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Attachment parenting and summer camp

8K views 147 replies 67 participants last post by  Evan&Anna's_Mom 
#1 ·
I am desperate for somebody to agree with me. Nobody agreed with me in another thread so I am starting this one.

Isn't it unnatural for a camp that accepts 7-year-olds to prohibit the 7-year-old and the parent to talk to each other by telephone for 10 days?

My daughter is not 7, she is 11. And she found this most wonderful perfect horseback riding camp. We visited it, we loved it, but they have a policy against telephone contact with a parent. They say it makes children more homesick. And, the logistics of letting 100 kids call their parents every day would be nightmarish.

I don't want to talk to her for hours, I just want to hear her every day say, I am fine mom, I am happy, a little homesick, but I had a great time today kayaking. Love you, bye.

The kids are allowed to write letters and you can write letters to them. We already put the deposit down and my daughter is dying to go, so I am going to let her go.

It just feels so unnatural, not to be able to talk to your own child. I thought people here, who nurse their children and practice attachment parenting, and are SAHM (I am a working mom), would understand how I feel. I am so dying to think that something horrible would happen and I couldn't be there for my only child.

Help, I need your comments even if you disagree with me.
 
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#102 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by churndash View Post

You seem deeply distressed at the prospect of her attending this camp, and it's clear your daughter has picked up on that. I wonder if it's such a good idea to attend now...she might spend the whole week worrying about you worrying about her and not have much fun.
Yes. That's what I was trying to say, but not doing it well, in my post. At a certain point I think that we tip the balance with our own needs, and kids pick up on it. A general comment-not saying op you're necessarily doing this, although the post by your dd makes me wonder a bit. Maybe just something to think about?
 
#105 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
I am desperate for somebody to agree with me. Nobody agreed with me in another thread so I am starting this one.

Isn't it unnatural for a camp that accepts 7-year-olds to prohibit the 7-year-old and the parent to talk to each other by telephone for 10 days?

My daughter is not 7, she is 11. And she found this most wonderful perfect horseback riding camp. We visited it, we loved it, but they have a policy against telephone contact with a parent. They say it makes children more homesick. And, the logistics of letting 100 kids call their parents every day would be nightmarish.

I don't want to talk to her for hours, I just want to hear her every day say, I am fine mom, I am happy, a little homesick, but I had a great time today kayaking. Love you, bye.

The kids are allowed to write letters and you can write letters to them. We already put the deposit down and my daughter is dying to go, so I am going to let her go.

It just feels so unnatural, not to be able to talk to your own child. I thought people here, who nurse their children and practice attachment parenting, and are SAHM (I am a working mom), would understand how I feel. I am so dying to think that something horrible would happen and I couldn't be there for my only child.

Help, I need your comments even if you disagree with me.

Haven't read other replies, but I completely agree with you.

There is something *not right* with not allowing the child to call home.

Wasn't there a scary movie or something like this? No, seriously. There was a movie I saw where the kids were treated really horrible and they weren't allowed to phone home. They wrote letters asking for help, but the camp counselors never mailed them. I don't know...but I know I saw it before.

What if she had a problem with a counselor--picking on her or whatever--and they wouldn't let her phone home, even for an emergency? What if a boy was messing with her and you were the only one she trusted to talk to? The list is endless.

The movie aside, I just do not think it's a good idea. At all. No way. Nope. I would never be away from my kid and w/o communication. Either arm your daughter with a cell phone or keep her home. (Honestly, I would keep her home and let her "hate" me for how ever long she needed to!). I'm having an anxiety attack thinking about not being allowed to see/talk to my kid for x-amount of days.
 
#106 ·
MayBaby, camps that have a no phone policy are also willing to allow contact with the parents when there is an emergency.

Honestly I am surprised by the number of people here who think it is unnatural for someone to not talk to their parent for ten days. You don't have to talk to your parents every single day to love them, or to miss them when your away from them. I do think it's become a bit of a problem in our society. I can understand that a 7 year old may very well not be ready, but once you get to be a teen most are ready and capable of being away from their parents and not having phone contact every night before bed with out any ill effects. If it were unnatural, then the children wouldn't naturally reach a point where they were able or even desired such an experience. Since they do eventually reach that point, unless there is an attachment issue, it is natural.
 
#108 ·
Hi Ruth, it sounds like you and your daughter have a wonderful relationship. I chuckled when you wrote

"We are very attached to our daughter and her thoughts at the present is never to live anywhere than with us. I KNOW that will not happen. "You are going to college with me to make sure I don't drink, right mom"? I chuckle when she says that because she is much to independent to really mean that she is taking me with her to college when she turns 18.
I don't want to nurse her forever (although for a while there, I thought she would.)"

I think it is so great that you guys are able to discuss things. She wants to go to this fabulous camp, you want her to go, and she is going to go - but a no phone policy, sounds so foreign to your relationship, that it is hard to get your head around it.

I really hope you guys are able to update us after the camp and let us know how it all went. Never having been to camp before I asked a few people the other day if they had gone (they are now in there early twenties). They had all gone, all had a great time, and they all had access to a phone during certain time frames each evening if they wanted to use it. These camps would have been in British Columbia, Canada. Just thought it was interesting.

Lesley
 
#109 ·
I wonder if some of us responding to this thread are just old-fashioned. My parents were born in the 1930's, so when they were growing up, telephone contact, particularly with someone far away, was special and unusual. When I was growing up, they primarily communicated with their own parents by mail, calling them on the telephone only rarely.

When I went camping with the Girl Scouts in the early 1980's, it wouldn't even have occurred to us to call our parents on the telephone. When we were away from our parents, we were used to being out of contact with them.

When I went to England with the Girl Scouts at 15 (in 1985), I didn't call them once during the entire three weeks I was gone, and they didn't expect me to. I think some of the other girls did call their parents, because I remember feeding coins into a pay phone to keep someone's call going!

I left my parents' house more than 20 years ago, and since then, have normally spoken with my parents on the phone every 2-6 weeks.

The summer camp phenomenon in the USA, with all of its assorted traditions, has been around for much longer than regular telephone contact has been an expected part of life. I imagine that one of the reasons phone contact during camp isn't the norm is for historical reasons, which have now become traditions that are perceived as "normal" and "natural" by people who are part of the camp world.
 
#110 ·
I thonk its great that you are letting your daughter go despite your reservations about the no contact. You obviously have her best interests at heart instead of your own, and thats really hard to do.

It does not seem unnatural,to me, to not have contact with my son when he goes to camp. I feel confident in his, and the camp's, ability to contact me if there is a problem.

I say that not to imply that your worry is somehow wrong or bad, but to say that everyone is different and what may seem unnatural to some may be perfectly accepatable to others. To imply otherwise is imo, judgmental.

My ds has gone to camp since he was 8, which according to many people here is entirely too young and he can't possibly be loved or cared for by me because I can go three weeks without talking to him. I could go three weeks without talking to my husband, too... none of it has to do with teaching independence. Its just part of an experience that ds has chosen to be a part of. thats ok with me.

While it may not seem right or "natural" to some, its wrong to assume that those that are fine with it are somehow not normal and don't have good, strong relationships with their children or spouses. Different strokes for different folks....some kids are ready for camp at 7.. some are never ready.. nobody is right or wrong, you know?
 
#111 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by MayBaby2007 View Post
Haven't read other replies, but I completely agree with you.

There is something *not right* with not allowing the child to call home.

Wasn't there a scary movie or something like this? No, seriously. There was a movie I saw where the kids were treated really horrible and they weren't allowed to phone home. They wrote letters asking for help, but the camp counselors never mailed them. I don't know...but I know I saw it before.

What if she had a problem with a counselor--picking on her or whatever--and they wouldn't let her phone home, even for an emergency? What if a boy was messing with her and you were the only one she trusted to talk to? The list is endless.

The movie aside, I just do not think it's a good idea. At all. No way. Nope. I would never be away from my kid and w/o communication. Either arm your daughter with a cell phone or keep her home. (Honestly, I would keep her home and let her "hate" me for how ever long she needed to!). I'm having an anxiety attack thinking about not being allowed to see/talk to my kid for x-amount of days.
Murdering all the campers is bad for business, honest.
 
#112 ·
I have been watching this thread with great interest. My 7 year old is going to Girl Scout sleep away camp for 7 days this summer (she will be almost 8 when she goes). But her camp is for girls who finished first or second grade this school year.

I would never, ever have suggested this camp to her, but she read about it herself in the Girl Scout camp brochure (it's the same brochure that has the day camps in it, which is what I was looking at LOL!!!). Ever since then, she has been really passionate about going. I had deep reservations at first. She is a picky eater, has never been particularly self sufficient and she has sensory issues. But for some reason this camp has become very important to her.

So I pointed out to her some issues she might encounter (taking care of her own hair, food she is unfamiliar with) and rather than being daunted, she took these as challenges. She did research on what types of food would be at camp (talked to older scouts who had been to this camp) and has pushed herself to try new foods. She has been determined to learn to do things for herself that she has always been content previously for me to do for her. She made a daily journal on the computer that she printed out and decorated so that she would be able to write down her thoughts and experiences to share with us when she gets home. Honestly, I am enormously proud of how much she has grown already just at the prospect of wanting to go to this camp.

All the while I had my reservations, but ultimately it came down to this, which a PP said very well.

Quote:
I wanted to give her the gift of feeling believed in by me.
This. For me to say to her, I don't think you can do this thing that is very important to you because you are not capable of handling it (when clearly SHE does think she is capable of it), well I can't imagine the emotional devastation she would feel. And ultimately, I decided it was much better for her to try this and have even a not necessarily spectacular experience than for me to send her the message that this is not something that she is capable of.
 
#113 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by skueppers View Post
I wonder if some of us responding to this thread are just old-fashioned. My parents were born in the 1930's, so when they were growing up, telephone contact, particularly with someone far away, was special and unusual. When I was growing up, they primarily communicated with their own parents by mail, calling them on the telephone only rarely.

When I went camping with the Girl Scouts in the early 1980's, it wouldn't even have occurred to us to call our parents on the telephone. When we were away from our parents, we were used to being out of contact with them.

When I went to England with the Girl Scouts at 15 (in 1985), I didn't call them once during the entire three weeks I was gone, and they didn't expect me to. I think some of the other girls did call their parents, because I remember feeding coins into a pay phone to keep someone's call going!

I left my parents' house more than 20 years ago, and since then, have normally spoken with my parents on the phone every 2-6 weeks.

The summer camp phenomenon in the USA, with all of its assorted traditions, has been around for much longer than regular telephone contact has been an expected part of life. I imagine that one of the reasons phone contact during camp isn't the norm is for historical reasons, which have now become traditions that are perceived as "normal" and "natural" by people who are part of the camp world.
I was thinking this too-- my parents are rather younger than yours, but I'm only six years younger than you are. It may or may not be "unreasonable" to disallow campers from calling home, but "unnatural" isn't the right word-- to me, the technology that allows cheap and frequent phone contact is what is unnatural, strictly speaking!
 
#114 ·
p.s. egoldber I just saw your location. If the camp happens to be Potomac Woods, I went there when I was seven-almost-eight for a week-- no phone calls home-- and when my co-sleeping baby-wearing parents picked me up, the first thing I said to them was, "Hi! Can I stay another week?"
 
#115 ·
Going back to read the whole thread, but wanted to post while my toddler was quiet.

I went to sleep away camp as a child, and I'm soooo glad phone contact was not allowed.

There were way too many kids to manage it, we all wanted to call home, and it made the letters so much more special.
 
#117 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
Wow, I'm so surprised that a no-phone policy is normal.

I'm with you, even if I am a lone voice. I think it is most odd to deny kids the use of a phone. And I'm wondering how that works anyway in this day and age of cellphones.

My kids have no interest in going away to camps, and I have no interest in sending them. Our summers are spent together, and camp is just not part of my cultural expectation for them. But if and when they decide to go, I'd expect them to take a phone and be allowed to call home if they wished to. Nothing to do with what I want as a parent, but I do think that they should be allowed that contact if they wish.

But if your dd is OK with it, I guess it's not a problem right now. In principle, though, I"m with you!


I wholeheartedly agree with this post.
Here in Norway camp is not a part of most kids summer. MAYBE some kids go to scoutcamp or something, but that last maybe 5-6 days at the most, and the kids are most likely teens. Sending a 7 YO away for weeks? Even months?? I have never even heard of that here in Norway.

Our summers are spent together, too. I can`t even imagine why I would want to send my son to camp for weeks on end. They spend so much time in school during the schoolyear, so sending him away for most of summer is not even an option. And even though I`m seen as pretty odd around here, AP-mama and all that hippiestuff I do
, I would think that every single parent I know here in Norway would agree with me on this.

And I am so, sooo agreeing with Britishmum about being able to call, when they are away. I would not at all accept sending him to a place where he wasn`t allowed to call if he wanted to talk to me. No way.
 
#118 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post

I'm with you, even if I am a lone voice. I think it is most odd to deny kids the use of a phone. And I'm wondering how that works anyway in this day and age of cellphones.

In my experience, the way this happens is that the camp requests that children do not bring electronic equipment from home to camp. This includes electronic hand held games, pagers and cell phones. I personally think it's more of a problem that we expect our children to have access to these electronic communication devices, while presumably they are having a wonderful, nature based camp experience. Am I the only one who sees the disconnect here?
 
#122 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
Murdering all the campers is bad for business, honest.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
I think it is most odd to deny kids the use of a phone. And I'm wondering how that works anyway in this day and age of cellphones.
A lot of camps in North America are located in places with no or limited cellphone reception.

Personally, as a Canadian, one of the things that keeps me sane is getting away from the constant connectedness once in a while by going backwoods camping. Although it is diminishing, we do have lots of areas that are not accessible by road, nor are they reachable by cellphone. And you can bet that they don't have payphones, either. A lot of the camps here do multi-day trips (canoeing, hiking, etc.) into such areas. Usually the trips start at four days for the youngest campers, and go up to several weeks for young teens.

I think your example of a payphone at camp is a function of geography -- small, densely-populated areas vs. large, sparsely populated areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
I am desperate for somebody to agree with me. Nobody agreed with me in another thread so I am starting this one.
[...]
Help, I need your comments even if you disagree with me.
Ruth, if I can take it back to your OP for a moment, why are you desperate for someone to agree with you? What purpose does that serve? If lots of people agree with you, are you going to pull your daughter from the camp? Will it make you feel better?

I hope you find a solution that works for you and your daughter.
 
#123 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by karne View Post
In my experience, the way this happens is that the camp requests that children do not bring electronic equipment from home to camp. This includes electronic hand held games, pagers and cell phones. I personally think it's more of a problem that we expect our children to have access to these electronic communication devices, while presumably they are having a wonderful, nature based camp experience. Am I the only one who sees the disconnect here?
I see the disconnect. It makes about as much sense as bringing a generator and a bunch of plug in amenities camping with you and your family (and yes there are people that do that). I mean, is it really necissary for most people to bring a hair dryer or an outdoor heater camping?

And yeah, when we go camping as a family, it means no electricity except in the form of double A batteries for the flashlight so DH doesn't step on me when he gets up to go to the bathroom (happened once
)
 
#124 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
I see the disconnect. It makes about as much sense as bringing a generator and a bunch of plug in amenities camping with you and your family (and yes there are people that do that). I mean, is it really necissary for most people to bring a hair dryer or an outdoor heater camping?

And yeah, when we go camping as a family, it means no electricity except in the form of double A batteries for the flashlight so DH doesn't step on me when he gets up to go to the bathroom (happened once
)
I see the disconnect,too, but not everyone does.. its all in the perception and your experiences..

I lived in a campground for 3 or 4 summers. When I think of camping, i do NOT think of a campground. Anywhere with indoor plumbing and showers is not camping in my book...but for some, thats roughing it. So when ds is at camp, he spends most of his time actually away from camp, hiking, canoeing etc. There are no motorized boats, the cabins are exttremely primative and as the kids get older they actually stay in lean-tos . (when they're not on the top of a mountain somewhere). Anything less than that, for our lifestyle and how we live...well, he may as well stay at home. The cell phone policy doesn't matter cuz they don't work anyway.. but the kids are allowed to bring a gameboy or an ipod.... most don't have time to use them anyway.

I'm glad Ruth is letting her dd go to camp and i understand the worry...
 
#125 ·
I always feel the agree that this thread sort of turned into a pile-on, but I just wanted to add my two cents.

I went to camp for 4 years, starting when I was 10, and the only time I was ever homesick would be after my parents visited. I went for 7 weeks, and parents were allowed up on Sundays and mine would make the 9 hour (each way!) drive to see us once or twice a year. And even though I was having a great time and rarely gave them a second thought, seeing them would make me miss home, and my cat, and my friends. It would normally take a day or two to recover. I agree that contact home usually makes things worse.

Secondly, I used to work in the main office of a camp, and if kids are homesick enough, we'd let them call. To be totally honest, I think being allowed to do something that was against the rules was really what would make them happy and secure at camp! Seriously. They'd go off so smug, promising not to tell other campers they had called, and we'd never hear homesickness again from them (though their parents would be calling 3x a day for the rest of the session...).

Thirdly, I want to say that my sister was one of those 7 year old campers (actually, she turned 7 a few weeks into it camp her first year... they let her go at 6 because I was going too) and she had an absolute BLAST. Went for 10 years, and is still best friends with so many of her camp friends. When they're ready really depends on the kid: I would have been a wreck at 7! Plus, the youngest campers are soooo spoiled by all the older campers. I don't think my sister walked anywhere that first summer: she was always being carried by one of the CITs, having her hair done by an older camper, people would make her little things in Arts and Crafts because she was so cute. It was kind of a blow to her the next year when she was displaced as the youngest, cutest camper! I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I've had this conversation with more than one person, and I can see why you'd be horrified at a kid that young being sent off for 7 weeks, but I promise my sister was not some neglected, emotionally void, abandoned child: she BEGGED to go, and knew EXACTLY what she wanted, and it really worked out for her.

Finally, I want to say that camp is such a great experience. I didn't love it, but I learned so much: not just practical stuff (I was the only one at the end of the year competition who could start a campfire with only a single log that had been soaked in water for 3 days and a book of matches, in under 10 minutes! I remain confident that at some point in my life, this skill will come in handy...) but also about myself, and emotional resources. I met kids from all over the country, and there were even some international campers. Though camp wasn't as meaningful to me as it was to my sister, thanks to the wonders of Facebook I've gotten back in touch with tons of people from camp, and it's such a great shared experience.
 
#126 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
I would expect my husband to all ready be independant. I'm not going to marry someone if they can't take care of themselves.

And as I pointed out (in the other thread I believe), sometimes a husband and wife do need to be seperated from each other with limited contact for various reasons. When DH spent six months working out of town, we didn't contact each other every single day.
Right. Both I and my husband have already gone through our "learning to be independent humans" phase of life, which is necessary to grow into a mature adult.

Both I and my husband are in/have been in jobs that require business travel. Until we had the child, neither of us felt it was necessary to call home every night while we were on the trip. My husband was in Japan for two weeks back at the end of the 1990s, and since it was so expensive to call and they were so overwhelmed with work, he called once during those two weeks.

Now with le kid, we do try to call home before his bedtime while on a business trip--but that's for the kid, not for the spouse. His needs are different from ours.
 
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