Talk about timing (update on 18yoDD) & CPS question? - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-06-2009, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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First of all I want to thank all of you SO MUCH for being so supportive of our situation with 18yoDD. It really means so much to me that I can vent and sob and scream in frustration and still know there are so many mamas supporting this journey we are on. As a recap, the other thread is here.

So I had a mom's night out with some girlfriends tonight. DH texts midmeeting saying the police are at the house looking for DD. Oooookee dokee. Um. She hasn't LIVED at our house in 10 months. Not sure why they'd look with us? DH gets their card and tells them I'll call when I get home.

I call and talk to the officer. I am assuming she's being looked for because she's on probation for theft, or because of the TONS of bad checks she's been writing. Ummm....boy am I wrong. She's got a warrant alrighty...she was ticketed for shoplifting back in November (she was kind enough to give them OUR address as HERS, so it's harder to find her) and didn't bother showing up for court in December. So NOW she's facing shoplifting charges, plus failure to appear charges, PLUS violation of probation charges (for the original theft charge) PLUS she's pregnant and due to have this baby in four days. The police asked me to ask around the homeless shelters where she was last seen and see if I can get a lead on where she is. He said they'd rather pick her up before she has the baby.

WOWZER.

Anyone know what happens if she has the baby in jail? Does CPS take the baby? Does she have the option to give the baby to anyone (us?)? I don't even know that I'd take the baby, I'm not sure what I'd do if the situation plopped itself in our laps. CPS wouldn't let her give the baby to a friend would they? She's got this 'partner in crime' buddy/friend and these two ladies are pulling scams all over town. So I'd be concerned that she'd give the baby to this 'friend' if she's in jail.

I think I'm over the ache for the time being. I mean, I'm sad that she's being such an idiot, but at least it's CRYSTAL CLEAR she hasn't learned ANYTHING from her past mistakes. And it means I was right to stop putting myself in the middle of her life, just asking to get hurt again and again.

Remind me of this...please...when I'm falling apart with mama misery for this little lost girl that isn't little...and apparently wants to be lost. Remind me she's an adult now. Remind me that learning from her mistakes is going to suck only because she insists on making it that way.

DH asked what I want to do if she calls. I have NO idea. Talk about a scenario they don't exactly prep you for in the parenting books. Good GRIEF!

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Old 01-06-2009, 05:09 AM
 
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:55 AM
 
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I don't think I would help the police pick her up before she had the baby.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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I don't have any advice but I just wanted to give you a . What a hard situation.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:40 PM
 
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I have heard that in my state, if both parents die, unless there is a will, the child goes into the foster system. The family of the child can try for the child, but they have to work with the system. I am assuming the same thing would happen with the child of someone in jail. But, if the baby was already with you, maybe it would be easier to retain custody of the baby? I have no idea. I am just speculating.

Maybe the police want to pick her up before she has the baby because they assume that you will bail her out? And then you would have an incentive to make sure that she shows up for future court dates? Just a guess.

You might want to think about contacting a lawyer, just to ask a few hypothetical questions. Many will answer some questions over the phone for free.

But first you have to decide whether or not you want to care for the baby. If you possibly can, I would urge you to. It will be much easier on your grandchild to be with loving family than strangers.

If decide that you can care for the baby, I would urge her to just come home.

What a tough situation!

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Old 01-06-2009, 02:14 PM
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I know that in some circumstances when a baby is born while the mother is in custody that the baby will be given to a family member.

Usually she will give birth in the hospital, have a day or two with the baby and then the designated person will pick the baby up from a social worker at the hospital.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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I'd check with CPS in your state. Unfortunately just because your family doesn't always mean that CPS will want to give the baby to you, although I hope that wouldn't be the case. I'm pretty even kinship care homes have to be inspected/home studies performed just the same way as foster parents but I could be wrong. Honestly if I were you I'd find her, and try to keep in contact with her so you can be where ever she is when she gives birth. That she can hand the baby immediately off to you and the baby stays with family. She doesn't have a current CPS case against her, so the baby will be born into her custody, and she will have the right to transfer the baby over to you so CPS (hopefully) doesn't get involved. I'm pretty sure that the police don't automatically call CPS when they arrest a mother unless the mother has no one to come take care of the kids or the kids are obviously being abused/neglected. Either way, I'd do my best to keep the baby out of the system unless you don't think you can take care of the baby.

ETA: I would NOT help the police get her before she has the baby-because if that happens, there is a very good chance CPS would get involved. I'd try to keep them out of the situation as much as possible.

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Old 01-06-2009, 03:33 PM
 
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Everyone seems to be saying dont get the police involved, dont let CPS find her before she has the baby.

But this is a girl that hasnt been in contact with you, doesnt appear to want a relationship with you etc right?

At this point, i think the focus should be on the safety of that baby. If the baby can be born while she is arrested, in jail, etc...all the better. It sounds like she in no way can mother this baby at this point, and it sounds like the baby will be at risk with your daughter, from what you describe. It sounds like she has attachment issues, and that bodes very badly for the baby...who then, because her attachment disordered mother doesnt meet her needs, could go on to develop attachment issues herself. I think its imperative this baby "land" in a safe place. You can't force your daughter to give you her baby or to let some other safe person care for the baby...but CPS *can*...

You could let CPS know that you are her family, that you want to be involved (whether this means you take the baby or visit or whatever)...CPS would much rather place the baby with an appropriate relative than fill up another foster home. My baby (fostered now adopted) was first offered to the *seventy six yr old* great grandmother who had adopted two other half sibs...she refused, and only then was the baby put into a foster home. There was one interested relative, a 54 yr old single man who worked fulltime, and they would have at least considered him for placement (he was having visits), but in the end he said he couldnt adopt either. So baby stayed with us. But yes, they rather place with relatives. Being that you've adopted before (DD is adopted, i'm assuming??) they could possibly even use that old homestudy for initial placement, and then go from there. (IF you would want the placement, if not maybe you know of another relative or friend who could take the baby.)

At least if CPS gets involved they can mandate your daughter take parenting classes, have a stable place to live, etc before being allowed to just take off with her child. I really fear for this little baby if no one gets involved.


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Old 01-06-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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Just a big : to queenjane. I agree.

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Old 01-06-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
It sounds like she in no way can mother this baby at this point, and it sounds like the baby will be at risk with your daughter, from what you describe. It sounds like she has attachment issues, and that bodes very badly for the baby...who then, because her attachment disordered mother doesnt meet her needs, could go on to develop attachment issues herself. I think its imperative this baby "land" in a safe place. You can't force your daughter to give you her baby or to let some other safe person care for the baby...but CPS *can*...
: In your last post, you mentioned your daughter had borderline personality disorder. As a daughter with a mother who has BPD, I knwo that at the very fundamental level, this is an attatchment issue. I, too, really worry about this baby. I would do exactly as the police suggest, and try to find her before she has the baby, so she doesn't have a chance to give it to her little friend, or anyone else.

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Old 01-06-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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A big : to you!
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:42 PM
 
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Everyone seems to be saying dont get the police involved, dont let CPS find her before she has the baby.

But this is a girl that hasnt been in contact with you, doesnt appear to want a relationship with you etc right?

At this point, i think the focus should be on the safety of that baby. If the baby can be born while she is arrested, in jail, etc...all the better. It sounds like she in no way can mother this baby at this point, and it sounds like the baby will be at risk with your daughter, from what you describe. It sounds like she has attachment issues, and that bodes very badly for the baby...who then, because her attachment disordered mother doesnt meet her needs, could go on to develop attachment issues herself. I think its imperative this baby "land" in a safe place. You can't force your daughter to give you her baby or to let some other safe person care for the baby...but CPS *can*...

You could let CPS know that you are her family, that you want to be involved (whether this means you take the baby or visit or whatever)...CPS would much rather place the baby with an appropriate relative than fill up another foster home. My baby (fostered now adopted) was first offered to the *seventy six yr old* great grandmother who had adopted two other half sibs...she refused, and only then was the baby put into a foster home. There was one interested relative, a 54 yr old single man who worked fulltime, and they would have at least considered him for placement (he was having visits), but in the end he said he couldnt adopt either. So baby stayed with us. But yes, they rather place with relatives. Being that you've adopted before (DD is adopted, i'm assuming??) they could possibly even use that old homestudy for initial placement, and then go from there. (IF you would want the placement, if not maybe you know of another relative or friend who could take the baby.)

At least if CPS gets involved they can mandate your daughter take parenting classes, have a stable place to live, etc before being allowed to just take off with her child. I really fear for this little baby if no one gets involved.


Katherine

I agree w/ this.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:10 PM
 
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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If this was my DD, for the baby's best interest, I would be trying to get CPS involved and getting the baby placed with me.

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Old 01-06-2009, 07:41 PM
 
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It might be wise for you to contact CPS preemptively to find out what might happen in this situation. There's also a possibility that if your DD is found guilty, she could be put on probation or have deferred jail time since she has a baby (not that that's safest for the baby necessarily). Maybe talking to a lawyer would be a good idea too, so you know what your options are, depending on how involved you want to get.

I don't have grown children, but I have siblings that sound very much like your daughter, and I know how hard it can be for my parents. I also know that it is possible (from what my parents have been through) to have a positive relationship with grandchildren even when you have a difficult relationship with your children.

I should probably be doing something else right now.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:42 PM
 
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ETA: I would NOT help the police get her before she has the baby-because if that happens, there is a very good chance CPS would get involved. I'd try to keep them out of the situation as much as possible.
Absolutely.

I'd try to find her myself, if i were you, OP, and would get any information I could from CPS in case they did get involved so that the baby would be placed with me immediately . . . but beyond that, I would be trying to get her help without involving the police or CPS. Too big a can of worms being opened there.

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Old 01-06-2009, 07:48 PM
 
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In my state it is possible for the mother to give the baby to family members or for the family members to go through the foster parent certification process to become the babies guardian. Contact CPS to see for sure what you need to do to get the baby. I am not sure if the baby goes straight to foster care no matter what or if there is a way to get guardianship if the baby's parent agrees to it, they should be able to tell you that.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The reason the police want to find her asap is so CPS can get involved from the get go, which we support happening. I know ppl here have had problems with CPS in their lives unneccessarily, and I agree that CPS overreacts at times, but there are times they need to be involved and this is one of them. There are serious concerns about her ability to care for this child safely and she does not see us as a resource, nor are we willing to have her back in our home. Whether or not we are willing to take the baby is still something we're figuring out, and quite frankly it hinges on her agreeing to a permamant guardianship or CPS doing an involuntary TPR, and it's WAY to early for that to happen. I will not take this baby and go right back to dealing with her insanity all over again. Period. I think if she's willing to give us permanant guardianship than we'd consider it, but I refuse to be a waystation for her to hop in and out of jail, or the target of her vengeful rage when she blames me for her life gone wrong. She's facing charges for failure to appear, shoplifting, and numerous probation violations. That's not counting the brewing bad check charges in the adjoining county. This is potentially serious jail time.

So...I talked to her probation officer today. He said he has NEVER MET HER , nor does he have a valid address for her. He's tried to set up meetings with her for the last six months and she doesn't show (so what took him so danged long?). His suggestion was to start digging and see if I can find her myself. So, I made some phone calls and she left the women's rehabilitation placement (supposed to be a 2 year program) after only a few months, right after she was ticketed for shoplifting, since women can't be in that program and breaking the law.

It's possible she's with my XH, as he's got zero qualms about hiding her from everyone. It's possible she reunited with her Xbf (baby's father, supposedly) and is staying with them or Xbf's parents. I'm working on ways to check into both options. Calling XH directly wouldn't be productive so I'm going to have to get creative with looking into that one .

After a day of dead ends I called CPS and had a very helpful conversation with a worker who genuinely gave a damn about the entire mess. She said she already has a file on DD (interesting...?) and her first recommendation was for us to get guardianship of the baby asap, but that DD would have to agree to that. Her second recommendation is that since DD is due to have this baby any day now, contact the area hospital social workers and put a bug in their ear that CPS and the police are looking for DD, so they will contact both as soon as she's admitted.

And, the worker said DD can place the child with whomever she pleases, even if she has the baby in jail. At the same time, since there are concerns with DD's ability to safely care for the baby, CPS is willing to look into wherever she places the child and determine if there is still reason to intervene. She documented our phone call in DD's file and asked that I contact them asap with any update information regarding DD's whereabouts, including if/when she ends up in jail or the hospital...whichever comes first. I told them I would. I'm calling the hospital social workers tomorrow so we'll go from there I guess.

Thoughts?

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Old 01-06-2009, 09:46 PM
 
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I was a corrections officer for a women's jail years ago. Unfortunately, I had to transport a few women to the hospital to give birth. She's not going to have the baby "in jail".

The advantages to them picking her up before she has her baby is that she will have access to medical care and the safety of the child is more likely served, especially if it's going to be born in situation where it'll need support as it goes through withdrawal. Frankly, it may also be preferable to her giving birth in a public restroom, ect. Even if she were to have precipitous labor, a cell is clean, people are nearby, and she can get immediate medical attention if needed. If that's a better environment than the one she currently lives in (which I guess you have no idea), then it might be a positive.

Jail doesn't change the equation, as far as CPS/state custody. She can still have a say in where her baby is placed, to a point. Though I never had it happen that I witnessed, if you live in a state where a parent can legally abandon her child at a hospital in the first 24-48 hours of birth, she can still do that even being in custody, and you may or may not have 'dibs' on the baby.

If you can't tolerate any risk of contact with her, or dealing with her though--I think you may need to just step back and let things happen. I seriously doubt there will be TPR due to shoplifting charges, or even drug use. So if you want the child, you're going to have to deal with her. If that's a dealbreaker, it's a dealbreaker. I'm so sorry for all this pain you are having to experience.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:27 PM
 
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my heart really goes out to you. this is my worst nightmare. my dd I believe is bi polar and she refuses to treat it. for the most part she is a good mom, takes my advice and is under control most of the time. she has however had some very out of control moments and it really scares me.

the love you express in your other thread really penetrated me. that love is so deep and true and only serves to make the pain that much more overwhelming. the fear and disappointment and sense of failure is so crippling I don't know how to crawl out of it when I am there.

so hugs and good vibes and all that .. and remember we are here when you need us.

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Old 01-07-2009, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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my heart really goes out to you. this is my worst nightmare. my dd I believe is bi polar and she refuses to treat it. for the most part she is a good mom, takes my advice and is under control most of the time. she has however had some very out of control moments and it really scares me.

the love you express in your other thread really penetrated me. that love is so deep and true and only serves to make the pain that much more overwhelming. the fear and disappointment and sense of failure is so crippling I don't know how to crawl out of it when I am there.

so hugs and good vibes and all that .. and remember we are here when you need us.
My bold

Thank you so much, and well said. And you managed to say in two sentences what took me two pages...and much more eloquently at that!

It's really hard. I guess knowing what's going on is better than not. But we knew years ago she was headed for a hard life, no matter how much we wanted to save her from it. Doesn't make it easier, just made me so determined to try and help her steer in the other direction. MDC *really* helps so much with my sanity. I can come here and help out others, that takes my mind off of it. And the help I get in return from everyone is like a salve on a raw wound.

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Old 01-07-2009, 12:51 AM
 
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Doesn't make it easier, just made me so determined to try and help her steer in the other direction.
No it doesn't .. and once there is a baby involved ... sigh... its just that much harder... you worry more about the baby but you have no control ... thats the worst part. Right now my dd is a lot better than she was a year and even 2 years ago. But I seem to be always at the edge of my seat waiting for another shoe to drop. - hang in there ... feel free to pm me if you ever want to.

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Old 01-07-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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oh mama, I couldn't read your post without at least sending some

Bearing witness to someone you love who has made some bad choices just breaks your heart, for as much as you wish things were different your gal..you have to protect yourself too.
It sounds like you know that all too well. (wouldn't it be great to just love with abandon? never to worry ?*sigh*)

A friend of mine once told me "don't borrow someone else's sorrow" That reminds me to stay in perspective sometimes and still care and help, without depleting my own heart.

I hope you get some resolution about her baby soon. You are a rockin' mama to still be plugging away to make sure there are services set up. CPS can be a changing point for some folks.I worked with teens who were in foster care that were pregnant or had infants for about 3 years, and many of them got it together only after CPS had stepped in and taken their children into custody. (I agree that they also can be too heavy handed at times.) Maybe this will be her turning point.

sending peace and hope your way and her's too.

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Old 01-08-2009, 02:14 AM
 
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:41 AM
 
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Couldn't read and not send you . What a hard situation.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:26 AM
 
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Just wanted to send you a
Just knowing how much a mother loves her daughter and knowing how much you are going through right now is bringing me to tears.
I am so sorry that you have to deal with all of this heartbreak and worry.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:07 PM
 
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Everyone seems to be saying dont get the police involved, dont let CPS find her before she has the baby.

But this is a girl that hasnt been in contact with you, doesnt appear to want a relationship with you etc right?

At this point, i think the focus should be on the safety of that baby. If the baby can be born while she is arrested, in jail, etc...all the better. It sounds like she in no way can mother this baby at this point, and it sounds like the baby will be at risk with your daughter, from what you describe. It sounds like she has attachment issues, and that bodes very badly for the baby...who then, because her attachment disordered mother doesnt meet her needs, could go on to develop attachment issues herself. I think its imperative this baby "land" in a safe place. You can't force your daughter to give you her baby or to let some other safe person care for the baby...but CPS *can*...

You could let CPS know that you are her family, that you want to be involved (whether this means you take the baby or visit or whatever)...CPS would much rather place the baby with an appropriate relative than fill up another foster home. My baby (fostered now adopted) was first offered to the *seventy six yr old* great grandmother who had adopted two other half sibs...she refused, and only then was the baby put into a foster home. There was one interested relative, a 54 yr old single man who worked fulltime, and they would have at least considered him for placement (he was having visits), but in the end he said he couldnt adopt either. So baby stayed with us. But yes, they rather place with relatives. Being that you've adopted before (DD is adopted, i'm assuming??) they could possibly even use that old homestudy for initial placement, and then go from there. (IF you would want the placement, if not maybe you know of another relative or friend who could take the baby.)

At least if CPS gets involved they can mandate your daughter take parenting classes, have a stable place to live, etc before being allowed to just take off with her child. I really fear for this little baby if no one gets involved.


Katherine

i agree 100% with this. even though it must be so hard to let your daughter go, to help find her, it is the right thing to do for your grandchild (or possible future child!)
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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Sending you some huge hugs.

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