Anyone esle NOT plan on pushing their kids to go to college? - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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#151 of 179 Old 02-07-2009, 03:22 PM
 
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I wasn't pushed into college, but it was taken for granted that that was what i'd do after graduating high school. I'm so thankful that I did. I'm supporting my family in a way that I wouldn't be able to if I had not.


I learned so much more in college than my job skills.

I won't *push* my kids to go, but it will be the default option.
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#152 of 179 Old 02-07-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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I don't think it's the be all and end all, but I do think there are some great things about university.

Both DH and I have fairly "useless" undergrad degrees (Anthro and fine Arts), but the learning, growing and experiences we had were so valuable. I learned a lot about myself, society, and what was important to me...plus it was a great place to meet other people (like DH, lol) and debate ideas. It also led to both DH and I getting second degrees (after working/living for 5-8 years post BA, working pretty crap jobs) and we are both working great jobs now with MA degrees.

I would never push my kids into a uni degree thinking it would give them a leg up in the workforce (unless of course, they went for a "practical" degree: ie. medicine, engineering, etc.), but I do think it's an excellent bridge between teenagehood and adulthood.

I am going to "force" them to take a year between HS and uni to work, travel, or do something different before they head off (if they head off) to uni, as I think it will give them more perspective, and they'll hopefully be more mature when they head off. 18 is too young, IMO. If they need more than a year, that's fine too.

We started an RESP for both kids so that finances won't be an issue if they decide to go to uni. I want it to be an option for them. We also have grandparents who think uni is very important, and who would step up financially if we couldn't. We are lucky, in that respect!

If they decide that uni is not for them, that's fine too...but they need to have some sort of er....life plan. Wow, writing that made me feel really old

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#153 of 179 Old 02-07-2009, 05:23 PM
 
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I mostly learned that the rich kids have a whole lot more fun in college than the poor ones -- and that money can buy better grades. :P But I do think having a degree from a prestigious school did help me get a couple of my jobs, and in fact, a friend I met at school is the one who ended up hiring me for the job that really got me started.

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#154 of 179 Old 02-07-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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...but I do think it's an excellent bridge between teenagehood and adulthood.
That's kind of an interesting take. When I was in my early 20s, I couldn't believe how young most of the college/university grads I met seemed. I never thought of it as a bridge at all, because based on most people I met who had post-secondary educations, the main effect it seemed to have was extending adolescence by several years.

I'm enjoying getting the perspective of people who did get a post-secondary education immediately after high school, though. It's a very different world for me, as the only person in my family with any post-secondary is my mom, and she got her degree much later. (I did a year of community college, but it was vocational training - office skills and basic accounting. I'd wasted my high school years on university prep courses, and had no useful job skills at all.)

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#155 of 179 Old 02-07-2009, 11:15 PM
 
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I have a liberal arts degree, and I work in book publishing--so, I don't make tons of money but I love what I do and I needed a degree to work in this industry.

I loved college--and it absolutely did open my mind/world view to many things. So would traveling cross country or going to Europe--so no, college isn't the only way to get that experience.

I wouldn't push college, and I'd be fine if DD decided she wanted to be some kind of performer or work in a trade where college wasn't necessary. Really, I'd be happy if she has any kind of direction or desire at 18!

I take her going to college for granted now-but I'll throw out a tangent--it would be very tough for me to pay for a lower-level college. I'm not sure "a degree" from just anywhere would be worth the investment--at that point I might encourage an eye opening trip to Europe instead.
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#156 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 12:06 AM
 
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I would be thrilled to see my boys grow up to be in some sort of hands on work, mechanics, electrical, construction, etc. and my girls happily married homemakers.
It amazes me in this time in our history that anyone still believes it is better for girls not to have an education or a trade. It makes me sad to think about a daughter and her children being thrown into poverty after her husband dies or leaves or perhaps even worse being forced to stay in an unhappy marriage because she has no way to earn a living.

I don't think there is one right answer college or not college. Probably a lot of people are going to college who really can't finish and won't be happy there. For me personally college was a wonderful gift. It exposed me to a lot I wouldn't have been otherwise and helped me consider new ideas. Also, having a degree made it possible for me to get jobs that weren't necessarily well paid, but allowed me to make a meaningful contribution to the lives of others. I believe intellectual stimulation and the ability to make the world a better place are important parts of what make me a happy person. There are other routes to get there I suppose, but for me college worked well.
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#157 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 12:11 AM
 
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It amazes me in this time in our history that anyone still believes it is better for girls not to have an education or a trade. It makes me sad to think about a daughter and her children being thrown into poverty after her husband dies or leaves or perhaps even worse being forced to stay in an unhappy marriage because she has no way to earn a living.
I supported myself for 14 years, and my ex-husband and son for a good portion of that. I have skills (despite having no real education or a trade). You know what? I prefer being a SAHM...and if dh dies after I've been home for another 10-20-30 years, the fact that I did other things before becoming a SAHM isn't going to make one bit of difference on the job market. Nobody cares much about a 20+ year old degree or out-of-date training.

So...no, I don't think it's "better" for girls not to have an education or trade, but if dd happens to make the same choice I've made, I doubt an education or a trade is going to make that much difference if something goes wrong (divorce, spousal death, etc.). Depending on what people - male or female - do with their lives after getting a post-secondary education, that education may or may not ever matter.

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#158 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 12:37 AM
 
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Many of these posts are making me very sad. A college education is SO much more than just a ticket to a job. I don't per se "use" my undergrad degree in that I am not employed in that field, but my life would be so much less enriched had I not attended college. Ymmv, of course, but I would not trade an opportunity for learning and education for anything in the world, no matter what setting it occurs in.

I expect DD to attend at least one year of college to give it a try and see if it suits her and her goals.

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#159 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 12:48 AM
 
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Many of these posts are making me very sad. A college education is SO much more than just a ticket to a job. I don't per se "use" my undergrad degree in that I am not employed in that field, but my life would be so much less enriched had I not attended college.
I am not saying that college does not enrich one's life, but it's like ANYTHING. It is ONE path, but it certainly isn't the only or best path for everyone.

I learned very little in college. I could get an A on an exam, and walk out of the exam room forgetting most of the material. However, I have learned SO MUCH from my family, my friends, and my travels.

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#160 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 01:00 AM
 
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Many of these posts are making me very sad. A college education is SO much more than just a ticket to a job. I don't per se "use" my undergrad degree in that I am not employed in that field, but my life would be so much less enriched had I not attended college. Ymmv, of course, but I would not trade an opportunity for learning and education for anything in the world, no matter what setting it occurs in.
I think post-secondary education can be many things. However, the big reason that many people push it these days is because it's becoming a minimum requirement to get work. That's reality. Most people can't afford to just disregard the career/financial aspects of it.

Opportunities for learning and education are everywhere. One of the things that drives me crazy about our cultural emphasis on college and university is the underlying assumption that those are the only places that learning happens.

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I expect DD to attend at least one year of college to give it a try and see if it suits her and her goals.
What if she already knows it doesn't? I've have felt like I'd been put in prison if I'd been expected to go to college after graduation. There was nothing available there that I was interested in, and whole lot that I was very interested in avoiding.

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#161 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 02:55 AM
 
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I have to ask if people actually believe the following points:

1) Higher (post-secondary) education teaches people to think critically.
2) Higher education broadens people's worldviews.
3) A degree proves that you finish what you start.
I just wanted to answer this, because no we won't push post-secondary education on DD.

1) It can, but at the same time it's not a guarantee. Plenty of people come out of college with the same poor level of critical thinking as they went in with. I've seen it too many times.

2) No I don't. What broadens peoples word views isn't post-secondary education, it's the real word education you allow yourself to get. Most of what I learn about life and the world around me has come from allowing myself to accumulate a very diverse group of friends that covers many different religions, cultures, morals and values, carriers, etc. I have a friend who is in med school, I have a friend who spent 4 years on the street working as a prostitute. I have friends that are Catholic, friends that are Muslim, friends that are Athiest, friends that are "religiously and spiritually independent, etc. I have friends from literally all but one continent (guess which ). The rest of what I learned is from my own personal experience, outside of the synthetic "real world" provided by colleges and university. It takes more then a formal education to broaden your world view.

3) It depends on the person. For some it shows they finish what they start or they keep going despite the road blocks that crop up. One friend is in university finally finishing a degree despite financial, bureaucratic, and real life road blocks that cropped up because it's something she truly enjoys doing. For others, it merely shows an inability to take control of their own life. They are there because someone somewhere (usually parents) tell them they need to be there, whether they want to be or not. If I were a business owner, these are not the kind of people I would want working for me.

I have a BSc is Physics. I enjoyed getting my BSc in Physics and currently have a plan to extend it further. I'm occasionally questioning that though because I thoroughly enjoy the job that I have now (well have when parental leave runs out and go back to work). I'm a server at a restaurant. My last job, I was a server at a restaurant. When I started it was a temporary "until I get my degree" thing. When I lost my last job due to the restaurant closing, I actually found myself looking for other jobs in the same field not because I had the experience but because I missed it.

DH has a high school degree and that's it. He works in an art supply store and loves it, and makes a decent amount of money. Most of what he makes though is through contract art jobs he takes on. That is something he loves even more and does even better with it. He dreams of one day being able to live off of being an artist. He's a bit behind the times though, because we would in fact be able to survive off that income alone. I think part of him doesn't want to admit it because of how much he does enjoy the job at the store.

Finally, the highest paying job I ever had was the band I had in high school. Dh hired on as a drummer and was able to leave the job he had at the time that he hated and spend more time with DD just by playing gigs three or four times a week.

If it's what you want, then higher education is good thing. If it's not what you want, then it's not a good thing. If you aren't sure about what you want... Well the idea that you have to be young and free to get a degree is a complete lie. My program at school had a man in his 50's getting a degree because he finally figured out what he wanted to study in university.

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#162 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 03:09 AM
 
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I have a BSc is Physics. I enjoyed getting my BSc in Physics and currently have a plan to extend it further. I'm occasionally questioning that though because I thoroughly enjoy the job that I have now (well have when parental leave runs out and go back to work). I'm a server at a restaurant. My last job, I was a server at a restaurant. When I started it was a temporary "until I get my degree" thing. When I lost my last job due to the restaurant closing, I actually found myself looking for other jobs in the same field not because I had the experience but because I missed it.
I have a close friend who did the same thing, only bartending. She eventually dropped university, as she wasn't really sure what she wanted to study. She kept up bartending for several years, and has now bounced around and done several different things. We don't talk about that stuff so much these days (she lives in Colorado), but I know she's been taking college-level classes again, just because she wants to.

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My program at school had a man in his 50's getting a degree because he finally figured out what he wanted to study in university.
I sometimes think I may go back and study math in some form or another. If so, I wouldn't be surprised if I were in my 50s by the time I got there...

ETA: Thanks for your response. It mirrored a lot of my own thinking, but was also very interesting in its own right.

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#163 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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I haven't read this entire thread so I hope I'm not repeating things.

I won't "push" college but I will "push" the idea that if you don't go to college, then you need some kind of skill.

I have attended college a lot and have several different parttime jobs because of that -- which is just the way I like it. I always enjoyed college. As far as I'm concerned, all my college has allowed me to create the type of job style that exactly suits me. My husband, on the other hand, attended college briefly and didn't really like it much. However, he is a highly skilled and has people constantly asking him to do jobs for them. He also makes a lot more money than I do.

I think it has a lot more to do with an individual's personality. I've taught college level classes and there are definitely students in college who do not belong there. For them it is a total waste of time. Others, however, thrive in a college atmosphere.

I also think that some people need to have some life experience BEFORE they enter college. Many of the best students are "non-traditional" students and they range from ages 22 to 80!! I think when students attend college because their parents want them to but they really have no idea what they want to do with themselves, then it can be a disaster. But sometimes being out in the workforce gives a person a chance to figure out where s/he wants to go and then they go to college with a sense of mission and it's a wonderful experience for them.
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#164 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 04:30 PM
 
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FACT: People with degrees tend to have more favorable job opportunities than non-degreed individuals, regardless of actual school or degree.

FACT: lifetime salaries for degreed people are on average higher than lifetime salaries for people without a degree, even taking the debt created into account.

FACT: many many jobs, especially those with more flexibility, job security, benefits, and portability, are exclusively for those with degrees.

FACT: in economic downturns, folks without degrees are more at risk for job loss/under employment and are generally more adversely affected than folks with degrees.

FACT: most job placement is about who you know, and who knows you. College networks of alumni can be very powerful in finding out about jobs or getting a good shot at an interview.

FACT: Many standard rates and salary calculations are based on experience and degree. A lack of a bachelors degree for many positions can automatically knock four years off of someone's experience - regardless of the degree or field. For example, someone with a HS degree and 10 years HTML coding can only charge the same as someone with a bachelors and 6 years of experience - REGARDLESS of what the degree is in.

FACT: in some industries, there is significant degree inflation - a BS is now required where a HS degree used to be sufficient. An MA or MBA is now required where a BA used to be sufficient. I have worked at several places -non-profits - where they only promote people with master's degrees.

Now, regardless of whether this is right, fair, etc. it is the current state of the US economy/society. And one of my primary responsibilities is to make sure my kids have the skills they need to have as many choices in their lives as possible - and a degree will make their lives easier.

So not only will I be expecting my kids to go to college, unless there is a damned good reason why they are unsuited, I will also push them to go to the best college they can get into. Yes, there are many other ways to get similar experience and skills - and we all know people with degrees who do not have these skills - but college in many ways can be both a short cut to get them, and is easily recognizable credential.

'Course, there is no reason why someone can't take time off, can't do the AA -> BA route, or pay for their education themselves, which I think can make the experience more valuable.

My background/biases
-------
Both dh and I have degrees - he has a degree in computer science and I have a BS in International Affairs and an MA in Anthropology. Both are 100% required and used by us in our work, even though my current job is a departure (web development) from what I originally thought I would do. But we see our degrees not as job training, but rather as ways to train us in how to think.

My dad and mom both had degrees - my dad had presigious education (Cambridge and Harvard MBA), my mom put herself through Pasadena City College, UCLA, and then Baruch college for her Masters (she paid for it all herself, and supported her mother at the same time). Daughter of a farm hand and a nurse from small town, Il., without these degrees, she never would have had the positions or opportunities she had in her life.

DH's parents do not have degrees, and DH's dad found this was significantly held against him when he was 55 years old and looking for a job - even though he had owned/run companies, no one wanted to hire him without a degree (they even said that to him on a couple of occasions). He topped out far before he was ready to retire.

And the friends and connections I and dh both made at our respective colleges have had defining impacts on our lives. I don't really keep in close contact with HS friends, but my college friends are my closest ones.
For all of these reasons, we're pushing them to go. My ILs (bless them!) have already put away college funds for them. Throughout my life, I have run into situations where, if I had a degree, I would have made more money, gotten the promotion, not been turned down for the job, etc.

I've worked for people who were not very smart, but they had the diplomas. It matters.

My biggest regret has always been putting my ex through school instead of going myself. I've spent the rest of my life trying to make a living. I know there are people who make it without college, but it's harder. My ILs have made it easy for my kids to go, and if I can't make them understand how difficult I made my own life by not going, I have not done my job as a parent.

It matters.

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#165 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 05:16 PM
 
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At the time of his death, my dad worked part-time as an English professor at a junior college. He had many non-traditional students...some young, some older, but he talked about how all of them were attending college for their own reasons and how it was so different from the kids who were only there because their parents were pushing them to it and paying for it. Many of his non-traditional students had some big challenges academically and really struggled with the subject material, but he was so impressed with how determined they were and how hard they worked. And frankly it took a lot to impress my dad.

Anyway, I think he may have had some second thoughts then about how he and my mom had pushed all three of us into college so hard and how much pressure they put on us. I know they both meant well. But I think he had a chance to see that when people are driven by their own motivation, they will create their own pressure that is much more positive, and they will learn more from their courses and just in general get so much more out of them.

I will encourage our kids to go to college when they find that motivation in themselves. But I don't believe that type of internal motivation is something that can be forced and end up with a positive result.

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I also think that some people need to have some life experience BEFORE they enter college. Many of the best students are "non-traditional" students and they range from ages 22 to 80!! I think when students attend college because their parents want them to but they really have no idea what they want to do with themselves, then it can be a disaster. But sometimes being out in the workforce gives a person a chance to figure out where s/he wants to go and then they go to college with a sense of mission and it's a wonderful experience for them.

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#166 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by siobhang View Post
FACT: People with degrees tend to have more favorable job opportunities than non-degreed individuals, regardless of actual school or degree.

FACT: lifetime salaries for degreed people are on average higher than lifetime salaries for people without a degree, even taking the debt created into account.

FACT: many many jobs, especially those with more flexibility, job security, benefits, and portability, are exclusively for those with degrees.

FACT: in economic downturns, folks without degrees are more at risk for job loss/under employment and are generally more adversely affected than folks with degrees.

FACT: most job placement is about who you know, and who knows you. College networks of alumni can be very powerful in finding out about jobs or getting a good shot at an interview.

FACT: Many standard rates and salary calculations are based on experience and degree. A lack of a bachelors degree for many positions can automatically knock four years off of someone's experience - regardless of the degree or field. For example, someone with a HS degree and 10 years HTML coding can only charge the same as someone with a bachelors and 6 years of experience - REGARDLESS of what the degree is in.

FACT: in some industries, there is significant degree inflation - a BS is now required where a HS degree used to be sufficient. An MA or MBA is now required where a BA used to be sufficient. I have worked at several places -non-profits - where they only promote people with master's degrees.

Now, regardless of whether this is right, fair, etc. it is the current state of the US economy/society. And one of my primary responsibilities is to make sure my kids have the skills they need to have as many choices in their lives as possible - and a degree will make their lives easier.

So not only will I be expecting my kids to go to college, unless there is a damned good reason why they are unsuited, I will also push them to go to the best college they can get into. Yes, there are many other ways to get similar experience and skills - and we all know people with degrees who do not have these skills - but college in many ways can be both a short cut to get them, and is easily recognizable credential.

'Course, there is no reason why someone can't take time off, can't do the AA -> BA route, or pay for their education themselves, which I think can make the experience more valuable.
: You nicely summed up all the reasons that I believe in college, I was a HS dropout who worked a number of years before realizing that my lack of education was not a good thing.

At one point in my 20's, I was making good money but left that job only to end up making peanuts. Several of years of that made me want to go back to school and I did, eventually getting a graduate degree.

Truth is that aside from when I was teaching junior college, none of my jobs post college really IMO required a degree (even now, I am Executive Director of a non-profit) but I will say that I feel like I have a lot more choices that I ever had when I had no degree.

You mentioned the networking that comes out of school and personally I feel its real, the agency I run has always gotten United Way funding but at a low level. Well this year, when the decision was made to fund our agency, our funding increased over 25%...guess what the person at United Way who made the decision along with their director was a colleague of mine from grad school. I won't get into the details but just the fact that I was the new director and we knew each other gave my agency an in, they had never had in 10 previous years. That is the type of networking that happens in school that I feel doesn't happen in the work place alone.

I know that many folks are successful with a degree yet personally for every one person I know who does well and is successful without a degree, I know many more who are struggling.

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#167 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 05:48 PM
 
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I don't plan on pushing my adult children to do anything in particular.

I feel that aside from doing some fun things at my particular college (I was pre-vet for awhile, at an ag school, so got lots of hands on experience in animal husbandry and care that I never would have had otherwise since none of my relatives live on a farm--make no mistake though, I could have gotten those experiences on a farm though.), that college was largely a waste of time for me as well.

I was a "gifted child" but frankly find academia boring. I enjoy street-level grunt work. It's just my personality. Thus, to be totally blunt, I have had far more interesting and stimulating conversations with the streetwalkers, isolating homeless, developmentally disabled adults and refugees that I have worked with over the years as a grunt level human services worker than I *ever* had with fellow college students or professors. This is not a knock against them, but just that my horizons expand by being with people who are radically different from me. And most of the people and professors I encountered at college were white, low-to-high middle class, culturally christian, "stereotypical american" people. Is there anything *wrong* with being that? Absolutely not. But it didn't "expand my horizons" at all.

All of the people I know who are the most "critical thinking" challenged have college degrees...but that's unsurprising since due to my socioeconomic class and where I live virtually everyone I know has one. So it's certainly not a panacea.

For me, it's all about the personality. It would be important to me, regardless of what my child did post-secondary education, that they be looking at things in a pragmatic and un-romanticized manner. "The Trades" can be a tough, cutthroat business. If one doesn't know how to sell themselves and have some degree of business management skills, especially in the "new economy" one is going to find themselves up crap creek without a paddle. Having a degree today isn't as valuable as it once was for many jobs, so if my kids decide to go for a bachelors, I'd ask them to consider combining it with internships even if that made it a 5 year program, so that they'd have something on their resume other than a B.S. or B.A.

My job/duty as a parent is to offer guidance tailored to my individual child. It's their journey as to whether they incorporate that guidance, how much of it they do, or if they want to make a leap into the unknown.

I'd offer encouragement to any of my kids who wanted to go to college, or into the trades, or off into entrepreneurship, even if I thought that maybe it wasn't the best fit. But if there was anything that I would "push" it would be going into something like the Peace Corps or Americorps or another service organization. My children will benefit immensely from the privledges granted to them by virtue of their class status and appearance, I'd really like to see them "give back" at some point in their lives.
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DH's parents do not have degrees, and DH's dad found this was significantly held against him when he was 55 years old and looking for a job - even though he had owned/run companies, no one wanted to hire him without a degree (they even said that to him on a couple of occasions). He topped out far before he was ready to retire.
My dad had a master's degree. When he was looking for work at an older age (50s) it was his AGE that got held against him.

I know of plenty of older people who work in the trades-- like my neighbor, who owned a construction business . . .he retired when HE was ready. With no degree.

I do agree that a college degree (now a master's) is getting to replace a HS diploma, but there are just no guarantees for a job in any case. I've heard that even teachers trying to get jobs in the Chicago public schools can't find work (and no one wanted to teach there before!). The only ones needed are bilingual, special ed, and science. Thank goodness my parents taught me Spanish.

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#169 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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Just my thought/personal experience:

I have a degree in Health/Psychology. I just recently graduated so I don't have a career yet but getting my college degree was so important to me. Even if I ( for some crazy reason) become a stay at home mom for the rest of my life and never "use" my degree in a job setting, I will still be happy I have the degree. It is something no one can ever take away from me. I do hope that one day I will have a career that allows me to use what I learned in college and be successfull in something, but even if I don't, I would still be happy with the fact that I graduated with a degree. I wouldn't look back and think it was a waste of time because I'm not " using" it.
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#170 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 06:20 PM
 
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Neither of my parents went to college- my Dad had his own welding business and worked his butt off and made close to $100,000 a year in the 80's (which was a LOT back then). My mom slowly but surely worked her way from a minimum wage waitress job to making $50,000/year with great benefits working at Merck.

They were always VERY adamant about us going to college. Everything was in preparation for getting into a good college so we could get a great job.

Well I got into a great college, graduated at the top of my class, racked up $80,000 in debt, and could not find a SINGLE job willing to pay me more than $12/hour...or even a decent full time one for that matter. I doubled majored in psych/criminalistics.

DH went to Penn State, hated school, loved college life, and ended up racking up tons of debt in the 6 years he partied there and never graduated. He now owns a successful tile business making around $100,000/year. He could have never made that much with the degree he was pursuing.

I am a SAHM. After my kids are in school I plan to open up my own business.

So, my point it, unless my kids have a specific career path in mind that they are set on, I am not going to make them think college is the be all end all.

Anyone with me?

My opinion:

College is a waste of time
I could easily learn more/better/with a broader POV on my own
College is a waste of money
It's ritualized
It's a status symbol
It's academically unchallenging
It provides opportunities for things against my beliefs
It separates young adults from the world/community
If not working at the same time, it delays young adults in the work force


Phew. All that being said, I am going to college and I will be highly encouraging my children to go to college. Just not the "regular" way. For example, dual-enrolling during highschool, graduating from highschool early and taking f/t classes at the community college, transferring 2-3yrs of credits to a public state university and getting a basic degree without any debt while working full time in the field of their interest is the plan I would present to my kids. I would also encourage graduate school for sure.

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#171 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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I've worked for people who were not very smart, but they had the diplomas. It matters.
Yes, yes, yes. Having a degree opens so many more doors than a person without one. Higher pay, better mobility, job security. I would be doing my kids a disservice in my opinion, if I didn't stress the importance of college. For every success story about someone making it big without a degree there are waaaaaay more people who cannot get good jobs because of it. There are many things you simply cannot do without a degree, and I don't want to limit my kids. I believe college opens doors, not closes them. Plus, an undergrad degree is almost turning into a high school diploma, everyone must have them even for the most basic of jobs.

And I hear about the argument, "Bill Gates dropped out of college" So? He's a statistical anomaly. Of course some people who work really hard will have success, but without a degree you cannot get into some doors. People see your resume and see no college degree and you are immediately disqualified. It sucks, but thats how it is. I don't want my kids to limit themselves in that way.
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#172 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 07:37 PM
 
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Yes, yes, yes. Having a degree opens so many more doors than a person without one. Higher pay, better mobility, job security. I would be doing my kids a disservice in my opinion, if I didn't stress the importance of college. For every success story about someone making it big without a degree there are waaaaaay more people who cannot get good jobs because of it. There are many things you simply cannot do without a degree, and I don't want to limit my kids. I believe college opens doors, not closes them. Plus, an undergrad degree is almost turning into a high school diploma, everyone must have them even for the most basic of jobs.
Yup. There are quite a few jobs I would have loved to have had, and I would have taken any of them over the 'wow, you're really smart' remarks I collected over the years. You can have a degree and have the choice to not use it, or you can wish you had one and miss out completely.

I have even seen receptionist jobs advertised with a degree required. Seriously? I was desperately hunting for a job, and they wanted someone with a degree to answer the phone? I don't know for a fact if this is true, but a friend of mine who works there told me everyone at Pier I had to have some college under their belts. Really? For retail? Plenty of people are doing retail in high school.

If this is the case, pretty soon you won't even be able to work in fast food without a BA

I was 1 of those people at 20 who was making more money than my friends who were in college. I hooked up with a major corporation, had a union job, and made a good wage.

But, when I got older and they were cutting jobs, I was working in a hell-hole division of the company, and my job prospects were limited. I was used to making a high wage with very few marketable skills. My 'skills' were specialized to 1 company. I was no longer 20, and employers wanted to know why I didn't have a degree. It's kind of like those people who work in the auto industry...they've done that their whole lives, now what do they do? Go out and learn to do something else fast, right?

I had always worked nights in bars as my 2nd job, but again, I was no longer 20, and I wasn't as marketable in that field either because unless the owner met me in person and saw that I still looked young, they saw my age on the app and tossed it.

I learned the hard way that no degree matters a lot, and you can't get complacent thinking your job will always be there for you.

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#173 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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There seems to be a lot of "Changes in the job market = a push for more people to get a degree."

But isn't it possible that causation is the other way? That a push for more people to get a degree has changed the job market?

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#174 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 09:34 PM
 
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i would encourage my kids to do a four year degree in their late teens/early twenties unless they had a burning passion to do something else. i would not push them to enter grad school until they knew for sure what they wanted to do, though.
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#175 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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There seems to be a lot of "Changes in the job market = a push for more people to get a degree."

But isn't it possible that causation is the other way? That a push for more people to get a degree has changed the job market?
I think this is often, but not always, the case.

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#176 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 10:04 PM
 
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I have a degree in Health/Psychology. I just recently graduated so I don't have a career yet but getting my college degree was so important to me. Even if I ( for some crazy reason) become a stay at home mom for the rest of my life and never "use" my degree in a job setting, I will still be happy I have the degree. It is something no one can ever take away from me. I do hope that one day I will have a career that allows me to use what I learned in college and be successfull in something, but even if I don't, I would still be happy with the fact that I graduated with a degree. I wouldn't look back and think it was a waste of time because I'm not " using" it.
Was there a reason for the bolded? I know many people with degrees, including a few with Master's and at least one with a doctorate, who are now SAHMs. I don't think they're crazy or that their reasons for SAH are crazy.

I completely agree that nobody can take your degree away from you. Nobody could give me back those four years if I'd spent them on a campus, either. It works both ways, depending on a person's personality.

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#177 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Was there a reason for the bolded? I know many people with degrees, including a few with Master's and at least one with a doctorate, who are now SAHMs. I don't think they're crazy or that their reasons for SAH are crazy.

I completely agree that nobody can take your degree away from you. Nobody could give me back those four years if I'd spent them on a campus, either. It works both ways, depending on a person's personality.

I didn't bold it?

I certainly didn't meant that SAHM's are "crazy," but I see it may come across like that.. i jut meant that if I DID decide to stay at home which is against what I THINK will happen, then it would be crazy for ME.

Hope that makes sense.. didn't mean to offend anyone!
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#178 of 179 Old 02-08-2009, 10:46 PM
 
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I didn't bold it?

I certainly didn't meant that SAHM's are "crazy," but I see it may come across like that.. i jut meant that if I DID decide to stay at home which is against what I THINK will happen, then it would be crazy for ME.

Hope that makes sense.. didn't mean to offend anyone!
Sorry - I wasn't clear. I bolded it in the quote, to make it clear what part of your post I was referring to.

Fair enough. I will mention, though, that I've known a lot of moms who ended up WOH or SAH, once they're children arrived, even though they'd believed prior to the birth that they'd do the other. It's not crazy to change your mind. Children have a way of causing people to re-evaluate their lives.

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#179 of 179 Old 02-09-2009, 12:29 AM
 
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Sorry - I wasn't clear. I bolded it in the quote, to make it clear what part of your post I was referring to.

Fair enough. I will mention, though, that I've known a lot of moms who ended up WOH or SAH, once they're children arrived, even though they'd believed prior to the birth that they'd do the other. It's not crazy to change your mind. Children have a way of causing people to re-evaluate their lives.
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