do some kids just need to cry (OR) let's talk naps - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So let;s talk naps shall we?
My dd is 22mos old and the nap thing has def. changed. She used to be so reliable about going down at around 1-2 in the afternoon everyday no question but now she pretty much has stopped napping and I cannot accept this!(I mean I will if I have to but I don't wanna<whine>)
So anyway, my mom says that when she has her if she isn't settling into her nap by the afternoon my mom will just hold her and tell her its time to take a nap and she said she will cry a little bit but she just tries to soothe her and it akes about 15-20mins but dd does fall asleep.
So I have tried this twice and it has worked both times but dd got REALLY mad today when I was holding because I was holding her still and she wanted to get down and I wouldn't let her and she was crying really hard but then she took her baba and fell asleep after about 10mins.

I guess it just goes against everything I thought I was supposed to be doing to actually make my dd cry like that, but if she fell asleep then she needed the sleep, right? YEsterday she ended up sleeping for about an hour and half where as all last week and the week before NO NAP!


Please tell me about what you do for naptime, how you get your kids to go down, if you have always had a structured nap time and if you think what I am doing is abhorrent!
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#2 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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Well, I might be in the minority here at MDC but I believe that 22 month olds need their sleep to grow and develop and learn and be happy, and if a few tears are shed along the way, that's OK. It doesn't sound as though you're leaving her to cry alone or refusing to soothe her for an extended period of time. If she's sleeping for a good bit and waking up well rested and happy, I think you're doing the right thing.

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#3 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I'm not leaving her, I'm actually holding her the whole time in order to actually get her to be still and that in turn is what makes her cry. She usually starts out ok, drinking her baba and letting me hold her for a minute or two, but then tries to get up and I don't let her and thats wehn the tears start and they really came today but after about 3-4 minutes of heavy crying she wanted her baba again and settled down slowly.

I really wonder if the crying expends that last little bit of energy that then helps her to relax and fall asleep, or is that just wishful justifying??
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#4 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 06:22 PM
 
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I think it sounds like you are meeting her needs. If she doesn't nap, she'll be unhappy and - I would guess - end up crying a whole lot more than she is before she falls asleep. And she's not crying alone, she has her mom by her side to help her get through the rough patch. Honestly, mama, I think you're handling it perfectly.

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#5 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Leeann, that is so nice to hear, I appreciate it!
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#6 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:03 PM
 
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Ditto!

My DS does the same thing, and I'll hold him until he sleeps.

Sounds like your MIL is a wise, compassionate mama.

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#7 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:10 PM
 
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I think I read some where that around this age is when kids are learning soooo many new things, they really don't want to "waste time" napping. I can totally see that! When I've got a new book/catching up with an old friend/a great movie is on tv, who wants to sleep (even though I do need to!) I think a little encouragement at this age is the most helpful thing you can do. IMO, a child under 2 still needs to nap - for the health of her brain and body.
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#8 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:13 PM
 
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i did the same thing with mine. my kids hated naps because they were scared they were going to miss something even though they still need them. So sometimes they just needed help gettiong to sleep. and they had every right to be crabby about it but they were still going to take a nap.

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#9 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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Sorry, I will be the dissenting vote. I do not believe in physical restraining a child unless there is a really good reason to do. I know myself I completely panic if someone tries to physically restrain me. It is a completely horrible feeling! If I am picturing this right you are holding her completely still while she screams and freaks out? What website am I on again?

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#10 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:18 PM
 
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Ill disagree.

i dont think its ever appropriate to hold down a child until they fall asleep (unless there is something wrong with the child...like medically etc). Anytime I wonder if an action is appropriate I imagine doing it to an adult.

Would I hold my spouse down until he fell asleep? No
But what if he was really tired and I knew I would be preventing him from being really tired later...then would I hold him down? No.

I dont think its respectful to the child. And, all respect aside - what does it teach them? I dont need to pay attention to how tired I am, because if I get too tired mama will know, and she'll make me nap.

On a complete other note - at 22months, she may not need a nap every day. Some kids just require less sleep. if she is happy during the day when she doesnt nap and then gets over tired at 8p...put her to bed for the night at 730p...

Just my thoughts...

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#11 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:32 PM
 
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If I am picturing this right you are holding her completely still while she screams and freaks out? What website am I on again?
I don't think this comment is very helpful to the OP. She was asking for opinions and help, not judgement.
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#12 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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The impression I got from the OP is that she's holding her in her arms and not allowing her to get down and play or whatnot, not forcefully holding her down or restraining her in a supine position.

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#13 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 08:09 PM
 
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I always have to take DS to my bedroom where it's quiet and dark to get him to calm down enough to nap. He can show all the signs of being tired but if i don't remove him from the sight of his toys, he will NOT nap.

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#14 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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I don't think this comment is very helpful to the OP. She was asking for opinions and help, not judgement.
Yes, and that is my opinion. If support only is what is wanted then put it in the title, otherwise don't be surprised if people question restraining a young child while she (admittedly by the OP) cries and screams.

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#15 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 11:19 PM
 
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Yes, and that is my opinion. If support only is what is wanted then put it in the title, otherwise don't be surprised if people question restraining a young child while she (admittedly by the OP) cries and screams.
I wasn't questioning the fact that you disagreed rather how it was how it was said. Poiyt agreed with your stance as well but I thought her post was constructive and had some great points. Your post didn't seem to want to help rather just point out that she was wrong.
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#16 of 119 Old 10-06-2009, 11:48 PM
 
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My dd is 22 months as well, and she basically done with naps. She fights and kicks the walls and tries to me laugh so I'll play with her, lol. I've decided to start a quiet time routine with her instead- we will nurse in the bed, then read quietly and then if she's not going to sleep I encourage her to play quietly on her own.

Trying to balance a preschooler and peace....
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#17 of 119 Old 10-07-2009, 12:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post

Please tell me about what you do for naptime, how you get your kids to go down, if you have always had a structured nap time and if you think what I am doing is abhorrent!
We have never done a set 'naptime' fwiw, so maybe my experience won't help much... but I can't see myself holding them to fall asleep - except if they were nursing, and it was mutually desired. My kids always napped when they were tired, and woke up when they were rested - so sleep has just never been a big issue in our home.

If she doesn't take a nap, what happens? Is the rest of the day completely miserable with constant melt-downs? I'm just trying to see why it would be so important for her to continue taking a nap that you are at this point.

All four of my kids stopped napping consistently around their 2nd birthday, so IMO, 22 months is at the age where she may just not need to rest like that on a daily basis.

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#18 of 119 Old 10-07-2009, 01:46 AM
 
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If she doesn't take a nap, what happens? Is the rest of the day completely miserable with constant melt-downs? .
in myt case yes, yes that is exactly what happened.

and i did not hold my dd down flat to the bed. i would lay down with her or rock her and tell her to be still. if she got out of bed i would tell her to get back in bed etc. but then I expect my children to obey me and there are many times when i tell them it is time to sit still or lay still and enforce it but consistantly bringing them back to where I want them.

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#19 of 119 Old 10-07-2009, 04:49 PM
 
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please keep both the forum guidelines in mind and the UA in mind when posting to this thread, particularly the following:

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and, finally, as stated very clearly in the UA, MDC does not wish to host threads about harsh sleep training methods. let's keep this discussion to alternatives please.

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#20 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If she doesn't take a nap, what happens? Is the rest of the day completely miserable with constant melt-downs? I'm just trying to see why it would be so important for her to continue taking a nap that you are at this point.
Yes, this is pretty much what happens. Her judgement goes out the window, she melts down over everything, acts very irrationally(she is normally very calm and sweet) and yawns but just doesn't go to sleep, she fights it big time. It sucks because she used to fall aslepp NO PROBlem....
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#21 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really want to get across the idea that I am not holding down to a bed or anything crazy like that, I am just holding her in my arms when she is VISIBLY tired and when she tries to get down I just don't let her and she does get mad but very quickly falls asleep after that drinking her baba while I am holding her in my lap the whole time, soothing her and kissing her and rocking her.

I feel very torn about the crying, like I said, it goes against everything I have been doing her WHOLE life, but I can't argue with the results either.
I mean today, for example, she was visibly tired, being irrational about her lunch, wanting it one plate then another and pitching a fit when I finally just put the leftovers in the fridge.
I got her baba ready and her blankie and put her in my lap and she started to drink her milk and then wanted to get up again but I didn't let her, she cried for about 60 seconds and then settled back in and fell asleep within 5mins.....

Yes there is the possibilty that she doesn't need a nap everyday and if it seemed like it wasn't going to happen I would def. let her down and figure out what to do from there, but I can't imagine many days where it would be a good idea to let her stumble around exhausted until 7-8pm......


I really want to do the right thing here!
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#22 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, I will be the dissenting vote. I do not believe in physical restraining a child unless there is a really good reason to do. I know myself I completely panic if someone tries to physically restrain me. It is a completely horrible feeling! If I am picturing this right you are holding her completely still while she screams and freaks out? What website am I on again?
It would be more helpful if you gave me any ideas about what to do instead? If you have better ideas I will try them!
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#23 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 05:58 PM
 
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Have you tried doing quiet time instead?

We've done it in a few different ways. We've done stories on the couch where I read books and we just cuddle for ~30 minutes. We've also done it where we lay down in my bed with the lights out/low and read some books and then "rest". We've also, on days where she needs to rest but just can't, put on a movie and she sits with a blanket on the couch and vegges.

Being quiet and still for 20 to 45 minutes was enough to get us through the afternoon. At first it meant she went to bed earlier, but as she adjusted to not napping and got used to it and went back to her normal bedtime.
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#24 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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I really want to get across the idea that I am not holding down to a bed or anything crazy like that, I am just holding her in my arms when she is VISIBLY tired and when she tries to get down I just don't let her and she does get mad but very quickly falls asleep after that drinking her baba while I am holding her in my lap the whole time, soothing her and kissing her and rocking her.
This is what we do at night sometimes. If DD is really tired she gets wired and has meltdowns every 10 minutes, but she just can't stop moving. If I hold her it makes her angry, but at the same time calms her down. She'll look at me screech and flail for a minute or two, then sigh and go back to the boob for a minute or two and then repeat. Usually after 10-15 minutes she stops crying and just boobs to sleep. I'd rather not do it, but it gets her to sleep when she can't herself there, I'm not leaving her alone and if I let her stay awake she'd be crying just as much and be tired to boot.

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#25 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:04 PM
 
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Yes there is the possibilty that she doesn't need a nap everyday and if it seemed like it wasn't going to happen I would def. let her down and figure out what to do from there, but I can't imagine many days where it would be a good idea to let her stumble around exhausted until 7-8pm......


I really want to do the right thing here!

She will adjust. Everyone I know went through 1 to 2 weeks of a tired cranky kid as their kid dropped their nap. It doesn't seem to matter if that happens at 2 or 5. Their bodies need to adjust. I've met more than 1 kindergarten kid who was dropping their nap and was a mess for a week or two.

I would say that you might do more harm than good in making sleep something you fight about with her. I know that we fought with DD for longer than we should have because everyone told us that she was "too young" to drop her nap. And it seriously affected how easily she went to sleep at night. Once we stopped fighting it took awhile for things to return to normal. But they did. Somedays she'd fall asleep on the couch and I'd mover her to her bed. Other days she'd just rest and would be fine. And there were days where she was miserable.
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#26 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:13 PM
 
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I think you are doing fine, mama. My DS is just a couple of months younger than your DD and he DEFINITELY still needs his naps. I know all children are different, but if she's having meltdowns and is exhausted until her normal bedtime then she's clearly not ready to drop her afternoon nap.

You aren't leaving her to cry, you aren't holding her down on her bed, you are cuddling her and loving her and encouraging her to fall asleep. I don't know what else you could do?
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#27 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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Well I just wanted to say that some kids who get on sensory overload need some decompression. Sometimes being held, while the kid might emotionally get irritated and want to be let go, their bodies might need some help in that department. That pressure to decompress and calm down enough to let their body stop long enough to sleep. What about trying to snuggle with her under a heavy blanket reading some books if you have a hard time with the crying, otherwise, if the naps are continuing and the time it is taking her to fall asleep is decreasing, sounds like you are on the right track. We hold infants tightly and rock and bounce them, even if they are screaming and crying, why not older babies. 22 months is still a baby in many ways.
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#28 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:53 PM
 
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gees, a minute or two of protest is hardly crying it out and five minutes of holding them is hardly tieing them down. clearly she needs the sleep (or she would not be sleeping)...not every child knows how to wind down on their own.

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#29 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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Another thought I had...hyave you considered moving her nap time up some? it sounds like she is getting over tired.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#30 of 119 Old 10-08-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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gees, a minute or two of protest is hardly crying it out and five minutes of holding them is hardly tieing them down. clearly she needs the sleep (or she would not be sleeping)...not every child knows how to wind down on their own.

That's the exact same argument I've heard from every person I know who does CIO.

Why don't we give kids a bit more credit and figure out that in general they will sleep when tired without being forced to.

Many people have good success with creating a quiet sleepy environment and then doing a quiet time in which their child rests or eventually falls asleep.
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