Why do people WANT me to use CIO??? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-22-2009, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fuamami View Post
I wonder if your brother has kids?

If not, I would imagine he just hasn't ever really thought about it that much?

If so, maybe he wants to rationalize and normalize the methods he used in his family?
Exactly. I might have said the same thing 10 years ago, I mean, I wasn't going to let me kids control me I was so clueless.
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:42 PM
 
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Ahhh, the good ol' "you can fix everything by CIO, don't you know?" theory.

CIO is not the answer. It never is. You are doing everything right, so a simple, "Thanks, but this is actually working really well for us".

I have a girlfriend who pushes CIO on me everytime sleep comes up. It's frustrating
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:52 PM
 
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Yeah, I'm sure every parent who does CIO does it for exactly those reasons. Probably not at all because they're exhausted, have to get to work, and have it coming at them from all angles (including their peditricians in many cases) that CIO is the way to go.

I think people tell you to do it because if the goal is to get the baby to sleep, it DOES work with some children. I am NOT ADVOCATING, I am telling you that people CIO for a reason and that is the reason. They probably haven't read one single thing about the cost of CIO sleep, or any of the dangers-- they're looking for one end result: Is the baby asleep now? Then it "worked."

I don't think most people who CIO see it as being wrong and are trying to convert you to The Dark Side. They see you spending a lot of time getting your baby to sleep, they know what worked for them (or what they've heard from friends), and they're honestly trying to help, misguided as it is.

You're under no obligation to follow their advice. Use the opportunity to gently educate, and then move on.
My doctor said the crying "won't hurt her" and that it will get harder to get her to sleep as she gets older. He told me she would have sleeping issues if I continued to parent her to sleep at night. I mean, this guy is a professional with about 50 years of schooling (although most of the education was not in CHILD PSYCHOLOGY.) So, my point is, that people tend to listen to their doctors. My questioning of and mistrust of doctors is, I think, not the norm. I do research, lots of it... but even if you research, so many mainstream sources advocate CIO.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
when people recommend CIO/ sleep training i tell them i am training him how to take care of me when i am 100 yrs old. i want to eat when i am hungry, i don't want to be ignored when i ask for something, and i don't want to be made to live on someone else's schedule.
I love it!! Great point!

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Old 06-22-2009, 06:59 PM
 
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I tend to say something like "would YOU like to cry yourself to sleep?"
that's what i like to say but people just don't want to agree.
what i've noticed, among people with babies the same age as mine, is that NO MATTER WHAT method you use (CIO, not CIO, AP), it isn't going to change their innate personalities. they're either going to be good sleepers or they're not. doesn't matter what you do, so i figure i might as well give my little man everything he needs instead of leaving him to cry alone. sometimes, i post on Facebook things like Teresa "'s glad that Beau slept from 8:30 til 5:30 last night and is proud to say that we have NEVER used CIO in his 8.5 months! " you never know what someone might learn.

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Old 06-22-2009, 11:14 PM
 
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Dude! Don't doubt yourself! You sound like a wonderful, caring, nurturing mother who's there for her child at all hours of the day and night, as a mother should be. While it may be "easier" to stick a baby in a crib and leave it to cry, it's NOT RIGHT. It's not compassionate, it's not caring, and it's certainly not loving!

Ignore the people who tell you to take short-cuts or ignore your instincts or do something that doesn't feel comfortable or kind to your child. At the end of the day, do you want to be the best mama you can be, or someone who leaves her kid to cry alone so she can entertain her brother? It seems like that's a no-brainer to you, so tell your brother to shush up. :P

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chipper26 View Post
My doctor said the crying "won't hurt her" and that it will get harder to get her to sleep as she gets older. He told me she would have sleeping issues if I continued to parent her to sleep at night.
I so don't get where this comes from. I've been very lucky. DD was a terrible sleeper as an infant, but she'd outgrown that by...15 months? Maybe 18? Both my boys are wonderful sleepers, and parenting them to sleep was the only thing I ever considered. I don't think they all sleep well just because of bedsharing, singing, cuddling, etc. - but it certainly hasn't had any negative effect.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by teale View Post
Ahhh, the good ol' "you can fix everything by CIO, don't you know?" theory.

CIO is not the answer. It never is. You are doing everything right, so a simple, "Thanks, but this is actually working really well for us".

I have a girlfriend who pushes CIO on me everytime sleep comes up. It's frustrating
I hear ya.

I had a baby who needed to be actively parented to sleep - nursed, rocked, someone with him for HOURS - until he was 2 years old. And then his sleep patterns changed, and BAM, he now falls asleep at the drop of a hat. He literally fell asleep last night on my stepmom's floor (she told him to stop playing on her sofa so he sat on the ground, but that is another rant for another time...)

Was it a PITA? YES! Would I have preferred a situation where I could deposit my baby in a room and he'd put himself to sleep? Absolutely. Especially when I had friends or family visiting, knowing that bedtime would take two hours was especially gruelling.

However, I know my kid, and I know myself, and I know that this expectation is about as reasonable as a 2 year old rationally deciding to not wack another child for taking his favorite toy... The problem was NOT with my kid, but entirely with my expectations.

What gets me is that in the US, we have completely problematized normal infant and toddler sleep. There are very good neurological and evolutionary reasons for kids to have the sleep patterns they have - light sleep for a looooong time, needing to be near a caregiver, waking every few hours to eat, etc.. Some kids can be easily "trained" out of this instinctive and ingrained behavior (and some don't have the same needs and actually prefer to settle by themselves), but many cannot, at least without other impacts that frankly are not worth the pain for anyone involved.

And I tend to say this to pretty much every single person who suggests CIO to me.

'cuz an infant or toddler don't know we ain't on the savannah with wild hyenas about to eat 'em - and back in the day, it was the ones who screamed the loudest who got picked up...

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:13 AM
 
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I so don't get where this comes from. I've been very lucky. DD was a terrible sleeper as an infant, but she'd outgrown that by...15 months? Maybe 18? Both my boys are wonderful sleepers, and parenting them to sleep was the only thing I ever considered. I don't think they all sleep well just because of bedsharing, singing, cuddling, etc. - but it certainly hasn't had any negative effect.
Yeah, but most people aren't willing to wait that long. I've seen significant improvement in my dd who is 11 months old, but there really was no where to go but up. By conventional standards, she's still not a good sleeper. I'm hoping for 4-5 hour stretches by the times she's 15-18 months.

I think a lot of parents miss out on a lot of special moments/feelings when they don't co-sleep.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:52 AM
 
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I don't have much to add. Except it is a cultural thing. I was part of an english-speaking moms and tots group (mostly brits and americans), and ALL of them did CIO. I held my toungue, but without me saying a word they were still angry with me, as if me not doing CIO was some affront to them. ?? I was also part of a Danish moms and babys group, and no one there did CIO. The conversation never really came up, because they had not ever considered it.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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It strikes me that if your brother doesn't have kids, he was probably really just wondering.

Also, I have trouble equating a baby that cries for a few minuits before sleep with CIO. I don't think they are the same thing at all - CIO means that the baby is continuing to cry to try to get some attention or help, and the parent deliberatly ignores it to teach the baby that it will not be effective.

But some babies seem to need to fuss for a few minuites, maybe up to about 5, before they settle down. It is not, in my experience, the same kind of crying - it becomes less intense rather than more, and sounds tired and sleepy. It seems typical f kids who don't want to be held to sleep. So that may be what your brother was thinking of.

As for why so many people do advocate CIO. Well, there are a lot of resources that suggest it, and some are quite convincing. Have you read te Ferber book - it is a quite reasonable sounding explanation of kids sleep patterns, and he has good credentials. I suspect he probably actually knows a lot about kids sleep cycles, though I don't agree with his conclusions.

Other times, parents just don't get any better ideas or tools given to them. Everyone else suggests CIO. And their kids, in general, don't seem to be demons. So they try it.

And finally, I think parents can be at the end of their rope. They both work, they can't sleep, and they aren't functioning. They have no helpful friends or relatives, they are on their own. So they do what they feel they have to to get some sleep. THis is really a larger societal issue, IMO, that relates to our expectations of new parents - take care of new baby, run a house, work full time. Totally crazy.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chipper26 View Post
Yeah, but most people aren't willing to wait that long. I've seen significant improvement in my dd who is 11 months old, but there really was no where to go but up. By conventional standards, she's still not a good sleeper. I'm hoping for 4-5 hour stretches by the times she's 15-18 months.
Oh, I know. There's huge variation and some people don't want to wait. But...dd was my only terrible sleeper. DS2 slept 5.5-6 hours at the hospital, the night he arrived, and he stayed that way pretty much straight through. I don't know if he would have done that without nursing, cuddling, etc...but he phased out of being parented to sleep without a hitch. As I said, I was very fortunate, but that just underscores for me how sad it is that people are just jumping to all these weird conclusions about children "not being able to fall asleep on their own" unless they're forced to CIO.

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I think a lot of parents miss out on a lot of special moments/feelings when they don't co-sleep.
Me, too. Sure - there have been nights that almost drove me crazy, and there were certainly times that I wished dd wouldn't wiggle so much, and all that. But, I don't think there's anything quite like having a baby wake up hungry, and snuggling them into the breast while still half-asleep myself. It's just so...amazing.

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Old 06-23-2009, 04:51 PM
 
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This isn't a question that can seriously be addressed without violating the UA.
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:50 PM
 
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Almost ever mainstream parenting magazine or book promotes this theory!
So very true
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:04 PM
 
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I think that people advocate for CIO for a lot of reasons. Taking 40 minutes to get a child to sleep every day sounds miserable to a lot of people. They don't realize what a sweet and precious time it can be. I think some ppl are worried that you aren't getting enough "me time", and some are worried you are spoiling the baby. Some people are defensive about what they did with their children.

I really think some people are just confused by not CIO. I think they think it's a bit like ripping off a band-aid. Yes, it will hurt for a second (a night or two) but then it's over and you can just put your child down in the crib and the child goes to sleep and you clock out, so to speak. Generally that isn't the reality though.

I don't agree with CIO and have never done it, but I do think that people generally just don't get it and don't think about it from the baby's perspective.

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