would you be upset? uninvited from BD party after exposure to chicken pox - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

ETA: They didn't close my high school during a measles outbreak in...'84, I think. I had classes where half the students were out sick, and we just kept chugging. I wonder if this is some kind of strange regional/cultural difference or something.
Generally the reasons to close a school are:

1) so many kdis out sick that you can't be teaching new material anyway
2) disease without a vax to prevent it.

In the case of measles, first response is to quarantine cases and then vaccinate/booster shot those who are still well, rather than shut down the school these days. I know I've heard of daycare and school policies for such cases wherein unvaccinated children will be sent home for the duration of the outbreak.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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Please note how they did it: STRICT Quarantines. Rigorously enforced. Adhered to.l

Not "Oh, I don't think this is any big deal! I'm just going out for an hour or two! I've got important things to do! I need to run out for these things! My kids will miss this event! Anyway, doesn't everyone WANT to get this disease? They should be GRATEFUL I'm out exposing them! It's better to get it naturally!! So they dont' have to be vaccinated!!"

If you want to live without vaxes, you've got to accept that prior to their availability, people treated these diseases differently.

During diptheria epidemics? A common response if it kept moving through a household was to burn the house and its contents to the ground. Now that shows committment to disease prevention.
I realize you didn't mean it to be funny, but this totally cracks me up (oh, and I know it's true! not funny in a 'you're so silly' kind of way)

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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I'm so sorry mama That must be incredibly scary. Thinking of you and your little one.
I forgot to say P.S., I have mostly stayed at home except for work, and there I've been really careful about handwashing. But it's true that we didn't send a notice through the school which I'm feeling guilty about right now.

ETA: We did TELL the school though.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:40 PM
 
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Well...just so you know, I'm pregnant (in my first trimester) and my son just recently had Fifth's Disease. So I'm learning a lot about it.

If you're in your 3rd trimester, it's fine. But unfortunately in your first, it can kill your baby. I was tested last week and didn't have any antibodies (so I didn't have it as a child) and I am going in for testing this afternoon to find out if that has changed, i.e. I got it, since I am not in the lifelong immunity group.

If I did, I will have to go for an ultrasound probably weekly to see if my baby survives; in 6 to 10 per cent of cases, the fetus develops a severe anemia that can result in heart failure. The only treatment option is blood transfusions, that I know of so far.

Now Fifth's is a tough one to know they've got because they're contagious before they get the rash. In my son's case he was probably most contagious at home, but he was in school the day before he got the rash (we had no idea). We kept him home an extra day + weekend to be sure he couldn't spread it. We don't know where he got it, especially because Fifth's is such a mild illness...unless you're pregnant. So I totally get that there was not a way to prevent it.

But just so you know - I have already lost a child and had 9 early miscarriages. This is my last shot at having a baby, I kind of feel (almost 40) and this minor childhood disease has made me really stressed out, teary, and sad.

So - yeah.


So sorry, mama. That sounds really scary. Happy thoughts and prayers to you and your little bean.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:44 PM
 
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Rejoiceinlife,

I just wanted to say I understand that it can be uncomfortable when you ask for an honest opinion expecting people to side with you, and come to find out that majority doesn't see the situation your way. I see that you are new, and I hope you stick around despite this disagreement.

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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I I wouldn't let my sick child go to a party with peopple I don't know well.
I think this is what OP is missing to see that it's not an outrageous line of thought that some people would prefer to be safe than sorry in a situation where CP can be passed around at a birthday part, kwim?

Either way, I hope rejoiceinlife doesn't disappear. This is not that bad of a place.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by savithny View Post
Generally the reasons to close a school are:

1) so many kdis out sick that you can't be teaching new material anyway
2) disease without a vax to prevent it.

In the case of measles, first response is to quarantine cases and then vaccinate/booster shot those who are still well, rather than shut down the school these days. I know I've heard of daycare and school policies for such cases wherein unvaccinated children will be sent home for the duration of the outbreak.
This was '84. I don't know if the vax existed then or not, but we (students at the high school) didn't receive it as children. Nobody was given a booster, if they were available. Whatever the reasons for keeping the school open, it wasn't about vaxes.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
I think this is what OP is missing to see that it's not an outrageous line of thought that some people would prefer to be safe than sorry in a situation where CP can be passed around at a birthday part, kwim?

Either way, I hope rejoiceinlife doesn't disappear. This is not that bad of a place.
I think she's trusting in the incubation numbers, mostly. I use them as a guide, but (despite my post to velochic) I don't rely on them to be totally accurate, yk?

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Old 07-09-2010, 03:21 PM
 
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When my son was 9 months old, someone thought nothing of coming over and holding him while they were still sick (it's just a cold). My DS ended up in the hospital for 3 days (you want to pay that bill?).

OP, your post smacks of entitlement like I have never encountered before. There are people who choose to vac and people who choose not to. However, there is another group who have no choice. Their children cannot be immunized even if their parents want them to be. Additionally, a good portion of those children are immuno-compromised. So if those parents have the good fortune of being able to bring their child to a birthday party - your "no big deal" could possibly kill their child. Even if the chances of it happening are 1 in a 1,000,000,000 - it's too great a risk IMHO.

You want your child to be exposed. I get that - truly I do. My Mom was 35 when she got CP and she was in the hospital and almost died. However, you do not get to determine who else in your community has to be exposed.

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Old 07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
 
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I cannot possibly respond to each person who responded to my post, but I wanted to say this:

Chicken Pox, in the grand spectrum is not that big of a deal, as I said in my post I would not have been upset at being uninvited and i would have chosen to keep my children home. However, if someone is THAT imunocompromised, they could get something at the grocery store, the bank, ANYWHERE. If someone is THAT imunocompromised they would most likely stay at home A LOT. (I am in the medical field, so I am not just blindly writing this). I just am surprised so many people do not vax and do not plan to expose their children. Also, those who were vaccinated as children and have contracted the disease subsequent times, that is part of the risk with the vaccine. You cannot judge a normal persons immune system against that of a person who has been vaxed, we still do not know enough about the vax and how it reacts in adults who have been vaxed or vaxed as kids or boostered as adults.

Chicken Pox, really are not that big of a deal, if I was imuno compromised, I would be worried about the millions of people who walk around with MRSA right in their nasal passages. Or people with VRE or something like that. Much more prevelent in adults. I wouldn't be hanging out at a little kids bday party if I had an issue with my immune system, THAT's for SURE!

Torre , Momma to Abrielle (4/07) and Annalise (7/09), Birthdoula, CNA, Aspiring Nurse, and wanna-be baby catcher. I ATE MY !
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I guess I don't have momma bear claws.

ETA: It's also not my experience that babies take colds a lot worse than adults. Two of my kids have had colds during their first month, and they were both pretty easy about it, and didn't seem to be experiencing anything unusual/severe. IME, it's the kids from about 6-18 (maybe 15) months that have a really hard time with it. They seem to have a good idea of how they "should" feel, but no understanding of why they don't.
The most vulnerable populations to illness are the very young, the very old and the immunocompromised. Babies are very vulnerable.

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Old 07-09-2010, 03:27 PM
 
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I have an immunocompromised child. Something like this could kill him or land him in the ICU. Why do you get to decide you can roll the dice on someone else's child or family member when you don't know their medical history and the medical history of those they come in contact with? When you are talking about such serious consequences for other people I don't give a darn how low you think the risk is, it is completely unethical and completely selfish to force a potential exposure on others unless they are aware of the risk and agree to it. Do you know how many times my son has landed in the SICU because he was exposed to someone who supposedly wasn't contagious? I can't even go to church any more because the last time I took him someone sent a kid in that was shedding strep and landed my kid SICU. I just can't take the risk and the thought of passing a family like you in the grocery story just gives me cold chills of terror down my spine because that grocery shopping trip could turn fatal for my child. Please think about others when you make decisions like this. There are real people and real lives behind those statistics. Right this very moment I am trying to see if I can get away long enough to drive to another state for the burial of immune compromised three year old. She died of infection that would have been completely treatable in another child. Please, please don't play Germ God with other people's lives.
I think people should read this.

With knowledge comes intent. I could *never* intentionally put my ill child out to expose potentially vulnerable populations.

And to the OP, please do not stop warning people when you have exposed your children to diseases.

ETA mekat, I wish you all the best and hope you never have to have your babe in SICU again. I have tried to imagine this happening to me, and have been scared witless just imagining. To actually go through this over and over must be absolutely heartbreaking.

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Old 07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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Chicken Pox, in the grand spectrum is not that big of a deal
TO YOU. It's not a big deal TO YOU. To other people, many of whom have said so here, IT IS. You don't seem to want to hear that at all, on any level.

Maybe your kids are good little patients when they get sick and you have plenty of time off and good insurance. That's excellent. Not a lot of people live like that.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:35 PM
 
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Mekat- I'm sorry for what you are going through.

I wanted to add, I did not mean to sound harsh about the immunocompromised, I work with them daily. I was just saying kids at this party could be exposed to something and the parent not even know it yet. My daughter currently has Step throat and I still have to go to work, even though I have made my employer aware of the situation. She played with her cousins and friends at a BBQ too last weekend and a few of them are no running fevers. I had NO idea until Saturday night when she had a fever that something was going on. Point is, having an immunocompromised loved one is frustrating and very hard, but they could be exposed to a lot of things a lot of places.

I think the OP is hurt. I do think there was a better way for her friend to uninvite her, like verbally, on the phone. I think it just sucks to have people run in every direction when they see you and your kids.

Torre , Momma to Abrielle (4/07) and Annalise (7/09), Birthdoula, CNA, Aspiring Nurse, and wanna-be baby catcher. I ATE MY !
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:37 PM
 
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misunderstood post

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Old 07-09-2010, 03:43 PM
 
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AND AGAIN, I REPEAT. When my children are sick, THEY STAY HOME. I ALSO do not purposefully expose them to anything (they are still a bit young for CP) and when they are sick and I know it, I keep them HOME. You don't know my personal situation so assume away. WOW

Also, your kids are probably exposed to worse diseases daily if they attend outside daycare/school. If they go to the gorcery store, the bank, get in the car, breathe the AIR for God's sake. Really the only difference in this situation is that the OP knows and so does the hostess and other guests.
I actually had attributed some posts from further back in the thread to you as well (in my head, I mean) so yeah, busted, and you quoted me so I can't even go back and fix it
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:46 PM
 
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Do you want me to delete mine so you can delete or edit yours? LOL I feel bad now...

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Old 07-09-2010, 04:02 PM
 
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I cannot possibly respond to each person who responded to my post, but I wanted to say this:

Chicken Pox, in the grand spectrum is not that big of a deal, as I said in my post I would not have been upset at being uninvited and i would have chosen to keep my children home. However, if someone is THAT imunocompromised, they could get something at the grocery store, the bank, ANYWHERE. If someone is THAT imunocompromised they would most likely stay at home A LOT. (I am in the medical field, so I am not just blindly writing this). I just am surprised so many people do not vax and do not plan to expose their children. Also, those who were vaccinated as children and have contracted the disease subsequent times, that is part of the risk with the vaccine. You cannot judge a normal persons immune system against that of a person who has been vaxed, we still do not know enough about the vax and how it reacts in adults who have been vaxed or vaxed as kids or boostered as adults.

Chicken Pox, really are not that big of a deal, if I was imuno compromised, I would be worried about the millions of people who walk around with MRSA right in their nasal passages. Or people with VRE or something like that. Much more prevelent in adults. I wouldn't be hanging out at a little kids bday party if I had an issue with my immune system, THAT's for SURE!

Momma - I don't disagree about the severity of chicken pox to the general population. However, there are people in the community who this will kill. I have a very rare disease (since you are medical - you may know it - systemic mastocytosis). If I somehow lose immunity (which reminds me, I need to get a titer), CP could send me into horrible bouts of anaphalaxis or worse. I'd most likely have a huge mast cell degranulation which at best would result in anaphalaxis at worse - hemorrhaging.

Who gets to decide? It's one thing to unknowingly expose yourself or others to a disease. It's something entirely different to intentionally expose yourself and your children to a disease and then get your panties in a twist when others don't want to be exposed.

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Old 07-09-2010, 04:05 PM
 
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Momma - I don't disagree about the severity of chicken pox to the general population. However, there are people in the community who this will kill. I have a very rare disease (since you are medical - you may know it - systemic mastocytosis). If I somehow lose immunity (which reminds me, I need to get a titer), CP could send me into horrible bouts of anaphalaxis or worse. I'd most likely have a huge mast cell degranulation which at best would result in anaphalaxis at worse - hemorrhaging.

Who gets to decide? It's one thing to unknowingly expose yourself or others to a disease. It's something entirely different to intentionally expose yourself and your children to a disease and then get your panties in a twist when others don't want to be exposed.
ITA with this! I think I may have poorly and inaccurately expressed my opinion. Sorry for what you are going through dear. I am not familiar with that disease. Now I want to go research since I am unfamiliar with it. ((HUGS))

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Old 07-09-2010, 04:05 PM
 
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Do you want me to delete mine so you can delete or edit yours? LOL I feel bad now...
No, no. Let's just leave it. It'll be chaos because I assure you I will somehow delete the wrong one. Thanks anyway! It was my mistake.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:09 PM
 
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Well I do know this: next time I expose my children to something, I will NOT be telling ANYONE
I wouldn't be comfortable having someone with that attitude in our circle of friends in real life. There are some germs that I'm comfortable with (colds) but some that I try to avoid at all costs (anything stomach virusy). I have friends whose kids have asthma where a cold can land them in the hospital. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who knows their kids could be carrying something and wouldn't warn us and let us decide.

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Old 07-09-2010, 04:23 PM
 
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I would not be upset-- in fact, I would uninvite myself. We recently had a similar situation, with a friend who's son got CP the week before his birthday party. She really wanted to hold it as planned (he still had spots, though most were dry). I have a 4 year old and a 5month old and we're leaving for vacation tomorrow. I don't want to deal with CP on vacation. I told her we didn't feel comfortable with going while he still had some "active" spots. She moved the party.

Her text was brusque, I get why you feel hurt. But I totally understand where she's coming from.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:51 PM
 
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Aloha all - please remember that we can discuss and disagree with ideas but not take issue with posters themselves as inidviduals including casting suspicion or taking direct issue with another poster. Thanks for keeping the User Agreement in mind when posting

Your User Agreement here at MDC, read it and make it your friend and read the FAQ to answer all the questions of the (MDC) world.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:14 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that it might not be the standard policy in the US at the moment, but where I grew up, they did close schools for one, even two weeks at a time (usually some time in winter) when too many kids got sick. My sister, back at home, said our city of 2 million had schools closed this past winter as well. I remember that it was not unusual to get an extra vacation due to quickly spreading illness.
My elementary school was closed once because of an out break of whooping cough and they couldn't keep parents from sending their sick kids to school. So they just closed the school for a couple of weeks.

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Old 07-10-2010, 10:06 PM
 
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Chicken Pox, in the grand spectrum is not that big of a deal
From: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/...s-faqs-gen.htm

"Many people are not aware that before a vaccine was available approximately 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S. every year"

"Many of the deaths and complications from chickenpox occur in previously healthy children and adults."

"These reports have shown that some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults."


Ten THOUSAND people paying hospital bills for your "not a big deal?" Of those, 150 die. Do you get to determine who the 150 are?

But then, I'm in the number of people who you think should just stay at home at all times and never share in birthday parties, BBQs, or other joyous events because we have immuno-compromised people in the house.

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Old 07-11-2010, 01:20 AM
 
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I totally support and respect parents who choose not to vax.

However, it frustrates me to no end when some then *refuse* or get highly hostile to having to follow quarentine procedures! I think it's because very few people bother to research that, because it's not widely available info now that the common presumption is that all people are vaccinated.

We did see some of that reinstated with H1N1 (moving from very conservative must-stay-home for 2 weeks even if the fever breaks before then/must stay home while anyone in the immediate family is sick, to the less conservative 48 hours after fever breaking and just the ill person affected). How quickly we as a society forget!

It's really not fun to have to deal with quarentine. I had to deal with 4 weeks of it because we had very early H1N1 cases. It really really sucked. I really can't imagine how stressful that would be for a working parent--at least both DH and myself a SAH/WAH anyway, and we have a good support system and were able to receive dropoffs of fresh produce (I keep a couple months supply of nonperishable food and water at all times, thank goodness!) After the immediate period of illness, when you don't feel like going anywhere or doing anything ANYWAY, I felt very oppressed, anxious, and angry and even belligerent! And I even accepted intellectually that because not much was known about the virus that I agreed I should adopt conservative practices! We did have the opportunity to get vaccinated, but chose not to (we never have gotten flu shots for a variety of reasons both rational and perhaps irrational). Dealing with quarentine was, IMO, part of the responsibilities of my choice and the consequences of getting the illness. It wasn't a punishment.

When other people choose a very conservative approach, it's not a punishment personal to you. (though if you seriously decide that you'll just not tell anyone and intentionally expose your kids and then go out without informing your friends who you know are concerned about that--they may have pretty punitive reactions when they find out!) You may feel like they're being silly and alarmist; but by the same token, they might feel that you are being alarmist and fearful by not getting your kids vaxed. It can work both ways. I think that it's better to call no harm/no foul in these cases. Everyone has to miss events sometimes because of just life timing crap. It doesn't really matter why.

If your issue is with your friend's "rudeness" then by all means ask her for clarity on that. But that is a separate issue to the exposure. I really don't think that you can fault someone from setting conservative boundaries at their OWN party. If someone says something in a tone that hurts you though--I think that's something that should be addressed, and frankly I would not read too much "tone" in a text. Why not ask and see if she was upset with you first. If not, then now that the party's over (I think) if you can calmly tell her that you felt hurt because you thought she snapped at you, then I bet you can mend that quickly.

I wouldn't carpetbag the CP debate onto that though, if I were the OP.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:25 AM
 
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That is strange because my dd's doctor told me that people who have the vaccine are less likely to get shingles than people who don't. Gary Goldman is an engineer with a PHD in computer science, my doctor has actually been to medical school and knows how to interpret the literature, she has also told me which shots not to get because they aren't supported by the literature. I think that like many people I will rely on my doctor and not an engineer for medical advice.

Here is a link with his biography:

http://www.novaccine.com/gary_s_goldman.asp
Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:34 AM
 
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Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
That's why the UK doesn't vaccinate for Chickenpox routinely. The Dept of Health there is concerned that it will lower the age of shingles and increase the number of cases and severity: http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1032.asp...bCategoryID=63

That's why shingles is still a disease of old age in the UK but is becoming more and more common at younger ages in the US.

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Old 07-11-2010, 01:50 AM
 
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We did see some of that reinstated with H1N1 (moving from very conservative must-stay-home for 2 weeks even if the fever breaks before then/must stay home while anyone in the immediate family is sick, to the less conservative 48 hours after fever breaking and just the ill person affected). How quickly we as a society forget!
Actually, here in NYC during H1N1, we got nasty letters from the school from April until June saying that kids had to be in school unless they had fevers over 100.5 within the last 24 hours. They made it very clear that they didn't feel that parents could make the call as to how ill was ill enough to stay home. Family members being sick was not an excused absence in any way. That seemed to be the attitude of employers as well. So that's not universal.

No quarantine restrictions I have seen from CP in the past involved potential exposure, staying home when family members were sick, or staying home before fever or spots appeared. There's also a thread going around about why a cancer patient is told to stay away from vax-age young children, and it appears to be because recently vaxed MMR, Rota, and CP (live vax) all shed enough to give immune suppressed individual those illnesses.

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Old 07-11-2010, 01:59 AM
 
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Incubation period is a great thing to rely on, only in my lifetime I have learned to realize that the anxiety doesn't always follow reason. I'm okay with sparing several families this kind of worry, when all I have to do is keep my kids home for a couple of weeks.
Now, this I agree with.

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Old 07-11-2010, 02:33 AM
 
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Yes, I realize that Dr Goldman is a research analyst but this doesn't detract from the fact that shingles seems to be kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population by periodic contact with varicella virus. Doesn't it stand to reason that if blanket varicella vaccination occurs in the younger population that those who have not received boosters for the vaccine, or have not received the vaccine at all, will be at increased risk for older-onset chicken-pox or increased incidence of shingles?
I think the vaccine has caused more harm than good in the long-term.
Shingles has been around longer than the vaccination so it isn't something that is kept from occurring in the unvaccinated population. If it was it wouldn't have started until the chicken pox vaccine came out. It isn't something that is just now coming about because we now can vaccinate for chicken pox, so no I don't think that stands to reason. The CDC states that people who have had chickenpox and recovered from it sometimes get shingles again, it says nothing about the vaccine being linked to shingles.

Looking at research and being a research analyst qualified to analyze research in the medical field are two different things. I wouldn't expect a doctor to be qualified in computer science and I don't expect a man with a PHD in computer science to be an expert in medicine.
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