Chicken pox is going around dd's school. And there have been a couple cases in her class. Yesterday she had a single pimple thingy on her neck. Not itchy. She doesn't notice. Tonight (more than 24 hours later) she has one more pimple on her chest. Not itchy at all. No fever.
So.....I am not sure that it is even the chicken pox.....
So, my question is...if your child has two tiny spots and NO fever and NO itching....would you keep them home or send them to school?
If you child had chicken pox would you still bring them ToT?
What a crappy time to get them if it is chicken pox....(but that isn't my question....)
update: I kept her home today from school. Still two spots and no fever. We will wait and see in the morning....
Update: one of dd's classmates/friends has chicken pox today....her mom said it is her built in Halloween costume.
Additional question: what if I only ToT to people I ask first and either they a)don't mind being exposed b) got the vax and feel safe c) have already had the cp ?
Also...I am curious, and not many people have answered.....would you also keep siblings home assuming they have the CP soon too?
Originally Posted by momtoS
We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.
Yay! I am so glad you found a solution. Have fun tonight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EviesMom
It's an illness, spreading it is not a sociable thing to do, and parents of children who die are devastated no matter what they died of. That's not what I said you're incorrect about. CP is not, and has never been, a quarrantinable illness, which is what I quibble with in your statements.
I'm pretty sure that in the US CP was removed from the executive order of quarantinable illnesses be Reagan in the 80's. It was part of a revision the CDC requested to include some new haemorrhagic fevers.
Originally Posted by EviesMom
And how many do you think die of infections in minor playground wounds? Of basic colds and complications of them? I bet it's a lot lot higher. Regular flu kills far more children than that a year. CP is not a killer any more than any of the other illnesses I listed- cold, stomach flu, run-of-the-mill kid illnesses.
It's an illness, spreading it is not a sociable thing to do, and parents of children who die are devastated no matter what they died of. That's not what I said you're incorrect about. CP is not, and has never been, a quarrantinable illness, which is what I quibble with in your statements.
Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.
I got CP in 1976, during the Bicentennial celebrations. My school planned a huge pageant, and I had a special outfit, and then I got CP. I was over it, every pox was scabbed over and most were off, and my mom had to get the doctor to convince the principal of my school to let me back in with three scabs still on my face so I could participate, because the policy was "smooth skin to return to school" and they were hardcore about it.
I still can not for the life of me understand how anyone can possibly argue that it is OK to bring an infectious kid with chicken pox to school, trick-or-treating, or any other place.
It has nothing to due with how nasty of an illness it is. It has nothing to do with people's vax status. It does not even have anything to do with other people's immune system. It's just not a thoughtful, caring thing to do to the sick child and the rest of the community.
Originally Posted by AbbieB
If your kid is sick, keep him/her home.
I ran a new mother's support group for many years in Atlanta. New mothers sometimes brought their sick babies to group because they were so desperate to see other moms. Near riots would ensue when the mom of the sick baby would say..."so and so is sick today so we won't share toys". Sigh... and I as the "leader/facilitator" would have to ask them to leave. Come back when baby is well. Please join us when both of you are well.
Originally Posted by savithny
Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.
Huh. I honestly didn't think there had ever been a quarantine for CP. I'm surprised.
Originally Posted by savithny
Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.
I got CP in 1976, during the Bicentennial celebrations. My school planned a huge pageant, and I had a special outfit, and then I got CP. I was over it, every pox was scabbed over and most were off, and my mom had to get the doctor to convince the principal of my school to let me back in with three scabs still on my face so I could participate, because the policy was "smooth skin to return to school" and they were hardcore about it.
That is interesting. When it went around when I was in the 7-8th grade everyone else in my class and the most of the school had it as well and we all went back to school still very scabby. I remember it well because I got called athletes foot face by one of the boys who had just as many scabs as me
It just wasnt a big deal at all. I missed no school over it because mine developed during Christmas vacation. But the ones that did have it during regular school time only missed a few days to a week.
As for keeping a sibling home who was showing no symptoms no way could I do that with dd because of the very stricked attendance rules at the school 12 days is all they can miss unexcused or not or they fail. There is an appeals thing you can do but from what I have heard they usually refuse to back down.
IT's a book of public health laws passed in the US by the states during 1915.
Flipping through it, I see state after state law requiring quarantine for measles, mumps, diptheria, chicken pox.
Check out page 188 and following. The state of Illinois required immediate reporting to the local health authorities of all cases of chicken pox. Placards were then affixed to each outside entrance of the house, 10x15 inches, declaring that there was pox within. The affected child was confined to that building for 2 weeks, or until skin was smooth. All other children in the family were confined to that building for 2 weeks from date of last exposure.
Quarantine for whooping cough was EIGHT weeks from first "whoop." Other children who had not had whooping cough were excluded from school and supposed to be kept home for 2 weeks.
Measles patients were quarantined for 14 days from the beginning of the disease, and were excluded from school for 3 weeks from the onset of disease.
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines. Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?
Originally Posted by IntrovertExtrovert
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines. Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?
Actually, that is mentioned in most real historical research/theses that I have read as being *vitally* important for middle-to-upper class women to enter the workforce as a default.
A lot of people belive horribly oversimplified things about women's history in the US. The economic feminist movement was *never* about making WOHMs "more prevalent" (the US has always had a very strong population of women gainfully employed anyway, and the poor and women of color have almost always worked since colonial times pretty much.), but about trying to ensure our long history of extreme wage discrimination and some of the labor laws that were meant to try to keep women from being compensated adequately were changed.
But yeah, the advances of modern medicine and their mainstream application have been HUGELY influential in allowing mothers of young children to work in a wider variety of jobs than was previously open to them.
Originally Posted by IntrovertExtrovert
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines. Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?
I could be wrong, but I think your still supposed to keep a child with whooping cough at home for that long unless you use antibiotics. When dd1 caught it we did use antibiotics and still had to stay at home for five days. My grandma was from a family of 16 children and she has talked about once there was pretty much an entire year where someone in her family was quarantined because of whooping cough.
Originally Posted by felix23
I could be wrong, but I think your still supposed to keep a child with whooping cough at home for that long unless you use antibiotics. When dd1 caught it we did use antibiotics and still had to stay at home for five days. My grandma was from a family of 16 children and she has talked about once there was pretty much an entire year where someone in her family was quarantined because of whooping cough.
you do realize that the financial ramifications of 5 days vs 56days is huge. So, yes, you do have to kid said child home for 5 days, but previously, it would have been 8 weeks. Huge huge difference,
Originally Posted by mommy2maya
you do realize that the financial ramifications of 5 days vs 56days is huge. So, yes, you do have to kid said child home for 5 days, but previously, it would have been 8 weeks. Huge huge difference,
I never said it wasn't. I was just saying that if you aren't going to use antibiotics, you need to be willing to stay at home for a long time. And even with antibiotics you have to stay at home for five days. I found that most people didn't know that. I had people calling me up wanting to go places a couple of days after she had gone to the dr, because they thought that the second she was on medicine she would be okay.
Wow...I really appreciate everyone's input. It has, for the most part, been a really good thread to read.
I honestly didn't realize that so many people were so afraid of chicken pox and considered it deadly. I think of it as a childhood thing....like teething....or falling off a bike. No fear of it. I realize that a very very very small amount of children die from it. But children also die from falling off their bikes and hitting their head. etc. (true story...my uncle slipped and fell putting out his garbage...bumped his head. Bled in his brain and died 36 hours later....) I guess I don't see it as some do.....I definitely don't live in fear of CP.
We did Trick or Treat last night with people's advance approval. It was pouring rain and hailing so we drove. We went to the grandparents, my sister and two of my aunts houses. All great loot bags. Then went to our three neighbours houses (who both have children with chicken pox...but they were all out with friends ToT'ing) and got more loot bags. And as for the fear of passing it on while walking down the side walk.....the weather was so bad...there weren't any other people out when we went....(before 6pm).
We didn't go to gymnastics.
Not going to school on Monday. Or To our group on Tuesday night, on to our appointment on Wednesday, or swimming Wednesday night.
On Thursday we will have to re-evaluate for school.....
She has about 8 spots right now. No fever. No itching. I am kind of hoping her little sister gets it so we can get it over with.
Originally Posted by IntrovertExtrovert
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines. Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?
A lot of poor women always worked. But they did piecework from their homes, or they had neighbors or relations watching the kids. If your mom or MIL lived with you, you had a built in sitter. Also, if you had a kid every 2 years or so, by the time the oldest was 8 or 10, you had a built-in sitter. Or you lived in a tenement, or in a place with housing much closer together than it is in modern suburbs, and you just had someone keep an eye on the house for you.
And I'm guessing that a lot of women who worked outside the house left sick kids home alone, too. Of course, the data show that those kids were more likely to die of the sequelae of illness too, without supportive care like someone making them eat and drink.
Actually I did get alot out of this thread. Even though I see this illness just as a childhood illness and for most people nothing serious...I realize now that alot of people are really afraid of this illness, and that they view it as a *killer* or *deadly* something I didn't consider.
I didn't send my dd out trick or treating to *unknowing* people. I called in advance and made sure no one else would be there.
This thread has made me think of the day a nurse tried force the CP vaccine on me. She said that children die everyday from it and wouldn't I feel guilty if I killed my child. I thought she was being totally hysterical about the risks....but now realize for alot of people....that is how they feel.
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with anything out to large community functions where you can infect others.
Originally Posted by sunanthem
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with anything out to large community functions where you can infect others.
Have you read through the thread? I didn't bring my daughter out into the community. I brought her to family members houses (in a car) and then to other houses that also have chicken pox and I called first.
My children all had cp when they were little, and I'm glad. But I would be ticked off if someone gave it them knowingly without letting me know. I was a sahm, so I could deal with it. But if I had to take a month off work (which is how long we stayed home with 3 kids getting it), it would have been devasting financially and career wise. I agree with the rest of the posters, if my kids are sick, they stay home - period. For their sake and everyone else's. I thought about this last night as I passed out candy. I hope none of them had cp or swine flu!
Originally Posted by momtoS
Actually I did get alot out of this thread. Even though I see this illness just as a childhood illness and for most people nothing serious...I realize now that alot of people are really afraid of this illness, and that they view it as a *killer* or *deadly* something I didn't consider.
I didn't send my dd out trick or treating to *unknowing* people. I called in advance and made sure no one else would be there.
This thread has made me think of the day a nurse tried force the CP vaccine on me. She said that children die everyday from it and wouldn't I feel guilty if I killed my child. I thought she was being totally hysterical about the risks....but now realize for alot of people....that is how they feel.
so...what haven't i learned from this thread that you would like meto have?
Um. When most people have talked about it being deadly, they have not been talking about healthy little Timmy down the street so much as potentially immuno-compromised neighbors, older neighbors, etc ... people for whom that CP can be devastating is absolutely not the irrational fear you appear to be painting it as. And I think that's where the impression that you didn't get very much out of this thread is coming from.
Also that there is a certain level of common courtesy to be observed when it comes to infectious diseases, which has not a lot to do with whether it is potentially deadly or not.
Originally Posted by momtoS
Have you read through the thread? I didn't bring my daughter out into the community. I brought her to family members houses (in a car) and then to other houses that also have chicken pox and I called first.
I've been reading it daily, and I am amazed it has had to get this long!
I am so glad that you came up with a solution since Toting was so important to you and your child. I'm hoping the next time your children are ill you will remember to keep them home.
Originally Posted by momtoS
I honestly didn't realize that so many people were so afraid of chicken pox and considered it deadly. I think of it as a childhood thing....like teething....or falling off a bike. No fear of it. I realize that a very very very small amount of children die from it. But children also die from falling off their bikes and hitting their head. etc. (true story...my uncle slipped and fell putting out his garbage...bumped his head. Bled in his brain and died 36 hours later....) I guess I don't see it as some do.....I definitely don't live in fear of CP.
While you may not live in fear of chicken pox there are others that must because of other health conditions that makes the threat of chicken very real and very serious. The way I see it, while my child may have been disappointed because she missed trick or treating that does not give me the right to take my contagious child out into the public and expose people who could be severy impacted because of my choice. My daughter's right to candy does not trump the immunocompromised person's right to not be unknowingly exposed to the chicken pox. I don't see this as being any different than making sure that my daughter does not bring anything with peanut bitter to school where she is in a class with a child who suffers from a peanut allergy. While peanut butter might not be something my family views as something to fear in my home I understand that it is a fear for many others. Missing one halloween is something that will quickly be forgotten with time.
Originally Posted by IntrovertExtrovert
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines. Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild
Actually, that is mentioned in most real historical research/theses that I have read as being *vitally* important for middle-to-upper class women to enter the workforce as a default.
A lot of people belive horribly oversimplified things about women's history in the US. The economic feminist movement was *never* about making WOHMs "more prevalent" (the US has always had a very strong population of women gainfully employed anyway, and the poor and women of color have almost always worked since colonial times pretty much.), but about trying to ensure our long history of extreme wage discrimination and some of the labor laws that were meant to try to keep women from being compensated adequately were changed.
But yeah, the advances of modern medicine and their mainstream application have been HUGELY influential in allowing mothers of young children to work in a wider variety of jobs than was previously open to them.
From a feminist perspective, why would vaccines make a difference? There's no reason a father can't stay home to look after a sick child. It doesn't have to be the mother who misses/missed work. If vaccines made it that much more possible for women to work/keep their jobs, then it doesn't sound like feminism has made much difference at all. Vaccines shouldn't be a mother's issue.
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Thank you for re-opening this thread. Although it has been a heated discussion I think that posters from both sides have brought up good points and have helped me make a decision for Trick or Treating. I did post question though that were not well answered....let's continue the discussion....
Originally Posted by sunanthem
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with anything out to large community functions where you can infect others.
Exactly. Chicken Pox is not "deadly" to the vast majority of people who get it. HOWEVER it is NOT "no big deal," to many, many people. THe point was not that you were going to wander the neighborhood killing old ladies, the point is that it is really rude to knowingly expose people to a very infectious communicable disease that has potentially serious effects on pregnant women, fetuses, small babies, and old people.
And for me, the point is that if you don't believe in vaccinating your children, if you are advocating, through that act, a return to the way things were before widespread vaccinations, then you should behave the way people used to when those diseases were widespread in the population by being aware that while widespread, they are still serious, and you should take care of sick children by giving them lots of rest at home, and you should be courteous to the general population.
Originally Posted by savithny
the point is that it is really rude to knowingly expose people to a very infectious communicable disease that has potentially serious effects on pregnant women, fetuses, small babies, and old people.
And for me, the point is that if you don't believe in vaccinating your children, if you are advocating, through that act, a return to the way things were before widespread vaccinations, then you should behave the way people used to when those diseases were widespread in the population by being aware that while widespread, they are still serious, and you should take care of sick children by giving them lots of rest at home, and you should be courteous to the general population.
I did call everyone ahead of time. Everyone was more than okay with us coming over and we also got loot bags from neighbours who's children also had chicken pox (although they all went out with friends like usual). We did not go around to potentially spread it.
I guess....I don't understand how I was not courteous to the general population? I had NO contact with unknowing people, I had no contact with people that didn't consent to us coming over. We didn't walk past people on the sidewalk, etc.
Can you please clarify if you still think I should have stayed in my own house last night?
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