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#31 of 46 Old 09-23-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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My first thought is yeast or worms. I would have her tested to make 100% sure it isnt an underlying medical condition.

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#32 of 46 Old 09-23-2009, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Right, I agree with duchess_of_dork. I don't recommend actually doing anything unless the parents specifically asked for help.
I was offering my thoughts in a more general, this-is-how-I-personally-would-handle-it-if-it-were-up-to-me kind of way.

Um, yeah - my first post says I'm just curious what others would have done. In case it wasn't crystal clear, I'm not canvassing a message board intending to collate a file of options for my friend to review!

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#33 of 46 Old 09-23-2009, 06:04 PM
 
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I don't think she should be made to stop. It's her vulva, her business. It feels good, we all know that...I think it's her business. True, true...if she were eating ice cream constantly until it made her tummy hurt because she liked it so much...we would all be screaming for the mother to just take the tub of ice cream away...but rubbing her clitoris and eating iced cream aren't exactly the same thing. I don't even think it's so much "allowing her to express her sexuality" as much as teaching her from an early age that her body is her business and her "personal space" is hers to manage. I don't have a DD who rubs for the moment, maybe she will sooner than I thought...but I don't believe I would ever want to teach her that MY expectations should apply to "use" of her own personal pleasure space. That's HERS.

but what if she was a teenager cutting her self? what if it felt good to her? it is after all her body shouldn't she be allowed to do it if it feels good? it is her persoanl space, should a parent stay out of it or should they intervene? I mean maybe it will be come a problem and maybe she will self regulate...who knows. maybe she is just one of those kids who needs to do it more than others.

I don't know, I think any time a child is hurting themselves in any way a parent needs to intervene. I really think if she was doing this to any other part of her body no one would question the need to help her curb the compulsion and find out what the underlying cause was.

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#34 of 46 Old 09-23-2009, 06:41 PM
 
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lilyka, I didn't get the impression that anyone was saying the parent shouldn't intervene.

If one of my children were hurting herself I would most certainly see it as my responsibility to get to the bottom of WHY she was feeling a need to do this.

But you know there's no way (short of institutional lock-down) to forcibly-stop a teen from finding a way to cut herself. And yes if my child were determined to do this, and I couldn't help her find a safe outlet for meeting those needs, I might have to resort to lock-down just to keep her alive ...

While I continued looking for ways to identify and solve the underlying problems, so my child could safely live free again.

But whereas cutters are doing it TO experience the pain, the 6yo doesn't seem to be self-stimulating for this purpose: the pain is a byproduct of how frequently and intensely she is doing it.

Indeed, if this mother helps her child identify what's causing the stress, changes what she can, and also follows Inci's advice to provide her with a wide variety of sensory experiences -- I would be very, very surprised to find that the problem is still continuing.

I think everyone agrees that it's unacceptable for a child to be hurting herself, and parents need to be concerned and intervene: we just aren't all agreed on the best methods for intervening. Which of course is to be expected.

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#35 of 46 Old 09-23-2009, 10:34 PM
 
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self harm releases endorphins that feel good. i knowe it is hard for people to undxerstand but some sle fharmers do it because it feels good. If it hurts eventually is inconsequential because in the moment it feels good.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#36 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 01:11 AM
 
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Um, yeah - my first post says I'm just curious what others would have done. In case it wasn't crystal clear, I'm not canvassing a message board intending to collate a file of options for my friend to review!

Jane
And FWIW my reply was given in that regard... I would never give a friend's kid lubricant for any reason, obviously. I thought that was clear because of the way the OP framed it.

So in case it wasn't... let it be clear now... I'm saying, if this were my kid, not, the OP needs to go advise!

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#37 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 01:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but what if she was a teenager cutting her self? what if it felt good to her? it is after all her body shouldn't she be allowed to do it if it feels good? it is her persoanl space, should a parent stay out of it or should they intervene? I mean maybe it will be come a problem and maybe she will self regulate...who knows. maybe she is just one of those kids who needs to do it more than others.

I don't know, I think any time a child is hurting themselves in any way a parent needs to intervene. I really think if she was doing this to any other part of her body no one would question the need to help her curb the compulsion and find out what the underlying cause was.
Cutting is different, because the desire is for pain itself. It's masochism. Masturbation, even with unintended consequences (rawness, lost time, etc.) is not masochism. It is self-pleasuring.

I'm not saying that nothing should be done to address the stress. I think that regardless, this girl may continue to pleasure herself, and she needs to have that safe place, and to know how to do it without hurting herself.

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#38 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 02:36 AM
 
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how is it self pleasuing if it lead to rawness and bleeding? i think it has clearly crossed the line from pleasure into painful compulsion. rubbing any part of your body uuntil it is raw swollen and bleeding is painful. just because it is her vulva or clitoris doesn't mean it feels good. there is obviously something about it that makes them feel good but just because something makes you feel better does not make it healthy.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#39 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 05:54 AM
 
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having a child with anxiety - one thing i know for sure - is you cant take the source of teh stress away.

so it would mean a two pronged action from me.

one to find out other ways of stress relief. which for my dd involves enough rest and enough physical activity.

secondly not saying about the self rubbing but instead offering her some oil for it. by giving her better techniques to handle stress - or help her try different ways to handle stress, might stop the constant rubbing.

i see rubbing the same as kids who suck on their collars, or fidget. offer them different methods of stress and htat might stop or reduce the amount of self touch.

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#40 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but what if she was a teenager cutting her self? what if it felt good to her? it is after all her body shouldn't she be allowed to do it if it feels good? it is her persoanl space, should a parent stay out of it or should they intervene? I mean maybe it will be come a problem and maybe she will self regulate...who knows. maybe she is just one of those kids who needs to do it more than others.

I don't know, I think any time a child is hurting themselves in any way a parent needs to intervene. I really think if she was doing this to any other part of her body no one would question the need to help her curb the compulsion and find out what the underlying cause was.
Riiiiiighhhht....a 16 year old cutting herself to cope with anxiety and a 6 year old rubbing her clitoris excessively because she has discovered it feels really really good are the same thing. Ok. When a teenager is cutting herself...that is a purposeful self injury....the six year old rubbing her clitoris raw is not hurting herself on purpose...she is pleasing herself to the point of hurting herself...and there is a difference, in case, somehow, you can't see that.

I didn't say that the parents should do nothing...I said that the parents should try to push her in the direction of rubbing which is not going to chaffe her to th point of being raw, like with oils....instead of shaming her by trying to make her stop the behavior all together. If there is an underlying stressor causing this issue, I would obviously advise my friend to discover what that issue is and help her to find ways of coping which do not end up hurting her....

But to be honest....I wouldn't really think it's any of my business either. If this were my kid, I would be a bit miffed at a friend thinking she had the right to tell me what to do here. Not only is it really none of MY business if my DD wants to rub her vulva a lot..but it's REALLY none of my friends business.

I would sit back and let this one play out. I would give the girl some oil and try and help her to discover other relaxation methods without sending the message that I want her to stop rubbing herself...but beyond that, I would let it go. Some kids rub. Some kids rub a lot. Apparently, some kids rub until they are raw. Not to be innapropriate...but there was a time, when DH and I were newly living together, when we had relations with a frequency which caused more than a little bit of discomfort and chaffing...but it felt really good. Should someone have stopped us?

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#41 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
how is it self pleasuing if it lead to rawness and bleeding? i think it has clearly crossed the line from pleasure into painful compulsion. rubbing any part of your body uuntil it is raw swollen and bleeding is painful. just because it is her vulva or clitoris doesn't mean it feels good. there is obviously something about it that makes them feel good but just because something makes you feel better does not make it healthy.
Ummmm, no, it's self pleasuring because that's what the little girl SAID it is.

And for the record...it doesn't take THAT much rubbing to irritate that region of the body. It's not like rubbing your damn arm until it's raw....that's very very sensitive skin and her salty little child hands, with no sort of lubrication, rubbing and rubbing...it wouldn't take very long at all for it to lead to some irritation, rawness or even bleeding. Do you HAVE a vagina?? I don't know about you, but it doesn't take a lot to irritate mine.

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#42 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 11:03 AM
 
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someone said that it was her body and she she should be allowed to do what she want with it even hurt it. BUt I really think hurting yourself (rubbing it raw could lead to infection, its more than just spoiling the fun) in anyway, it is a parents responibility to step in and help. i think any compulsion is unhealthy. but whatever. i am just saying it is what I would do with my child. I would not let my child hurt themselves even if it somehow felt good to them. even if it somehow tied to sexuality.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#43 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 11:51 AM
 
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But to be honest....I wouldn't really think it's any of my business either. If this were my kid, I would be a bit miffed at a friend thinking she had the right to tell me what to do here. Not only is it really none of MY business if my DD wants to rub her vulva a lot..but it's REALLY none of my friends business.
I don't really have a strong opinion on the overall situation either way, but to be fair here, the friend did tell the OP about this -- I'm assuming the OP doesn't know about the rawness via direct observation. Since you wouldn't see it as a big deal if it were your daughter, and wouldn't be seeking thoughts on the matter, presumably you wouldn't tell friends about it. But if you did tell them for some reason, it wouldn't be reasonable to then get miffed if they shared their thoughts with you -- that's what we open ourselves up to when we discuss private matters with other people.

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#44 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 12:01 PM
 
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My DD is 4 and also rubs herself. Sometimes it becomes red. When it is red and hurts, she tells me and we wash it with warm water and put some diapercream on (only outside parts). It clears up quickly. She will learn, I don't want to make a big deal. I only tell her to do it in private and to wash hands but don't tell her to stop.
I am not sure about giving a lube, she is still too young for that, she would put the whole container on it I think

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#45 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 07:41 PM
 
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#46 of 46 Old 09-24-2009, 09:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but what if she was a teenager cutting her self? what if it felt good to her? it is after all her body shouldn't she be allowed to do it if it feels good? it is her persoanl space, should a parent stay out of it or should they intervene? I mean maybe it will be come a problem and maybe she will self regulate...who knows. maybe she is just one of those kids who needs to do it more than others.

I don't know, I think any time a child is hurting themselves in any way a parent needs to intervene. I really think if she was doing this to any other part of her body no one would question the need to help her curb the compulsion and find out what the underlying cause was.
If it was a teen cutting, my answer would be pretty close to what I gave to this situation. Find the stressor and help her figure out away of dealing with that. Though there would likely be psychiatric assistance sought if it was cutting.

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