Should I have minded my own business? Drama - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 89 Old 09-23-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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Wow, you definitely did the right thing. I'm sorry meat mom is just not getting it, if she keeps pressing you and you want to try and explain, think of something she feels strongly about (religion, politics, etc.) and ask how she would feel if you went completely against her wishes behind her back? Not sure if this friendship will be salvageable since she isn't understanding why what she did is a big deal. Just because eating meat is not a big deal to her, it doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to others. Some folks have a harder time then others understanding that, though I think it is something we all struggle with to some extent.

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#62 of 89 Old 09-23-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent here -- just kidding. I agree with everyone else that you totally did the right thing.

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#63 of 89 Old 09-23-2010, 04:46 PM
 
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you were right!

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#64 of 89 Old 09-24-2010, 11:17 AM
 
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You did the right thing and you are a great friend! I am sorry there is drama.

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#65 of 89 Old 09-24-2010, 02:27 PM
 
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Did Meat Mom say anything about whether the 3 year old likes meat? If not, you could say something like "If it's any consolation, I don't think he's accepted any meat, he didn't seem very interested and I think Meat Mom would have used it as a defense of her actions if he had." to Vegan Mom. That might help smooth things over?

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#66 of 89 Old 09-24-2010, 03:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent here -- just kidding. I agree with everyone else that you totally did the right thing.
LOL

You did the right thing OP! They are lucky to have a friend like you and hopefully meat mom will realize that

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#67 of 89 Old 09-24-2010, 03:19 PM
 
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I think it's funny that she's been dubbed "Meat Mom"
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#68 of 89 Old 09-24-2010, 06:15 PM
 
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Add my vote to the "you did the right thing" category.

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Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
What meat mom did is exactly like feeding a Jewish child pork. It's just morally wrong. I can't imagine how anyone could do that on purpose! If she had held out a piece, and when you called her said "oh, shoot! What was I thinking?" and got the kids' actual food, then I would probably not have told, even if the kid ate a bite of the burger first. That to me is an accident, and when it's not an anaphylactic allergy, I think saving the friendship would be more important.

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#69 of 89 Old 09-25-2010, 04:34 AM
 
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Were that my child, I would have been beyond livid.
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#70 of 89 Old 09-25-2010, 07:08 AM
 
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You did the right thing.
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#71 of 89 Old 09-25-2010, 07:56 AM
 
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what makes me angry OP is her reaction after you pointed out should she be feeding him meat. and even after you pointed it out she continued feeding him.

has she ever brought up her concerns about being vegan to the other mother. as much as i respect her concern for the little boys diet she has no right making the decision. the rolling of hte eyes totally shows disrespect towards the other mom's parenting rights. i mean just the fact that she is angry with you and calls you a tattler just shows what a fanatic she is - how stubborn she is.

however i dont 'blame' her for what she has done. there is soooo much misinformation in this meat based culture. to be vegan is just unimaginable by them. we rarely eat meat, and i hear this all the time. even though one is aware of people from india who have been vegetarians for generations - milk being the only animal product they eat and drink, people still dont trust that it could be a healthy choice. i just dont get that.

the best part about all this is it shows up her character. and there is no way i would trust her with respecting my wishes as a parent.

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#72 of 89 Old 09-25-2010, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by earthmama369 View Post
Anyone else kind of hoping the Meat Mom (*lol* love it) wanders in here and sees how universal the opinion is that she made an unethical choice? That it's not just the OP and Vegan Mom being uptight? If Meat Mom keeps her current attitude, she's going to keep running into problems. Time for her to admit she made a mistake and change her thinking a bit.
So true.

I kinda want a "Meat Mom" t-shirt though. I can't stop saying it. MEAT MOM!

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#73 of 89 Old 09-25-2010, 10:40 AM
 
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Sometimes it's not easy to do the right thing, and the results aren't always pleasant - but the true mark of character is that a person does indeed do the right thing. I commend you for this, as you surely knew this wouldn't go well.

I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama. Clearly this is a load of bunk, and you did what any responsible friend would do.

What continues to strike me about this whole thing is that the Vegan Mom sent acceptable food with her child. I could see it if the other mom didn't realize something had meat in it or just didn't have anything else to feed him, but the food was already provided. That alone speaks of the dedication the Vegan Mom has to this diet, and to blatently disregard that is rude, insulting, potentially dangerous and very dishonorable. Her continued defense of her actions says that she doesn't get it and probably never will.

Speaking from experience, I doubt the 3 of you will be friends again. The Vegan Mom may move past it, but it won't be the same. This is not your fault for speaking up, but the fault of the Meat Mom who's actions and attitude were unacceptable. ((Hugs!)) I know this can't be an easy situation to be in the middle of, but you definitely did the right thing!
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#74 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!
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#75 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 04:59 PM
 
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FWIW: My DH (who is a HUGE carnivore!) agrees that you're in the right.

Kas (24), Helpmeet to Stefan (25), Mom to Franklin Gaudelio 4/15/09, Jonathan Boswell 1/2/11
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#76 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gbailey View Post
The vegan mom wants nothing to do with her. She's wondering if her son was given meat before and she feels violated and is extremely hurt.
That's how I felt when I found out my sister gave DS meat. He had been vegetarian his entire life and I saw her give him chicken nuggets when he was 2 1/2. I FLIPPED out. I was absolutely hurt and felt extremely violated that they would ignore such a simple thing. Really, it takes a few SECONDS extra effort to order a kids meal with just cheese and bread, like a cheeseburger with no meat. Sometimes you have to spell it out for the people because not everyone has the brains to understand what "no meat" means, but it's not THAT hard. I still wonder if they give him any. For me it wasn't just that they gave DS something that I didn't want him to have, it was that they completely and utterly disrespected me and a choice I made as his parent.

FWIW, I think you did the right thing, 100%. That's an incredible amount of disrespect, IMO, and I would want to know if someone was doing that.

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#77 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!
Nor do the cases of non-vegan parents with sick, unhealthy kids make it into the news. I once watched a child whose mom fed him SO poorly (he at fast food at LEAST once a day and the rest of his meals were processed crap, he seriously ate maybe 2% fruits and his only veggies were ones I purchased myself and stuck in a blender with eggs until they were finely chopped and mixed in and then made scrambled eggs so he didn't know). This child was sick at LEAST once a month (2-3 times a month was not uncommon at all)...his whole diaper area was raw from the constant diarrhea, he was always on antibiotics for one thing or another...this poor baby was being set up for a life of sickness and/or eating disorders. It broke my heart. And of course you NEVER hear stories like that on the news because everyone who eats like that turns out "just fine."

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#78 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 11:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!
Well, the only one I've heard of is where this tiny newborn died because the parents were soooo vegan they didn't feel they should feed Baby any animal milk, including human milk. I can't remember what vegan liquid they were feeding the baby, and I can't remember why they didn't at least do something like soy formula...

But this was just a case of complete idiocy, and it's so weird how cases like this become the "standard" thing some people think of when they hear that someone is vegan. I would imagine that most vegans would be very pro-natural living and pro-breastfeeding.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#79 of 89 Old 09-27-2010, 11:23 PM
 
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Well, the only one I've heard of is where this tiny newborn died because the parents were soooo vegan they didn't feel they should feed Baby any animal milk, including human milk. I can't remember what vegan liquid they were feeding the baby, and I can't remember why they didn't at least do something like soy formula...

But this was just a case of complete idiocy, and it's so weird how cases like this become the "standard" thing some people think of when they hear that someone is vegan. I would imagine that most vegans would be very pro-natural living and pro-breastfeeding.
I think I'm thinking of the same story...they were giving the baby nothing but soy milk or something...

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#80 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 12:45 PM
 
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I think you did the right thing.I would want to know.I am pretty lax with restrictions,so if the kids have anyone over I ask the parents what food is ok.I also restrict tv/games that many parents would probably not allow.

I am wondering how meat mom(I see now someone coined it already!) would feel if the vegan toddler got ecoli from the meat and died.Eating meat totally changes the gut flora.

I am not a vegan/veggie but I did stop eating meat for 3 months and it TOTALLY changed my blood test results.Diet DOES affect your health.

I would probably cut my ties with the mom as I would not feel comfortable leaving my kids with her even if she did apologise.
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#81 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 01:25 PM
 
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I would probably cut my ties with the mom as I would not feel comfortable leaving my kids with her even if she did apologise.
Me too. It's unfortunate, but once trust is an issue it's really hard to get it back. I cut ties with a lovely babysitter who my kids adored...she was supposed to pick up my son from preschool and bring him home, she was really late and made an excuse when I called to find out what was taking so long. But then my son told me later that she had stopped at the McDonald's drivethrough. She didn't feed him anything (she was just starving and wanted to get lunch before coming to our place) but she took him to a location I hadn't authorized and lied about it when I called wondering where they were. If she had simply kept me in the loop it would have been OK, but once I knew about the lying and going behind my back, I could never trust her again. What if she was letting my almost 2yo cry the whole time and telling me she was fine? What if she was feeding them stuff I'd said wasn't OK? Talking on the phone the whole time and ignoring them? It opens up pandora's box of paranoia and it's hard to close it again.

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#82 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!
I remember a case like that as well. It happened in NY. The mother was a vegan but I believe they were living in filth and the mom was just not feeding the children at all.

The child in question though is definitely not a victim of poor nutrition especially not from looking at him. He's a healthy child, active, etc. If I thought he was malnourished I would say something to the mother myself especially since he's left in my care on occasion and we're friends. I've never had any concerns about his health based on the way he's fed.
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#83 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by SunshineJ View Post
Sometimes it's not easy to do the right thing, and the results aren't always pleasant - but the true mark of character is that a person does indeed do the right thing. I commend you for this, as you surely knew this wouldn't go well.

I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama. Clearly this is a load of bunk, and you did what any responsible friend would do.

What continues to strike me about this whole thing is that the Vegan Mom sent acceptable food with her child. I could see it if the other mom didn't realize something had meat in it or just didn't have anything else to feed him, but the food was already provided. That alone speaks of the dedication the Vegan Mom has to this diet, and to blatently disregard that is rude, insulting, potentially dangerous and very dishonorable. Her continued defense of her actions says that she doesn't get it and probably never will.

Speaking from experience, I doubt the 3 of you will be friends again. The Vegan Mom may move past it, but it won't be the same. This is not your fault for speaking up, but the fault of the Meat Mom who's actions and attitude were unacceptable. ((Hugs!)) I know this can't be an easy situation to be in the middle of, but you definitely did the right thing!
You're right and I'm not sad about it. Here's an update. Over the weekend meat mom called me. When I saw her number on the caller id I hoped she was calling to claim temporary insanity and be apologetic.

Instead she wanted to know why vegan mom won't talk to her and doesn't see the big deal. I told her that's the reason why no one is interested in talking to her and told her I can't trust someone who would do that. She made some less than kind comments about me that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation so I said good bye and hung up.
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#84 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 06:45 PM
 
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OP, I am sorry you had to deal with all this. Losing friendships sucks.

I of course agree that you were right to tell Vegan Mom.

And, I have to say, I don't think I have EVER seen a unanimous thread in Parenting before!

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#85 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 06:54 PM
 
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you were absolutely right in telling the boy's mom. a child who has been raised completely vegetarian, especially one who has been raised vegan, cannot digest meat, it can actually make the kid really, really sick depending on how much they eat. so not only was offering him hamburger disrespectful of his parents' choices, it could have been really dangerous.

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#86 of 89 Old 09-28-2010, 07:11 PM
 
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Deceptive, passive aggressive, manipulative, disrespectful. Hmm, congratulations on getting a chance to drop her as a friend!

10 to 1 when she tells this story to other people she claims the 3 yo asked for the burger.
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#87 of 89 Old 09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
 
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I also agree that you did the right thing.

A friend of mine was raised in a vegetarian household. Her mother and father were already vegetarian hippies when she was born in the early 70's. The grandparents didn't agree with their lifestyle. The grandparents secretly fed my friend meat whenever they watched her. It always made her unwell. Her parents didn't put two and two together until my friend was 3 and my friend ended up so sick that she ended up in the ER. The grandparents had fed her beef and she had a severe reaction to the antibiotics in the meat. She was OK in the end. And the tremendous guilt the grandparents felt for making the child sick stopped that behaviour. Although, they only agreed to the vegetarianism for the grandchild because of her allergy.

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#88 of 89 Old 09-29-2010, 11:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SunshineJ View Post
I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama.

Unfortunately 'Meat Mom's' actions do not surprise me. So many people feel raising children vegan or even vegetarian is unhealthy and it is their responsibility to convert the family to become meat-eaters. My veggie children are nutritionally healthy but I still hear comments about their diet. I do not believe anyone has ever fed them meat but I have had people try to entice them to eat meat, tell them how much they are missing by not eating meat, etc. I have one friend who brings a jello dish to our house every time she is invited for dinner. I've explained the gelatin issue but she feels it is horrible my children are missing out on Jell-O!

OP...I agree w/the pp's; you did the right thing.
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#89 of 89 Old 09-30-2010, 03:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BarefootScientist View Post
:
And, I have to say, I don't think I have EVER seen a unanimous thread in Parenting before!
I was thinking that too....


OP, you rock. Thanks for standing up for vegan mom's right to make choices for her son.
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