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At my wits end with oldest ds

9K views 142 replies 74 participants last post by  EFmom 
#1 ·
He's 20 and will NOT quit smoking in the house and it it making me want to really really smack him.

I wake up in the middle of the night because I can smell it - he's downstairs smoking. He smokes while I'm at work. I tell him not to and he says OK and then just keeps doing it. I've reasoned with him, gotten mad at him, thrown out his smokes, his lighter, not spoken to him for days, nothing works. He spends a few days smoking in the garage and next thing I know he's back in the house. How do I punish an adult who simply ignores the rules like that??? He works 35 or so hours a week and other than that he's home almost all the time, in the basement, playing WoW. And smoking. My house smells disgusting and I am SICK of it. Right now I just want to puke the smell is so gross.

I can't make him do anything - that simply doesn't work. Hasn't for a few years now. I need to come up with a way to make him want to do it, or for it to be more uncomfortable for him to do not it than do it, if I want him to do anything.
 
#27 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sancta View Post
Yes. If I had asked him repeatedly to stop, if it bothered my lungs, affected our children, etc., yet he continued to persist doing something he KNEW offended us and hurt us. Because you know what? That would mean we would NOT have a great relationship. It would mean I thought we had a great relationship on my end, but on his end he was happy just to do as he pleased, make empty promises, and walk all over me.

That's just disrespectful.

And this too. My dad was a heavy smoker my entire life, but he NEVER smoked inside. Mom did not allow it, and he agreed because EVERYONE in the household deserves respect.
 
#29 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I do think it is a legitiamte concern. I would have been seriously alienated if I was kicked out. I have a friend whose parents insisted she stand on her own two feet at a time when she was not ready - and she felt quite abandonned. It is still an issue years later. TBH the families I know where kids are "kicked out" (often simply because they are 18) are not close..
No one is talking about kicking a child out to force him to stand on his own feet, or due to age. Surely a 20 yo realizes how disrespectfully he is acting. Surely he knows he is not treating his mother and siblings well.

I wonder if he would smoke in anyone else's home against their wishes?
 
#30 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship?
Yes I would. If my husband was willing to be that disrespectful, I would say that we no longer had a "great relationship".
 
#31 ·
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Originally Posted by cschick View Post
Most people are suggesting that he be offered a choice: follow the rules of the household, or find somewhere else to live where he doesn't have to follow those rules. There's a difference between saying you're 18 so get out, and you're 18 and if you want to continue to live here, you need to follow the house rules or you need to leave.
I think most people are framing the choice this way because there aren't a lot of other "consequences" that can be imposed in this situation. If the young man doesn't care that his actions are disrespectful and potentially harmful to the other residents, then what logical consequence can be imposed?

I agree that he should show the OP the respect of not smoking in her house, just as he (hopefully) would not smoke in a mall, church, or a friend's home without permission. If he will not agree to it and abide by the rules, then he should be parented out of the home, as a PP suggested. With emotional, not financial, support.

Good luck OP. Relationships are really complex and I hope that your son will be mature enough to do his part in fixing the situation.
 
#32 ·
As a former smoker, and a person who believes that a person has a right to smoke in their own home, car, or in a public space (this is not allowed where I live); I do think that your son is being horribly disrespectful by not honoring your request to smoke outside.

I agree with previous posters that you should sit down and speak with him. Let him know that you would like him to only smoke outside. If he cannot or will not respect your request then he has 30 days to look for another place to live. I would not make it an "I will throw you out" situation. Rather, I will help you look for a place to rent, help you pack, help you move.

Another thought, he maybe 'dirtying the nest'. In other words he want to makes his own rules, his own decisions, even move out but is unable to make the move on his own so instead he is attempting to force your hand.
 
#33 ·
My mom smoked for awhile when I was a kid (she stopped before I was born and restarted when I was 13). She never, ever, smoked in the house.

As for "what if it was your husband?" Honestly, I can say that I would not have married a smoker if he was smoking at the time I met him, and I'd marry with the understanding that our house was a smoke-free zone and any future smoking by ANYONE would be done outdoors.

I would be tempted to install a smoke-activated sprinkler system in my basement, frankly. When it shorts out the computer he's playing WoW on, it'll probably get his attention, since it sounds like he respects his WoW buddies more than his own mother.
 
#34 ·
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Originally Posted by SuzyLee View Post
Your house smelling like smoke (which it will... forever...) also really hurts the property value. Something to consider.

If telling him he can't smoke in the house will alienate him forever then you have bigger problems on your hands then jsut the smoking.
We are currently in the market for a new house, and I was thinking this exact thing! I won't even look at a house that's been smoked in. You can never really get that smell out of everything without replacing everything down to the drywall.

I agree with the pp's that have said the decision to quit or not is his--I'm sure you aren't happy with his decision to smoke, but it's his to make. Until he owns his own home, he's going to have to play by someone else's rules to an extent. Not smoking in the house is not an unreasonable or uncommon request from a landlord. You obviously love him and don't want to push him away, but mama, you are allowing another adult to disrespect you and your values in your own home. Your son is perfectly happy with the situation, but at what price to you?? Would you condone him treating his future spouse this way?
 
#35 ·
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Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution? I think that's a far more accurate comparison than asking what I'd do if he was a renter. At what age exactly does the gentle discipline end and the harda$$ parent emerge then? I'm not going to kick him out of the house just BOOM like that - surely people can take that at face value and try to offer constructive solutions instead of telling me if I won't kick him out I'm letting him walk all over me.

Thanks kathymuggle for understanding things. I guess I could try to argue my point here, but I'm at work and don't have the time. I guess I'll just figure it out on my own.
Basically this is a health issue, your health. People have gotten ill and died from second hand smoke. Your son is probably reacting to the issue like you're trying to tell him what to do because you're his mom instead of understanding that you don't want the toxic stuff in your house because you don't want to compromise your own health. Young adults feel the need to assert their autonomy. You don't have to kick him out just make him understand that the real issue is you don't want to be poisoned. Sit him down and say "hey I don't want to get sick or have health problems from toxic smoke. If you were a paying roommate or tenant I would have kicked you out, but you're my son. I know you wouldn't knowing poison my food, but this is poisoning the air I breath. If I feel self destructive and change my mind I'll let you know but until then don't smoke in the house."

We moved when I was pregnant and no one was allowed to smoke in our house after that. Our roommate, who paid one third of expenses, and any of his guests had to smoke outside. My DH was supposed to quit before my DD was born, but couldn't quite do it. He was still smoking maybe 3 cigs. a week. He smoked outside too. After my mom died from obstructive lung disease when my DD was 2 months old my DH had to change shirts and shower anytime he chose to smoke. I just got too upset if I smelled it on him. He quit when my DD turned 3. By that time it was an every once in awhile thing.
 
#36 ·
I'm continuing to read this thread and another thought popped into my mind.

I am a big studier of the concept of boundaries (having been raised with none myself, and having grown up with a really immature attitude until someone explained this whole boundaries thing to me)...and a question occurs to me that this term "great relationship" should be defined.

I am not being glib. Some people define "great relationship" as one where there is no conflict, no fighting, etc. But that could just mean that one person is being endlessly accommodating. Another way a relationship would be great is when both people get their needs met and when they have a conflict of needs/wants/desires, they have an attitude of respectfully trying to work it out, not just by paying lip service to it, but seriously trying to work it out.

But when I see that some of the responses to the infuriating behavior arre to "smack him" or "not speaking to him", I wonder if healthy assertiveness is not lacking, and that the "great relationship" could mean that conflict or the necessary negotiations are just being avoided.

I'm just thinking out loud here...it reminds me of things I've heard when people say about a couple "those two got divorced!! I can't believe it....they had such a great relationship! they never even so much as argued!!" Sometimes peace comes at too great a cost, and it not a healthy and sustainable peace.

This can't be easy. It sounds like we're beating up on you. But I come from this exact dynamic....the dynamic of peace-at-any-cost vs. conflict/confrontation = abandonment. Too extreme. It didn't serve me well. This new, assertive, healthy-boundaries thing does NOT come easy if you weren't raised that way. So I can empathize.
 
#37 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution?
When dating, smoking was a deal-breaker for me. I have problems with even cigarette particulates--they cause my allergies to flare up in rather nasty ways.

If my husband took up smoking at all at this point, that still would be a deal-breaker. It would be extremely disrespectful of me and my health.
 
#38 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
But he should be parented out of the house - not kicked out which does sound very harsh.
Oh, absolutely. There's a big difference between saying "That's IT!!! I've had it with the smoking- you've got until January 15th to find someplace else to live!" and saying "Look, we need to find a solution here. I can't live with smoke in my house. I love you, and I enjoy your company, but I'm very angry about the way you've been treating me and it's affecting our relationship. I'm feeling disrespected every time I smell smoke in the house, after you keep on promising to stop. If we can't find a way to live together respectfully, then maybe its' time you got your own place."

Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution?
Yes, I would. It wouldn't be "a great relationship" if he disrespected me and my health like that. I wouldn't even be able to enjoy his company at all if I was hacking and coughing every time he got within 10 feet of me.

Obviously, you're not as sensitive to cigarette smoke as I am, or you would be reacting differently to this whole situation. You would have set up different "ground rules" in the first place. And it's hard for me to fully comprehend exactly where you are now, since this exact same situation would feel very different to me.
 
#39 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution? I think that's a far more accurate comparison than asking what I'd do if he was a renter. At what age exactly does the gentle discipline end and the harda$$ parent emerge then? I'm not going to kick him out of the house just BOOM like that - surely people can take that at face value and try to offer constructive solutions instead of telling me if I won't kick him out I'm letting him walk all over me.

Thanks kathymuggle for understanding things. I guess I could try to argue my point here, but I'm at work and don't have the time. I guess I'll just figure it out on my own.
Oh yes. DH would be out in the cold. It is a serious health issue and expensive so spending money we don't have. And it's just disrespectful to inflict your bad habits on someone else despite their protests. That kind of self-centered behavior does not yield happy relationships.

I think maybe you and your DS aren't well suited as roommates right now at this stage of the game. So I would frame a 'find your own place' discussion in that light. It's not punitive. The fact is, neither of your needs are being met by living together.

Of course, if you can come up with some other stop gap measures then do so, but I would not encourage my child to live with me in the circumstances you have described.

V
 
#40 ·
I agree with Ruthla. I'd also make sure when you are talking to him about this that you're very clear that the problem is that he's smoking in the house, not that smoking is bad or that he's harming his health or any of the other ways you can think about this. Young men can have a whole "I'll do what I want!" mindset and do harmful things to themselves because they feel like it. You should make sure you're separating that (the harmful health stuff) from the boundary issue (you own the house, you should get to dictate whether it smells like smoke).

Be clear: your house, your rules. You're not telling him to stop smoking. You're telling him that you don't want your house smelling like smoke. If he can't respect that, then yeah, find an apartment. And it should be clear that it's his choice that is requiring the change.
 
#41 ·
Flat out kicking him out would be harsh, yes, but asking him to stop smoking in the house is completely reasonable. More than reasonable. Totally normal, acceptable, and respectful to all parties.

My little bro is here right now (he'll be 24 in a couple days, kind of an immature 24) and he and I both smoke. I smoke at work and occasionally will smoke at home, OUTSIDE, if I've had a beer. He smokes on a regular basis, sometimes in his house, sometimes outside, and neither of us would EVER, EVER, EVER even THINK of smoking in our parents' house. My brother says that your son is walking all over you and is being a UAV by continuing to smoke inside. Asking someone to go outside to smoke is OKAY! If your son gets all butt-hurt by it, well, that's his problem.

Parenting him out of the house, gently, seems like the best solution for everyone.

Also, those air purifiers don't work that well. Your house is still going to stink if he's smoking in the basement - it just travels up the vents and stairs. It's not going to solve anything.
 
#42 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship?
Yes. We would legally separate until such time as he got his act together and decided to act respectful and thoughtful. And he would do the same to me-- and he would also try to stop me from being a SAHM to our kids-- if I was smoking in front of them and in their living areas!

This is SO disrespectful!

DH's mom smokes and she is an angel and we love her to death. However. We have totally given her ultimatums about time with the kids vs. smoking. If she decides to smoke in common areas of her house, we don't visit. If the house smells strongly of smoke, we don't visit. In fact we have walked into the house, and immediately turned around and left before. We LOVE her so much, she's great; we do not tolerate the smoking.

Have you ever read the Explosive Child? The book doesn't really relate to this case at all, since it's for parenting children. But I'm going to use his description of the Plans:

Plan A: your concern and solution are on the table-- authoritative, child's concern can be empathized with but ultimately you only care about enforcing your solution. Most mainstream parents parent only this way pretty much all the time. This is a very good parenting method for when your child runs into the street and there is no time for discussion. This is also the Plan you have to use with people who have no desire for working with you or respecting your concerns.

Plan B: your concern and your child's concern are both on the table. You collaboratively come to a solution that satisfies both of your concerns, is feasible and realistic, and satisfies both parties. This is a good way to approach most problems, especially your concern right now with the smoking-- as long as he's willing to cooperate. It's not Plan B, however, if your child's solution (smoking behind your back) isn't satisfying YOUR concerns as well as his own. If he lacks a basic respect for you, you may have to go to Plan A.

Plan C: your child's concern and solution are the only ones on the table. This is a good Plan to use when you realize that your expectations were unrealistic or infringed on your child's basic rights. Inappropriate use would be when you compromise your boundaries or values-- then it becomes permissive parenting or being a doormat.
 
#44 ·
Your son is hurting your health, damaging your property and being disrespectful. I have a very hard time believing that this is the only issue going on between mother and son. It just seems strange for a person to be very respectful in every other aspect of the relationship and then start smoking in a house even though he has been asked not to.

If this were my child, I would not tolerate this behavior. He would stop smoking or stop living in my home.

By the way, an air purifier will not completely remove the smoke smell. To people who are very sensitive to it, it would still be a problem.
 
#45 ·
Reading the OP made me really sad, b/c there is a blatant disprespect going on. Getting a special ashtray or air filter is not really the issue here. The issue is that the OP has tried many ways to say she REALLY does not want smoking in the house and her son just doesn't care.


He is an adult, and I have to wonder about a kid who is that blatantly disrespectful of other adults, especially ones he especially loves.

I would absolutely be VERY upset if my DP or my adult kid was that disrespectful of my very valid requests. (On a side note, comparing a son or daughter to a partner/husband is weird to me as they are very different relationships).

OP, I hope your son has a desire to look at why he is so blatantly disrespectful to you, and I'm sorry he is being that way. He seems to truly not care about your feelings. I hope he turns it around.
 
#46 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post
It would be HIS choice to continue smoking and have to find a new place to live if you made that a condition of living under YOUR roof.

(Sounds like he's smoking in the house because he knows you won't do anything about it....)
He's being totally disrespectful. I'd kick him out in a minute.
 
#47 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution? I think that's a far more accurate comparison than asking what I'd do if he was a renter. At what age exactly does the gentle discipline end and the harda$$ parent emerge then? I'm not going to kick him out of the house just BOOM like that - surely people can take that at face value and try to offer constructive solutions instead of telling me if I won't kick him out I'm letting him walk all over me.

Thanks kathymuggle for understanding things. I guess I could try to argue my point here, but I'm at work and don't have the time. I guess I'll just figure it out on my own.
Yes, not even remotely a question. I'm not sure I'd stay with my partner if he smoked at all as I am severely severely allergic. However smoking in my home? Not a chance there would even be an option. It would be choose to smoke in your home and your home will not be my home too. The kids and I would be gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Oh, absolutely. There's a big difference between saying "That's IT!!! I've had it with the smoking- you've got until January 15th to find someplace else to live!" and saying "Look, we need to find a solution here. I can't live with smoke in my house. I love you, and I enjoy your company, but I'm very angry about the way you've been treating me and it's affecting our relationship. I'm feeling disrespected every time I smell smoke in the house, after you keep on promising to stop. If we can't find a way to live together respectfully, then maybe its' time you got your own place."
That being said I agree with Ruthla... I would not just say get out now. I would however insist that they either follow the rules of the house or else work out a plan to live in a space where the rules they want to follow can be arranged for them.

This is not the same as a child not washing the dishes when it's their turn or coming home late (not that a 20 year old has curfew, but I just mean any household rule). This is a rule that when broken has the potential to cause illness or even eventual death for not only you and your partner (if you have one) who are adults and can choose to take on that risk but also your younger children who can't choose to just move out. That is totally unfair to them and I would never allow someone who was putting my children's health in danger to continue to do so.
 
#48 ·
Tell him he can either stop smoking in your house or find another place to live. It's YOUR house, and he needs to obey YOUR rules, I don't care if he's 10 or 50. I'd never let my rommate or husband smoke in the house, and I wouldn't let my child do it either. He is blatantly disrespecting your boundaries and you are enabling him to do so.
 
#49 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution?
Yes, he would absolutely be out of the house within minutes of taking a second smoke in there. With the first I'd tell him that there is no way that is happening in my house around my kids and me, so never ever do that again. And if he did, he'd be out.
And he would do the same to me.
Actually, I wouldn't even be with him if he smoked at all, there's no way I will ever expose my kids to a smoking parent (or bigger sibling), or myself to a smoking partner. (Even if it was only outside.)
Guests are not allowed to smoke inside either. No way, no how. And we will not visit people who smoke inside their home. (Not a problem though, nobody we know does.)

And besides that, Ruthla said it, this is what I'd do:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Oh, absolutely. There's a big difference between saying "That's IT!!! I've had it with the smoking- you've got until January 15th to find someplace else to live!" and saying "Look, we need to find a solution here. I can't live with smoke in my house. I love you, and I enjoy your company, but I'm very angry about the way you've been treating me and it's affecting our relationship. I'm feeling disrespected every time I smell smoke in the house, after you keep on promising to stop. If we can't find a way to live together respectfully, then maybe its' time you got your own place."
 
#50 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BedHead View Post
Would you all kick your dp out of the house if they smoked in the house, but other than that you had a great relationship? Or would you try and work out a solution? I think that's a far more accurate comparison than asking what I'd do if he was a renter. At what age exactly does the gentle discipline end and the harda$$ parent emerge then? I'm not going to kick him out of the house just BOOM like that - surely people can take that at face value and try to offer constructive solutions instead of telling me if I won't kick him out I'm letting him walk all over me.
I don't know that anyone was suggesting you pack his bags and throw him out tomorrow. If I were in your shoes, I would simply tell him that the choice is his and give him a deadline. He's an adult. You can't discipline an adult. At some point, discipline has to come from within.

I'm not a harda$$, but I'm not really a follower of gentle discipline, either. I believe that natural consequences are the best teachers, but sometimes the natural consequence is too impractical or dangerous. Sometimes, there is no natural consequence that matters...as in your case. The natural consequence of him smoking in the house is that you become upset with him. Your son apparently does not care that you are upset by his actions. So, an imposed consequence is in order. A 20yo is plenty old enough to be held accountable. Anything else is enabling or coddling, IMO. Lack of personal responsibility is a huge peeve of mine.

And I can't imagine myself in a situation where my DP smoked at all, let alone in the house. Smoking is a deal-breaker for me. I'm an asthmatic and I also have an asthmatic kid. Nobody is welcome to smoke in my home or car, whether friend or relative. I would never date a smoker. The residue on their clothing is enough to trigger lung problems for me.
 
#51 ·
I agree that this is a boundary issue.

I've raised my daughter pretty harmoniously, but I've always been very clear about where my boundaries were. By age twenty I think it really takes two to tango, and if he's not willing to work with you to find a solution that's respectful to you and your needs (not to mention lying to you about it) then I wouldn't feel very accommodating towards him... and yeah, I'd basically say that I own this house (or it's leased to me) and I'm not willing to put up with this in my home.

I didn't even consider that he wouldn't be contributing to the household in other ways (paying rent, doing dishes, washing his clothes).
 
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