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#1 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Your 5 year old daughter is told by your friends 5 year old daughter that babies are made when a hard penis goes into the vagina & it feel good (the child doesn't know this. mom just told her it feels good). Friends 5 year old just brings it up out of the blue (we were hiking through the woods) & has been told by mom not to discuss this with anyone.

This did not happen to my daughter because she was not within ear shot of this but it could have easily been my child. When my friend was confronted with this information, she became defensive & said, "I don't know why people feel the need to keep this from their kids. I just won't lie." What she actually means is she selectively lies.

Thoughts please.

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#2 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:23 AM
 
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well, it sounds like the girl asked how babies are made and her mom told her. I wouldn't choose to tell my five year old that much information but I don't think it is wrong. lots of my childrens friends had that much information when they were that age. and you can never expect a five year old to keep their mouth shut about anything...they are five. talking is their favorite pass time.

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#3 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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are you objecting to the penis in the vagina part or the 'hard' and the 'good' part?

by 4 1/2 my dd knew about penis in vagina. she already knew about conception since she was v. young. she asked. i told her. she has always been v. fascinated by the reproductive and digestive system. she would not let me hedge. no mama tell me EXACTLY how the sperm gets to the egg. how does daddy's sperm get into your body? not fulfilling her request would have meant turning it into an obsession.

so how i feel about her saying it? perfectly fine. the hard and good is a little 'shocking' to me - but i can understand the mom is making sure dd doesnt think of it as something undesirable. not to mess her up about sex. i would be perfectly fine with dd's friend telling her that. i would be perfectly find dd's friend coming upto me and telling me that.

speaking for myself i would have prefered to hear the truth rather than all the wierd stories i was told which confused me and had me curious till i finally got the right answer. i know some of my friends were messed up and thought kissing would produce babies. i remember so clearly my mom refusing to answer my question when i was 7 telling me i was too young to know. i still remember that moment thinking how ridiculous she was being.

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#4 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
well, it sounds like the girl asked how babies are made and her mom told her. I wouldn't choose to tell my five year old that much information but I don't think it is wrong. lots of my childrens friends had that much information when they were that age. and you can never expect a five year old to keep their mouth shut about anything...they are five. talking is their favorite pass time.
Doesn't sound unreasonable. I know sex is a taboo subject in many families, and we haven't covered everything yet in our family, but this wouldn't bother me at all.

 
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#5 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:42 AM
 
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No big deal here, either. I don't see anything selectively truthful about what she said, and I'm sure she got defensive because she was "confronted with the information". I get defensive, too, when I'm confronted.

It appears that the child asked her mother how babies were made and was told the mechanics of it. I could certainly see a five year old following up that talk with something like, "Doesn't that hurt?" and being told, "No, it feels good." Again, no big deal.

The mother even told the daughter that it was something that shouldn't be discussed with other children.

How would you have rather the other mother handled her child's question in order to protect other people's children?
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#6 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:42 AM
 
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What your friend's dd said isn't much different from that in the book "Where Did I Come From?" by Peter Mayle, which I read to my child about age 5. (See description & reviews at http://www.amazon.com/reader/0818402...5Fdp%5Fpt#noop, including reviewers' saying they used the book at about age 5.)

FTR, my daughter is also the one who used the word "clitoris" aloud to a peer at about age 4. (Yup, she wanted to know about the parts of her body, including "the part that feels good.") The other kid's mom was furious, but I apologized only for my dd's age-appropriate lack of discretion, NOT for her knowing the word (which other mom found shocking). I explained to other mom that body knowledge empowers kids, esp girls, against sexual and physical abuse - the theory is that having a reporting language reduces the risk of unreported abuse.

Of course we as mothers of preschoolers can teach social circumspection - that is, that it's not ok to talk about sex, gentiltalia, farts or poop with people other than our parents and doctor, unless we're reporting someone trying to touch or photograph us - but IME that's a lesson that takes a few years to be mastered. Example: my almost-7yo started singing about farts in company last night.

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#7 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 11:44 AM
 
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Some people give their kids the whole story pretty early. That's their choice and I don't think people should lie. However, when someone chooses to give that graphic detail to their kids, they should consider that they are also deciding to give the info to their kid's friends too. Five year olds are talkers and the info will get out there. That's just my opinion though.

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#8 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:23 PM
 
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I can see why it would be a little upsetting. Sure, every child has a different curiosity level and families share this information differently and it could put a parent in an uncomfortable situation to have this kind of information thrust upon a child that as-yet knows nothing about sex.

My own 7.5 yo has not asked a single question about sex. This would have put us both in an awkward situation as dd does not even know that it takes a sperm and an egg to make a baby. She is curious about the body, in general, but sexuality is simply not on her radar... at all. I'm sure it will be in the near future, but I want it to come from her own natural curiosity. I think it's important that kids learn about this as their natural curiosity arises about it, and not have the information thrust upon them unsuspectingly. If parents think their children are mature enough to have the information, the children should also be mature enough to understand that it's not a subject that is for open discussion.
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#9 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

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#10 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:33 PM
 
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No problem here either.
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#11 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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It would bug me a lot more to hear a five-year-old say that the stork brings babies, or that you find them in cabbage patches or some other nonsense story like that.
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#12 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:44 PM
 
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I might be a bit shocked at first because so few parents I know would tell their 5 yr. old that much info. But then I'd assume the little girl asked and her parents told her. I wouldn't word it the way the parents in the OP did and I started out with less info then added more as my kids asked more. But really it's up to each parent to decide how they answer those kind of questions from their children. It does get tricky though when that child that has all the info decides to share it with other kids. I believe kids ask for the info they are ready for at any given time and that doesn't work if your child is told all by another child. I'm not sure I explained that well. But overall not a big deal to me.

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#13 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 12:52 PM
 
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I would and wouldn't have a problem with this. Yes, I agree, the 'truth' should not be kept from children. If they ask where 'babies come from' I think its okay to state the basics..... But I would be uncomfortable saying (or having such things said to my child) as 'hard penis feels good'. I mean, I am comfortable with scientific basics, but not the whole 'sexual-ness' of it all. I wouldn't want to give the wrong message iykwim.

Of course - the little girl probably asked something like 'does it hurt?!?!' with shock when her mother told her what happens - and of course her mother told her it 'feels' good. Or something like that. So whilst shocked at first, I think I could see the innocence in it as well.

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#14 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 01:01 PM
 
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*shrug* What I see here was that the mom probably gave her some decent information, which went into her five-year-old brain and came back out phrased in a slightly more five-year-old-ish way.

I could see a five-year-old questioning to the extent of this knowledge:

"Mommy, how are babies made?"

"The daddy puts his penis into the mommy . . . "

"Where?"

"Her vagina . . . "

"But penises are soft!" (A five-year-old may have seen her brother or father naked at some point)

"Penises get hard sometimes."

"Why would you do THAT?"

"Because it feels good."

Translation to five-year-old language: A daddy puts his hard penis into mommy because it feels good.
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#15 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cschick View Post
*shrug* What I see here was that the mom probably gave her some decent information, which went into her five-year-old brain and came back out phrased in a slightly more five-year-old-ish way.

I could see a five-year-old questioning to the extent of this knowledge:

"Mommy, how are babies made?"

"The daddy puts his penis into the mommy . . . "

"Where?"

"Her vagina . . . "

"But penises are soft!" (A five-year-old may have seen her brother or father naked at some point)

"Penises get hard sometimes."

"Why would you do THAT?"

"Because it feels good."

Translation to five-year-old language: A daddy puts his hard penis into mommy because it feels good.

:

that's how I imagine the original conversation took place. It seems totally age appropriate to me. I understand the mom being defensive, because frankly if someone thought it *wasn't* age appropriate they were probably angry at the mom who told the truth.

this folks, is why it is important to tell kids about sex and drugs and other things before their friends do! Because they are going to hear about it somewhere.
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#16 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 01:25 PM
 
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it wouldn't bother me.
i don't get the part about your friend "selectively" lying though - how is she selectively lying?

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#17 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 01:51 PM
 
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I don't have a problem with this either. My DD knows the basic facts and has a book (It's Not The Stork) which she is capable of reading herself. I haven't comletely vetted the book. I think it has info about the clitoris, etc.

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#18 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mandib50 View Post
it wouldn't bother me.
i don't get the part about your friend "selectively" lying though - how is she selectively lying?
: I don't understand that part either -- where does the selective lying come into all of this?

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#19 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 02:00 PM
 
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I really don't see the issue. I mean, yeah, you haven't gone there with your kid yet. Other parents have different ideas about when this sort of knowledge is appropriate. I don't see how something like this wouldn't happen, unless every parent in the world sat down and had "the talk" with their kids on the same day. I mean, I think this mom did more to prevent this than I have (I don't think I've ever told my kids that talking about how babies are made with people outside the family is inappropriate.) I'm not sure why a confrontation was necessary, although I do think bringing it up to the other mom is fine (if for no other reason then to make sure that the mom knew she had this knowledge, and that it came from mom and not someone who was molesting her or something). I'm not sure what you expected other mom to do - apologize for teaching biology to her child?
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#20 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 02:05 PM
 
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How would I react? I don't think I would have. The child had correct information in age appropriate terms.

How did the mom selectively lie? Because she didn't go in ART or rape?

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#21 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 02:09 PM
 
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I forgot to add that being confronted does make one feel defensive. I think confronting the mom was over the line really. She was not wrong for telling her daughter what she did and no one should have called her out for it, I think she deserves an apology for that.

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#22 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 02:13 PM
 
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I think it's a little more shocking the way it sounded--a hard penis feels good. But I also could see how the innocent conversation could have led to that. I wouldn't be upset if my DD heard that.

My DD just turned three and she is very curious and matter of fact about body related issues. She wanted to know all about birth, and she tells people that a baby is very tiny in the mom's belly then grows bigger and bigger and one day gets so big that it crawls out a special hallway next to the pee-pee hole. Then it gets milk from the mom's boobies. This horrified my dad when she explained it to him. I can see how questions about HOW the baby gets into the belly might not be too far off...I would rather be honest and answer her questions than make it into something mysterious or lie.

I also don't understand how your friend is selectively lying? What she said seems like the whole truth!

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#23 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 02:33 PM
 
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I would have no problem with that conversation. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a 5 year old to have all that information.

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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I think it's important that kids learn about this as their natural curiosity arises about it, and not have the information thrust upon them unsuspectingly.
Why? How would it harm them to be given the information when they hadn't thought to ask for it? Don't you give your kids all kinds of other information they haven't specifially asked for? Yeah, sex is a topic that kids could potentially be embarrassed to hear about, but that seems more likely if you wait until they're older, and also if you give them the message that it's a difficult, embarrassing subject by never bringing it up until they basically force you to by asking direct questions.
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#24 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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See....I would be opposite to most here. I would have a problem with it. I would mention it to my friend (nicely). Sure I am sure that it started out innocently but for me I don't think 5 y/o is an age to discuss full details with. I am one who teaches proper names (penis, breasts, scrotum) but still would have difficulty talking this indepth at that age. That's just me though

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#25 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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I think it's a very good idea for kids to have reliable information and also to feel comfortable asking and talking about things that might be embarrassing. Especially considering that many girls begin to menstruate at only age 8 or 9 these days, they should have a pretty good grasp of concepts of human sexuality before then right? Also, I think girls especially deserve the truth, because sometimes it really hurts when a baby is born, and sometimes menstruating is really uncomfortable, but sex really is supposed to feel good and girls & women even have a special body part fully devoted to feeling good. I don't think anything I've said here would be bad info for a 5 year old- but my daughter is only 2, I don't know.
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#26 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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See....I would be opposite to most here. I would have a problem with it. I would mention it to my friend (nicely). Sure I am sure that it started out innocently but for me I don't think 5 y/o is an age to discuss full details with. I am one who teaches proper names (penis, breasts, scrotum) but still would have difficulty talking this indepth at that age. That's just me though

I can see if you aren't ready to talk to your daughter about this, but what would you expect the other mom to do?
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#27 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 03:54 PM
 
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I can see if you aren't ready to talk to your daughter about this, but what would you expect the other mom to do?

the mom had nothing to do with it ... it was two 5 year olds talking to each other, so how can the mom control that kind of conversation? i teach my little ones about sex and their bodies but certainly cannot control what they might say to a friend.

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#28 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 04:13 PM
 
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My DD is 5 and my DS is 3.5, and they have recently asked about "but how does the baby get IN there?" so we had the conversation. Twice so far, actually. My kids know that sperm and egg each have half of the information required to create a baby, and the sperm and egg need to combine. Mom has eggs, dad has sperm, and dad put his penis into mom's vagina to deliver the sperm to the egg.

My kids haven't asked for more information than that, but if they did ask I would certainly talk more about the mechanics of sex with them. I'm hoping to build up an environment of matter-of-fact answers and trust, so they will feel okay talking to me when they are pre-teens and their peers tell them all sorts of weird things about sex.

We attend a weekly playgroup with ten other moms and their kids, who are mostly around 5, too. I've fully warned the other moms about the information my kids have. They've mostly laughed and told me they'll send their kids to me for the talk when they start asking questions. I've apologized in advance for anything my kids might say to their kids, and nobody is avoiding us, so I guess they're okay with it.
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#29 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 04:34 PM
 
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Why? How would it harm them to be given the information when they hadn't thought to ask for it? Don't you give your kids all kinds of other information they haven't specifially asked for?
Sex is natural. Like birth and death, disease, etc.. I'm not going to start explaining death or disease unless there is a context for it... usually that happens naturally and as with every other "milestone", the children prompt the parents when they are ready to learn about these things. I think it's logical to just follow your child's lead... as usual for AP. I would no more want a child explaining death to my dd than I would birth or sex... because how we explain it may not be how another family explains it. That's why I say that if a child is trusted with information on sensitive subjects, they should also be trusted to keep it to themselves.

Sure, I give dd information she needs to operate within her world. Currently, sex is not part of that world. When she's ready to know, she will naturally become curious about it and I will make sure she has all the information that is AGE APPROPRIATE. By the time she is ready to have sex, she will have all of the information she needs. At 7.5, she neither wants, nor does she need to understand the mechanics of sex.
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#30 of 118 Old 09-20-2009, 04:40 PM
 
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Sure, I give dd information she needs to operate within her world. Currently, sex is not part of that world. When she's ready to know, she will naturally become curious about it and I will make sure she has all the information that is AGE APPROPRIATE. By the time she is ready to have sex, she will have all of the information she needs. At 7.5, she neither wants, nor does she need that information.
And a lot of kids are at that level of curiosity long before 7.5. I'm the oldest of 5 siblings, and I knew the biological basics of sex long before 7.5 . . . why was I curious? Well, because my mom was popping out another kid every 18-24 months. At 7.5 I had 4 younger siblings.

I also recall that I discussed the knowledge I had with other kids before or around that age. Kids who were convinced that kissing lead to babies and other such nonsense. Kids don't have a filter on things that are just part of life to them.
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