How would you react to this? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-21-2009, 02:27 PM
 
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With kids all information is vulnerable to interpretation or disclosure...

We gave DS (5) the info wrt intercourse and bodies prior to school partly because I wanted to make sure the info came from us and not other children.

We don't believe in Santa or Tooth Fairy and I tell my children that some kids do and we should respect their beliefs. However, accidents happen and I won't feel badly if children have a difference of opinion about these things. It's kind of a part of life....
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy View Post
Your 5 year old daughter is told by your friends 5 year old daughter that babies are made when a hard penis goes into the vagina & it feel good (the child doesn't know this. mom just told her it feels good). Friends 5 year old just brings it up out of the blue (we were hiking through the woods) & has been told by mom not to discuss this with anyone.

This did not happen to my daughter because she was not within ear shot of this but it could have easily been my child. When my friend was confronted with this information, she became defensive & said, "I don't know why people feel the need to keep this from their kids. I just won't lie." What she actually means is she selectively lies.

Thoughts please.
Anyone who "confronted" me about how, what and when I teach my kids about any subject would be leaving with a considerable flea in her ear. I wouldn't be defensive at all, but I would make sure the "confronter" knew how offensive her behaviour was.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:12 PM
 
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We don't believe in Santa or Tooth Fairy and I tell my children that some kids do and we should respect their beliefs. However, accidents happen and I won't feel badly if children have a difference of opinion about these things. It's kind of a part of life....
We do Santa and the Tooth Fairy - but I also wouldn't be upset if someone else's child told my kids the truth before I did. That's how ds1 found out, actually - a friend told him that he (the friend) saw his mom put money under his pillow. DS1 asked me if that was true. I said "yes", and we talked about it. If someone tells dd1 now, that's cool. Eventually, for one reason or another, she'll ask me - and then she'll know. If that reason is a friend whose parents don't do Santa, that's fine with me, yk?

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Old 09-21-2009, 03:13 PM
 
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it wouldn't bother me.
i don't get the part about your friend "selectively" lying though - how is she selectively lying?
Maybe because it doesn't always feel good? It doesn't to me anyway.

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Old 09-21-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pepper44 View Post
My DD just turned three and she is very curious and matter of fact about body related issues. She wanted to know all about birth, and she tells people that a baby is very tiny in the mom's belly then grows bigger and bigger and one day gets so big that it crawls out a special hallway next to the pee-pee hole. Then it gets milk from the mom's boobies. This horrified my dad when she explained it to him.
Wait... your dad didn't know?! Your mom has some explaining to do.



I don't understand the selective lying bit so I can't comment on it. I would be fine with my daughter hearing that about sex from a friend. Hopefully I'll get to her first, but it may not happen cause I don't want to push this information.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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Old 09-21-2009, 03:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pepper44
My DD just turned three and she is very curious and matter of fact about body related issues. She wanted to know all about birth, and she tells people that a baby is very tiny in the mom's belly then grows bigger and bigger and one day gets so big that it crawls out a special hallway next to the pee-pee hole. Then it gets milk from the mom's boobies. This horrified my dad when she explained it to him.
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Wait... your dad didn't know?! Your mom has some explaining to do.



You just made my day.

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Old 09-21-2009, 05:51 PM
 
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I think the information was too graphic for the age. Most five year old girls who know that the penis is not always soft have been sexually abused. If a five year old shared with me that she knew that detail of sex, I'd be very concerned.

Which is exactly what I would say to my friend. I'd also tell her I find it difficult to believe that she didn't already know that five year olds tell everyone, everything and that some parents would find that language either inappropriate and/or disturbing.
I agree, way too graphic for 5.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:22 PM
 
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I agree, way too graphic for 5.
What makes it too graphic? Are you concerned that it will be emotionally scarring?
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy View Post

After spending some thinking about it what upset me goes deeper than the conversation between the 2 kids. It essentially boils down to my sentence of this mother's selective lying. And unfortunately I can't explain any more of that.
Gah! I keep coming back to this thread to get the scoop, and you're leaving me hanging!?!?

Spill woman, spill!
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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I agree, way too graphic for 5.
Huh. Well before 5, my daughter wanted to know both the name of "the part that feels good" on herself, and (2) "how butterflies drink the nectar." I provided both names, "clitoris" and "proboscis." It wouldn't have occurred to me to think that "proboscis" was too graphic, and certainly I never thought to withhold from her the names of her own body parts.

Going back to the OP, the 5yo in question said that "babies are made when a hard penis goes into the vagina & it feel good." Assuming an adult told the 5yo this (and that she didn't figure it out, read it, or hear it from another child), what is too graphic is presumably (1) the fact that penises get hard, and/or (2) that sex can feel good. I'd far, far rather be discussing these facts with my child (as a child, when she might even listen to my value spin on them), than to hide these facts from her and have a predator or boyfriend introduce the concepts.

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Old 09-21-2009, 06:43 PM
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For me personally, I would be upset. I am fine with the other girl knowing what she knows and in whatever terms she knows it in. What I do take exception to is that she is sharing her version with my child. As a parent, this is one of those topics that I feel it is important to highlight/stress how it is private and not something we go around talking about with anyone (at least in my own experience- I'm not sitting around talking about sex with my parents or my next door neighbor), just as our vaginas or penises are private. If a five year old wanted to show my kid her vagina because she and her mom had talked about it, I'd be upset because just as act itself is private, so is the actual body part. I have no problem with my kids or the other lady's knowing the facts, but even at five there is an understanding that certain things are private/special/whathave you that should be only discussed/shared with mom and dad.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:57 PM
 
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For me personally, I would be upset. I am fine with the other girl knowing what she knows and in whatever terms she knows it in. What I do take exception to is that she is sharing her version with my child. As a parent, this is one of those topics that I feel it is important to highlight/stress how it is private and not something we go around talking about with anyone (at least in my own experience- I'm not sitting around talking about sex with my parents or my next door neighbor), just as our vaginas or penises are private. If a five year old wanted to show my kid her vagina because she and her mom had talked about it, I'd be upset because just as act itself is private, so is the actual body part. I have no problem with my kids or the other lady's knowing the facts, but even at five there is an understanding that certain things are private/special/whathave you that should be only discussed/shared with mom and dad.
hmm.. I talk about sex with my mom quite often (mostly bc these days), with my dad on occasion (he's the one who had the 'talk' with me- 2 yrs after I lost my virginity ), my older brother when it's been relevent and most of my mama-neighbors daily

I guess we won't be counting me in the modest camp, eh?

(FWIW, I think we should be sharing these details, and that women shouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed.. from what I hear, men talk about their 'private parts' frequently! what's the difference?)

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Old 09-21-2009, 06:58 PM
 
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sounds like a whole lot of drama between the moms

i don't know how you would prevent a 5 year old from sharing information they learn about sex. i think it is a burden to ask a child to keep that information private - it seems it would be beyond their developmental capabilities. then again i'm not a child psychologist but i still don't think it's fair to ask kids that age to keep information to themselves.

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Old 09-21-2009, 07:08 PM
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We ask 5 yos to keep their hands to themselves, to keep their private parts private, to respect others' bodies, why is this so different?

As far as not being modest, for our family, the act of making love is a very sacred and spiritual act and between the couple and God. While I intend to convey the mechanics in a matter of fact way, it will be coupled with lengthy conversations regarding the emotional/sacredness aspect of the act as well. Since our family regards it as such an intimate and private thing, out of respect for DH and for our marriage, we don't discuss the details with others, even in generalities. We believe sex is an adult topic, just as things like the death penalty or war, and while I'm not trying to hide the truth from my kids, there are some details that I personally don't feel are age appropriate and I feel are my responsibility to discuss with my kids and impart in them that this is something we can always discuss as a mom and child, but not something we should be sharing with those outside of our family.
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:16 PM
 
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We ask 5 yos to keep their hands to themselves, to keep their private parts private, to respect others' bodies, why is this so different?

As far as not being modest, for our family, the act of making love is a very sacred and spiritual act and between the couple and God. While I intend to convey the mechanics in a matter of fact way, it will be coupled with lengthy conversations regarding the emotional/sacredness aspect of the act as well. Since our family regards it as such an intimate and private thing, out of respect for DH and for our marriage, we don't discuss the details with others, even in generalities. We believe sex is an adult topic, just as things like the death penalty or war, and while I'm not trying to hide the truth from my kids, there are some details that I personally don't feel are age appropriate and I feel are my responsibility to discuss with my kids and impart in them that this is something we can always discuss as a mom and child, but not something we should be sharing with those outside of our family.
I understand where you are coming from, but as the mother of a teen and a pre-teen, my experience is that all children talk about these things between themselves. Unless you completely isolate your kids from other kids, they will hear things that you won't like or agree with. You may find that your kids are interested in the mechanics long before they are intellectually ready to understand your views on the emotional/sacredness aspect of the act.

I'd rather my child hear a truthful version of the mechanics, even if from another 5 year old, than some of the rubbish I heard as a child from other children.
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:25 PM
 
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We ask 5 yos to keep their hands to themselves, to keep their private parts private, to respect others' bodies, why is this so different?
I expect a 5yo child to talk about sex and body parts because (1) IME, 5yo children don't consistently keep their hands to themselves, or consistently follow any other social rule, either, no matter how much we ask; (2) IME, 5yo children are fascinated with their bodies, especially those body parts and emissions deemed private - it's BECAUSE they are private that they find discussion of them so endlessly amusing and important (to them); and (3) IMO, 5yo children do not have the cognitive power to distinguish between the concepts "no, don't tell other people about your body as small talk" and "yes, do tell other people about your body when it hurts, when you are confused, and when others express an unnatural interest in you." Sheesh, sometimes the courts can't even decide whether a 6yo acting out sexually to a 5yo is "sexual abuse"; the 5yo certainly can't. I'd FAR rather that my child err on the side of talking about her body, than self-silencing her possible knowledge of abuse (or even a UTI).

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Old 09-21-2009, 07:43 PM
 
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While I think it's a good idea to talk to our kids about social protocol, i.e. what's private and not generally talked about in public -- it's also not realistic to expect a young child to always remember these distinctions.

As I've already said, when my oldest at 4 wanted to know about reproduction in detail, I answered her questions and I also explained that some of her friends probably didn't know all this yet and their mothers would want to be the ones to answer their questions, and would probably prefer not to have her telling them these things.

But at the same time, I wouldn't have been upset if she'd forgotten and shared some of this with her friends. On one occasion, she told me she and her friend were playing with their little toy horses, and her friend wanted the horses to have a baby, and without thinking dd put the horses' bodies together so they could "do sex" and the female could get pregnant --

Then her friend asked her, "What's SEX?" -- and dd told her she needed to ask her mother. Dd was worried that she'd said too much, and I said don't worry about it, it's not that big of a deal.

I never even saw any need to mention it to the other mom.

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Old 09-21-2009, 07:48 PM
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While I think it's a good idea to talk to our kids about social protocol, i.e. what's private and not generally talked about in public -- it's also not realistic to expect a young child to always remember these distinctions.
This.

And....I can understand not wanting your own child to speak of certain things, and not wanting other children to speak of certain things to your child. I do think that getting "upset" about it is over the top.

No matter how much you (general you) want to think that you are going to be the center of your child's universe, the fact remains that it's a huge world out there, full of billions of people. Your kids are going to learn about things from other people. Getting "upset" about it will just break down communication....kids generally don't want to tell their parents things that will upset them.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:07 PM
 
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I can see if you aren't ready to talk to your daughter about this, but what would you expect the other mom to do?
"Hey dd's friend's mom, head's up that my 5 year old knows about sex. I've told her to not share with her friends, but you know how kids are. Keep an ear out and just tell her that she should only talk to it with me or dh if she does start telling your dd something more than you want her to know right now."
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:13 PM
 
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"Hey dd's friend's mom, head's up that my 5 year old knows about sex. I've told her to not share with her friends, but you know how kids are. Keep an ear out and just tell her that she should only talk to it with me or dh if she does start telling your dd something more than you want her to know right now."


In my family's case, I'd have had to print that on a flyer and distribute it to her entire daycare center - 200 kids. And then her school - she attends a 1000-kid K-8, so lots of flyers there. Also every kid she met at the playground. And at every birthday party. And the YMCA at which we attend the crowded family night. Oops, and the other kids taking her group swimming lesson. And all the neighbor kids. And the kids at the campgrounds where we vacationed (total 16 nights last summer). And...

Better practice is for all parents to realize that kids will be kids, AND that all kids aren't raised identically.

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Old 09-21-2009, 08:13 PM
 
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As for the original question, my reaction would be to think "OMG!"

Then ask the little girl "where did you learn about that?"

Then chill out when she told me her mommy told her. And I'd tell my dd to come to me if she had any questions.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:16 PM
 
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In my family's case, I'd have had to print that on a flyer and distribute it to her entire daycare center - 200 kids. And then her school - she attends a 1000-kid K-8, so lots of flyers there. Also every kid she met at the playground. And at every birthday party. And the YMCA at which we attend the crowded family night. Oops, and the other kids taking her group swimming lesson. And all the neighbor kids. And the kids at the campgrounds where we vacationed (total 16 nights last summer). And...

Better practice is for all parents to realize that kids will be kids, AND that all kids aren't raised identically.
: I was thinking more in terms of a kid who goes on a few playdates here and there. Comes of having a 1 year old.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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Getting "upset" about it will just break down communication....kids generally don't want to tell their parents things that will upset them.

This is such a great point!

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:32 PM
 
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"Hey dd's friend's mom, head's up that my 5 year old knows about sex. I've told her to not share with her friends, but you know how kids are. Keep an ear out and just tell her that she should only talk to it with me or dh if she does start telling your dd something more than you want her to know right now."
Most five year olds are in some sort of school environment, at least part-time. If you do schooling outside the house, they're on the playground with the other elementary school kids; they're riding the bus.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:42 PM
 
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We believe sex is an adult topic, just as things like the death penalty or war, and while I'm not trying to hide the truth from my kids, there are some details that I personally don't feel are age appropriate and I feel are my responsibility to discuss with my kids and impart in them that this is something we can always discuss as a mom and child, but not something we should be sharing with those outside of our family.
Then all you can do is teach your child to walk away should such discussions arise with other children.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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I have to say, my DD knows the mechanics of sex and reproduction and it's never, ever occurred to me to tell her not to talk to anyone about it. As everyone else has said, it seems like a complex distinction for a 5yo and I'm much more focused on keeping her safe and healthy by teaching her openness around the topic than on making a big deal about how she should hide her knowledge from her peers. Judging by our abject failure to get her to understand that sharing her nonbelief in God with random people (and religious relatives...oy!) is not really appropriate, it wouldn't work anyway.

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Old 09-23-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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this folks, is why it is important to tell kids about sex and drugs and other things before their friends do! Because they are going to hear about it somewhere.
This is SOOOO true. DS asked me where babies come from when he was 5.5yo. I tried not giving all the details but he has a very scientific mind and kept asking. I did tell him the whole thing. When I told my H (now ex) that I had told DS about it, he was livid with me.

Then, 2 weeks later, DS says he needs to ask me something in private so we go into his room and talked. He said someone on his bus (all kindergarteners) said that sex is when the daddy rubs his penis on the mommy's butt.

So luckily, he felt comfortable coming to me and talking to me about it which I can't imagine would have happened had I not answered him honestly. And he knew that what he was told was wrong because we had just talked about it.

To answer the OP, I would not have been angry in the least. I would have actually been thrilled to find another parent that believes in being this open and honest with their kids.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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To answer the OP, I would not have been angry in the least. I would have actually been thrilled to find another parent that believes in being this open and honest with their kids.
Me, too.

But knowing that this mom has asked other moms to lie to their children to shield her own child from some other knowledge, it sounds like this is more of a tit-for-tat thing, and is not even really about the issue of sex.

The other moms seem to be mad that this mom feels free to be as honest as she likes with her own child -- but is nevertheless expecting them to guard their communications with their own children ... as if her view about what's acceptable for HER child to hear is the only factor worthy of consideration.

While I don't think there's anything the least bit wrong with what she told her child, I would find her seeming double-standard rather annoying.

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