Help - 4 year old bit 2 year old's penis - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-05-2009, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
sbrinton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Near Seattle
Posts: 1,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Last night my husband and I left our three boys with my mom for a few hours while we had a date. When we left, our older boys (Asher, age 4 1/2 and Micah, age 2 1/2) were playing with the hose. When they went inside they got cold, so while my mom went upstairs to get their clothes, she had them go outside to the deck where it was warm.

When my mom got downstairs, Asher had bit Micah on his penis enough to cause bruising and to break the skin. OUCH!!! My mom put Asher in time out and comforted Micah, who was obviously very upset. And then called us.

We've talked with the boys. Both of them say they were playing a "game", but I get the idea that the four year old initiated the game. He said it was something where he was going to do something to Micah, and then Micah was going to do something to him.

We took Micah to the pediatrican today to make sure his penis was okay. Besides the bruising and pain, he should be physically fine. Lots of baths and antibiotic cream for the next few days. Hopefully he won't remember this when he is older.

But her bigger concern (and mine) is what is going on for Asher that he had the idea to bite his brother's penis? The doctor said she's never seen this happen. I'm worried that Asher has been somehow exposed to something.

As we're trying to figure out what could have happened, I'm starting to worry about the last few months. He's been wetting his pants more, he's been more aggresive and rude, he's been taking out a lot on his little brother - most obviously biting the little man's parts. I'm not sure if it's normal, but when he draws pictures of people they always have a penis. He drew a picture last night of Micah with a penis that was red and swollen.

This is hard. I'm not sure what to do. I don't really trust the boys to play together alone. They sleep in the same room, but I'm not sure I can trust Asher. We are around many other families who have young boys and I can't imagine how terrible it would be if Asher did this to another little boy.

My gut says something must have happened. I don't know who, how, where, what. I have a friend who had a 5 year old who was invited to play "dog dog" - where one boy gives the other boy oral sex and then reciprocates. I hate to think about it, but wonder if Asher was exposed to something like this.

This was totally long. Any advice? Help? Thank you.
sbrinton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-05-2009, 08:17 PM
 
Mama Mko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Under the Stars
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


I would ask your pediatrician if she could refer you to a play therapist or what she would suggest you do if you suspect possible abuse. I would also not be leaving my sons with anyone until I felt completely sure nothing could be happening to him there. That sounds like a very rough situation.

Live and love with your whole being.
Mama Mko is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:21 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 8,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


That is very unsettling when you put it all together to me. It could of course be nothing. He is growing, is 4 years old now and may just be sibling rivalry- jealous of his brother and as he is a boy as well knows where to "hit him where it hurts", etc. He has a new little brother it appears by your siggie and that may have sent him for a loop. But if something seems off to you I would... well, I don't know what I would do. Hold both boys close, be open to Asher and let him know you are there if he needs to talk. Maybe ask him in a sort of passing way "where did you get the idea to bite your brother's penis?" or something similar to that.

You may want to look in to taking him to counseling just as a means to see why the change in mood and behavior and this incident. Maybe wait to see how things are going or maybe not. There may be something professional eyes are able to see if that makes sense.

I'm so sorry for all involved including you mama!! That sounds really tough!

Like I said it could be nothing. Sometimes our minds just go there as parents. But I am also a firm believer in a mama's gut feeling. Don't ignore it if it's there and strong.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:24 PM
 
phathui5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I would go ahead and move the two year old in with you at night, or into another room.

Get some books from the library about bodies, respecting other people's space, good touch/bad touch, etc. Talk to him about how it's not appropriate to touch or hurt another person's privates and that it's unacceptable to bite anyone, regardless of where you bite them.

I'm with the previous poster, who said to look for a play therapist or someone who can give your family some counseling about what may be going on with him.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
14yo ds   11yo dd  9yo ds and 7yo ds and 2yo ds  
phathui5 is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:27 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 8,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccajo View Post


I would ask your pediatrician if she could refer you to a play therapist or what she would suggest you do if you suspect possible abuse. I would also not be leaving my sons with anyone until I felt completely sure nothing could be happening to him there. That sounds like a very rough situation.
I x-posted with you but basically :

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:27 PM
 
hhrules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that seeking out a play therapist would be a great idea. One thing I would also try to remember is to stay calm. You wouldnt want to make a big deal out of something that may have never happened. While a bite may not be common, an interest in a penis is certainly very common and very normal.

Something else you might want to do is very closely supervise your son in ALL of his interactions, to protect him, and potentially protect others so they dont have a similar experience to what you are having. PLUS, you wouldnt want your son accused of anything.

But ya know what, trusting and loving your son is totally an ok thing. Biting a penis isnt the end of the world and likely isnt sexual in nature.

Big hugs to you and to DS's
hhrules is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Is there some way you can re-arrange the sleeping setup so they're not together unsupervised at night and in the early mornings? Do you have another bedroom currently in use as an office or guest room that you could move the 4yo into? Could you move the 2yo into your own bedroom?

You definitely need to get your 4yo into some kind of therapy- it definitely sounds like he could have been molested. Keep in mind it might not have been an adult who did this- another abused child could have done this to him. Was he ever alone with the 5yo who'd "played dog dog"? Could your son have witnessed to 2 other boys doing this, and not realized that it wasn't supposed to involve biting?

OTOH, the acting up and bedwetting could be normal responses to a new baby sibling.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:47 PM
 
AbbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am so sorry you are going through this.

Definitely talk to the doc, If for no other reason than to have proof that you are not being neglectful .(I hate to put it that way. I have read to many scary CPS threads here.) I would think the doc could refer you to someone that can help sort through this.

Maybe your friend can advise you? I do not know your comfort level with her but since you know about the "dog dog" incident you may be able to talk to her.

One thought, does your son play with hers, or do they have a mutual Friend that this could have come from?

I think your son does have some very real red flag behaviors. On the other hand my DD wet the bed, got aggressive, and nasty (rude) when she was 4 1/2 too. But she also had a new baby brother in the house as a trigger for this behavior. She also was understandable interested in his penis, since she did not have one. I had to supervise quite closely for awhile to keep her from grabbing, poking and touching. But she never spoke of or tried to use her mouth. I do remember an occasional drawing with a penis, but usually it was accidental, the stick man's legs were drawn in a way to suggest a penis and she thought it was funny. I got the impression she was not intentionally drawing a penis.

I guess what I am trying to say is yes, there are some alarming signs here, and you are doing the right thing by investigating. But I do not see it as certain that your son has been abused.

*** I just saw some new posts and your siggy. I think the new baby, especially one that was a preemie and the focus of some extra attention and worry, could be a valid trigger. Sometimes kids think up some really weird things to do to each other. ***

One happy momma joy.gif to a very spirited little girl dust.gif, her tough little brother superhero.gif, and a happy little suprise late April 2012 stork-suprise.gif. Wife to an overworked and under paid husband geek.gif.

AbbieB is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
sbrinton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Near Seattle
Posts: 1,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The baby brother is now almost 7 months old, so not so new anymore. I had a very complicated pregnancy and we definitely had some different behavior issues with Asher then. He's always been an intense, spirited kid.

But I do think some of his attitudes over the last few months have been different. And then obviously hurting his brother in this way...

Trying to put the pieces together, Asher went to a party at our friend's house in December. I'm guessing the friend's friend (the little boy who had initiated the dog-dog game a few years ag)o would have been at the party. I know all of the boys were upstairs pretty much unsupverivsed mostly playing gun games. Asher has been very, very influenced in other ways by what he saw that night. He never was a weapon kid, but since that party it's been weapons all the time, despite all of our efforts to forbid weapons. I know Asher really looks up to the friend and tries to imitate him. I wonder if he saw something that night?

We then went to a party at the same house about 2 weeks ago. I don't know if the friend's friend was there again (he's the next door neighbor), but again the kids were playing in the back yard without adults. Might explain why he's having more trouble with peeing his pants all of a sudden?

I also am a little worried about the possibility that something is happening at school.

My guess is that yes, he's somehow heard about or seen something related to oral sex and that he misunderstood, hence the biting.
sbrinton is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 09:00 PM
 
AbbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrinton View Post
The baby brother is now almost 7 months old, so not so new anymore. I had a very complicated pregnancy and we definitely had some different behavior issues with Asher then. He's always been an intense, spirited kid.

But I do think some of his attitudes over the last few months have been different. And then obviously hurting his brother in this way...

Trying to put the pieces together, Asher went to a party at our friend's house in December. I'm guessing the friend's friend (the little boy who had initiated the dog-dog game a few years ag)o would have been at the party. I know all of the boys were upstairs pretty much unsupverivsed mostly playing gun games. Asher has been very, very influenced in other ways by what he saw that night. He never was a weapon kid, but since that party it's been weapons all the time, despite all of our efforts to forbid weapons. I know Asher really looks up to the friend and tries to imitate him. I wonder if he saw something that night?

We then went to a party at the same house about 2 weeks ago. I don't know if the friend's friend was there again (he's the next door neighbor), but again the kids were playing in the back yard without adults. Might explain why he's having more trouble with peeing his pants all of a sudden?

I also am a little worried about the possibility that something is happening at school.

My guess is that yes, he's somehow heard about or seen something related to oral sex and that he misunderstood, hence the biting.


I'm sending you some strength vibes Momma. I hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

One happy momma joy.gif to a very spirited little girl dust.gif, her tough little brother superhero.gif, and a happy little suprise late April 2012 stork-suprise.gif. Wife to an overworked and under paid husband geek.gif.

AbbieB is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 09:05 PM
 
KissyStarfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: in a cute flat little house :)
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Agreeing with play therapy, and many 's to you and your family. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Those boys are lucky to have you for a mother though because you are meeting this head on. Sending positive thoughts to you and yours.
KissyStarfish is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 09:07 PM
 
1littlebit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i agree with finding him a play therapist. a really good therapist can do wonders for a kid who is working through something. my brother went to a play therapist for anxiety after we moved he was wetting the bed, having nightmares, afraid to be alone or go down the basement etc. and he isnt a talker so even though he was old enough for a regular therapist it would have been useless. the play therapist worked wonders though. he was great with my brother and really helped him work through all of his anxiety.. and as far as he remembers all they did was play cards
1littlebit is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off