Thoughts on Gift Giving - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 107 Old 12-20-2008, 08:25 PM
 
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I know you said you've been researching it, but I just did a paper on this a couple of semesters ago (I wish I could link my articles but they are academic papers and you have to be registered through a university that has bought the rights to them to view it)

There is some psychology research out there suggesting that Bratz contribute to "age compression" (as academics call it) and "Kids Growing Older Younger" (as advertisers call it). Basically it is the sexualization of children and introducing children to adult views of sex pre-puberty, which leads young people to act in a sexual manner before they are ready to emotionally/physically and mentally deal with these things.

I would never purchase a Bratz doll because they are very materialistic and they promote girls as being valued for their looks alone. Now majikfaerie's daughter is obviously being raised in a manner that strengthens her resolve against the media's influence. Unfortunatley many, many girls are not which leads them to buy into the values expressed by the dolls. My dollars are my vote. I vote no for these dolls.

But since Majikfaerie bought them on ebay, she didn't give a cent to the manufacturer... and also they will probably be wiped out by Barbie anyway... I just wanted to point out there is research about these dolls that is more negative than just "they are ugly and wear too much makeup", it's just not available to the general public (although it should be).

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#92 of 107 Old 12-20-2008, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
Which reminds of how GI Joe was always knocking up my Flower doll.

She's the hippie in the middle -- who actually wore a pink felt floppy hat. (Not that dumb straw one). (PS do not google-image World of Love Dolls with kids in the room. )

http://www.barbigirl.com/LOVE.JPG

My Sunshine Family dolls were all about the homebirth. They even came with their own spinning wheel and hippie camper:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...n%26safe%3Doff
I lovethose! awesome!

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majikfaerie, I love your article "Letting Children Find Their Own Strength" about TRUST, on your blog: http://www.eolife.org/article.php?ai...fe05737080d509


Pat
thankyou

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No? Suppose they decide when they are, say, 12 to have a webcam set up in their bedrooms so that they can "sexually express" themselves on the internet? You have no opinion about that? or if they decide that they would like to have sex unprotected. No problem?
See, you're coming from a totally different reality.
it's like saying "what if your child ends up taking herion at age 12 because she saw you having a few glasses of wine at dinner?"
It just wouldn't happen. There are soooo many more factors involved. No child is going to express themselves sexually on a webcam at age 12, simply because they were allowed to play with Bratz.
Said child would have to have a whole lot more going on that would lead to such a behaviour. and honestly; I would like to believe that parents on MDC would be raising their children in a loving, respectful and gentle manner, such that the mere playing with a doll couldn't break their self-esteem.

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Phew what a long thread....

I just wanted to chime in after reading majikfaerie's blog that she is very obviously living in a different culture (than here in the US) and people's attitudes (from what I saw on the blog) are much different and appear more healthy than in America.

That said I don't think OP has anything to worry about with bratz.

majikfaerie you and your DD are so beautiful, and after seeing your friends on your blog and all the wonderful natural beauty, I think whatever you're doing over there where you are is wonderful and healthy.

I only wish American women would be so bold.
goodness. thankyou too
I do live in a pretty different place than a lot of western people.

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Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
I know you said you've been researching it, but I just did a paper on this a couple of semesters ago (I wish I could link my articles but they are academic papers and you have to be registered through a university that has bought the rights to them to view it)

There is some psychology research out there suggesting that Bratz contribute to "age compression" (as academics call it) and "Kids Growing Older Younger" (as advertisers call it). Basically it is the sexualization of children and introducing children to adult views of sex pre-puberty, which leads young people to act in a sexual manner before they are ready to emotionally/physically and mentally deal with these things.

I would never purchase a Bratz doll because they are very materialistic and they promote girls as being valued for their looks alone. Now majikfaerie's daughter is obviously being raised in a manner that strengthens her resolve against the media's influence. Unfortunatley many, many girls are not which leads them to buy into the values expressed by the dolls. My dollars are my vote. I vote no for these dolls.

But since Majikfaerie bought them on ebay, she didn't give a cent to the manufacturer... and also they will probably be wiped out by Barbie anyway... I just wanted to point out there is research about these dolls that is more negative than just "they are ugly and wear too much makeup", it's just not available to the general public (although it should be).
about this reserach, thankyou for sharing that. it's very interesting. and as I said before, I don't believe for one second that these dolls alone could 'sexualise' a child. it would be impossible to conduct such a study, because you can't find children in a vacuum

But these studies are done mostly on children who are raised in western countries, by parents who are relying on a largely damaged society to provide their self-image.

When a girl's mother is herself unconfident in herself, and has a low self-image, which can manifest itself in many ways, it is not surprising that the girl would learn this kind of behaviour, and latch onto dolls like Bratz to model themselves on, thus becoming self-degrading behaviour, as the image of Bratz is virtually impossible to maintain on a real person.


anyway, end of the day, it's pretty irrelevant to my child, living in the environment we live in.

and the end of the day is that my question was about buying presents for children, and where/ how people draw lines on that.
This most interesting discussion has helped me to see where I'm really at, and come to a clear conclusion.
thankyou

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#93 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 12:00 AM
 
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Yes, I realize that a Bratz doll cannot alone corrupt a child. I did not say any such thing. Can it contribute to the sexualization of a child? Perhaps. I understand what you are saying about a 12 year old taking heroin cannot be due to parents having a few drinks, and I agree. What I do not agree with is those who would say that they do not intend to "judge" their children's choices. My point was, would you not have any opinions about your child's "choices" even if they were ones such as drugs or other things that are harmful to them?
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#94 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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can you not see the difference between opinion and judgement?

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#95 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 12:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mrspineau View Post
What I do not agree with is those who would say that they do not intend to "judge" their children's choices. My point was, would you not have any opinions about your child's "choices" even if they were ones such as drugs or other things that are harmful to them?
I prefer to deal with reality. Not "what ifs". Your reality may be different than ours. I can't see a Bratz doll being "harmful" to a child. I'm sure I was "sexualized" well before "appropriate" (whatever that means). However, I still "Found My Own Strength", and have been happily married for 26 years. I TRUST children to make their own choices for their own body and their own life, just as I trust you to make choices for yours.





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#96 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 02:03 AM
 
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I understand that these are whatifs. I know the difference between opinions and judgement. I was replying to the comment that someone made that they would not judge their child's sexual expression. I just posed the question of whether or not that includes when the expression is something that is harmful. That alone is what I was talking about.
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#97 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 10:48 AM
 
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I thought "sexual expression" meant like what they wear and whether they wear makeup and how they wear their hair. Not putting up sexually explicit (and at the age mentioned, illegal) material up on the internet.
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#98 of 107 Old 12-21-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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I would think that sexual expression would cover all sorts of things that go far beyond image.
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#99 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If anyone is interested for an update; it's christmas morning here, and DD woke up to find a present under the tree. here's photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majikfa...7610606581883/
(it's the whole of december in that album, so you have to scroll to the bottom)

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#100 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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(she's busy right now drawing tattoos on them and they already have haircuts)

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#101 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 10:19 PM
 
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Great! I'm glad she loves them.

Thanks for the update. I was wondering if you had them wrapped yet or not as it's 1am here and I wasn't sure if you were ahead or behind!
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#102 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks
I was a bit stressed about the wrapping paper, since I coudn't stand to buy paper, and I didn't have any stored up (I usually save wrapping paper). Then I thought of wrapping them in some sparkly material I had in my sewing basket

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#103 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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(she's busy right now drawing tattoos on them and they already have haircuts)
We are sooo going to need follow up pictures now.

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#104 of 107 Old 12-24-2008, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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will do...

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#105 of 107 Old 12-25-2008, 12:44 AM
 
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Pat

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#106 of 107 Old 01-04-2009, 04:31 AM
 
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I love when 'research' about toys and sexuality meets actual parenting.

You go.

Maybe the rest of academia will at some point catch up with those of us who actually interact, respect & communbicate with our children. If I read one more word about toys alone 'corrupting' children, I will puke.
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#107 of 107 Old 01-04-2009, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh, I took some photos of DD putting tattoos on her bratz this week. now i just have to upload them.

ETA
oh, and the coolest thing; we were in a charity thrift store yesterday, and i saw that exact same clock for sale for $4! : in perfect condition. just needed a new battery (the new ones don't come with batteries anyway). So DD got both in the end, and she's totally obsessed with learning to tell time on an analogue clock now too

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