Interaction at the coffee shop - what would you have done? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 10:31 AM
 
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#182 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 10:32 AM
 
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yes, two year olds do need to learn. they cannot be expected to know it at two. she wasn't telling him to smack that baby and teach him a lesson. she was telling him to use his words because the baby doesn't know yet and still needs to learn.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#183 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 11:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GoestoShow View Post
Umm...that's very American. In many other countries (and even in the US in previous generations), it is still common that if there is a seat at a table in a cafe or a coffee shop (sometimes even in a restaurant! I've had complete strangers escorted to my table when I lived in Russia because there happened to be seats enough to accommodate them at my table as opposed to another). So, you know....highly, highly cultural that.

In much of the world, it would not be rude. It'd be very normal.
It would be considered rude if there were other seats available, here or in other countries. I've travelled in many other countries too, and it is not common to be seated at an occupied table when every other table in the room is available. In the example OP presents, the other children are the only ones in the toy area, and thus the only toy being played with is the pirate ship. I personally really like the table analogy that's come up over the course of the thread, and think that this only adds to it. If the play area were full of children and all the fun toys were being played with, then yes... kids should be expected to share. In an area full of toys where only one toy is being played with, not so much.

Also, OP lives in America. She says that in her first post.

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#184 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 11:08 AM
 
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yes, two year olds do need to learn. they cannot be expected to know it at two. she wasn't telling him to smack that baby and teach him a lesson. she was telling him to use his words because the baby doesn't know yet and still needs to learn.
Agree entirely. You don't just hit age 7 (or whatever) and magically know the rules of your society. 2 year olds DO need to learn that they can't just grab toys out of other people's hands. The other mother was telling her child to tell the toddler that. No big deal. If it were my 2 year old, I'd want the older child to do the same. That's called socialization.

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#185 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 11:15 AM
 
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Hmmmm. Interesting thread. I can't say honestly that either side was in the wrong here at all. There are valid points going both ways. If I was the mom to the toddler, I would have redirected her. I would not have confronted the 5yo unless he was downright mean, which it doesn't sound like he was. However, if I was mom to the 5yo, I would have said something to him about the toys being for everyone and perhaps he could find something else for the baby since it will be very hard for her to watch while only the older kids can use the ship. He may not do it, but at least the seed is planted for a more compassionate response later on. I think this situation would have worked out better as a collaborative effort on the part of both moms. To expect mom of toddler to keep her completely out of what the older kids are doing is unrealistic. To expect 4 and 5 yo.s to have to share everything they are doing with toddlers is also unrealistic.
ITA with this. Interesting thread.

FWIW, I have not actively taught my 5yo to ask if she can play *every* time she approaches other kids. Sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't and just joins in (like, she might walk up to some kids being dinosaurs and say "I'm a dinosaur too! Raar!"). I just let her negotiate that herself. Now I'm wondering if I should teach her this. Huh. What is the general feeling on that?

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#186 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 11:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
FWIW, I have not actively taught my 5yo to ask if she can play *every* time she approaches other kids. Sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't and just joins in (like, she might walk up to some kids being dinosaurs and say "I'm a dinosaur too! Raar!"). I just let her negotiate that herself. Now I'm wondering if I should teach her this. Huh. What is the general feeling on that?
Is she getting resistance when she joins in? She might be picking up other social cues, like if she walks in and the kids look at her in a welcoming way, she'd know to join in. I would let her navigate it herself unless she's having trouble.
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#187 of 191 Old 01-06-2010, 12:01 PM
 
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ITA with this. Interesting thread.

FWIW, I have not actively taught my 5yo to ask if she can play *every* time she approaches other kids. Sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't and just joins in (like, she might walk up to some kids being dinosaurs and say "I'm a dinosaur too! Raar!"). I just let her negotiate that herself. Now I'm wondering if I should teach her this. Huh. What is the general feeling on that?
I think you only need to teach her this if she has trouble understanding social cues. There are children who need to be taught this sort of thing, but most children do not.

The specific issue here is that a 2 year old wants to play with a 5 year old, without actually being capable of doing so... and the 5 year old knowing that and not wanting to play with the 2 year old. I guess a similar situation would be if your 5 year old was always wandering over to the 15 year olds and wanting to play with them. Sure, sometimes the 15 year olds might think that a 5 year old tagging along was really cute, and play with him... but you can't entirely blame a group of 15 year olds who don't want to drop everything they're doing to entertain a random 5 year old. And then I would step in and redirect the 5 year old. But assuming your 5 year old wants to play with similarly aged kids who are playing age-appropriate games, I'd let him work it out on his own. He, shall we say, "needs to learn."


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#188 of 191 Old 01-07-2010, 06:16 AM
 
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The way she reacted was not fair on her part... Toys are meant for everyone..
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#189 of 191 Old 01-07-2010, 09:27 AM
 
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The way she reacted was not fair on her part... Toys are meant for everyone..
So you think that all toys are meant for everyone at the exact same time, regardless of whether they're already being played with or whether they're age appropriate for everyone?

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#190 of 191 Old 01-07-2010, 04:13 PM
 
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OP here. Wow - 110 responses! I thought I'd get 7 or 8 and then quickly fall onto page 2.

5 - My husband and I had something of a giggle at the posts describing me as a bully, someone who barged in and insisted my child ruin the experiences of the two kids there. And perhaps ruin their entire lives to come
. Who knows.
*.
See?!? *That's just how we'd expect a bully to act, go home and laugh about it with your buddies.

Just kidding. *Geez :-p

Uh. *I'm very glad I took the time to read this whole thread. *I originally thought I would have given the kids another minute to see how it played out before saying anything to them. *Sure, if I was any kind of a good mom I would have sat down on the floor and facilitated playtime that was sooo much fun for all three kids. *

But I have been training myself to wait until the last minute to intervene, just watching. *And I keep getting surprised by kids. *It would have been very difficult to wait and see how the kids solved it if I was already upset by how their mom acted a minute ago. *But I would have stood there staring at them, ready to jump in if my kid or the other needed help.

Why I'm glad that I read this is, knowing me, if I was already uncomfortable with the woman and I was watching the situation with the kids for signs of trouble; it just wouldn't have occured to me to make idle conversation with the mother while the kids decided what they were going to do. *I am going to remember that. *We don't really have coffee shops or anything cool like that here. *And everybody in town knows each other. *But I'm sure this insight will come in handy somehow.
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#191 of 191 Old 01-08-2010, 06:55 PM
 
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I haven't read all the posts, sorry if I'm repeating .....

I have a 5 and 3 year old and both me and my kids have benefitted from older kids working hard at playing together in a public playspace. When we are in a public playspace and a toddler is interested in my kids I encourage them to play with them at their level... because it's really good for my kids to learn how to play with children of different ages. Even if they resist at first, the unexpected fun and feeling of importance and accomplishment usually trumps their desire for their individual play.

At home or in private it's a different story. There they can choose to find a private space. Usually, they choose to play with each other so it's not much of an issue.
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