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#271 of 288 Old 12-23-2008, 08:48 PM
 
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My friend is raising her granddaughter. While she is a very nice 8-year old, my friend really does not see the effect her granddaughter has on others around her and inserts her into situations that are incredibly awkward.

They went to the symphony and grandma thought it was adorable that her granddaughter was conducting the orchestra from her seat, complete with audible cues to the various instruments (an evening performance where tickets were $100 each). I was told by others in the party that they witnessed disapproving looks and were disappointed they didn't get to enjoy the symphony without interruption.

They went on a tour in NYC and the granddaughter took over the tour from the guide. I was there for this and the other 20 paying members of the tour were visibly annoyed.

Per my friend, everyone tells her how adorable her granddaughter is and what a joy she is to everyone. When we dined with them at a nice restaurant, I could see how the people around us were not charmed by her granddaughter climbing on the booth and trying to make conversation with the couple behind us, or by the granddaughter's "helping" the waitress serve the food.

I love my friend, but I could not tell her any of this. Instead I have made specific plans to see her sometimes in child-free environments. And when they are in my home I am direct with the 8-year old and set out "house rules". No feet on our furniture (because she loves to bounce and this is easier than saying you can stand, but not jump); no pulling the dog's tail; no ordering people to get her snacks or drinks. I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but I don't think this little girl is going to have an easy life if someone doesn't provide some social cues for her.

What is interesting is that my friend was far more strict with her (now grown) sons. I will be interested to see how things are years from now.

And I love a child-free B&B as much as I love the beach house we rent for a week in the summer that we share with 2 granddaughters! Each is enjoyable for different reasons and I am glad that they both exist.
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#272 of 288 Old 12-23-2008, 08:54 PM
 
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The last B & B we stayed at wasn't boring for ds at all (who was 3 at the time) it had miles of walking trails, a pool, farm animals, etc. Ds usually stays pretty entertained anywhere though as long as he has a few trains and he's a really quiet, calm kid. You just have to do your research before you go on what would be suitable for your family.

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#273 of 288 Old 12-24-2008, 04:28 AM
 
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I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but I don't think this little girl is going to have an easy life if someone doesn't provide some social cues for her.
You would be amazed. Sometimes I think that people try way too hard to provide these 'social cues', which may or may not last, and inadvertedly make things harder on themselves. I've seen some of the most undisciplined, brattiest kids (myself included) somehow turn into well-adjusted, polite adults- who do not stand up on couches.

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#274 of 288 Old 12-25-2008, 11:41 PM
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What adult LIKES going to the bank?

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#275 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 06:44 PM
 
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I would, too, if we had any money, LOL.

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#276 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 07:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CtMom View Post
My friend is raising her granddaughter. While she is a very nice 8-year old, my friend really does not see the effect her granddaughter has on others around her and inserts her into situations that are incredibly awkward.

They went to the symphony and grandma thought it was adorable that her granddaughter was conducting the orchestra from her seat, complete with audible cues to the various instruments (an evening performance where tickets were $100 each). I was told by others in the party that they witnessed disapproving looks and were disappointed they didn't get to enjoy the symphony without interruption.

They went on a tour in NYC and the granddaughter took over the tour from the guide. I was there for this and the other 20 paying members of the tour were visibly annoyed.

Per my friend, everyone tells her how adorable her granddaughter is and what a joy she is to everyone. When we dined with them at a nice restaurant, I could see how the people around us were not charmed by her granddaughter climbing on the booth and trying to make conversation with the couple behind us, or by the granddaughter's "helping" the waitress serve the food.

I love my friend, but I could not tell her any of this. Instead I have made specific plans to see her sometimes in child-free environments. And when they are in my home I am direct with the 8-year old and set out "house rules". No feet on our furniture (because she loves to bounce and this is easier than saying you can stand, but not jump); no pulling the dog's tail; no ordering people to get her snacks or drinks. I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but I don't think this little girl is going to have an easy life if someone doesn't provide some social cues for her.

What is interesting is that my friend was far more strict with her (now grown) sons. I will be interested to see how things are years from now.

And I love a child-free B&B as much as I love the beach house we rent for a week in the summer that we share with 2 granddaughters! Each is enjoyable for different reasons and I am glad that they both exist.[/QUOTE

omg..that is awful. I feel badly for the little girl because this kind of behavior I don't see being acceptable for Playdates... yikes she may lose friends over it...too bad. hopefully there will be an opporunity for your friend to have some input offered to her.

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#277 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 07:57 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Tracy;12864420]
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omg..that is awful. I feel badly for this little girl because this kind of behavior I don't see being acceptable for Playdates... yikes she may lose friends over it...too bad. hopefully there will be an opporunity for your friend to have some input offered to her.
I often think maybe I just don't have the patience for this type of little girl behavior that I should since I only have boys. This "center of attention" stuff and "princess treatment" makes me crazy. I was having a nice talk with a mom the other day and her daughter (who the Mom has said is a major princess) stepped between us started belting out songs from Annie. The mom, instead of asking her not to behave that way just ducked her head around the girl and tried to continue talking to me. I thought the girl might stop quickly but she didn't. I just walked away, rude I know, but not ruder that allowing her daughter to basically shout show-tunes in my face (and I love show-tunes!). She may be her cute little princess, but she just seemed like a brat to me, and as far as I could tell, that was ok with her Mom.

I would be very thankful not to have that little girl in the room next door at a B&B
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#278 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 09:39 PM
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I would be very thankful not to have that little girl in the room next door at a B&B
But... what if instead, you had the room next to the guy who got really drunk and spent the night singing heavy metal love songs... or the couple that had very LOUD sex all night long... or the woman who got up at 5 am to do her exercise routine, complete with pounding feet and loud breathing. There are plenty of things adults sometimes do that makes them obnoxious neighbors, too... whereas, on the other hand, if you'd had my little girl in the room next door you would probably have heard nothing at all, unless the walls were very, very thin... then you might have heard the pages of a book turning, or a low discussion about the furnishings.

I just think it's unfair to focus on age, rather than behavior.

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#279 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 09:58 PM
 
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I would feel very comfortable going to the next room and asking an adult to knock off the rude behavior. If they didn't comply and I was annoyed enough, i could then ask the staff to deal with him/her. I think it would be a more "sensitive subject" if I asked the same of a child (or the child's parents), because parents (including myself) are very sensitive about any comment regarding their child's behavior.
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#280 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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http://www.bbonline.com/kidfriendly.html

I don't mind that most B&B's are child free and I don't have a problem with there there being other adult only places. We went to a B&B for our honeymoon that was child free and I loved the quiet atmosphere. I don't often leave my kids now but It doesn't offend me that other would want to go on a romantic weekend or their Honeymoon and not have little kids all over the place.

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#281 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 10:59 PM
 
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Actually I think it's Denmark. But it's not because they don't welcome babies but more that places are too small to accommodate strollers. I think they believe the fresh air is good for them too.
Being from Denmark I will confirm that is true. My mom was mortified when I told her that here you do not leave your small child outside for naps. But he needs the fresh air

Also, it is considered safe to do so. No worries about someone stealing your baby.

That being said. babies are welcome pretty much anywhere. I have never not been welcome because of my child.

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#282 of 288 Old 12-26-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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http://www.bbonline.com/kidfriendly.html

I don't mind that most B&B's are child free and I don't have a problem with there there being other adult only places. We went to a B&B for our honeymoon that was child free and I loved the quiet atmosphere. I don't often leave my kids now but It doesn't offend me that other would want to go on a romantic weekend or their Honeymoon and not have little kids all over the place.
Agreed.

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#283 of 288 Old 12-27-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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Being from Denmark I will confirm that is true. My mom was mortified when I told her that here you do not leave your small child outside for naps. But he needs the fresh air

Also, it is considered safe to do so. No worries about someone stealing your baby.

That being said. babies are welcome pretty much anywhere. I have never not been welcome because of my child.
One thing that struck me, about the story that was previously linked to about the Danish mother who got arrested in New York City for leaving her baby outside the restaurant, was that people had come in and let the couple know that their baby was crying, and the couple were just saying "she's fine" and refusing to bring her in.

It was at this point that some people decided to call the police.

Now, since one poster here mentioned that in Scandinavian countries, people will pop in and let parents know, "Hey, your child is crying" -- it sounds like it's not common-place in these countries to just leave a crying baby out there alone. I think there were some serious issues with this couple. Also, the dad was an American and must have known the practice wasn't done here.

I'd initially felt sorry for the Danish mother, but after reading the account of what really happened, I felt more sorry for the baby because she was crying and her mother refused to go to her.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#284 of 288 Old 12-27-2008, 08:06 PM
 
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I do think it's a cultural thing. American society is definitely anti-child/anti-family. I'm not saying there are no family-friendly niches. But has anyone else noticed that there is no happy medium? Places to be either kid friendly or adult oriented. For example, even family restaurants like Applebees have had some anti-baby press (remember the NIP incident?).
I don't think that had anything to do with being anti-baby and everything to do with American' society being uptight about seeing boobs.

As for why parking your baby in a stroller out side a restaurant wouldn't work in the US, it's illegal. Well at least I sure it would be if leaving your child in the car while you run in and pay for your gas is.
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#285 of 288 Old 12-27-2008, 08:14 PM
 
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But... what if instead, you had the room next to the guy who got really drunk and spent the night singing heavy metal love songs... or the couple that had very LOUD sex all night long... or the woman who got up at 5 am to do her exercise routine, complete with pounding feet and loud breathing. There are plenty of things adults sometimes do that makes them obnoxious neighbors, too... whereas, on the other hand, if you'd had my little girl in the room next door you would probably have heard nothing at all, unless the walls were very, very thin... then you might have heard the pages of a book turning, or a low discussion about the furnishings.

I just think it's unfair to focus on age, rather than behavior.

Dar
I think it's hard to argue this, though, because if people did base it on behavior, you run into an issue of what is or isn't acceptable. Is there a certain decible level? A certain length of time that's acceptable? Is it only if other patrons complain? Should there be any difference depending on whether we're talking about a child or adult?

If you're (general you) going to fully accept that I, the B&B owner, have the right to ask you to leave as soon as your baby starts crying, then, cool. But, I have a feeling if I did that, I'd soon be reading a post on MDC about how I discriminated against the baby because she didn't know that it was somehow disturbing to cry at the B&B.
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#286 of 288 Old 12-28-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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I had this issue when I was a single mother. There is a neat resort on a beautiful lake in upstate NY that has a sliding scale for women. However, they don't allow children. It was upsetting to me, as there were entire cabins, so we wouldn't have disturbed anyone.

I agree that there are family friendly B&B's out there, you just have to look. Depending on where you go, there are condos, cabins etc for rent that may not be more expensive than the B&B
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#287 of 288 Old 12-28-2008, 01:09 PM
 
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I'm quite surprised really - but I am from Europe and have never travelled across to the US, but not allowing children - I find a bit difficult, here on websites etc they will tell you if there are cots, highchairs etc available and actually folk are encouraged to come with their family, in our experience we have never come across somewhere that doesn't want kids to be around - I think it's a bit sad really that we can't have an even community, it worries me - no kids around, retirement villages where only over 50s are permitted - it's very unnatural really.

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#288 of 288 Old 12-28-2008, 05:51 PM
 
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- I think it's a bit sad really that we can't have an even community, it worries me - no kids around, retirement villages where only over 50s are permitted - it's very unnatural really.
A few years' back I was talking with a friend about the unnaturalness of the church we attended at that time, where there was so much concern that having babies and children in the sanctuary might distract people from hearing God's Word, and could hinder the Holy Spirit.

I said God's Spirit was more powerful than that, and obviously whole families came to hear Jesus preach. And my friend said that we live in such a high-stress culture, that it's harder for people to listen, so sometimes that creates a need for parents to be able to get a break from their kids ...

And I thought it was so backward, and I still think so: If our culture is creating a situation where people need so many child-free zones, then I wish we'd attack the problem and not the children. That said, I realize it's a free country, and as long as significant numbers of people are willing to pay to stay in child-free places, they'll continue to do business.

But just as the child-free folks have a right to express their opinions, I have a right to express mine. And expressing my opinion isn't the same as saying that I don't think anyone should be "allowed" to do things I disagree with. It's just my opinion.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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