Trying to figure out what is really needed? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 10 Old 11-12-2008, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
mommaof5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok so I am a new dog owner. I had a dog follow me home, cannot find owner and now we have had this black lab for about 1 month. I of course want to do what is best for the dog but I find that there is lots of information to sift through when it comes to what is best for the dog and what the "vet" says is best. I am figuring out that vets are like doctors, they have their place if my dog is really sick but they have other "interests" that is not always about the best interest of my dog. For instance the vet told me the best food for my dog is Dog Chow. Now I am learning, that's not really what is best for his diet. I also am learning about flea and heart worm treatments and shots. He is neutered and I assume he has had some shots because of that. If this was your dog where would you begin?

How often do you give shots? He is 1-2 years old do I still have to worry about Parvo?
Do you do the flea/heartworm treatments? Fleas make me really nervous, I have heard the giving the dog garlic can prevent fleas.
I have some friends who pick and choose what they do. I am wondering what the mdc moms do or don't do with their dogs.

LDS, natural birthing,, , mom to 6 super fun crazy kids!
mommaof5 is offline  
#2 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 01:16 AM
 
mamallama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: zone 6
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a strong opinion on heartworm preventatives b/c I adopted a hw+ dog. The treatment was horribly expensive ($1000+), difficult (had to do strict crate rest, leash walks only for 8wks,) risky for her, and the whole thing was totally forseeable and preventable. Her heartworm infestation has damaged her heart and very likely shortened her lifespan. The meds are safe and effective.

I also don't fool around with fleas. I haven't had a bad infestation in more than a decade--because I don't fool around. My dogs are on lifecycle interrupters. It works for us.

I vax every 3-4yrs. My vet accepts it.

I feed a super premium (but not grain free) kibble. I know there are better foods, but the one I feed (Royal Canin) agrees with my dogs and fits my time/money budget.

I trim nails monthly (or so) and brush several times a week, but I only bathe when they roll in something nasty--probably 3-4x/year.

homeschool.gif mom to dd (11) read.gifand dd (9) crochetsmilie.gif and ds (3) bikenew.gif and  dog2.gif(x2)
mamallama is offline  
#3 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 01:39 AM
 
Ola_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, we feed raw but I'm sure that you can find dry food you are comfortable with. I agree with you though that Dog Chow is not it.

I also have found that vets tend to push too many meds and vaccines unfortunately - quite similar to a lot of doctors, isn't it? Personally after learning about the heartworm lifecycle, I do not use the heartworm medication and simply test my dogs annually. This is actually what my previous (natural lifestyle friendly) vet recommended and did for his dogs. However, this is something that depends on your location - in some places heartworm is much more prevalent due to the temperatures and climate. Perhaps some other folks can give more input on this (I'm in Canada).

We have only had fleas once when my dog picked them up from a visitor that came for a play date. Said visitor was a dog that lived outdoors and was not very well taken care of. Other than that, my dogs have never gotten fleas, despite living in an apartment building complex for several years (daily contact with many different stores), hikes in the woods, pet store visits, adoption walk-a-thons. Since we haven't had any issues, I don't feel the need to put flea medication on my dogs on a regular basis. I definitely take these types of toxins seriously and I would suggest a "try it and see" approach. If it turns out you need flea products, then you are at least making an informed decision.

Vaccines are a whole topic by themselves. My dogs are 5 and 9.5 years old and are at this point getting a 3 year rabies vaccine only (rabies is the only one required by law). Actually I'm debating whether I should give it to the older guy anymore, I don't think he needs the immune stress and if he doesn't have immunity from the annual shots he got before he came to me, he won't get it now. For the other vaccines I would decide individually - and although many come in a combo, you can split them up and give individually (even spaced out by a couple of weeks) to minimize the impact.

Here are a few links to vaccine protocol recommendations by various researchers and vet organizations so you can make your own decision. BTW, the most I would do is a 3 year vaccine schedule, don't do them annually no matter what.
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODD...-PROTOCOLS.HTM
http://secure.aahanet.org/eweb/dynam...cineGuidelines
http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/cli...ccinproto.html
Ola_ is offline  
#4 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 04:45 AM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I feed raw. I highly recommend this. It is the healthiest diet for dogs, and often the cheapest ... at least when you compare to kibble that I'd actually give my dog. Once you get the hang of it, it's also SUPER easy.

The benefits are HUGE. Your dog will never need a teeth cleaning. His coat will be shiny. His poops compact with zero smell. And nutritionally speaking - he'll be perfect.

I feed 2 cloves of raw garlic per day for flea control.

I give my dog Ivermectin for heart worm protection. I volunteer in a rescue, and it is so sad and traumatic for the dog when we get one that is heart worm positive. I would NEVER take that chance with my dog. I give preventatives. We hike to a lot of places, and sometimes he's off leash. I don't always see what he's sniffing or licking from the ground. So, for his safety, I do a preventative and I urge everyone to do so.

Ivermectin is basically a generic version of heartgard. However, I do NOT recommend it if you do not know your dog's exact weight. You have to know it - on the day you give the medicine, not guess at it. If you measure it out incorrectly, your dog can die. It is easy, and cheaper, but you must never ever make a mistake in measuring it out. The consequences are fatal. And you must know the dog's weight on the day you measure it out. The amount is based on the weight of the dog.

If you're not comfortable with that, get the heartgard from 1-800 Pet meds. It really is less pricey than from the vet.

My dog had all his shots as a pup. Now, we just do the rabies vaccine.

However, I've never kenneled him with other dogs. And he doesn't hang around other dogs ... he's asocial like me, lol. Though, he was VERY well socialized ... obviously, as a pup. But, now, he prefers to stick to me and his own company.

If he were to be kenneled or around other dogs a lot, I'd renew his vaccines on a 3 year basis - as someone mentioned.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
#5 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
mommaof5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just a few questions for Sailor or anyone else.....

"I feed raw. I highly recommend this. It is the healthiest diet for dogs, and often the cheapest ... at least when you compare to kibble that I'd actually give my dog. Once you get the hang of it, it's also SUPER easy. "

Ok so if I do feed raw, how do I get started. What do I buy, how do you do it cheap?

"I feed 2 cloves of raw garlic per day for flea control."

My dog is probably 80 pounds how much garlic would you give him? How does your dog take the garlic will he just eat the cloves whole?

"Ivermectin is basically a generic version of heartgard. However, I do NOT recommend it if you do not know your dog's exact weight. You have to know it - on the day you give the medicine, not guess at it. If you measure it out incorrectly, your dog can die. It is easy, and cheaper, but you must never ever make a mistake in measuring it out. The consequences are fatal. And you must know the dog's weight on the day you measure it out. The amount is based on the weight of the dog."

I have a friend with a vet scale so it would not make me nervous to do this I just wonder where do I buy it and does it explain the dose? How often do you give this to your dog?

"My dog had all his shots as a pup. Now, we just do the rabies vaccine"

I am assuming he has had all of his shots because he is neutered. Is this wrong to assume? Would you do all of the shots now or would you assume he has all his shots and only do rabbies vaccine in a year and half?

"If he were to be kenneled or around other dogs a lot, I'd renew his vaccines on a 3 year basis - as someone mentioned."

What is considered a lot? My dog only comes in contact with other dogs when I take him for walks. I have two friends with dogs and he sees them sometimes. I would like to take him to a dog park to run occasionally.

I know some of you are wondering why I would even be a dog owner because I know so little. I am willing to learn. I have read tons online I just find it is hard to sift through all of the opinions. I find on mdc we are like minded so I tend to lean toward looking for answers here! Thanks a bunch!

LDS, natural birthing,, , mom to 6 super fun crazy kids!
mommaof5 is offline  
#6 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Ola_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When we adopted Chaos from the pound, the vet insisted that she get all of her vaccines before she could get spayed (before I knew better). I'm guessing most vets are the same, so I agree that he probably got "the works" if he was neutered.
Ola_ is offline  
#7 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 05:26 PM
 
k9rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Looking for a few good goats...
Posts: 1,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not a fan of overvaccination, but I would think that you will need to give rabies in order to license him. As far as the rest go, you could ask your vet to draw labs to test his titers (level of immunity) to the other viruses. If your vet can't/won't do that, then perhaps just getting a SINGLE parvo and a SINGLE distemper would be a good idea. Even then, I would advise you to split the vaccines up by at least 3-4 weeks.

For feeding raw, there is a lot of good info in here if you do a search. Otherwise check out the rawfeeding yahoo group for further info. I've been feeding raw for about 1 1/2 years and it's quite simple. I get all of my food from the regular grocery store. One thing that has helped us to save money is to get a chest freezer. That way I can buy meat when it's on sale and store it.

As far as what I would consider "a lot" of contact with other dogs, it would be things like frequent boarding, trips to the groomer, trips to dog parks, competing in dog sports (agility, obedience, rally o, conformation, hunt tests, etc.), or doggie daycare users.
k9rider is offline  
#8 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 06:26 PM
 
SevenVeils's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lurking in my Lerkim
Posts: 6,864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
I give my dog Ivermectin for heart worm protection. I volunteer in a rescue, and it is so sad and traumatic for the dog when we get one that is heart worm positive. I would NEVER take that chance with my dog. I give preventatives. We hike to a lot of places, and sometimes he's off leash. I don't always see what he's sniffing or licking from the ground. So, for his safety, I do a preventative and I urge everyone to do so.
I just want to point out that heartworm does not come from hiking, sniffing, licking or eating things. It is carried by mosquitoes.

I think that it is very important for people to know this, so that someone with a dog who is never off leash or what have you, won't think that they don't need heartworm preventative.
SevenVeils is offline  
#9 of 10 Old 11-13-2008, 07:22 PM
 
Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenVeils View Post
I just want to point out that heartworm does not come from hiking, sniffing, licking or eating things. It is carried by mosquitoes.

I think that it is very important for people to know this, so that someone with a dog who is never off leash or what have you, won't think that they don't need heartworm preventative.
Sorry, yes, I know. I was thinking faster than I was typing. I meant to write heartworms/other parasites.

I was thinking more of my dog ingesting contaminated feces with parasites.

I don't know why, as he's nutritionally balanced and not lacking in anything, but if I'm not around to say "leave it" or "drop it" ... he eats it. It's embarrassing really. He's well trained, but when I'm not around and he's walking with my partner, Roark thinks he's alpha. It's my partner's fault as he can't assert himself. But, that's my deep secret - I've never been able to train my dog out of sniffing, licking, or eating feces.

Otherwise, we do go camping a lot. And my mom is in the south where the mosquitoes are plentiful and as big as humming birds. No joke! lol

OP - my dog weighs 95 pounds, and gets 2 raw cloves of garlic a day. I didn't base this on anything scientific. I happen to use a lot of garlic in my cooking, so I just set aside two for him. He'll eat anything - including raw whole cloves, so I've never had an issue in feeding this to him. Some dogs won't enjoy it and you'll have to mince and mix up with food.

We haven't had any issues with fleas. Ironically, the one time we did have a huge infestation was when I was using commercial flea preventatives.

However, to be fair, this was also because I went to a friend's house and didn't realize they were living with LOTS of fleas. I don't know how someone could live like that. I don't think garlic would have stood up to this either!

You can buy Ivermectin online. My vet orders it for me. Yes, the directions are included. As well as precise steps as to how much your dog needs. It's in liquid form, and I use a syringe (no needle!) to measure it out. And then I just squeeze it down Roark's throat. It was difficult the first few times, but I made it into a training session, and he always gets his kong afterwards.

Some people have told me you need a prescription for Ivermectin, but I think that's true only if you're buying huge quantities. I'm not really sure on this as my vet gets it for me through her office.

Raw - google BARF. There is TONS of information out there online. As well as in books. And the yahoo group is very informative. It may seem a little overwhelming at first, but it becomes easy. I second the chest freezer. My partner eats meat (I don't), and we haven't even noticed a difference in our grocery budget. This could be because we order the meat from a farm and my partner just shares his order with my dog, lol.

Testing for titers is a good idea, and will tell you where you're at. I, too, don't like to over vaccinate and think the "standard guidelines" are way too much and way too often for dogs.

I wouldn't assume on the neutering. But, my situation is different. I got my dog from a breeder. He had his shots, but was not neutered. And has been neutered only recently.

First special delivery - April 2010 :
Sailor is offline  
#10 of 10 Old 11-14-2008, 07:43 AM
 
oneKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All the vets I called "required" all vax before an alteration, and rescues/humane societies will also vax and alter animals that come through them, so I'd assume a neutered adult dog has had all of the routine vaxes. Most dogs have Parvo immunity, whether vaxed or not so I wouldn't bother to re-vax for it.

I do not vax my dog, at all, but I don't register her with the city and I use a vet outside my city limits. If you end up having to register the dog or take it somewhere, you'll probably be required to at least have proof of a rabies vax within the year. Most municipalities (and vets) haven't updated to the 3-year plan yet.

My grandpa's dogs used to gobble up their heartworm pills, I play hide the pill with Velveeta. Heartworm comes from the skeeters, so it's pretty important to prevent and/or test for it in the south.

You might want to get the vet to run a stool sample for intestinal worms.

I use Advantage for fleas, it's better to get the plain kind NOT the K9-Advantix. Sometimes it's hard to get though, my dog vet only carries the Advantix. I get the plain Advantage kind from my cat-only vet. I've had pretty poor results using Frontline.

I feed Raw Meaty Bone/prey-model raw. I pay less to feed my dog meat than most people pay to feed kibble. We just make sure to get some beef liver and edible boned meat at the grocery store, nothing too fancy or expensive. It's easy, the dog has white teeth, very little doggy smell/BO, and tiny, not-too-stinky poops that break down quickly. A grain-free kibble is ideal if you can't do raw. Many dogs are allergic to corn, soy and wheat.

Raw feeding myths

Dogster Raw Feeding Forum

You would probably also be interested in learing about some training and pack leadership:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/leadership.html
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogrules.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/groundwork.htm
oneKnight is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off