Do you keep your kids away from other kids? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 10:42 AM
 
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I don't keep my kids away from other kids or kids who are "bad influences" I don't see the point. I can't do it their entire lives. Instead, I work on giving them the tools to think for themselves and how to deal with people who are leading them to do the wrong thing. Our children are going to encounter "bad influences" as children, teens, adults and into old age. We can't shelter them forever.

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#62 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 10:43 AM
 
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To me, it's not usually children that are inherently the problem. I think everyone has issues-- it's how they are ADDRESSED that I look at. If a child does something wrong (excludes children, calls people names, hits, etc.) and a parent is right there to address it then I think it's OK; we are all a work in progress. If children come to my house without their parents, then I think I have the right to handle discipline with them. This is how I feel with my children at others' homes (so obviously, I am very picky with who they are with alone). If the parents don't like that, then either they should come over w/their children or no more playdates.

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#63 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Raene View Post
In our grandparents generation kids would have NEVER behaved like that. If parents find it unacceptable, children learn...but because parents seem to do nothing, the kids continue.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I was talking to a friend of the family who has been teaching for the past 60 years and is now a principal. He says that kids are kids. Their fashions have changed over the years, but they are still basically the same. People just idealize the good ole times.

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#64 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 11:00 AM
 
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I don't see how this is prejudice. I checked Merriam..


I am making a judgment based on what I see. I have sufficient knowledge, I have a rational reason for my decision, and I make this judgment at the time that it's warranted. If there is a child that is mean, cruel, obnoxious, rude, whatever...I am judging THAT CHILD based on SPECIFIC EVENTS/ SITUATIONS that I have witnessed or that my children tell me about, with their first-hand experience. People are judged based on how they present themselves - children included. I refuse to allow my children to be exposed to hate, anger, or behaviors that I feel are inappropriate for their age. It isn't prejudice. It's life. If I was rude, obnoxious and cruel and people didn't want to talk to me...that is perfectly within their rights. I wouldn't be prejudiced against...I would deserve to have negative judgments against me.
I think you misunderstood.....I'm not talking about keeping a child from another who is mean, but saying that ALL kids are rude and obnoxious (except the OP's, of course!). *That* is prejudice and should be addressed as such without watering it down. Saying there are 'a few exceptions but in general..' does not change the fact. There are not exceptions to the monstrosity of children. Children are not monsters because they are children.

This topic is making me very heated and I think I'd better bow out now while I still have a civil tongue than continue to shout how appalled I am.
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#65 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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We have a pretty small social circle and so far we're fairly lucky that we live in a nice community with nice kids. There's always a small exception, of course, but generally people are pretty pleasant.

I know a mom who keeps her kids very close and essentially waits for families to prove their same-ness to her parenting ideals and philosophies before allowing much contact. It works out well for them, although it does come across as a little fear based-but that's not my buisness. We apparently passed the test because one of the children was allowed to come to our home for a party, unsupervised by the mom. She told me how lucky I was to be trusted enough to have this child in my home (school aged child). I found that to be off putting frankly.
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#66 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 12:47 PM
 
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We have a pretty small social circle and so far we're fairly lucky that we live in a nice community with nice kids. There's always a small exception, of course, but generally people are pretty pleasant.

I know a mom who keeps her kids very close and essentially waits for families to prove their same-ness to her parenting ideals and philosophies before allowing much contact. It works out well for them, although it does come across as a little fear based-but that's not my buisness. We apparently passed the test because one of the children was allowed to come to our home for a party, unsupervised by the mom. She told me how lucky I was to be trusted enough to have this child in my home (school aged child). I found that to be off putting frankly.
Offputting to say it mildly!

I actually like my kids to come in contact with people with different parenting philosophies, different political philosophies, all kinds of differences. They know that there are more ways to look at things than the way their parents see it. I guess we would like them to choose their values mindfully, rather than simply take ours by default.
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#67 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 12:51 PM
 
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She told me how lucky I was to be trusted enough to have this child in my home
yea, you really hit the jackpot, you lucky lady!!! maybe your luck will continue to increase & you can have even more playdates!

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#68 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 01:12 PM
 
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I actually like my kids to come in contact with people with different parenting philosophies, different political philosophies, all kinds of differences. They know that there are more ways to look at things than the way their parents see it. I guess we would like them to choose their values mindfully, rather than simply take ours by default.
I don't mind those differences at all-- it's other issues that I worry about (DH says too much) when letting my children go to other people's homes.

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#69 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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You know, if a person came on here and said they were keeping their kids away from black people because they're awful, it would be prejudice. If a person came on here and said they were keeping their kids away from Jews because they're nasty, that would be prejudice.

No matter how the reasons are dressed up, this conversation is all about prejudice. There's no justification for it, no reason to pretend it's okay. I do hope that those who ARE keeping their kids away from all others are putting away money for therapy later - dealing with such hate and disdain in their own family they will need it.
I am very upset to find this sort of attitude on a board that is about gentle, caring parenting. The two are not compatible in the least.
I can agree that if people are choosing to keep their kids away from all other kids, or from kids who are part of certain groups (ie public schooled, daycare, etc), based only on the other kids' membership of the groups, that is pre-judging the other kids, aka prejudice. However if a parent is choosing to limit her child's exposure to individual or a group of specific kids (not just based on membership in a category) due to their behavior and its affect on her child/children, that is not pre-judging, because it is based on the other individual kids' actual behavior.

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#70 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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I don't mind those differences at all-- it's other issues that I worry about (DH says too much) when letting my children go to other people's homes.
I am very reluctant to send my children to other people's homes when I don't know the family well. There are people I've offended and times the kids have gotten mad at me, and I'm ok with that. I let ds1 play outside at most of our neighbor's houses, but he's only allowed in a few of them.

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#71 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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We've lived abroad and traveled as a family unit, which has had the unintended but interesting result of making our family circle very tight, and peer influnce on the kids not overly strong.

However, we've been in one place for the last year. What really impresses me is that my three older children (5,7,9) choose really great kids to be friends with. Even the ruffian, somewhat neglected boy next door is (and my kids picked up on this before I did) a kind person and a grand companion who can play across the ages range (he's six). I like that in a kid!

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#72 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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I have a question to the OP, because I'm not sure I'm comrehending the extent of the situation here: You dislike children of this generation and call them monsters, yet your example of atrocious behaviour is poor table manners in a 5-6 year old? Is this the worst you've encountered?

Why would you think that your children, who spend the majority of their time with you anyway, and are presumably exposed to the standards of your family, would be negatively affected by a child with poor table manners? Why is that assumed that inappropriate behaviours would be found attractive and thus copied? In 2 years olds, maybe. But a 5 and 6 year old won't automatically copy a behaviour.

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#73 of 114 Old 06-16-2009, 08:48 PM
 
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I think it's the parents of "those kids" that I try to keep my kid's away from. I think the pendulum has swung away from "punishment parenting" to parent's becoming uncomfortable setting limits or boundaries.

I recall my friend and I went to a mom's meeting. I think up to that time we considered ourselves gentle in our parenting styles. My friend spent the entire time shielding her child from blows from other children. The parents did nothing. We left asking, "Why would it be acceptable for your child's right to express themselves be greater than my child's right to safety and freedom from bodily harm?"

There is age appropriate behavior and then there is outright disrespect. To have a child say something inappropriate at a dinner table will happen. It's the parent who has to step in and make it a teachable moment.

I have a close friend and her kid's are difficult. Our children spend very little time together. I don't think my kid's need to watch her kid's kick her and call her names.
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#74 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 09:32 AM
 
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I let my kids associate with other kids whose behavior I don't always like, and whose parents don't parent exactly the way I do. Sometimes this is because said parents are my friends. Examples: my best childhood friend, an athiest, is letting her DH raise their daughters in his church; as a result, they are very expressive of their religion, which is distinctly different from ours. Another example: a friend in the SCA who spanks (well, the dad does, the mom's not so thrilled about that form of discipline), and whose house I haven't been able to let DD go to because it's such a mess (like, borderline wondering if my friend is a hoarder or has other serious prob messy, with nasty roach infestation). Their kids are also heavily steeped in TV pop culture, manifesting by turns a Power Rangers and then a Bakugan obsession; I've tried to limit the media influence on DD's toys a bit more. I babysit the SCA friend's kids regularly, and they all play great together. I'm considering letting DD go visit at their house after they've moved, since they seem to be leaving the mess behind.

The neighborhood kids I have a bigger problem with; DD wants to go out and play with them, so I let her try, but the families closest to us have a combination of girls a few years older, and boys close to her age. The girls don't want to play with her much because they think she's too young, and will walk her home saying they have to go inside, then keep playing outside, which hurts DD's feelings (partly because she doesn't need to be walked home, and partly because they're clearly still playing). And the boys usually just don't want to play with her because she's a girl and physically smaller than them.

The kids in her homeschool enrichment group last year left me less than thrilled; at the end of the year, DD took the class picture while I was sleeping and scribbled out all the boys' pictures and circled the girls. I know part of this has to do with age-typical gender association, but part is also due to the teasing they did over her short haircut last year, of kids saying she looked like a boy. The irony there is that she herself still tries to categorize kids as boy/girl based on short/long hair. She wanted to dye her hair blue a few weeks ago, but wasn't entirely sure about it because she was afraid people would think she was a boy. I assured her it would wash out before Eagleridge started up in the fall (she knew SCA friend kids wouldn't tease her; her friend Thomas, for all that he's boy-pop-culture obsessed, usually dresses up in her pink princess dress when he comes over, lol), and I think it helped that when my sister came to get her last week to take her back to Texas for a visit, she had blue streaks in her hair.

To make a long story short, I do endeavor to ensure that adult family are DD's main role models, seconded by her 13 and 11 yo. stepbrothers (who for all that their mom lets them watch horror movies and the one is a bit too video-game obssessed for my taste, are young gentlemen and good role models for behavior and manners) and that her most-seen peers are friends' kids who, though their families may do things differently, are generally at least as well-behaved as DD.

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#75 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 10:44 AM
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And the boys usually just don't want to play with her because she's a girl and physically smaller than them.
Really? I honestly thought that stuff like this only happens on TV. We've lived in several different neighborhoods due to military transfers, and I've never seen boys and girls shun each other during play solely because of gender.
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#76 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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Really? I honestly thought that stuff like this only happens on TV. We've lived in several different neighborhoods due to military transfers, and I've never seen boys and girls shun each other during play solely because of gender.
i see it all of the time here. my kids play really awesome together, but even when my dd has friends over to play, the dynamic sometimes chages toward my son & i have to become much more present (it's like he's the "enemy" or something & although it starts off as a game...it usually becomes unfair play quickly). i usually play games with him alone, or i'll find activities everyone can enjoy while i oversee the project. i'm also part of a very large secular homeschool group & they have several gender specific playgroups. we can't attend any because i have a boy and a girl. i've even asked if i could bring my daughter and was told no. the organizer is amazing & she took time to explain why they prefer it all boys...it actually made sense and i was fine with it, but it still stinks because i'd love to take my son to make friends.

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#77 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 11:10 AM
 
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Really? I honestly thought that stuff like this only happens on TV. We've lived in several different neighborhoods due to military transfers, and I've never seen boys and girls shun each other during play solely because of gender.
I would guess that it's less likely to happen in HS'ing groups, but I can tell you for certain that it does happen in PS. It happened when I was a child and going to school and playing in our neighborhood, and it happened to my ds before we began homeschooling. He was teased for playing with girls on the playground to the point that he didn't play with anyone - boys or girls. s

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#78 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 11:12 AM
 
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Homeschooling doesn't necessarily produce kind, well-mannered children. I've met three homeschooled kids over the years that neither I nor my kids could stand being around.
Oh yeah. I can say the same for "AP/crunchy" kids too. Sometimes the parents do the "right" things but the kids are still hard to be around.
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#79 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a question to the OP, because I'm not sure I'm comrehending the extent of the situation here: You dislike children of this generation and call them monsters, yet your example of atrocious behaviour is poor table manners in a 5-6 year old? Is this the worst you've encountered?

Why would you think that your children, who spend the majority of their time with you anyway, and are presumably exposed to the standards of your family, would be negatively affected by a child with poor table manners? Why is that assumed that inappropriate behaviours would be found attractive and thus copied? In 2 years olds, maybe. But a 5 and 6 year old won't automatically copy a behaviour.
Not the worst, no, but it's a good example.

And maybe your child/ren are very different from mine, but my girl is very influenced by others and LOVES attention. Yes, she's quick to pick up the good bad and ugly behaviors of others.

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#80 of 114 Old 06-17-2009, 09:47 PM
 
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Their kids are also heavily steeped in TV pop culture, manifesting by turns a Power Rangers and then a Bakugan obsession;
My non-"heavily steeped in TV pop culture" son loved Power Rangers when he was 7, and his friends (4 homeschooled brothers) are really into Bakugan right now. It's normal for children to go through phases where they're totally into one thing or another.

Ds' thing with Power Rangers was after seeing one commercial at Grandma's house while we were visiting. What eventually "cured" it was giving up and letting him watch the movies. Then he moved on.

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I've never seen boys and girls shun each other during play solely because of gender.
Honestly, I think that's a natural thing. I've seen kids of all ages (ok, not babies) do it during play. Homeschooled, public schooled and private schooled. As long as they're not being mean about it and everyone has someone to play with, I leave it alone.

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#81 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 01:40 AM
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I would guess that it's less likely to happen in HS'ing groups, but I can tell you for certain that it does happen in PS.
I was referring to the actual neighborhoods we've lived in. None of our neighbors are homeschoolers, and never have been. And I've seen kids not wanting to play with other kids out of mere dislike for that particular kid, but not because of gender.

And I went to public school and don't recall gender bias, either. I mostly played with girls at recess, because it was the girls who were jumping rope and playing jacks and doing other things I liked to do. But there were girls playing kickball/dodgeball with boys, tag, etc.

Anyhoo...back to the subject at hand....
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#82 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 02:02 AM
 
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In our grandparents generation kids would have NEVER behaved like that. If parents find it unacceptable, children learn...but because parents seem to do nothing, the kids continue.
The kids probably were not invited to the dinner in the first place. When my grandmother was parenting my mother, it was a very adult centered world. Kids had their own world, it didn't combine as it does now.
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#83 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 02:07 AM
 
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You know, it's never occurred to me to intentionally keep my children away from other children. I mean, don't get me wrong-- I'm selective about the company we keep and if I think someone is a bad influence, I discourage the friendship or, at the very least, try to keep things at our house so I have some control over the situation. But I think it's a very important life skill to know how to get along with all kinds of people, not just the ones who think and act like we do. As a matter of fact, this was one of the reasons I signed my daughter up for the regular ballet class and not the homeschool one. I don't want her only hanging out with homeschoolers.

Raene, I didn't see how old your kids are, but how long do you plan on this working? Or do you live someplace where you're really isolated? My oldest is ten, and asks to go out and play with the neighborhood kids. I can't really see myself saying "No, I'm sorry, I don't like that little boy so you can't either." I mean, if the little boy tortured kitties or yelled cuss words at random passerbys I would have a reason, but I can't see justifying refusing to let him learn to negotiate his own friendships just because I didn't like children.

ETA: OK, you have a three-year-old and one on the way? Am I reading that correctly? Three-year-olds imitate everything. I think it's definitely a great goal to foster friendships with people who are worthy of imitation, but seriously, I would not get bent out of shape over my three imitating another three. I think a more important lifeskill is to help them learn to sift through what's worthy of imitation and what isn't. Just my two cents.

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#84 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 02:16 AM
 
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I don't see how this is prejudice. I checked Merriam..


Then call it ageism if you want a different word. I've been on the receiving end of ageism and it hurts. I was a slightly young parent (compared to the group I wanted to enter, which were the older parents with planned pregnancies, I was determined to learn from them) and people judged me early on until they got to know me and saw I was a loving capable parent. I had to prove myself... totally unfair. You are judging an entire age of humans. These are the people your child will work with, marry, and when its her choice socialize with.

You need to find a circle you are comfortable with and socialize your child. Your experience with today's children is not universal I assure you, I meet kids at our hs park day who are far better behaved then my ds all the time. And I really work on his attitude and behavior daily. I kind of hope those kids do rub off on him.
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#85 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 02:56 AM
 
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Moved to parenting, since this isn't really a homeschooling topic.

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#86 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 03:39 AM
 
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Complaints about the general worthlessness and rudeness of youth have been on record since Ancient Greece. And the reason we don't have them from before that is that the records deteriorate.

I don't know how old your daughter is, but you are going to need to overcome your aversion to kids her age. Ideally, soon. My son is two, and while yes, he has picked up the occasional bit of bad behavior at daycare, he's also taken some bad behavior in. It's not like the devil-children at the DC corrupted my innocent angel. It's more like, they all got together and compared notes.

Anyone who has ever been lonely has some level of desire to fit in, so you're probably best off finding a group of parents you like and kids your own child's age who you can cope with.
I love this entire post so very, very much.
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#87 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 04:21 AM
 
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Honestly, I can see keeping either of my kids away from other children... Unless the other child poses a serious risk to the physical safety of my child, I would rather they not learn to shun those who are different in their opinions or ideas.

I also agree with those who have said thus far that judging all the children in this generation (save for those select few who get deemed "ok") is a form of prejudice. You are judging everyone in a group based on the actions of a few and labelling good kids as "monsters" before you even meet them. Yes there are kids out there who are down right nasty, and there are parents who do nothing. But by far, most kids and parents are decent human beings.

As for previous generations being better... I believe it was Socrates who said "Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

Every single generation is going to complain about the younger generation. It's inevitable. It doesn't make it true though.

Given the OP described an entire generation the same way, I feel I should point out that when we have a preconcieved notion of how a group of people behave or what they are capable or incapable of, we tend to ignore that which doesn't fit into out opinion and obsess over that which does.

How do we expect children to learn to "stand on their own two feet" with their peers, if they are never given the chance to practice?

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#88 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 04:22 AM
 
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Maybe I'm just living in the wrong place. This kind of behavior would never have been tolerated a few generations ago...
I feel the same way, that my children do so many things that I just never would have been able to get away with, but part of the reason we couldn't get away with it is because we knew we would face serious punishment.

My daughter has told me a number of times that she hates my food and it's disgusting, and she has ended up in tears when we told her she is free not to eat food she finds disgusting, but I'm not going to make another dinner for her when she won't even try a single bite of it. She disliked some food a friend of mine made--it was tuna salad, but she had no mayonnaise so she used olive oil, and my daughter didn't like it at all and basically said that in front of my friend. I took her away and talked to her about how that was rude, it took her awhile to see it. But she thinks it is just being honest and people should understand that not everyone likes the same things. We ended up leaving the house for the play date because she was unhappy, not willing or maybe just not able to keep her emotions in check, and I didn't think it was fair to the hosts.

My personal view is that children feel free to say these things because they are safe to do it. I was not safe from bodily harm or censure if I were to say things like that, plus I wanted people to like me. I can get angry and speak sharply to my daughter, but things don't necessarily change at least not for a long time, it seems. It takes a long time for children to really realize that life is more than just what they see in their own little world.

I believe, and I know some will disagree, if a child that you've invited for dinner tells you that your food is disgusting, you should say something to the child about it. Maybe that you find these comments hurtful and you find it rude that they would say this to you. That might actually mean more coming from you than from their own parents, since you are the one who is being hurt by the comment.
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#89 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 04:22 AM
 
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in 25 years our kids will be complaining about how bad their kids generation is.

It's the circle of life!

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#90 of 114 Old 06-18-2009, 04:24 AM
 
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No.

I'm something of a misanthrope but save drug trafficking and similar habits, my kid can pick her own friends. They are her friends- I don't have to like them!

Quote:
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Quote:
In our grandparents generation kids would have NEVER behaved like that. If parents find it unacceptable, children learn...but because parents seem to do nothing, the kids continue.
The kids probably were not invited to the dinner in the first place. When my grandmother was parenting my mother, it was a very adult centered world. Kids had their own world, it didn't combine as it does now.
Or, the kid said that, got hit, and shut up to finish the dinner in misery. I hate how when kids misbehave and are punished, it is somehow better than when they misbehave and are explained how to do it better. The behavior is the same!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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