We don't accept children - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Going back to my original point, as long as they are behaving appropriately, why not? I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.
The problem is that children do not have to be behaving badly to cause a ruckus. Children can be happily and joyfully playing, and still disturb people who are paying for a weekend of peace and quiet.

In light of that, I can't imagine taking my kids to a B&B when they were young. Not because they were bad, but because they would run and stomp while playing, make incredible sound effects with their Hot Wheels, have little control over their "inside voices," etc.

Now, maybe other people have children that are mouselike, tip-toeing around and whispering, although that's highly unlikely to be the norm. IME, a lot of parents are so used to the clamour that their kids create that they tune it out, and don't realize that others might not appreciate it.
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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So if the rules said "Absolutely no yelling, whining, screaming, tantrums, or misbehavior will be tolerated or the guests will be forced to leave the premesis due to the tranquil nature of our business" Would that be better than just saying "No kids allowed"?
Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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I found these 2 B&Bs near Memphis that allow children. Hope this helps


http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/missi...breakfast.html (children allowed in guest house)

http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/missi...uponatime.html

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2xy
Do you think that anyone should be allowed to play in the tunnels and other equipment at Chuck E. Cheese? A 200-lb., 20yo guy should be allowed to play in the structure with the LO's?

Just curious.
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Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Going back to my original point, as long as they are behaving appropriately, why not? I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.
Umm sorry nope I don't want any random 20 plus year old 200lb grown up who has no bussiness playing on equipment designed for a toddler/child so is it after the 200 lb adult crashes againt our 25lb two year old that we say no you need to leave? SOme rules are set up for safety reasons. I don't think parents shoud be playing on the equipment eaither aiding there kids is diffrent.

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:43 PM
 
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IME, a lot of parents are so used to the clamour that their kids create that they tune it out, and don't realize that others might not appreciate it.
This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning? Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:51 PM
 
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Okay people. Seriously, one last time not allowing children in certain environments =/= racism. And the insistence that it is is patently offensive.
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.
I think it's fair to say "No children" only because I don't know even a single child that can go 24-48 hours without any disturbance/outburst (happy or upset). IMO, it's much better business (and practical) for the B&B just to state what they mean, and not let people show up thinking their kids are welcome or won't act up (and then do) and forfeit their money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have that kinda $$.

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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[QUOTE=AbbieB;12833503]
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No one said that the mere sight of a child would wreck everything. Come on.
QUOTE]

Maybe not in those words but yes, I think that is what some of the posts are saying.

But that is not what I was saying in my post. I was not quoting anybody, just summing up my perception of an attitude that seems to be prevailing in this thread.

I feel like perhaps I have offended and that has not been my intention.

You did not offend me. Not in the least. I just don't agree with your assessment.

I believe that it is okay to have some places that are child-free. I don't feel a bit of guilt about wanting time alone with my husband, or by myself, without my children, from time to time.

No harm, no foul.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:17 PM
 
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No kids at the bank? Wha?? It's not about whether the child gets a huge kick out of the bank, but about the fact that people with children have to live our lives. I take my kids to the bank all the time, I'm not about to get childcare so I can go to the bank!
But are most banks kid friendly? Mine doesn't have fresh baked cookies, and is kind of a dull place for a kid to be. They aren't banned from the bank, I'm just saying that not all businesses are designed to be kids friendly. And are they morally obligated to be kid-friendly? Nah.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.
Disruptive adults usually ARE asked to leave. Some businesses cater to people who don't want to be around kids, and that's not evil or bad. I happen to love kids, which is why I pursued teaching as a career. But I don't think businesses are evil for not having kids. Are strip clubs, casinos, and bars, (it's generally illegal for under-age people to enter these businesses) somehow discriminatory for not allowing kids in?
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:32 PM
 
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Okay people. Seriously, one last time not allowing children in certain environments =/= racism. And the insistence that it is is patently offensive.
Well, I don't think it 'equals racism,' no. And I think a B&B is an okay place to say no kids. But there was some discussion of no kids at the bank, etc. and IMO that is age discrimination and discrimination (against parents) based on family status. That does start to become pretty serious territory IMO. My life as a single mama would get about a billion times harder and more isolating if there were multiple random public places who felt they were free to say no children. That starts to infringe on human rights IMO.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:34 PM
 
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This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning? Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...
Honestly, I think the first part of your post sums it up very well. A lot of time's parents just don't realize that yes, a fussy baby is annoying, and that no, not everyone wants to hear your kid giggling and squealing. And while (most) parent's would take their kids out of a restaurant or somewhere if they throw a tantrum, by that time everyone else has been disrupted. The damage would be done. Child-free places seem like a great compromise to me. Not everyone wants to be around children constantly. And I think that's just fine.

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Old 12-20-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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But are most banks kid friendly? Mine doesn't have fresh baked cookies, and is kind of a dull place for a kid to be. They aren't banned from the bank, I'm just saying that not all businesses are designed to be kids friendly. And are they morally obligated to be kid-friendly? Nah.
You don't have to erect a playground in order to let children in. Children are people, family members, and can participate in the daily business of such without having everything targeted especially for them.

My goodness, if my child expected cookies and balloons everywhere we go, I would be in trouble.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:46 PM
 
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Disruptive adults usually ARE asked to leave.
And that's how it should be -- for kids and adults. I wish the restaurants and movie theaters we went to were more active about removing disruptive patrons of all ages (and my kids are with me at those places 99% of the time).

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Are strip clubs, casinos, and bars, (it's generally illegal for under-age people to enter these businesses) somehow discriminatory for not allowing kids in?
As I said earlier, I have no objection to businesses following the law. I disagree with laws banning children from anywhere, and I feel it should be up to me, as a parent, to decide what sort of places are appropriate for MY children, but I understand that businesses have to follow the law if they want to stay open.

I just think it's absolutely ridiculous to presume disruptive behavior from kids is the norm when it shouldn't be -- and FWIW, I'm not particularly enamored by or interested in engaging with other people's children when I go out. But if they're acting appropriately for the situation, there's no reason to exclude them.

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Old 12-20-2008, 02:57 PM
 
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I like "no kids" rules b/c it is clearcut. If a business were to say "no tantrums" (as an example) I can just imagine the headaches it would cause them.

B&B Owner: I'm sorry, m'aam. Your daughter is throwing a tantrum. That's against our rules. I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Mother: That's not a tantrum! She's just a tiny bit upset! But I would NOT define that as a "tantrum."

B&B Owner: Well it seems to be a tantrum to me. And other guests have complained.

Mother: I am telling you this is NOT a tantrum. She threw a tantrum last week, and THAT was a tantrum. This is NOT a tantrum.

B&B Owner: *sigh* It's a tantrum. It really is.

Mother: Well I'm going to sue you b/c this is not a tantrum.


It just makes no logical sense. What YOU as a parent (general you obviously) may feel is fine and dandy behavior, may not in reality be fine behavior to a B&B owner.

That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.
It is easy. It is also discrimination. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's always wrong, but I think it should be only permitted in very specific circumstances.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:00 PM
 
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You don't have to erect a playground in order to let children in. Children are people, family members, and can participate in the daily business of such without having everything targeted especially for them.

My goodness, if my child expected cookies and balloons everywhere we go, I would be in trouble.
Which is why I said kids aren't banned from the bank, it's just not designed to be kid friendly and there's nothing wrong with that. If a business caters to people who want a kidfree place to go, how is that so bad? I like kids. I spend all day with them. I make occasional babysitting money on the side. When I'm out in a bar I swear, may or may not get drunk, dress trashy. I actually don't want to see my students there.

Also, with some state laws and insurance policies, tiny businesses like B&Bs may *need* to avoid kids if they have antiques or serve liquor.

Jessy, I think stripping should be legal and protected, and my closest friend relied on stripping for a good while to make ends meet. But strip clubs, by their very nature, are meant for adults. Both the owners and patrons want it to be that way. Even if it were legal I think it'd be HIGHLY inappropriate.

And a little creepy.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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It is easy. It is also discrimination. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's always wrong, but I think it should be only permitted in very specific circumstances.


Well I agree with you that it should be allowed in only certain circumstances, that's why I'm not a big fan of the "bank" example.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:04 PM
 
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Which is why I said kids aren't banned from the bank, it's just not designed to be kid friendly and there's nothing wrong with that. If a business caters to people who want a kidfree place to go, how is that so bad?
My point is that it depends on the business. I think discrimination against children by not permitting them on the premises is a pretty tricky area, and should only be permitted for specific businesses. So the bank for example should have no option of preventing children on the premises. Bars, sure (I guess, although ours are smokefree and I took my first babe to the pub a fair bit back in the day). B&Bs, okay. But that should not extend far beyond those two types of establishments IMO.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:05 PM
 
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Well I agree with you that it should be allowed in only certain circumstances, that's why I'm not a big fan of the "bank" example.
Yeah the bank example I find highly disturbing. We start to get into territory where people are prevented from living their lives because they are parents. I don't know about you but I don't have childcare at my beck and call so I can do things like go to the bank! That's nuts.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:09 PM
 
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Yeah the bank example I find highly disturbing. We start to get into territory where people are prevented from living their lives because they are parents. I don't know about you but I don't have childcare at my beck and call so I can do things like go to the bank! That's nuts.
I'll say it again. The bank does not prevent children from entering the premise. It just as a rule isn't a kid friendly place to be. It's a bank.

If the bank disallowed children from entering, I'd agree that would be stupid and counterproductive. Most clients have families. I'm just trying to say that plenty of businesses don't have a setup that's geared towards kids, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:11 PM
 
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omg I read what you said, thanks.

Could you read what I am saying? This idea that it's fine for businesses to prevent children, which many people have said, is a slippery slope. And it does begin to enter into 'discrimination on the basis of family status' territory.

The fact the bank is not 'set up for children' has no bearing on the conversation IMO, nobody is saying there should be bubbles and lollipops everywhere.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:11 PM
 
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Yeah, I think vacation things like B&B's are fine, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, you can find "kid-free" hotels/B&B's/Guest Houses all over the WORLD. Not just the bad ol' US as some people would like us to believe.


And I think that having a rule about "no kids in strip clubs" is a good idea...b/c again...some children need protection from their own parents lack of decent judgment. Same with violent movies at the theater. Some parents do not "get" it, and if a rule needs to be made that a small child shouldn't watch someone getting hacked to pieces, then I have no problem with that.

But obviously banks - while they may not be "fun" for kids - should never be a kid-free zone. I'm not even a fan of kid-free restaurants (and I"m not sure if they exist). We have taken DS to a fancy restauarant before and he was a really good and quiet boy, but if he got even a tiny bit disruptive we would not stay (again, you can't count on all parents to have this type of good judgment unfortunately)

I just find the B&B thing to be absolutely fine, though. Also, I think some resorts are no-kid places, and that is also fine.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning? Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...
I think the difference here for some of us, is that I don't expect all the spaces in my accommodation to be "relaxing". If I'm eating breakfast with 10 other people, I'm going to expect some noise, regardless of the ages of said people. The only place I expect quiet is in my room. And again, I usually have more problems with adults than children. (why do people sleep with the TV on!)

And many spa's allow children if they are behaving appropriately. (The sextuplets on TLC's Jon and Kate Plus 8 just had pedicures. They are 4)

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Old 12-20-2008, 03:15 PM
 
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When I take my kids to the bank I am there with them for all of 5 minutes, some banks with long lines may keep you there longer I know. But not the whole weekend. When I am there without my kids I am not expecting peaceful surroundings and a sense of tranquility. I have one goal in mind, and one only, to do my business and get the heck out of there. I don't like banking, with or without kids, it's a pain in the ass even if I'm there to deposit money or some other positive thing. It's not comparable to a romantic weekend get away with my spouse.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:17 PM
 
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I like "no kids" rules b/c it is clearcut. If a business were to say "no tantrums" (as an example) I can just imagine the headaches it would cause them.

B&B Owner: I'm sorry, m'aam. Your daughter is throwing a tantrum. That's against our rules. I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Mother: That's not a tantrum! She's just a tiny bit upset! But I would NOT define that as a "tantrum."

B&B Owner: Well it seems to be a tantrum to me. And other guests have complained.

Mother: I am telling you this is NOT a tantrum. She threw a tantrum last week, and THAT was a tantrum. This is NOT a tantrum.

B&B Owner: *sigh* It's a tantrum. It really is.

Mother: Well I'm going to sue you b/c this is not a tantrum.


It just makes no logical sense. What YOU as a parent (general you obviously) may feel is fine and dandy behavior, may not in reality be fine behavior to a B&B owner.

That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.
Mom: It's not a tantrum - She's just "expressing her negative emotions". My child is ALLOWED to express her emotions wherever she wants. What are you, some kind of child hater?
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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omg I read what you said, thanks.

Could you read what I am saying? This idea that it's fine for businesses to prevent children, which many people have said, is a slippery slope. And it does begin to enter into 'discrimination on the basis of family status' territory.

The fact the bank is not 'set up for children' has no bearing on the conversation IMO, nobody is saying there should be bubbles and lollipops everywhere.
Then why do you find the bank example "disturbing?" I'm trying to say that we have businesses all around us that cater to adults, and it's not actually a problem.

And in this country at least, businesses more often than not cater to families. Why? Because the majority of adults with money also have families. So there are more family restaurants, vacation destinations, etc. A few businesses find a niche market in being kid-free. I don't see how the vast majority of people will be discriminated against in favor of the very few people who don't want to be around kids. That would be totally bad for business. Most restaurants, for example, do have a kids menu. Why? Cause they actually want family business. A few restaurants make a profit by serving very expensive food and having a very adult atmosphere. I don't see how one is better than the other.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning? Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...
I am asked frequently- by parents- how I can stand being in the class room all day long with 29 little kids. To me it's fun. I like my job. (Yes, there are very annoying bits). But it's true that even light noise from a kid can be irritating to others. Sad, but true.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:24 PM
 
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I think we are talking past each other.

I dont care if places don't hand out bubblegum to kids.

I do not think banks, or most types of stores and services really, should be permitted to exclude children. B&Bs are an exception to this, but I am not comfortable with just 'letting the free market decide.' It is discrimination, that really can't be argued IMO, and perhaps it is acceptable in certain circumstances. But those circumstances should be greatly limited, by law.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:24 PM
 
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Mom: It's not a tantrum - She's just "expressing her negative emotions". My child is ALLOWED to express her emotions wherever she wants. What are you, some kind of child hater?

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