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#1 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I had this really coherent, long post written out and something funky happened and its gone.....grrrr....so, in brief, I am wondering about an issue that's come up AGAIN with my parents.

Ever since I was young, my mom has micromanaged my pero=sonal hygiene, grooming, etc. She had lots of rules about what I could and could not wear and even monitored how I brushed my teeth until well into my mid teens. By monitor I mean she would make me open my mouth so she could check and see if they were clean. She would do this in front of other people. At my 10th grade orchestra concert she sent someone on stage to tell me to close my legs because she could see my vagina from her seat. i'm very sure she could NOT....I was wearing underwear and good orchestra posture means my legs weren't exactly spread eagle. Anyway, that's neither here nor there....but she is still doing it and has been doing it again since I've been staying with her the last few days. I'm wondering if it's me being oversensitive.

I beleive I was molested when I was aboput 3, and from my foggy memories it happened in my own home at night. I'm just worred about my ds, but i don't trust myself enough to know when I'm being overboard or overly critical. It just gives me a "ick" feeling the way my mom is so .....aware... of my private body parts.

Example: I get dressed and come out wearing a cami and jeans. just a regular cami with a built in bra, covers my belly, but i guess from bf-ing my boobs kind of sag in it. My mom says, inf ront of my father, "don't walk around like that in front of my husband. Show some respect for your father. I can see your nipples." my dad chimes in," woah, your nipples are hard as rocks. and i can see your stomach." And my mom says, "bend over so we can see if it's long enough."

Would that exchange make you uncomfortable? I find it humiliating. this is not an outfit to go out in, just something I threw on to grab breakfast. Actually I think I slept in the top the ngiht before.

Or.....before leaving the house, my mom says, "turn around so I can see something." i turn around, and she says to my dad, "look....can't you see her underpants through that skirt? That looks like a thong." And insists that i change underwear.

or buys me underpants/bras, unsolicited, and makes me try them on in front of her "to see if they fit". She even bought my FRIEND underpants because she claimed the ones she was wearing didn't fit properly and she could see them through her clothes. I was beyond embarrassed. Amazingly, the friend didn't take offense.

my father tells me to humor her.

When I got back together with my dh last time, my mom asked me if we were having oral or anal sex. Before we got together, when I was just taking ds for a visit, my dad called me on the phone and quezzed me about where I was sleeping (i.e. in the same bed) and then asked me point blank whether I was having sex with him again. This was my HUSBAND.

all of these examples have taken place in the last several months.

Then this weekend, ds was on the potty and my dad walked by and said, "your little ding ding is sticking straight up. don't you know you need to point it down?" I know it was a harmless comment, but it set me on edge. Am i overreacting?

What do you all think? Are most mothers this intimate with their adult daughters?

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#2 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:35 AM
 
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OMG. No, mama. This is NOT normal. At all.

I assume you are staying there because you have to. Try to find a place ASAP (even a shelter at this point). If you must stay there, do NOT let your son out of your sight. Sleep with him. Do NOT let your parents near him when he's on the potty.

I'm so sorry you're having to put up with this and have been for years! If you have a friend or other relative you can stay with, please call them tonight and see if you can stay there.

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#3 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:37 AM
 
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no, that stuff is not normal. i think if things are setting off concerns for you, it is time to move on. i remember reading a number of your posts, and i feel for you in your situation. i agree with the PP, that a shelter sounds like a much better place for you at this point. somewhere you are treated with respect and impartiality. you will never change your parents, and if they hurt you they will hurt your child(ren).

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#4 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Not, not normal mama. I'm so sorry. This is abuse. Please be safe, and keep your son safe.
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#5 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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I don't know about "most mothers," but from what you've written I believe yours is either oblivious to your discomfort or she's taking some kind of pleasure from making you uncomfortable. Because this behavior is making you feel like this, then it is not acceptable. Period. Go with your gut on this.
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#6 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Wow. It would be one thing if you were cool with this sort of... familiarity. But you aren't. No I don't think you are overreacting. I got the creeps just reading it. Esp the questions about your sex life. Jeez!

Hugs to you mama.

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#7 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:39 AM
 
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To answer you question about intimacy: I would have an intimate relationship with dd as long as she was comfy and it wasn't going overboard. If she asked me an opinion "Mom, can you see my panty line? Should I change?" I'd respond honestly. I may suggest she change clothes w/o her asking if I felt it didn't flatter her....but I would never ever point out her underwear/breasts to her father and ask his opinion like that. The comment about your father saying your nipples were straight out? OMFG! No way!
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#8 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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I think the truest measure of whether something or someone is out of line is how you feel about it. Your parents' comments made you uncomfortable..... therefore, you have the right to ask them and expect them to stop. Period.

It doesn't matter if what makes you uncomfortable is more or less than what makes someone else uncomfortable. All that matters is when your uncomfortable "line" is crossed, it's crossed, and everyone else needs to back off.

Although, if boundaries have always been blurred in your family, that may be easier said than done.

Comments like these have never been made in my family (although we're not open at all about this kind of stuff), and I would be horrified if I were in your shoes. It sounds like there's a lot going on underneath the surface in your family.

I wish you peace.

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#9 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:47 AM
 
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How long until you get to your own place? Is that still going to happen?

It does sound like they have some unhealthy fixation on sexual stuff. Just keep your distance as much as possible until you get to the new place.

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#10 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:50 AM
 
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woah!!!! not normal at all. however if extremely old fashioned i can see this being normal on their part. however the way they say them is soooo icky. its not even abnormal. its beyond that.

- sending a 3rd party to tell you on stage that ur vagina was showing.

- woah, your nipples are hard as rocks

- mom asked me if we were having oral or anal sex

: mama. my heart breaks for you to go thru ur whole childhood like that and even now. OMG!!!! it is soooo creepy.

it is sooo not healthy for you to live there - still dealing with all those comments. let alone your son. esp. dealing with broken marriage and pregnancy hormones.

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#11 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post
How long until you get to your own place? Is that still going to happen?

It does sound like they have some unhealthy fixation on sexual stuff. Just keep your distance as much as possible until you get to the new place.
We are going to move in sometime this coming weekend, hopefully. I'm just at a point where I'm too tired to deal with all the ridiculousness....my mom keeps saying I need to leave ds in his room all night which I refuse to do in this house. I'm tempted to telll her I'm doing it and then stay up to see what happens.....she used to "make rounds" as she called it in the middle of the night when I was a kid, to see what everyone was doing. um, sleeping??? it just bothers me. I want to know what the REAL deal is.

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#12 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:51 AM
 
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Um, NO, that is NOT normal! How much longer do you have to stay there?

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#13 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 12:58 AM
 
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No not normal, and obviously you are uncomfortable with it, I would trust your instincts, maybe it is innocent and all, but if it puts you on edge like that it's still wrong.
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#14 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:06 AM
 
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Read this

http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

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#15 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:06 AM
 
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It just gives me a "ick" feeling the way my mom is so .....aware... of my private body parts.
umm...yeah - so it should.

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Would that exchange make you uncomfortable?
Uncomfortable?? It would make me furious - but, yeah - I'd also be uncomfortable.

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Or.....before leaving the house, my mom says, "turn around so I can see something." i turn around, and she says to my dad, "look....can't you see her underpants through that skirt? That looks like a thong." And insists that i change underwear.
Totally, totally, totally out of line.

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or buys me underpants/bras, unsolicited, and makes me try them on in front of her "to see if they fit".
Don't. She can't make you, unless she physically forces you, in which case you should call the police and charge her with assault. And, yes - I'm serious.

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When I got back together with my dh last time, my mom asked me if we were having oral or anal sex. Before we got together, when I was just taking ds for a visit, my dad called me on the phone and quezzed me about where I was sleeping (i.e. in the same bed) and then asked me point blank whether I was having sex with him again. This was my HUSBAND.
Totally and utterly not any of their business. Tell them so - clearly.

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Then this weekend, ds was on the potty and my dad walked by and said, "your little ding ding is sticking straight up. don't you know you need to point it down?" I know it was a harmless comment, but it set me on edge. Am i overreacting?
It's not a harmless comment. It's totally inappropriate.

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What do you all think? Are most mothers this intimate with their adult daughters?
Hell, no! If my mother behaved like that with me, I'd go ape - not that she would. I'm of the opinion that my bff's mom has serious boundary issues...and she wouldn't even come close to this level of privacy invasion.

Mama...I get posters mixed up sometimes, but aren't you the same one whose father had your income tax refund deposited into his own account?

The story you describe from 10th grade is grotesque...absolutely grotesque. Your mom has been messing with your sexuality for a long time, to a degree that I consider sexually abusive, whether you were physically molested or not.

Honestly, your parents are really sick, and if you weren't used to it, you wouldn't even be asking us about this. I know your life is a mess right now, but get out. Whatever it takes, get out.

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#16 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:08 AM
 
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Um no. So Sorry you have to deal with this along with all the other stuff going on in your life! Sheesh!

I just got all the hairs on my arms and neck stand up reading your post- major No-No- Flags went off I'm so sorry.

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#17 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:13 AM
 
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woah!!!! not normal at all. however if extremely old fashioned i can see this being normal on their part. however the way they say them is soooo icky. its not even abnormal. its beyond that.
Totally.

I could see a very old-fashioned parent telling their daughter to change their underwear or that a shirt was indecent...but calling your dad's attention to the state of your nipples?? Asking your dad's opinion on whether or not your underwear is visible?? I wouldn't tolerate most of this kind of thing from dh, let alone from my parents!!

Eeww...the more I think about this, the more it's creeping me out. This is just...obscene...

Quote:
- sending a 3rd party to tell you on stage that ur vagina was showing.

- woah, your nipples are hard as rocks

- mom asked me if we were having oral or anal sex
Yeah - all so far outside anything resembling a healthy boundary that I have no words for it.

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: mama. my heart breaks for you to go thru ur whole childhood like that and even now. OMG!!!! it is soooo creepy.
Yeah



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it is sooo not healthy for you to live there - still dealing with all those comments. let alone your son. esp. dealing with broken marriage and pregnancy hormones.
I agree completely.

Oh, mama - get out of there. These people are horribly toxic and destructive.

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#18 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:14 AM
 
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To me, that's a little extreme. My mother and I have a different relationship, she was never that strict about my clothes. Personally, I can't wait to have the little girl who wears her tutu, boots, tights, and carries a wand for over a week straight, whatever her heats desire

But, my mom once saw my drawer full of thongs, she was horrified and thought I stripped Gawd, I'm not comfortable dancing fully clothed in front of people let alone naked: I had to reassure her I wasn't Sometimes I think moms worry a lot about the integrity of their daughters because well, we're their daughters, kwim? She may see you as a better version of her, you doing all of the things she wished she had done, succeed above all of her expectations Or SHE knows how SHE was when SHE was your age, thinks twice about what she had done, and hopes you don't maker her mistakes Or yet another, her mom was just as strict and for some reason she feels the need to uphold that level of "morality" (age and period go into play)

Age might play a role in your mother's reaction about clothing. Can I be so bold as to ask your mother's age? Generally, the older the woman the more modest and strict she is about what someone wears, IME.

As for the molestation.... To think something like that may have happened is not a good feeling and I hope with all of my heart you find peace and healing. It wasn't your fault and you know your children will be safe from harms way.

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#19 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:21 AM
 
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Ug, that sounds EXACTLY like my aunt. She used to yell at me for the way I peed in the toilet Yes, she watched to make sure we did it right, WTF?! My cousins are so dear to me, we literally grew up like siblings with me spending most of my time with them, it really makes me hate my aunt.

And thinking through it all again, it is such a toxic relationship Among my cousins, I do know there was sexual abuse

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#20 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Age might play a role in your mother's reaction about clothing. Can I be so bold as to ask your mother's age? Generally, the older the woman the more modest and strict she is about what someone wears, IME.

As for the molestation.... To think something like that may have happened is not a good feeling and I hope with all of my heart you find peace and healing. It wasn't your fault and you know your children will be safe from harms way.
My mom will be 60 this year. They are very straightlaced, "uptight" (for lack of a better word) people. But my mom is OBSESSED with undergarments and how people look in them, and whether they fit right. Never mind that she dressed me inn outdated clothes, forced me to go to school wearing a little girl's slip and tights--no bra-- when I was 12 and 13 years old to get humiliated in the locker rooms at school. It's all about the underwear. She will still tell me to pull up my dress so she can see how my underwear fits, and I'm 22.

She comments all the time on how she can see people's panties under their clothes, or their nipples, or their bra wasn't the right kind. i have never known anyone who cared as much as she does about those things.

I'm sure my friend was astounded to have someone else's mother give her granny panties and basically imply that she was immodest.

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#21 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:42 AM
 
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My mom will be 60 this year. They are very straightlaced, "uptight" (for lack of a better word) people. But my mom is OBSESSED with undergarments and how people look in them, and whether they fit right. Never mind that she dressed me inn outdated clothes, forced me to go to school wearing a little girl's slip and tights--no bra-- when I was 12 and 13 years old to get humiliated in the locker rooms at school. It's all about the underwear. She will still tell me to pull up my dress so she can see how my underwear fits, and I'm 22.
If you're doing this, stop now. I know you have a problem, because this is an established pattern, but your mom is way outside normal boundaries. How your underwear fits is absolutely none of her business. It's none of her business whether or not you have any on!

Quote:
She comments all the time on how she can see people's panties under their clothes, or their nipples, or their bra wasn't the right kind. i have never known anyone who cared as much as she does about those things.
Think about this for a second. If you were talking about a man, most people would probably be assuming he was some kind of sexual predator. Honestly...the more you say about your mother, the more she creeps me out.

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I'm sure my friend was astounded to have someone else's mother give her granny panties and basically imply that she was immodest.
umm...if that had been me, I may or may not have said anything to you, but I'd have tried hard to totally avoid your mom after that...and I wouldn't have ever set foot in your house again.

And, none of this screams "uptight and in her 60s". It screams "creepy". I'm beginning to realize that I have a lot of gender assumptions in my makeup that I didn't know were there, because if this was a man we were talking about, I'd have no doubt that he's a sexual predator, yet I'm hesitant to say that about your mom.

Mind you, some of your dad's comments are equally creepy, and the fact that he has presumably stood by all these years while your mom sexually violated you doesn't say much for him, either.

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#22 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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umm...if that had been me, I may or may not have said anything to you, but I'd have tried hard to totally avoid your mom after that...and I wouldn't have ever set foot in your house again.
Well, my mom has this friend's family convinced that I need help that can only be gotten from her (my mom). So they actually encouraged me not to mvoe away from her, because she "is looking out for me." Although....my friend has not said a whole lot to me since that incident happened. Before that, though, they were sold. now, maybe they're not so sure.

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#23 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:55 AM
 
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Hi, waiting2bemommy. I'm so sorry you are enduring this.

Your parents are sexually and emotionally abusive and I implore you with every bone in my body to never, ever, ever leave them alone with your child. Your mother's insistence that you leave your son to sleep alone, combined with her history of "making rounds" (like a prison guard?) at night is especially disturbing. That and your parents' comments about your body and your sex life and just...ugh, just all of it. ALL of it is bad enough on its own, but taken together it is absolutely horrifying.

Take your child and get out of there as soon as humanly possible. A women's shelter would be a much better environment for your child. I am completely serious when I say I fear for his sexual and mental safety if he has to spend another night with your parents.

I'm so, so sorry. Please know that this is NOT normal, this is NOT your fault, your parents ARE abusive and sound extremely sick, to say the least. Trust your intuition and get the hell out of Dodge. My heart is racing just from reading your posts. Something is very wrong here.

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#24 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 01:58 AM
 
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It sounds like your mother has issues of her own she needs to be working through and is now passing them onto you. She seems VERY old fashioned, obsessively. Creepy?, yes, but it still seems\ to me that your mother or father had some serious sh*t going down when they were younger too. KWIM?

Please remove yourself and your family from the situation. I know it's easier said than done but, if at all possible, leave. That's not a healthy environment for you to be in...

wife to DH 2/03, mama to DS 3/03 & DD 1/09
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#25 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 02:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post
By monitor I mean she would make me open my mouth so she could check and see if they were clean. She would do this in front of other people.
This would make me uncomfortable,

Quote:
At my 10th grade orchestra concert she sent someone on stage to tell me to close my legs because she could see my vagina from her seat. i'm very sure she could NOT....I was wearing underwear and good orchestra posture means my legs weren't exactly spread eagle.
but this is truly over the top. It frankly makes me feel your mom has mental issues.


Quote:
Then this weekend, ds was on the potty and my dad walked by and said, "your little ding ding is sticking straight up. don't you know you need to point it down?" I know it was a harmless comment, but it set me on edge. Am i overreacting?
I don't think you are overreacting. The statement in and of itself is harmless. I remind DS to point his down when he's using the potty, so he doesn't pee on the back of his pants. However, considering the history in your family, and the way it's worded "sticking straight up" I probably would be freaked by it.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
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#26 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 02:04 AM
 
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After you move, are you going to cut yourself off entirely from your parents? I really, REALLY hope so. And honestly, the way your mother and father have acted in the stories in this thread...sound like abuse right there. Yikes! Terrifying!
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#27 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 02:15 AM
 
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I started writing my post before this posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post
Well, my mom has this friend's family convinced that I need help that can only be gotten from her (my mom). So they actually encouraged me not to mvoe away from her, because she "is looking out for me." Although....my friend has not said a whole lot to me since that incident happened. Before that, though, they were sold. now, maybe they're not so sure.
This makes me really worry about you and your childs safety. It is a move to try to prevent you from apearin to be a competent adult. This may be leading up to things like trying to get custody of you DS (can't be sure obviously, but it's a possibility.)

I would leave as soon as possible. A shelter, or a friend are possibilities if you have no way to move out on you own in the near future. Frankly unless you exDH was abusive (in your opnion, not in your parents,) I think you'd be safer with him.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
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#28 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 02:22 AM
 
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Not normal in my family but I have a friend whose MIL does stuff like this. We all think she is quite "crazy".

Kris wife to Stew and mom to Joey 8/03 who cares for , 2 frogs and a worm
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#29 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 02:23 AM
 
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Read the book "Toxic Parents", it helped me a lot

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
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#30 of 79 Old 05-26-2009, 03:44 AM
 
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first of all, the fact that you're seeing this as abnormal is great! you are already breaking this unhealthy cycle with your own son.

my mom or i might whisper to my little sister that her bra strap is showing and fix it for her (she's 16) before she leaves the house and my grandma is a little more critical and she might tell another woman in the family that their top looks a little too revealing but that is as far as that kind of thing goes in my family.

good for you for looking out for your child and recognizing this.

Christie

Vegan, homeschooling mom to my 3 boys and my girl, missing Matthew born still at 34 weeks
 

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