Ear Piercing: Please debate! - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 143 Old 03-14-2004, 01:26 AM
 
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I was not refering to the choice to pierce due to cultural ties as vague....the explanation of culture itself was vague.
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#122 of 143 Old 03-14-2004, 01:28 AM
 
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This is the point where I personally feel like I have gotten what I need in this discussion and I bid goodbye respectfully. \

Take care all mommas, those who do and those who don't
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#123 of 143 Old 03-16-2004, 02:26 AM
 
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Quote:
"How can you pierce your children without their consent? I want to know what makes you believe that you are in charge of this decision."
I think jeca put it pretty much how I was going to make my point.
Exept I would have added that I thought *I DID* answer this in a earlier post where I stated that The LORD gave these children to ME to raise & I am accountable only to Him, so I *am* In charge of ALL their decissions till they are of legal age & reason. If it is something I deem not harmfull to them, and I feel is a good choice for them... so be it.

Hope hat helps shed some light on my stance...
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#124 of 143 Old 03-16-2004, 10:54 PM
 
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"It's not irreversable as you may like to believe "

Aarrrghhhh! How many times do I have to say this??? YES FOR SOME PEOPLE IT IS IRREVERSIBLE! I had mine done, I have not worn earrings in 5 years and they have not closed over. AT ALL! I tried last night just for the heck of it and the earring went right in. and it is a visible hole mark on my ear, a little scar on what would have been perfectly natural looking ears. I don't like earrings, I think they look incredibly tacky (on myself, just my opinion). But I am still left with these holes. It has nothing to do with what I may like to believe it is what I KNOW!

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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#125 of 143 Old 03-16-2004, 11:06 PM
 
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Heavenly, I heard you say it the first time and wasnt there someone else too? and Not only do you KNoW the holes are there you Know in your heart when it was done it was a violation to you- not something you wanted, not something very useful or needed to keep you healthy either. Thank goodness you can at least grow from this act that was done to you and be aware of it's potential effects on your kids . - to stop the chain of violence, imo.
Laura
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#126 of 143 Old 03-16-2004, 11:31 PM
 
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Ya know i find the idea that god gave us these children to raise and so i can make their decisions for them... an excuse, an easy excuse to cling to---It's not my opinion that I can do what i want to these kids because they're MINE. I dont think they are mine.
God gave them to me to care for and to appreciate as humans, gifts in my care until they can safely go out on their own. Where does altering a body with a hole for adornment with jewelry come in to "caring for" ?????
As far as Vague goes: I think we are refering to reasons that omit/ overlook health concerns, since usually when we break the skin and flesh of a child it is for serious health decisions. not for vanitys sake. why are cultural piercing done anyway??? for health reasons??? I find it unlikely that even the cultures whose customs go way back thru the ages use piercing on girls to keep them physically healthy. of course, emotionally healthy is certainly another thing, yet I would expect a mother who chooses to follow this line of thinking to be deeply involved w/ her customs so as to not have an inkling about self-love or self-appreciation without the necesity of physical altering.
You know, the kind of Patriarchal societies we all know of.
I'm thinking that most americans and Europeans have enough understanding-no matter what their culture is to at-least consider letting a child be just a child not a conformed gender-type.

Laura
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#127 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 01:43 AM
 
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#128 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 01:47 AM
 
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Alegria that was the best...I needed a laugh.
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#129 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 01:49 AM
 
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no, i'm serious, cuff me and take me away now. I am a terrorist
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#130 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 02:25 AM
 
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Alegria- THANK YOU!!! :
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#131 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 02:57 AM
 
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None of the pro-piercing moms have addressed the issue of alleged disrespect for their children's bodies....wondering how you all feel about that.

How can you pierce your babies and then honestly feel that you respect their bodies as their own? Don't you see how disrespectful it is to alter a person's body without their permission? Even if the hole will close over, they are still left with scars on otherwise perfect ears. What kind of message are you sending to your child about their bodies? Is it a message that they need to be altered/scarred/jeweled to be acceptable? How can you scar them for life (no pun intended) without asking them? I just don't understand the logic there.... :
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#132 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 03:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alegria
I confess, I have violated my daughter when she was so helpless, I abused her . what disrespect I've shown her.

Uhhh....yup.
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#133 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally posted by Lucysmama
None of the pro-piercing moms have addressed the issue of alleged disrespect for their children's bodies....wondering how you all feel about that.

How can you pierce your babies and then honestly feel that you respect their bodies as their own? Don't you see how disrespectful it is to alter a person's body without their permission? Even if the hole will close over, they are still left with scars on otherwise perfect ears. What kind of message are you sending to your child about their bodies? Is it a message that they need to be altered/scarred/jeweled to be acceptable? How can you scar them for life (no pun intended) without asking them? I just don't understand the logic there.... :
I do not think piercing a whole in a baby's ear is a mutilation. (Anymore than an adult getting herself 20 piercings in her ear is.) I do think cutting off the pieces of genitals is.

Here is what I don't get.

If adults get themselves pierced? Aren't they "mutilating" themselves by your logic? EVEN with full consent! If you are saying it's a mutilation, THEN it's a mutilation. Period.

"How can you pierce YOUR body and then honestly feel that you respect yourself?

Don't you see how disrespectful it is to yourself to do that?

Even if the hole closes over, you are still left with scars on an otherwise perfect body.

What kind of message are you sending to your child if you are covered in piercings?

Is it a message that you need to be altered/scarred/jeweled to be acceptable?

And back to something I brought up way back, was it psychologist Alice ******, who proposed that piercings WAS an unconscious form of self-hatred. Why are women willing (gleefully) piercing their own nipples?

~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~

I really don't care that adult women are covered in piercing (from their breasts to their genitals) and tatoos. It is your body, but if you are calling a piercing a "mutilation" well..... I don't see how you can't see the possibility in adult piercings.

No adult self-piercer wants to admit that they have caused harm to themselves (or even CONSIDER the possibility. It's all good in their eyes). They just don't see it that way. Is it any surprise that mothers who pierce their daughters don't either? Why is that so hard to understand?

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#134 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 11:52 AM
 
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CK's mama, the ONLY thing I don't like about my infant piercing was that the hole didn't stay centered. It moved. That's why I hated it growing up. And maybe hate is too strong of a word. Because I did (do) love earrings. I just hated it wasn't centered. Otherwise, I personally don't care that it was done.

I wouldn't do it to my own DD, because I don't think that they "need" it to be beautiful.

But I also can't see the strong need (7 pages long) to "be right" in this case. It just seems a bit self-righteous, misplaced and an overreaction.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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#135 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 03:57 PM
 
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Oh, so lock me up I usedthe WRONG word to attempt to define This act of puting an ear-ring hole in a young childs ear. Mutilation.
: You can Call it what you want and those words you choose will be helpful in justifying putting HOLEs in EARS , You can Call it cute, Nothing big, just little, Harmless, not permanant, quickly done, Whatever...
The thing that either you choose to not see or truly cant since the argument goes back and forth without anyone budginng or truly answering the question of Altering a young childs body w/o GOOD reason??? It it a good reason to do because it's cute? or is it just perfectly okay to alter an ear cause, hey its just an ear:
I dont understand how anyone could be so flippant and sarcastic over any part of thier childs body. Its their body. not yours.
this is just hopeless. I guess you cant Open a mind that's tightly closed by it's own ego.
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#136 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 04:04 PM
 
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I've chosen not to pierce dd's ears. I remeber when I got mine done ( I was probably 12 or so) that it hurt and burned. I did not want to do this to dd until she could make the decision to get it done herself.

She's very girly and LOVES dresses (I'm more of a tomboy ) and asks about getting it done so that she can wear earrings like some other little girls in her preschool class.

I tell her that when she wants to, that's fine, but be aware that it hurts and they use a needle to do it. She qiuckly backs off and says that maybe, on second thought, she doesn't quite want to do it yet. Maybe when she's mommy's age.:LOL
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#137 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 04:25 PM
 
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I never thought anything of getting a baby's ears pierced until I read a post on another, now defunct, message board years ago by a woman whose ears were pierced when she was a child and she was pretty upset about it. The same way I would not tattoo a newborn, I would not pierce one's ears. My ears are pierced, I love earrings, but I am not going to assume that my daughter will feel the same way. I've met more and more women lately that do not have pierced ears and do not want them.

Also, the holes do not always close up. The woman I'm speaking of had not worn earrings in years, I cannot remember how long, and the holes were still open. My ears were pierced when I was three and one fell out. I was afraid that it would hurt as bad as it did when they were pierced if my mom put the earring back in, so she just took the other one out. I still have the scars, and it had only been a week when my mom took them out. I had my ears pierced a second time about five years ago and only wore studs in them for about a year. The holes are still open.

I chose to have them pierced again when I was seven, and it was kind of like a rite of passage for me. When I had my ears pierced a second time, I was surprised at how much it hurt. No way would I do that to a baby.

I will say, though, that I'm surprised at how much I want to have my daughter's ears pierced. But they are not my ears to pierce. If she wants them pierced when she is older, I'll have it done at a professional piercing shop with a needle, not with a gun that cannot be properly sterilized.
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#138 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 04:28 PM
 
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One more thing-- it doesn't just sting and it is over. My ears burned for a long time after I got them pierced a second time. They were very tender for several days.
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#139 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 04:47 PM
 
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I am very PRO ear peircing, so you can flame away if you need to , but I think it's cooler than makeup, or Barbies, or those tiny high heels, on the whole feminine body tip.

I love to see a baby girl with her ears peirced! I got my dd's peirced at 9 mo. Yes it was early(I didn't get peirced till 7 yrs old) But you'd really be surprised at how quick and easy it was for her.
The lady who did it was very experienced.

She marked the spot. Peirced one. Bam and the other and I immediatly went nurse poor lil dd and in two minutes or so she was all better. She never cried a bit from it, and I was glad I did it and glad I did it then too.

It was much easier to treat them with HPeroxide at that age, an d no worries that she would pull on them, play with them, or pull them out.

She does not play with Barbies(which i think are way worse than having earings) and does not wear tiny high heels, or have tiny sets of makeup.

I teach her about repecting her body and how wearing expensive outifts or ones that show body parts(bellie shirts) are not good and why, and I let her make up her own mind with the info I give her.

Girl power is great and It's good to know when to draw the line, but there is nothing wrong with being feminine.
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#140 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 05:19 PM
 
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My daughters will make that decision for themselves.
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#141 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mothra
I will say, though, that I'm surprised at how much I want to have my daughter's ears pierced. But they are not my ears to pierce. If she wants them pierced when she is older, I'll have it done at a professional piercing shop with a needle, not with a gun that cannot be properly sterilized.
Me too me too! Well except I mean for my ds I think it would be very cute to see an earring on Orion! But not my body, so hence, not my choice (you know on non health issues).

No, my 12 piercings and 15+ hours of tattooing are NOT mutilation!

Quote:
from dictionary.com
mu·ti·late ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mytl-t)
tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, mu·ti·lates
To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1.
To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.
I do not believe I am "disfiguring by damaging irreparably" my own body. I LIKE all of my pierings and tattoos. However if you pierced someone who did NOT want a piercing then YES it would be multilation.

And again Tanibani, although I know you said earlier it was just an interesting thing to ponder, it bothers me greatly to again hear "self hatred" is the reason for piercings. How could some psychologist KNOW what it was about for EVERYONE? Are tribal cultures who have been doing tattoos and piercings for centuries all hateful? There must be an awful lot of self hate in our culture to look around at all the people with at least an ear piercing! Yes maybe Alice ****** has dealt with individuals who HAVE gotten piercings because they hate themselves. But not EVERYONE does! If her opinion is piercings/tattoos are ugly or disfiguring well they yes of course she (or anyone with that thinking) wouldn't understand why someone would choose to do that and think "It MUST be because they hate themselves!". However, if you see piercings and tattoos as adornment, as BEAUTIFICATION, then how, or why would you think that its "self hatred"?

Lisa, mama to Orion (7) , Fiona Star (born sleeping @ 38wks 12/6/08) , our bitty (m/c 7/27/09) , and Charlotte Athena (11/5/10)
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#142 of 143 Old 03-17-2004, 07:35 PM
 
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it is simply a question of choice.

it is not ok to make a permanent physical alteration to someone who cannot choose for no reason beyond vanity (and yes, just wanting to fit in to some cultural stereotype is vanity)

it wouldnt matter if it were a hole in the ear or grotesque facial tattoo. babies cannot choose.

i am a christian, but i dont believe i own my children. i do think God made them perfect in every way. i would never permanently alter their precious bodies.

you know, the US simply has no place for children's rights. It is sickening. Adults can beat, and cut, and verbally abuse their children, and its "OK" cause the kids are the parents property. It was the same before the US recognized African Americans as equally human- and women- i hope in my heart it is only a matter of time before children are given the same rights as everyone else.

tabitha

Hi, I'm Tabitha. I'm a homeschooling mother of four: ds (11) dd (9) ds (7) ds (5) And I'm expecting a fifth in 2014! Find me at http://www.omelay.blogspot.com
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#143 of 143 Old 03-18-2004, 06:00 PM
 
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It's a cruel thing to do to a baby. Period.
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