Is it okay for kids to sing on the train? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 97 Old 01-13-2010, 09:39 AM
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Again, you are making this all about you. I am sorry that you have had awful experiences. But this OP is about how we would expect OUR children to behave. That does not mean that because I know that my kids can and do behave on a train (like happy children, full of spirit, but who don't have any need to sing loudly in a confined space) , so my expectations would be in line with my knowledge of MY kids. My sense of appropriate or my basis for choosing what expectations I have are based solely on my kids. As yours are.

If my kids had different needs, I would surely have different expectations.

I don't spend much time worrying about other peoples kids. I know enough to know that I have no idea what is going on with another child or parent or situation, and honestly I generally don't care very much. If I am annoyed by loud children (and yes, often in confined spaces MANY things can annoy me ~ not just children) I move. I don't waste a ton of time glaring, judging, hating, or whatever else you presume about parents of non special needs kids. I was replying to this post talking about what I assume or expect for/from my kids. You seem to be replying based on what you *think* "people" assume or expect for/from your kids.

Anyway, I am sure we could continue to go round and round. I just hope you understand that just because some people have kids who CAN behave, does not mean that they automatically judge those who CAN'T. My heart goes out to any child or parent in any hard situation ~ whether it is a one off thing, or a daily hardship. Like I posted earlier, we are all Mothers ~ to one degree or another we have all had those moments. Some more, some less frequently ~ But having them more frequently does not mean that judging all the others is fair or right.

Thank you for taking the time to try to explain your situation/children to me. I am very sorry that you have had so many trying times. Of COURSE this is true:

Well I can guarantee that you haven't experienced the difficult times that I have experienced. It's next to impossible to duplicate those conditions. And I disagree that it's the opposite of the other statement. In fact, I think they're complimentary. You can't imagine what I've been through. My experiences are inseparable from me. I will process x differently than you will process x because I am a different person with a different mental and physical makeup and a different lifetime set of experiences than you are. Everything that I go through is filtered through that which is ME. And my experiences include all of that. There is no experience separate from that which experiences it. Perhaps too much philosophy there...
How's this - my difficult times are mine alone and no one else's because they include that which make up me - the way I process those difficulties, the ways I cope with them, my actions and reactions - as well as my environment and other environmental factors (like other people, experiences, etc.) So, I stand by my statement.
, that is called life. And I guarantee that while you MAY have experienced judgement, hatred, intolerance, or mean looks from people on a train, none of them have been from me. So while I suppose any one of us could at any time say to any other of us "I have had trying times that you can only imagine" ~ it will always be true, and I am sure you can see how it might often times be considered assumptive, if only for how unnecessary it is..... I think that to a degree we can stipulate that truth in all interactions, when used in a general philosophical way as you seem to be. The whole "walk a mile in my shoes" and whatnot.

I worry about my kids. Only my kids, in situations pertaining to my kids. Probably almost to a fault. The idea that everyone who has DIFFERENT (not better) ideas of proper behavior for THEIR kids either kills the joy out of them, or is hateful and intolerant to OTHER children, simply made me bristle. I do apologize if I am not doing a good job of getting my point across. It just seems as judgmental to assume that because I have different (NOT better, just different) standards for my kids that I hate yours, or judge you, or anything else. Can't you be as open minded about my kids capabilities as you ask me to be about your kids special needs? It only seems fair. Not all easy kids are products of overbearing hateful smothering parents. Surely there is some grey area there, you know? And while I am quoting and replying to you, I am not just directing that to you ~ But to several of the PP's on this thread who I felt implied that those of us who have different expectations for OUR children judge their children.

Whew. I need some coffee. Hope I make sense
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#92 of 97 Old 01-13-2010, 10:44 AM
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You seem to be reading something in my posts that isn't there. While some people in this thread may have wanted to just speak about their own expectations as parents to their own children, there have also been posts about other people's children. So, no, I'm not making it all about me. I'm not caring about how other people parent their own children. I truly don't care what expectations you have of your own children. I think that it's in judging other people and their chldren that creates problems. I don't think I can make that any more clear.
I'm glad that you don't go around judging others. I guess I'll leave it at that rather than go line by line trying to explain what I'm saying again. We don't seem to be reading each other's words as they're meant. At all.

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#93 of 97 Old 01-13-2010, 12:41 PM
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If one is doing something that bothers most of the people around them, it is probably inappropriate. Yes, kids will be kids. But a child's wants do not trump the wants of others. Notice I said wants....not needs.

Excessive noise on a train ride would most likely give me a headache, which in turn would contribute to a feeling of carsickness. And yes, if adults were singing loudly on a train, I would find that equally annoying. Not because I sit in judgement of their behavior, like some holier-than-thou snob, but because their actions directly impact MY well-being and/or MY enjoyment of the ride. Why is it okay for kids to have a good time at the expense of others?

There are dozens of ways to have fun on a train ride. Being loud isn't necessary. I've taken trains, loooong flights, and a bazillion road-trips with my kids, and never found the need to have them shout, yell, or run around enclosed spaces to keep them happy.

As for playing with sugar packets and other condiments in restaurants...I'm a big proponent of being prepared. If I took my kids out someplace when they were little, I made sure we had activities/toys with us for them to play with. And yes, if sugar packets get wet, stained with debris from the table, et cetera, they get thrown away. I work in a restaurant. I've seen people allowing their babies to teeth on salt shakers and whatnot. Gross! Is it really so difficult to throw a couple of toys in a diaper bag, or keep a deck of cards or pack of crayons in your purse?
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#94 of 97 Old 01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
I think you are taking your individual child, and expecting every other child to be a carbon copy. My kids are nothing like your kid. My kids respond in their ways. What works for your child won't work for mine. Maybe, one day, you'll have a difficult child and realize that it wasn't your parenting that caused your child to behave, but that your child simply made parenting easy for you. You wouldn't be the first at MDC to have such an epiphany.
Love this. Worth repeating.
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#95 of 97 Old 01-18-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tallulahma View Post
i think library's have rules about noise- at least ours do.... and we always follow posted rules and maintain a respect for the things of others.

but on a train or restaurant? havent we all been on a train with a group of people laughing really loudly or getting really into a story being told? i wouldnt let that offend me either- people enjoying life... laughing. I cannot even count how many times I have been at a restaurant with girlfriends or a group of adults where we were drinking and laughing and being loud or spilling drinks and been treated WONDERFULLY By our wait staff... because their tip would be huge since our bill was increasing with our noise level. no one was commenting on our rude waste of alcohol...

people make exceptions for adults all the time in the name of fun or a good time... yet when children are encouraged to act out in joy- people are up in arms and talking about lazy parents and bad behaviour and such.
Bravo very well said. I think the last sentence is the best in the whole thread (while there are many that touch me).
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#96 of 97 Old 01-18-2010, 01:46 PM
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Havent read any posts on this, but going by your title-i think its ok for kids to sing at a reasonable volume. I cant imagine anyone being bothered bythis. But if they were, then they could kindly ask to sing more softly, but to ask them to stop, thats like the gringe that stole christmas mentality.

Im always on the side of singers, being one myself.

But yes, its ok. If other people have a problem, tell them to get a life, or go to another carriage (ok,i would be more polite in real life, but i would not tell my children to stop singing)
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#97 of 97 Old 01-18-2010, 01:51 PM
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Ok, should have read the actual post.

OP, im with you on keeping voices down. I would still stick to what i said earlier, and let them know if the volume is bothering you, to tone it down. But yes, i agree that the other passengers should be more considerate.
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