13yo boy babysitting 5yo girl? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-01-2010, 07:02 PM
 
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This whole thread is sad.

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Originally Posted by ErinYay View Post
For those who think boys should have no part in babysitting/childcare, what do you plan on doing when your sons become fathers? Will you still worry that any contact with a child's genitals will lead to molestation or temptation?

It's just plain unfair to limit the responsibilities and roles of boys for fear of inappropriate behavior while still expecting them to grow up as healthy, functioning men.
I wonder that too. My oldest loves babies and younger kids. He'd make an amazing babysitter once he's older. I'd be really shocked if our friends wouldn't let him watch their children just because he is a boy.

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I'm with you. I think getting hung up on gender misses the larger point of knowing the people you leave your children with.

If we were discussing any other trait, such as the race or religion of a baby sitter, even asking the question would be offensive.
Yep. It's just as bad as not hiring someone to babysit if they were of a particular race. It's awful.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:20 PM
 
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I don't find it incredible at all. While I'm sure there's a "we find each other" phenomenon at work, I had a large group of friends in high school, and almost all of the girls had been sexually abused at some point. This was by about age 15, so if you add in adult rape, I'm sure the number of women who have been molested is very high. And, ime, there are a significant number of boys who have been molested at an early age, as well.
Statistics in the general population do not belie these numbers, thankfully.

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Old 11-01-2010, 08:32 PM
 
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Statistics in the general population do not belie these numbers, thankfully.
I'm not following you. I wasn't providing any numbers. I was simply relating my own experiences, with my own friends.

IME, people who haven't been molested as children are far more likely to find friends among other people who haven't been molested, while people who have been molested are more likely to find friends who have also been molested. (The same seems to apply to people with alcoholic/addict parents.) It's not conscious, and I've frequently seen someone tell their story years after establishing a friendship. It happens a lot.

I wasn't suggesting that most women have been molested, just because most of my friends have been. I was getting at the idea that, in social circles/peer groups where there aren't a lot of people with a history of sexual abuse, it's harder to believe that large numbers of people do have such a history. (That goes both ways. For a long time, it was hard for me to wrap my brain around the idea that the majoirity of people don't have such a history.)

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Old 11-01-2010, 08:39 PM
 
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It isn't discrimination. Do you voluntarily walk through a bad neighborhood at night, creating a situation for greater than usual likelihood for potential harm, to prove that you don't discriminate against minorities/the impoverished/etc?
That's assuming that minorities/the impoverished are the only ones in the bad neighborhood. Instead of making the child molester/minority comparison, why don't you make a child molester/known felon as a babysitter comparison?

And for the record, yes, I've had avery bad experiences with a man (to put it delicately) and I was physically and verbally abused by a woman during my childhood. Funny, I don't blame all men, for what one man did, nor do I assume that every Mother on here beats their children or verbally humiliates their children, just because mine did. Nor do I believe that they are more likely to, because of their gender.

I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:54 PM
 
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I don't find it incredible at all. While I'm sure there's a "we find each other" phenomenon at work, I had a large group of friends in high school, and almost all of the girls had been sexually abused at some point. This was by about age 15, so if you add in adult rape, I'm sure the number of women who have been molested is very high. And, ime, there are a significant number of boys who have been molested at an early age, as well.
I don't find it incredible either. I would say that of female friends that I've talked to, at least 1 in 4 will admit to having an experience that can be defined as sexual assault - be it molestation as a child or rape/attempted rape/sexual harassment/unwanted sexual touching as an adult.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:57 PM
 
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Oh, and to answer the question - gender wouldn't be an issue for me in chosing a babysitter. Although I actually was molested by a young teen age boy, I still don't look at every boy that age and see a molester just waiting for the opportunity. Aside from that, I didn't need to be in the care of this child to be molested by him.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:01 PM
 
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1 in 4 will admit to having an experience that can be defined as sexual assault - be it molestation as a child or rape/attempted rape/sexual harassment/unwanted sexual touching as an adult.
Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.

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Old 11-01-2010, 09:16 PM
 
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She didn't say "in the workplace". That was your own inference. Sexual harassment can occur anywhere, anytime to any age victim. Sexual harassment can include unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

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Old 11-01-2010, 09:17 PM
 
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Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.
The one in three number is for any kind of sexual assault over a lifetime, so sexual harassment that includes touching would count, but I don't think verbal would count. But yes, not just molestation of children by a long shot.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:37 PM
 
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Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.
Well, I think there's a problem equating sexual harassment and teasing. Aside from that, I wasn't speaking in terms of the odd remark here or there that could be open to interpretation - I was speaking in terms of things that were unacceptable in ways that are not really debatable. And, as others have mentioned, the 1 in 3 statistic in a life time statistic. I don't think anyone is claiming that 1 in 3 girls have been molested by the time they turn 18.

ETA: While I agree that the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are vastly different than the causes of child molestation, I don't think they are that different from the causes of rape an man or woman.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:19 PM
 
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I was sexually assaulted/raped/molested by about a dozen men in my childhood and for many of them it was ongoing. So I have pretty strong feelings about the sexual assault of little girls. Those of you who say you would never leave your daughter with a boy or man at all because you were assaulted are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By no measure am I afraid to say that a particular man might be a molester. If I see red flags I don't hesitate in the slightest. That does not mean that all boys and men are potential molesters. In fact some of the people who have been by far the safest for me to be around have been boys or men.

Yes, I've read The Gift of Fear. At this point in my life I absolutely trust my instincts. It's been a lot of years of work for me to get to the point where I feel pretty confident in my ability to make choices. (Oh, and to whoever said you avoid 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous--what a very privileged thing to say. Uhm, what about the people who have to live there due to poverty?)

These sorts of conversations always go the same way. There are those who feel offended on the behalf of all men/boys and there are those who say the statistics back them on up suspecting all men/boys. Thing is, the statistics say that ~1/3 of all women will experience some sort of sexual abuse in their lifetime. The statistics *do not say* that 1/3 of all men are abusers. Given that the sort of men who abuse women are more likely to do it multiple times that means that it is probably noticeably less than 1/3 of all men who will ever abuse a woman/girl. And given that in that number even fewer are interested in children... No. I'm not going to bring my daughter up to fear all men. That isn't productive. I want her to learn how to genuinely interpret risk and danger.

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Old 11-02-2010, 01:50 PM
 
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I was sexually assaulted/raped/molested by about a dozen men in my childhood and for many of them it was ongoing. So I have pretty strong feelings about the sexual assault of little girls. Those of you who say you would never leave your daughter with a boy or man at all because you were assaulted are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By no measure am I afraid to say that a particular man might be a molester. If I see red flags I don't hesitate in the slightest. That does not mean that all boys and men are potential molesters. In fact some of the people who have been by far the safest for me to be around have been boys or men.

Yes, I've read The Gift of Fear. At this point in my life I absolutely trust my instincts. It's been a lot of years of work for me to get to the point where I feel pretty confident in my ability to make choices. (Oh, and to whoever said you avoid 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous--what a very privileged thing to say. Uhm, what about the people who have to live there due to poverty?)

These sorts of conversations always go the same way. There are those who feel offended on the behalf of all men/boys and there are those who say the statistics back them on up suspecting all men/boys. Thing is, the statistics say that ~1/3 of all women will experience some sort of sexual abuse in their lifetime. The statistics *do not say* that 1/3 of all men are abusers. Given that the sort of men who abuse women are more likely to do it multiple times that means that it is probably noticeably less than 1/3 of all men who will ever abuse a woman/girl. And given that in that number even fewer are interested in children... No. I'm not going to bring my daughter up to fear all men. That isn't productive. I want her to learn how to genuinely interpret risk and danger.
Similar background and similar feelings. What concerns me most is that by saying "no boys can babysit my DD" people might be therefore believing "i am effectively protecting my child from abuse" when the reverse is true. Blanket policies ignore individuals, interactions and relationships, and therefore potentially allow for ignoring red flags (or even small yellow flags which might one day become red ones). The bogeyman isn't usually instantly recognisable, or necessarily a man. I am a survivor of abuse, i am VERY VERY careful who i trust, but i still evaluate what i SEE, and WAY beyond "nope, he has a penis" before i make a decision on how suitable someone is to be around/care for my kids.

ETA - i also have an aspie DH!
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:14 PM
 
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. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.
And it's also the time of max embarrassment about getting caught. Just tell them, that you'll be gone 2-4 hours, but a neighbor might stop by some time in the first 2 hours, and they'll concentrate extra hard on playing with the kid so they don't accidentally think about something sexy and have to hold a book in front of themselves to answer the door.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:49 PM
 
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well i guess to each his own.

i dont care for statistics. a person is not a statistics. a woman can abuse as much as a man - for that matter even a 6 year old can be an abuser. that one in a million woman could be the very nice neighbour next door.

i trust my dd and my instincts. i am an older mom and most of my friends have teenage and adult kids.

we play with them all the time. i cannot imagine ever thinking i couldnt leave dd with them. if anything because of their relationship they are even more super vigilant than me.

i have my neighbours who watch out AND the boys parents on teh phone who could come over if help was needed or for advice.

i have had to let go of some friendships with other single women because they were too much in my face about my decision to allow dd to hang around teenage boys. They are shocked that i dont look at pedofiles lists. THEY are far more dangerous around my dd than the teenage boys themselves, always pointing out to dd to not show her underwear, or not get too close to some boys or not wrestle with them.

their way of protecting my dd was to never have her around teenage boys ever. and yet it IS teenage boys who even have the kind of energy needed to hang out with dd and share the same likes and dislikes - like anime. she has always gotten along better with boys than girls right from toddlerhood.

i have been molested and raped as a preschooler and a teenager. i know what its like to feel creepy around some people. i notice my dd has that judgement too. to me THAT is far more important to me than any statistics.

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Old 11-02-2010, 09:05 PM
 
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One of the biggest problems with citing statistics as far as how common child molestation might be is defining "molestation".

I had three experiences as a child that might possibly be considered molestation, depending on who you ask.

1. Mentally disabled male, about 14-15 years old, pulled up my dress and looked at my panties on the school bus when I was 6. Just as he was asking to "see what was under them", I yanked my dress down and he didn't pursue it further. I didn't sit next to him on the bus again and told my mom as soon as I got home. She called his parents, I think.

2. Female in my own class, same age as me, kept pushing things further and further when trying to instigate sexual experimentation. Because, at the end of this, she pressured me into allowing her to touch my naked genitals, I guess I'd consider this molestation but she WAS the same age I was. I halted the friendship immediately afterward and never told my parents. We were both around 10 or 11 years old.

3. Mentally disabled male, about 16-17 years old, told me a sexual story (supposedly true) and grabbed my breasts at a public library. I was 12 or so. I yelled "STOP THAT!" and immediately told the librarian, who permanently banned him from the library. She called my mother to tell her what had happened and to praise me for how I'd handled it.

While none of these are things that I would ever want to happen to my child, I only really consider incident #2 "molestation" and the perp was a same-age, same-sex child. What separates that incident from the others is that genital touching was involved and that the girl had been actively pushing me in this direction (I think she was actually grooming me!) for several months. Also, that was the only incident that was traumatic at all (for me, I think my mom was pretty upset by the other two).

And as others have mentioned, even if 1/3 of children are molested, that doesn't mean 1/3 of men/boys are molesters. I'd guess the number is much, much lower than that.. maybe 1%.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with a 13 y/o boy babysitting my 5 y/o daughter.

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Old 11-02-2010, 10:50 PM
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Would the gender difference alone affect your comfort level with the idea?
Yes, it would.

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Old 11-02-2010, 11:08 PM
 
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I wouldn't have a problem with it. So far my ds has had many babysitters - male, female, gay, straight, some I know VERY well, others I know through friends who use them as babysitters. Although no teens yet (I don't actually know any teenagers right now though), but it wouldn't bother me.

I babysat at 13, and the people originally wanted my older brother to babysit for them since he's, well, older. But, the age difference is only 6months, and he was grossed out by the thought of changing diapers (the baby was a 3mo baby girl), so clearly a baby girl wasn't going to do anything for him sexually. It worked out though, I fell in love with that baby girl, and babysat her for 3 years!

My brother did take a few babysitting jobs though, and he was the FUN babysitter! He let the kids stay up late, play rambunctious games (like tag and flag football).

I think the MOST important thing parents can do for their children is to believe them, and to teach them what innappropriate touching is, and what to do about it (calling parents isn't always an option, but telling parents when they come home and the babysitter is gone ALWAYS is - and kids should know that babysitters will not be hired back if they do things the kids are uncomfortable with).
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:51 PM
 
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I think the MOST important thing parents can do for their children is to believe them, and to teach them what innappropriate touching is, and what to do about it (calling parents isn't always an option, but telling parents when they come home and the babysitter is gone ALWAYS is - and kids should know that babysitters will not be hired back if they do things the kids are uncomfortable with).
The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:59 PM
 
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The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.
Yeah, no one is advocating leaving a 5 year old with the creepy guy from the playground in the black trench coat.

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Old 11-04-2010, 12:32 AM
 
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Yeah, no one is advocating leaving a 5 year old with the creepy guy from the playground in the black trench coat.
I sense the sarcasm, which is inappropriate in a discussion like this anyhow, but the comment also suggests only a creep in a trench coat would molest a kid which I'm pretty sure everyone knows is incredibly ridiculous.
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:35 PM
 
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The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.
I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:09 PM
 
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I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:38 PM
 
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I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:42 PM
 
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I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.
X 4 (my favorite number)

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Old 11-04-2010, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
She didn't say "in the workplace". That was your own inference. Sexual harassment can occur anywhere, anytime to any age victim. Sexual harassment can include unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.
I didn't mean to imply that ALL the other sexual molestation was harassment in the workplace.

My point is, that grouping all of these forms of abuse, from harassment in the workplace, to statutory rape by an adolescent man of an adolescent woman, to sexual abuse of a small child by a grown adult or adolescent, is not helpful in discussions like this.

It obscures the true statistics of how likely a pre-pubescent child is to be molested by an adult male. We know it's less than 1/3, but not how much less. Are 90% of molestations of teenage girls? 75%? 50% with 45% of adult women?

I don't know.

Give me a number that refers to molestation of pre-pubescent children by adults, and then we can talk.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:10 PM
 
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Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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