wont be able to keep her But if I can get the money together you can bet I will take her to have it done. If you want to help PM me. I will post pictures and the receipt after the spay so that you can see that I did use the money to help with that. If I cant get enough saved up then I will return every penny to those that gave.

I know some are thinking if it is only $70-$80 why cant they just do it since that isnt that much. But for us that is three quarters of our weekly food budget. My dad, brother & us are low income folks there is really no such thing as extra money around here.

This is the most caring and loving community : I cant tell you all how many times I have needed mental support and gotten it here when I asked for it :

UPDATE on the puppies

They are doing great today. There are 2 that seem to be more vocal and they will yip and stay awake for longer time than the rest but they are getting old enough that that is normal I think. Mom says it is my fault for spending to much time with them so they want me there When mom goes out to feed Jill they look at her out of the box and yip wanting to be petted. If I could I would be there constantly actually. They are just to cute not to love on. They are nice and plump and go to sleep after a feed after they play a bit so they are content. Jill seems to like her new ventilated box with the fan blowing on it She is also acting normally again. Which is a big relief.

I gave everyone a good combing with a flea comb and didnt get that many fleas off so that is good that they arnt eat up with them. I also combed Jill out, ick she had so many but a lot were already dead/dying from the frontline.

There are 2 that instigate "fights" Wrinkles & Gizmo. It is so funny to see them grab a ear of a brother or sister and try to shake it and fall over I am going to take my camera that has a video function on it down there and post that but it dosnt have sound.

I would video them but I have no way how to get video from a video camera onto the computer.

I think that covers it

 
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