why is it my kids never behave but other kids do? - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

I have 2 boys 5 and 2.  I dont believe in punishments, timeouts etc.  I aspire to living consensually with my children, altho its not always possible. I look for their needs first to explain their behaviour when it irks me.

 

here's the problem-when we go to children's services at the synagogue, it is my kids, who always disrupt. 2yo runs around, climbs the furniture. 5yo, makes silly noises that are disruptive (sometimes he will answer questions and participate in a more mature manner,...sometimes) When at some other gathering, my kids will run into a place  where they are not supposed to go.

Other kids their age-dont seem to do this. Occasionally, one child (always a boy, and gender  seems to explain some of this) will  exhibit a similar behavior. Great, my boys have a playmate.

 

But before long, a mom  or dad comes to the scene, and drags their kid away.  Thats the end.

 

If i drag my kid away, they just keep on doing what they were doing.

 

If there is a place they are not supposed to go to, my kids will go anyway. If they have a playmate, that playmate hesitates, looks at mom or dad, and then shakes their head' You cant go there' they say.

 My kids wouldnt consult me.

 

So i have two theories. The first is, my boys are exhibiting totally normal behavior. The other kids are strange-scared of parents, never see their parents so grateful to be with them, have strict nanny during the week.

 

But even at attachment parenting gatherings, the kids all seem so well behaved. By that i mean, many of the parents are stay at home moms. They dont use nannies much (some do)

 

My next theory- im a single mother, so i dont have the benefit of a deep voice and scary large physique-ie, the testosterone factor-that helps keep other children in line. I  know that many gentle disciplining mothers, have husbands that dont agree with this philosophy.

 

I live in as rich neighbourhood in manhattan, and children for the most part, are well dressed and well behaved. They are mostly in daycare or with a nanny during the week.

 

 

I dont know....its really hard....

 

 

 

contactmaya is offline  
#2 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 12:51 PM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

What are you teaching them about behavior in public? Do you help to set them up for success by explaining what is expected? Do you follow through on consequences for disruptive behavior? Are they bothering other worshippers? Why do you let them go places they shouldn't-do you mean trespassing or rooms that are closed off to the general public?

 

I admit I am leery of consensual living as a philosophy. It seems great in theory but leaves a lot to be desired in practice. But we all travel our own path.

Youngfrankenstein likes this.
oaktreemama is offline  
#3 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 12:59 PM
 
fuzzylogic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Because you don't get up and enforce boundaries and consequences.  Consensual living isn't really functional with small children.  They both need and want to know that someone, not them, is in charge.  The world is big and scary and firm boundaries are useful and reassuring.

fuzzylogic is offline  
#4 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:01 PM
 
terra-pip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I have wondered the same thing about my kids. My two boys 7 and 3 just seem insane in public and at other peoples houses---sometimes at home too. Not always but a good part of the time. I am trying to be a good mom in the attatchment/consensual living sort of realm, and yet I see other families living the same way with kids who listen to their parents and then I see kids who I know live in a more mainstream home/discipline style (spanking, daycare, shuttled to babysitters or gparents, publkic schooled, TV all day etc) and they are seem to be calm and good listeners too.

 

Sometimes I think there's some magic formula to get kids to behave and act the right way without crushing their spirit that I jsut haven't learned.

 

I'd like to know exactly what to do at times.


homeschooling, breastfeeding, cosleeping mama to ds1(7), ds2(3) and dd(3 months)
terra-pip is offline  
#5 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:06 PM
 
velochic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dreaming of the Bavarian Alps
Posts: 8,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I agree with oaktreemama.  There have to be consequences of actions otherwise a child can't understand that there is cause and effect.  We are AP parents, me a SAHM, dh a rather large guy, but also an AP parent.  I'm not sure what to say other than even children have to learn that respect flows in two directions.

sebandg'smama and Mulvah like this.
velochic is offline  
#6 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Llyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 9,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not a consensual-living fan, either. Not that I think that the philosophy doesn't have something to offer-- it does. But I think all too often it degenerates into parents being too uncertain of their right to assert themselves as strong leaders. That's not to say I'm all into punishments or bribes, either. There's a whole big area in between; not being totally consensual doesn't mean that kids have to be scared of you. My children are not scared of me, or intimidated by me. Nor are they afraid of my husband. But I lead confidently, and with the assurance that I have the right to set expectations, and they respond.

I have very high expectations for public behavior. I talk to my kids ahead of time about exactly what they may or may not do-- in detail. If they cross those boundaries, I'll pull them aside, somewhere private, and talk to them about it-- remind them of the boundary. I bring them close to me, make strong eye contact, and make a clear statement about what's expected. If they cross it again, we leave the situation to take a time-out together-- the whole family together, if necessary (I have three small children.)

If we're at church, or in somebody's home, we'll go sit in a quiet corner or outside. If we're someplace where we can't find a quiet corner, we'll sit out in the car-- I'll buckle them into the car and we sit for five minutes and talk about what happened. I talk to them about how their behavior affected me and affected others. I'll ask them to talk to me about how they ought to have behaved. Then we'll go in and try again. If I've reached a point where this approach has crossed my patience too much, or I fail to get their attention even when we take our time-out together, then we go home for the day, and everybody spends some quiet time on their beds when we get home. If necessary, I will bodily carry them out of a situation.

Honestly, I don't have to do that very often. If you're consistent, and calm, and very firm about it, it only takes a few times for them to understand that you mean what you say. After that, a look can work wonders-- it communicates to the child that this sequence is going to start (reminder, timeout, trip home) if the behavior doesn't immediately change.

It helps that this is our approach to behavior at home, too. We talk in detail about expectations, and the reasons for them. I insist that they be able to describe for me what's expected-- for a very small child, it might be as simple as, "I sit, no run." Then I remind them once of the expectation, and then if they cross the boundary we've discussed, we take a discussion break in a neutral location. When that isn't working, we call a general halt in the day's activities, and everybody (me included) takes fifteen minutes on their beds. Then we regroup again, and discuss the expectations again, and then we try again.

me knit.gif, he bikenew.gif, my three reading.gif, sleepytime.gif, and fairy.gif-- and the one we lost angel2.gif
Llyra is offline  
#7 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

 It goes without saying that i do pull them aside and explain they cannot do this or that.  But then they go back and do it. Consequences? Like what, timeout? withdrawl of privileges? spanking? I dont know....i always talk to them about the behaviour that bothers me,and explain why.

 

Of course i do not take them to adult services, my kids? No, we are talking about children's services, and 'child friendly' places.

 

One place that they were not allowed to go was a playground. for liability reasons. Of course 5yo listened, but it was hard to convince 2yo.

 

Terrapip, thanks for the commiseration.

contactmaya is offline  
#8 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:40 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzylogic View Post

Because you don't get up and enforce boundaries and consequences.  Consensual living isn't really functional with small children.  They both need and want to know that someone, not them, is in charge.  The world is big and scary and firm boundaries are useful and reassuring.



A lot of that. We are a pretty consensual home, but with the understanding that young children haven't yet learned appropriate social behaviours. We still guide them and make sure they understand where we are going and what is expected and that if they can't behave properly we won't stay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 

My next theory- im a single mother, so i dont have the benefit of a deep voice and scary large physique-ie, the testosterone factor-that helps keep other children in line. I  know that many gentle disciplining mothers, have husbands that dont agree with this philosophy.

 

 


We have a same-sex parents household with two men, and I don't think anyone would describe either DH or me as "a deep voice and scary large physique-ie". We are both taller than average, but not scary large or all that deep in the voice. And we are both in on the parenting philosophy we follow.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#9 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:40 PM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

A couple of weeks ago we were at the library and my son started screaming for joy at a book. I reminded him we have to use our indoor voice at the library and if he couldn't we would have to leave. He couldn't stop the screaming so we left. There was no drama (well a bit at the car when he realized we really were leaving) and I wasn't angry or punitive. Just matter of fact. If we can't control ourselves at the library or wherever, then we have to leave.

 

We have been back twice and he reminded me last time that Mamas have to use their inside voices too.

 

Having consequences and expectations for behavior-especially in public settings- is not punitive or shaming or crushing a child's spirit. In fact I think the opposite. Children want to be included in our lives and helping them learn how to act in situations makes that possible. I expect much different behavior at the playground than at the library and my son is learning how to navigate those different settings with aplomb.

oaktreemama is offline  
#10 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:44 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 It goes without saying that i do pull them aside and explain they cannot do this or that.  But then they go back and do it. Consequences? Like what, timeout? withdrawl of privileges? spanking? I dont know....i always talk to them about the behaviour that bothers me,and explain why.

 

Of course i do not take them to adult services, my kids? No, we are talking about children's services, and 'child friendly' places.

 

One place that they were not allowed to go was a playground. for liability reasons. Of course 5yo listened, but it was hard to convince 2yo.

 

Terrapip, thanks for the commiseration.


Natural consequences. The natural consequence of not being able to behave properly on their own is to not be allowed to be on their own, they have to stay close to mom. As for the two year old, you also can't expect much in the way of self control. A 2 year old may understand "We can't go in the playground" for what it means, but when the 2 year old sees the playground they only think "PLAYGROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#11 of 146 Old 11-16-2010, 01:46 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post

 

Having consequences and expectations for behavior-especially in public settings- is not punitive or shaming or crushing a child's spirit. In fact I think the opposite. Children want to be included in our lives and helping them learn how to act in situations makes that possible. I expect much different behavior at the playground than at the library and my son is learning how to navigate those different settings with aplomb.



I think that sums it up. And really, if an adult were to start shrieking for joy in the library they would be told to leave and if they didn't the police would be called and they would be charged with trespassing.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#12 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

I do appreciate the replies, but its sounds like the assumption is that i  just let my kids disrupt everyone. I am a polite person, so  i do not allow this, and i take them out. It is very very very very exhausting for me. I am trying to figure out why other parents just sit there, and so do their kids (most of them), while mine donT. Admittedly, my 5yo is usually ok, not always. He has matured a bit and maturity plays into this.  But he can still act goofy while his peers wouldnt dare.

As for keeping my 2yo near me, you havent seen my 2yo. He is not your average clingy toddler. He is fearless, and runs off. It wouldnt matter how many times i grabbed him and kept him by my side. He would go off again. As long as i think he's safe, i cut him some slack. When it came to the playground, he repeatedly snuck back out again.  He wouldnt take no for an answer. My 5yo was less interested, being 5, and found  a pillar he could run around (that he wasnt supposed to) He found another 5yo friend to do the same. I let him because i couldnt see the harm, and was busy with  2yo.

 

Other kids tho, just wouldnt do it. I watch in amazement as 2 year olds stick by their caregiver. Especially girls. Mine dont do that.

contactmaya is offline  
#13 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 06:25 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 

Other kids tho, just wouldnt do it. I watch in amazement as 2 year olds stick by their caregiver. Especially girls. Mine dont do that.



My son is 22mo, but he's not clingy either.  He's COMPLETELY fearless.  The consequence for not listening?  Going in the stroller.  If he doesn't stay close, he has to go in the stroller.  If its safe for him to be out of the stroller and running around (a fenced in playground where I can guard the exits, or keep near him by playing with him) then he gets to run around.  We talk about how he needs to be near me, and he's getting better at it - but only b/c there's a consequence.

 

And, I'm a single mom so there isn't any testosterone in my house either.  My son is not afraid of me, he just knows that there are expectations, and consequences when he doesn't follow them. 

 

I really didn't like the tone of your OP actually, it sounds as though you think children only listen b/c of fear, and b/c parents are "big and mean and scary" - thats just not true.  Yes, some toddlers stick close to their parents b/c they're not very social, or for whatever reason, but thats not necessarily b/c they're scared of what mom and dad will do to them if they don't stick close by.  FWIW, my ex DOES believe in GD, and doesn't spank or use corporal punishment (he's much better at playful parenting than I am - its incredible actually).  I've NEVER seen my ex use the "testosterone" tactic to scare our ds into doing anything - he's very good at getting down on his level and playfully re-directing or getting him to clean up, or whatever. 

 

Kid's are frustrating, and while consensual living sounds really great, it would never work for me.

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#14 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 06:53 AM
 
crunchy_mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

One thing I want to mention is that your impression of your own kids vs. others' kids may be a bit off. I say this because I have a 21-month old who I feel like is 'all over the place', 'never listens', 'inappropriate' (i.e. not sharing, too loud, getting aggressive) etc. yet everyone is always commenting on how good he is. I'm like... uh did you NOT see me just chasing him? I think it comes down to me being very shy & inhibited so I'm hyper-conscious of the things he's doing & feel like it draws a lot of attention to us... but apparently no one really notices. Kids are kids & people understand that. It always seems like other kids (at church etc.) are so calm & well-behaved UNTIL I observe them more carefully. Am I making sense? I have no idea if this is the case in your situation or if your kids really are as wild as you think, but just wanted to point out the possibility!

 

It sounds too like your kids need a distraction, something to focus on. I know a lot of parents bring toys & books & snacks to keep their kids calm & quiet during religious services. I'm not a big fan of that, I feel that it detracts from our worship, but I do keep DS close or in arms & whisper to him about what's going on, try to engage him, quietly ask him what he wants to pray about, etc. Our church also usually has a kids' thing for 20 minutes or so, all the kids go downstairs and do more child-friendly readings, songs, sometimes a craft... DH goes down there with DS since he's really too young to follow directions etc. on his own. But that helps a ton, having a VERY kid-centered activity to break up an hour-long service. I've never been to a synagogue so I don't know what it's like though.


Co-sleeping is really wonderful when your child actually SLEEPS!! familybed1.gif
crunchy_mommy is offline  
#15 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 07:18 AM
 
Holland73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Urban Jungle on the Bay
Posts: 2,755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

And, I'm a single mom so there isn't any testosterone in my house either.  My son is not afraid of me, he just knows that there are expectations, and consequences when he doesn't follow them. 

 

 

yeahthat.gif  I am also a solo mama and have been since ds was 2 months.  There is NO testosterone in my household and my ds is age-appropriately well-behaved, but I have also been very clear with him about the expectations and consequences of his actions in numerous environments.   I have also explained, age dependent, why we have such expectations and ask him how he would feel if someone did it to him or his belongings/environment.

 

Holland73 is online now  
#16 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 07:18 AM
 
nextcommercial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't really have any idea what's going on.  But, I wanted to address the "Children are afraid of parents" theory.  I was a single mom to an active, bright daughter.  I don't believe in punishments, and believe in thinking of her actual needs first.   However, she would have never gone somewhere she didn't belong without hesitating and consulting me first.  She could have attended a children's service without being disruptive (unless it was mind numbingly boring).  

 

Obviously we had our occasional issues, but for the most part, even at a very young age, she could be in a social situation without being disruptive.  She was not afraid of me in any way.  SHe did respect me, and trusted my judgement, and did as I said because she trusted me.  But, she was never fearful of what I would do if she didn't obey me. 

 

I have a daycare in my home.  I have six kids all under the age of three years old.  I can take them all to the library, or story time, or a wee kids class, and never have a problem with any of  them.  They also are not afraid of me or their parents.  They trust us to guide them without any fear of penalty.  

nextcommercial is offline  
#17 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 07:42 AM
 
cappuccinosmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

It sounds like your kids do what many kids naturally do.  The difference is in parental response to those things. 

 

My kids are not naturally restrained either.  At home they bounce off the walls, and I usually let them, or just toss them out in the backyard to run off that energy.  But they will sit through a service (or stay with me in a store, or listen to the limitations I give at a park).  They will do this because immediate consequences will ensue otherwise and I am very consistent with it.  I had a runner for a while (he'd get out of the car and take off, usually in busy parking lots).  There was no explaining to him, and the truly natural consequence (getting hit by a car) wasn't something I was willing to let him experience.  So for a while he had no choice but to be the last one out of the car, and have me holding his hand all the way through the lot.  He didn't like that.  He had to put up with it until he demonstrated to me that he was not going to run away from me.

 

I am with my kids all the time.  They are not scared of me.  We love each other.  But they are children and I'm their mother, and I'm definitely not of the CL mindset.  The restrictions are primarily for their safety, and secondarily for them to practice functioning in a society where we can't always do what we feel like doing at the moment we feel like doing it.  I think if you want your children to behave differently, you will probably need to respond differently to their behavior.  But if you are not willing to lay down restrictions or institute consequences, then you will need to accept that this is going to be the norm for your kids, at least at their young ages.  If you believe that your parenting method is a good and healthy one, then it really doesn't matter what results everyone else is getting from different methods, does it?  Your parenting is for the benefit of your children, and if you believe that what you do is beneficial, and that their behavior is normal and healthy and acceptable, then comparing them to other children isn't going to help you or your children. 

cappuccinosmom is offline  
#18 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 5,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Also decidedly not a consensual living fan here (at least, not for under 7 or 8ish--I'm starting to do it more naturally with DD who is turning 9 in two months, but just recently).

 

However, I think kids that age do want to run wild and free and will disrupt naturally, consensual living or not, because they don't have the experience or history of learning to read/interpret/respond to social cues.  Five year olds being silly during the children's time at a service are par for the course in every place of worship I've been to (it often gets a chuckle and delights the worshipers too).  HOWEVER--allowing the kids to violate rules on where they're supposed to be and disrupting the rest of the service (you did say they "always" interrupt, which I doubt that you meant literally, I'm just guessing that they tend to be disruptive at very inappropirate, noticeable times)--that is going to have social sanctions both for you and your kids (other parents are not going to allow their children to play with yours, especially since parents tend to blame other people when their child "acts up"--so even if their child had always thought about dancing upon the altar or whatever, they're going to assume that it's your "bad" kid that taught their precious angel to do that, ect.).

 

I think that you might also want to rethink how you form your consensus.  It doesn't sound to me like your boys are much interested in intellectual discussion blah blah blah as a means of learning about expectations and rules (maybe this is why they ignore what you say, esp. in exciting situations?).  This is absolutely not a deficit on your boys' part--I think MOST young children, male or female, don't really operate that way.  That's where a reminder of expectation and then *action* come in handy.  If your boys learn by doing and moving, then as annoying as it may be, you're going to have to meet them there.  It is absolutely not punitive, if your toddler refuses to not go where he's not supposed to, for you to collect your kids and go home and do something very uninteresting for awhile.  It's not punitive to get up and take them for a walk.  It's meeting their expressed needs to run around and not be in that place.  If your synagoge has no concurrent children's programs with the service that your children want to participate in, then they simply may not be ready to go there yet.  Maybe you can enlist the help of some trusted people in your faith community to tag team with you (take them outside, take them for a walk) so that you can worship every now and then (because that is important care for YOU!).  My most difficult child learns kinetically.  (She's my DD, BTW, both my boys are much more verbally processing)  I couldn't just tell her not to do something, or how it pissed me off--I had to physically guide her either away from what I didn't want her to do, as a reminder, ect.  And I had to accept that until she matured a bit, there were just some things that I couldn't do with her and not be stressed out, so I gave her some time and looked for a worship community that met her active needs better.

 

Have you talked to the leadership about this?  You know, maybe they truly DON'T care about little ones running around, or are willing to tolerate it in the 2 year old or whatever.  It doesn't sound like anyone has come up to talk to you about it yet directly (I know that doesn't mean anything necessarily) and I'm sure you are far from the only person who has ever had to deal with that problem.  Your rabbi (?) may be able to actually reassure you that your community loves you and your kids, maybe he or she would also be a good person to bounce some ideas off of, as far as how to handle behavior during the service.  Or if not that person, are the other people that you admire/trust?

Tigerchild is offline  
#19 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 08:30 AM
 
tinuviel_k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post


So i have two theories. The first is, my boys are exhibiting totally normal behavior. The other kids are strange-scared of parents, never see their parents so grateful to be with them, have strict nanny during the week....

 

My next theory- im a single mother, so i dont have the benefit of a deep voice and scary large physique-ie, the testosterone factor-that helps keep other children in line. I  know that many gentle disciplining mothers, have husbands that dont agree with this philosophy.


 



I think you need to look beyond your two theories. My daughter (and many of my friends' children) are quite polite in public, know their boundaries, "check in" with their parent to see if an activity is okay... I can promise you that my daughter is not scared of me in any way, is told every day in word and action how glad we are that she is our girl, and does not have a nanny, strict or otherwise. Nor do we rely on a "big testosterone" scare tactic to keep our child in line. (My husband would die laughing at the idea).

 

We do have boundaries and stick to them, and consequences when those boundaries are pushed or breached. We do not have punishments in our family so much as immediate and logical consequences. Sure, my daughter has tried throwing hissy-fits in a public restaurant. It didn't take long for her to grasp (even at the age of 2.5-3 years old) that poor behavior meant that we would pay up and leave immediately. Likewise, if she behaves inappropriately in a public place she might need to come sit on a lap and be supervised. We give her time to try to get her body and mind back under control. If I need to take her out to give her a chance to pull herself together than we try that. When things escalate beyond appropriate behavior, and if she can't get it under control, we leave.

 

I am simplifying, of course. There were months on end when we wanted to tear our hair out, I'm sure. But consistency is key, as are consequences handed out with an even temper. My daughter is by no means perfect, but we do get glowing comments from many people on her behavior, and have since she was a toddler. And she is a bight, happy girl who is confident of her place in the family, knows that she is cherished and loved, and never doubts our love, even if she is in trouble!

tinuviel_k is offline  
#20 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 08:38 AM
 
EviesMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Earth.
Posts: 3,621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
Consequences? Like what, timeout? withdrawl of privileges? spanking? I dont know....i always talk to them about the behaviour that bothers me,and explain why.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llyra View Post

this sequence is going to start (reminder, timeout, trip home) if the behavior doesn't immediately change.
 


I believe she means this. For my younger child, who was a runner, it does work to put him in the stroller, strapped in, if he doesn't walk next to me holding my hand. And I have done the "bail on the trip" thing, which while it sucks, it doesn't generally have to be done more than a few times before they know you're serious about it. It's not consensual living though. I do like the idea of natural or logical consequences for things.


Happy with my DH, 2 kids, dog, fish, and frogs
EviesMom is offline  
#21 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:

I really didn't like the tone of your OP actually, it sounds as though you think children only listen b/c of fear, and b/c parents are "big and mean and scary" - thats just not true.  Yes, some toddlers stick close to their parents b/c they're not very social, or for whatever reason, but thats not necessarily b/c they're scared of what mom and dad will do to them if they don't stick close by.  FWIW, my ex DOES believe in GD, and doesn't spank or use corporal punishment (he's much better at playful parenting than I am - its incredible actually).  I've NEVER seen my ex use the "testosterone" tactic to scare our ds into doing anything - he's very good at getting down on his level and playfully re-directing or getting him to clean up, or whatever. 

 

I felt similarly. I also objected to the idea that kids behave because they don't see their parents and have a strict nanny. As a WOHM, I don't think that my kids behave because they miss me so much. And I have been very careful about who cares for them and how when my dh and I were both working. Now that my dh is a SAHD, they are still well behaved and there isn't a chance that they are scared of my dh. He's a kitten.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom View Post

The restrictions are primarily for their safety, and secondarily for them to practice functioning in a society where we can't always do what we feel like doing at the moment we feel like doing it.  I think if you want your children to behave differently, you will probably need to respond differently to their behavior.  But if you are not willing to lay down restrictions or institute consequences, then you will need to accept that this is going to be the norm for your kids, at least at their young ages.  If you believe that your parenting method is a good and healthy one, then it really doesn't matter what results everyone else is getting from different methods, does it?  Your parenting is for the benefit of your children, and if you believe that what you do is beneficial, and that their behavior is normal and healthy and acceptable, then comparing them to other children isn't going to help you or your children. 


Agreed. Safety first. Then functioning in society. It's easier now with my older dd to explain that when I want her to do something--like eat with a fork for example--my role is to guide her into being able to function out in the world in a way that's exceptable. I'm not trying to conform her in any way, just trying to lay the ground work about being polite. She doesn't always like it but I think she understands it.

 

I also think you probably need to cut yourself some slack. I do think that boys can be totally different creatures. It amazes me how much some boys are just wired to bounce off the walls. Others not so much but some of them, it's just in their genes! And although I think you can guide a two year old, I have yet to meet one that actually "behaves." I remember telling a friend once that they could avoid a lot of headaches if they just tried to avoid any situation with their little kids where there was an opportunity for "misbehaving." I think being near a playground and not being allowed to go on it is one of those times--especially for a rambunctious 2 year old boy. It's too much to expect that he wouldn't want to go there. So instead of putting him in a untenable situation and then getting frustrated when he isn't acting like you want him to, just avoid the situation in the first place. Another example: I remember someone complaining that every time that they folded the laundry, their two year old would pull over the pile. I just think putting a folded pile of laundry within the reach of a two year old is asking for trouble--setting them up to do something that is going to make you angry. So you might want to lower your expectations on what you can expect from YOUR two year old. Great that other people have ones that aren't as active as yours but you need to do what is right for you and your son.

 

Good luck. And I agree with what everyone said about having very consistent consequences if the behavior is unsafe or unacceptable. It sounds like you have tried that but if it's not working, then you need to rethink what you are expecting from them.


 


Mama to two wonderful daughers: 02/03/03 and 10/19/05
Harper is offline  
#22 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 09:04 AM
 
erinsmom1996's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 It goes without saying that i do pull them aside and explain they cannot do this or that.  But then they go back and do it. Consequences? Like what, timeout? withdrawl of privileges? spanking? I dont know....i always talk to them about the behaviour that bothers me,and explain why.

 

Of course i do not take them to adult services, my kids? No, we are talking about children's services, and 'child friendly' places.

 

One place that they were not allowed to go was a playground. for liability reasons. Of course 5yo listened, but it was hard to convince 2yo.

 

Terrapip, thanks for the commiseration.


It doesn't sound like talking to them is working and if you allow them to go back to the behaviors again they are not learning any sort of limits. My daughter was well behaved in public and at home from a very young age (with some exceptions of course because all kids act out sometimes) and it wasn't because she was afraid of me. I think you may need to be open to new ways of thinking about how people get children to behave in public. If you consistently enforce limits in a gentle way (making them sit by you, removing them from the situation, etc) they will most likely start to figure out that you mean business. I am not saying this is easy to do, of course, but it can be done and it can be done in a gentle way.

erinsmom1996 is offline  
#23 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper View Post

 

I felt similarly. I also objected to the idea that kids behave because they don't see their parents and have a strict nanny. As a WOHM, I don't think that my kids behave because they miss me so much. And I have been very careful about who cares for them and how when my dh and I were both working. Now that my dh is a SAHD, they are still well behaved and there isn't a chance that they are scared of my dh. He's a kitten.



 


Just to add to this - my ds is in daycare all day while I go to school.  He is very well behaved at "school", but acts up with me much more - I think he acts up b/c he wants my attention more than behaves b/c he wants my attention.  He's a very social child, and very well aware (for his age anyway) about how people react to him, so he's always pretty well behaved outside the house.  The exceptions are when he's tired, hungry, bored, or in a cranky mood for some reason.  With me he behaves much WORSE than he behaves for anyone else though.  It's insane.

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#24 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 09:14 AM
 
mtiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

I have 2 boys 5 and 2.  I dont believe in punishments, timeouts etc.  I aspire to living consensually with my children, altho its not always possible. I look for their needs first to explain their behaviour when it irks me.


 


Honestly? That says it all. If you don't/won't impose limits, then the children will not learn them. And yes, there are situations that require some setting of limits - like going to Temple. If nothing else, such behavior is disruptive to the rest of the community. Those who are there for a specific purpose which your children are disturbing.

 

Being a single Mom is a cop-out. I'm sorry. Develop "the look" that many mothers have. It more than replaces the deep voice and testosterone.

MJB and karanyavel like this.
mtiger is offline  
#25 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 09:37 AM
 
mtiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

I do appreciate the replies, but its sounds like the assumption is that i  just let my kids disrupt everyone. I am a polite person, so  i do not allow this, and i take them out. It is very very very very exhausting for me. I am trying to figure out why other parents just sit there, and so do their kids (most of them), while mine donT. Admittedly, my 5yo is usually ok, not always. He has matured a bit and maturity plays into this.  But he can still act goofy while his peers wouldnt dare.

As for keeping my 2yo near me, you havent seen my 2yo. He is not your average clingy toddler. He is fearless, and runs off. It wouldnt matter how many times i grabbed him and kept him by my side. He would go off again. As long as i think he's safe, i cut him some slack. When it came to the playground, he repeatedly snuck back out again.  He wouldnt take no for an answer. My 5yo was less interested, being 5, and found  a pillar he could run around (that he wasnt supposed to) He found another 5yo friend to do the same. I let him because i couldnt see the harm, and was busy with  2yo.

 

Other kids tho, just wouldnt do it. I watch in amazement as 2 year olds stick by their caregiver. Especially girls. Mine dont do that.


My kids stayed by me in Church because I made it clear to them that that was the expectation. They were not going to run around and disrupt everyone else. And if they wouldn't do so? We WOULD leave, but they wouldn't be having happy, happy fun time after. They would know I was disappointed in their behavior.

mtiger is offline  
#26 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
nextcommercial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

Just to add to this - my ds is in daycare all day while I go to school.  He is very well behaved at "school", but acts up with me much more - I think he acts up b/c he wants my attention more than behaves b/c he wants my attention.  He's a very social child, and very well aware (for his age anyway) about how people react to him, so he's always pretty well behaved outside the house.  The exceptions are when he's tired, hungry, bored, or in a cranky mood for some reason.  With me he behaves much WORSE than he behaves for anyone else though.  It's insane.



It's also very likely that he needs to unleash his bad side.  He's been well behaved all day, and he's ready to cut loose a little, and it's usually the parents that they do this with.  I have some kids who go crazy as soon as mom walks in... others wait til Mom or dad is making dinner at home, and then get on a roll.  Sometimes we just need to get it out.  I have parents who are exhausted by morning with a misbehaving child, and the kids walk in and act like they are perfect angels.  So, I always get the good behavior, parents always get the bad behavior.... But, I didn't teach most of them limits or how to behave appropriately.  The parents teach it.  I just get to benefit from it.  

 

A few, I have to work much harder with... but, not very often.

nextcommercial is offline  
#27 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 10:09 AM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
When it came to the playground, he repeatedly snuck back out again.  He wouldnt take no for an answer.


Then, it was time to leave. He was getting a clear message that he could play in the playground, as long as he snuck out.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#28 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 10:09 AM
 
zinemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: from the fire roads to the interstate
Posts: 6,588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are a couple of kids similar to what you describe at our synagogue. Let me tell you what it looks like from the perspective of one of those "other parents."

What I see is children acting out constantly. Interrupting, running around, shouting. The typical parental reaction is to say nicely, "Oh honey, please don't do that. Sweetie? Can you be a little quieter, please? Baby, I need you to stop that." All said in a very ineffectual, half-hearted tone. Meanwhile, the kid, who knows full well that what his mother is saying translates to "lalalalalala" simply carries on climbing the Sukkah pole, swinging from the stair rail, or whatever. The mother eventually gives up and lets him be, with a helpless, exhausted look around at the other parents.

Not once have I seen her say firmly to one of these children: "Kid, stop right now. If you can't stop, we're leaving." And then leave. Or physically remove him from whatever he's doing. These actions don't have to be done punitively or cruelly. But kids need limits. If they don't have them, they're going to keep on testing just how far they can go.

The other kids are fully aware of the situation and talk about these kids. "How come their mother lets them do that?" they ask. Because they understand that neither their father nor I would allow that sort of behavior in public, even though our boys are as rambunctious as any. They have been taught what's appropriate and what isn't. It doesn't sound, OP, as if you have done this. Not in a way your children have understood. Which, in my mind, has done them a major disservice.
erinsmom1996 and MJB like this.
zinemama is offline  
#29 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 10:12 AM
 
mamaofthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

i don't think posting some sort of limit/expectation on a child is unfair. i mean even adults have things they can and can not do. it wouldn't be fair or nice of me to show up at church and run around and be loud. i would be asked to leave. or i can't just go into some building or on to someones land just because i want too. i mean heck i could be shot if i went messing around on someone's land. lol 

so even if you do consensual living there are boundaries that all people must respect and live with in. so what is wrong with teaching that to your kids? even if it means you leave the place because they can't seem to get it under control.

i don't think expecting a 2 and 5 year old to have the life experience and knowledge to deal with the big world is always the right thing to do. you have, i am gonna guess, decades on them of how to behave socially and what is expected of you in certian situations. it is your job to help guide them (not beat them, not shame them, scare them etc... but GUIDE them) in how to be around others and how to be in a community. that is why we have parents otherwise we could just pop the baby out and let them at it. even animals spend time rearing their children. showing them how to be in the society they live in. 

BUT if you want to continue on the path you are on, then you must except that different children act different ways and different families raise children differently. i am a SAHM and i try to be very gentle and loving with my children. so does my DH. he isn't some big scary guy that does around swinging a belt and yelling. depending on which child it is (i have 5) some have been more out going and others have been more clingy and close at younger ages. it just depends. and i have one dd and 4 boys. go figure. 

if you want to see some changes then maybe you will have to do more then talk. i mean 2 is more of an action age, talking is boring and they don't focus well, you gotta expect that he MIGHT get 2 minutes of what you are saying, probably less. so if you don't want him doing something you gotta get up and stop it and then if it continues you might have to leave the situation.

i don't have alot of issues with kids being all over the place (as i do have 5) but if i say "this space is off limits" i do expect them to respect that. just as we practice respecting their space. it is ok to expect that.

 

h


mama to 6 amazing children joy.gif married to my main man for 21 years love.gif and finally home FULL time dishes.gifhang.gifknit.gif

mamaofthree is offline  
#30 of 146 Old 11-17-2010, 10:33 AM
 
mamazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: US midwest
Posts: 7,500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

I don't do punishments, so I wouldn't do time outs, but I don't do CL either.  If a kid of mine is disturbing people, I make that kid sit next to me, or we go outside or to the lobby until they're able to handle sitting still.  Toddlers who run around places where running can't happen are carried.  Older children who run around places where they can't hold my hand.  You just have to physically make what needs to happen happen.  You don't have to punish over it.  "It looks like you're having trouble being quiet.  Let's go outside for a minute so we don't disturb people."  "This isn't a place we can run around.  Let's hold hands."  Being quiet and sitting still takes practice, and they might need to hold your hand and sit quietly or be held for a while before they can do it on their own.

mamazee is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off