"Don't have any more kids, please!" - Page 8 - Mothering Forums

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#211 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gumblossom View Post

I hope that your comment:

 

doesn't presume that all large families cannot  properly care for their children? I am  a mother of 5, and expecting another. Every one of my children were planned, they have been spaced out, and I believe are well-cared for, loved and happy. I suppose that depends on what you consider to be "proper" care? They don't get all the toys and material possessions that other kids get, but they don't complain too much about it. They live in the country, have loving parents, a decent education and feel secure and loved.

 

I see your point about children coming into the world (which I don't consider to be "awful") when they are unwanted and uncared for, however it isn't something that is limited to "large" families. There are many small families who may not be able to care for their children. It is unfair to say that children from large families are not planned, or cared for.

 

As for the world's population problem - yes - there is an issue, however I doubt that my large family will make much of an impact, particularly in a country (Australia) where we are struggling with zero population growth - like many Western countries. I'm not saying that is the case for the U.S., however I think population is an issue that is much much more complicated than just being a case of families in Western countries choosing to have large families. There is a an issue around  massive consumption in Western countries, and education in third world countries.

 

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said.


I guess I'm presuming purely based on my own experience with only ONE child and how incredibly hard it is. You sound like a very reasonable and wonderful person/parent, but curious to what you think it would be like if everyone believed that their own choice to have as many children as they feel would effect the world. Well you can see it already, we're up to 8 billion people, and that's including millions of children needing loving homes, poverty, starvation, and so on it goes.

I appreciate you're tone, thank you for not attacking me

 

I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?

 

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#212 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiemom85 View Post

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thank you

HOWEVER i don't think there should be a difference of a opinion here, and frankly it scares me that people honestly believe that the choice to be a parent isn't one that requires much more than just "wanting more kids". It is incredibly hard to raise a child and amazing responsibilities that lasts forever. So because having a child is the most beautiful thing in the world to you, when someone reminds you that not everyone is up for the challenge or even wants to be, everyone becomes defensive. Naive is a word that comes to mind. I know of people who just do not like condoms and do not believe in abortion, therefore they have kid after kid, looked over slightly more than a house cat. So I hardly apologize if I worry about my son growing up in a world full of uncared for individuals. I spent YEARS yearning to have my child, and gave it massive amounts of thought,  and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children
 

 




Fair enough. Right now I'm wondering how your view of the world as awful and children as a drain on the awful world's resources translates into your mothering as well. shrug.gif

And to be fair, you wandered into a thread started by a mother of many asking for commiseration from other mothers of many, so it shouldn't come as a great shock when other mothers of many on the thread are upset by you comparing them to an animal popping out a litter.

You're also making an error in assuming everyone sees things the way you do. I don't share your view on overpopulation, I don't share your views on birth control, and I don't share your views on parenting. I can't imagine investing the incredible amount of energy you seem to be advocating, even if I only had one. My children are all well cared for, but I definitely not bringing them up like they're the most important things in the universe. I don't see my responsibilities as lasting "forever". I certainly hope to be raising self-sufficient children who will eventually make their own way in the world. The difference is, I am not using deliberately inflammatory language nor am I trying to convince you to have more children. I don't think I've heard any mothers on many on this thread put down women for not wanting to have more children or putting down women who don't feel "up to the challenge". I've heard lots of inflammatory language coming from the other side though, comparing us to breeding animals and advocating forced sterilization (upthread). So yes, that does make me a little defensive. Just because you think there shouldn't be a difference of opinion--something I find rather baffling by the way-- doesn't mean there isn't one.

Okay, I respect your position

Umm, okay, how do I rebuttal??

I definitely want to raise self- sufficient children but I don't think that my responsibilities to my children will ever end. I have two parents who conveniently felt that once I hit 18, I should have just figured it all out and support got cut off immediately the day I moved out. I don't want want to raise my kids having them believe that they are more important thing in the UNIVERSE, that would be an immense amount of pressure for them, I want to raise them knowing that the world does not only belong them and their time and effort are very valuable resources.  In the past it made sense to just want to raise a family, now, we live in a different world and I think that some fixing need to get done before we can keep procreating. Obviously this is what I think.

I have my son, and perhaps one day I will have one more, I'm hoping to adopt. To me the decision to have a child is a purly selfish instinct,  I'm not doing anyone a favor. And it kind of drives me a little crazy when I hear mothers that think they are doing part, just by having children. I saw a pregnancy t-shirt that said "I created life, what have YOU done lately", give me a break!

 

Forced sterilization is a little intense, I would not want to force someone into submission, Most time I actually appreciate different life styles even when I cant possibly agree with them.

I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude,  but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.

 

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#213 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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I'm going to respectfully bow my way out of this discussion,  don't feel like arguingduck.gif

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#214 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 02:51 PM
 
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I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor.  To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in. 

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#215 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KempsMama View Post

I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor.  To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in. 



This is so true. And beyond just the birth itself, everyone I know who thinks raising kids is sooo easy pretty much does not care beyond the basic feeding, clothing and keeping alive of their children. I ended a friendship over that attitude. she just doesn't want to be bothered with them at ALL. But she continues to get pregnant (with somebody who announced in front of 15 people "I f-ing hate kids.") It's people like that who give a bad name to moms of many kids who really are hands on with their kids and are raising them selflessly.

 

If you do it right, or at least TRY to do it right, it is LOTS of work. Definitely not selfish!


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#216 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 09:12 PM
 
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Hmmm..I have to say that one of the most selfless AND SELFISH things I have ever done is having my last two sons. I have raised them the best that I could to this point --- always focused on them and their best interest - I will love and protect them until the end of time, but hey...I had them both because I wanted another baby ;) Maybe everyone is right and it is a give and get situation...B

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#217 of 234 Old 06-09-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hippiemom85 View Post

I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?

 


You said in a previous post that you yearned for years for your one child. Why did you yearn for him? is it religious? spiritual? happiness? Because I can assure that every single child in a larger family, especially the larger families on Mothering, were yearned for in the same way.

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#218 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 12:44 AM
 
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It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion. 

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#219 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by holyhelianthus View Post

It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion. 



I agree, that wording is offensive.  But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.


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#220 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 10:11 AM
 
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I agree, that wording is offensive.  But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.

ummm okay, i just want to say that you just dont "get it", and that's fine. Silly of me to even have said anything at all

 

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#221 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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This is so true. And beyond just the birth itself, everyone I know who thinks raising kids is sooo easy pretty much does not care beyond the basic feeding, clothing and keeping alive of their children. I ended a friendship over that attitude. she just doesn't want to be bothered with them at ALL. But she continues to get pregnant (with somebody who announced in front of 15 people "I f-ing hate kids.") It's people like that who give a bad name to moms of many kids who really are hands on with their kids and are raising them selflessly.

 

If you do it right, or at least TRY to do it right, it is LOTS of work. Definitely not selfish!



i have ABSOLUTELY NOT NOT NOT stated that having children is EASY!, but it is selfish none the less, when choosing to bring life to this earth you are adding yet another mouth that needs to be fed, get a education, and a meaningful or at least decent job! this decision is (IMO) is not being thought of critically enough. Are you guys at all aware of what is going on in the world???? turn on NPR for one hour, listen to it in the background or something, I think miss education is to blame for this type of thinking. Our kids are going to have a REALLY hard time growing up, and we need to do all we can to make it a little easier for them.

if I can't properly convey my thoughts on line w/o you guys thinking I either hate children or whatever else, it really doesn't matter anymore because you guys feel the way you're gonna feel.

I would like to mention that your story about your ex-friend is a perfect example of people who should stop procreating. IMO of course

Okay I'm done now

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#222 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 10:28 AM
 
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I think miss education is to blame for this type of thinking. 



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#223 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 10:35 AM
 
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wow you're slick, you got me, i'm miseducated, ignore EVERYTHING ive said

 

 

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#224 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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hippiemom85 - it's kind of interesting to hear you say having a kid is selfish after reading the thread you stared below about how challenging it is to care for your toddler.  Obviously, it's very self-less, especially if you want to do so in a way that meets all of his needs, right?  You also said you want to give him a sibling, but are having a hard time figuring out how you would be able to manage that.

 

If your biggest concern is overpopulation and how awful the world is, that is fine, as it is your opinion.  Just realize that others look at it differently.  Yes, we are having more than one or two children that will then take up space on this planet, but they will also be contributing greatly, too. 


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#225 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 11:02 AM
 
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If your biggest concern is overpopulation and how awful the world is, that is fine, as it is your opinion.  Just realize that others look at it differently.  Yes, we are having more than one or two children that will then take up space on this planet, but they will also be contributing greatly, too. 


yes,  i hope so smile.gif

 

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#226 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
 
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#227 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 11:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hippiemom85 View Post

I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude,  but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.

 


Not so much an echo chamber, but it does help to consider your audience. Maybe a new thread so people who want to put the energy into the discussion can, and leave this thread for those of us wondering how to deal with rude, unsolicited advice instead of adding rude unsolicited advice of your own?

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wow you're slick, you got me, i'm miseducated, ignore EVERYTHING ive said

 

 



Lady, today is my EDD with baby #6. As much as I'd love to have a battle of wits with a stranger on the internet I....don't. Nothing personal, it's just not my job or desire to engage anyone in negativity. I was being cheeky. 

 

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#229 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 05:34 PM
 
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Lady, today is my EDD with baby #6. As much as I'd love to have a battle of wits with a stranger on the internet I....don't. Nothing personal, it's just not my job or desire to engage anyone in negativity. I was being cheeky. 

 

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#230 of 234 Old 06-10-2011, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiemom85 View Post

I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude,  but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.

 




Not so much an echo chamber, but it does help to consider your audience. Maybe a new thread so people who want to put the energy into the discussion can, and leave this thread for those of us wondering how to deal with rude, unsolicited advice instead of adding rude unsolicited advice of your own?

okay, you're right, I was just trying to show another side to it, but I shouldn't have
 

 

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#231 of 234 Old 06-11-2011, 06:14 AM
 
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I only have two kids but I love what Martha Sears would say when people would criticize her "The world needs my kids."



Here! Here! Great comeback.

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#232 of 234 Old 06-14-2011, 09:30 AM
 
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My sister has 6 and I am pregnant with #5 (a surprise).  No religious reasons or anything for having so many kids.  We come from a teeny family and want to grow the family tree.

 

Anyway, every time we tell my mom one of us is PG, she ALWAYS tells us this story about a man who kept building his house, because he thought when he stopped, he would die.  She says she thinks us having children is like him building the house.  It keeps her alive.

 

I posted my news about #5 on FB.  I got a lot of "Wows" but nothing bad.  My sister posted the story about my mom.  I said, "Yes, if anyone wants to know why we have so many kids, now you know.  We have a duty to my mom."

 

No one can say anything bad after that!   (I'm a little worried for my mom, though, since we are both REALLY done!)


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#233 of 234 Old 06-14-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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Every time I have been pregnant or had a newborn, some HORRIBLE event happens-- either a natural disaster, terrorist strike, or some terrible case of murder/rape/etc.  I can think of them all (9/11, Hurricane Katrina, etc.) Each time, I think, "What kind of world am I bringing my children into?"  It is scary!  But then I think, this is life.   We can't live in fear-- we can't pass on a message of hopelessness to our children.  Instead, we have a duty to raise children who are educated, kind, and responsible.  Let's be the ones to fill the world with them! 

 

Regarding having only a few children-- it is a very personal choice.  However, coming from a family in which I only had one sibling and a parent die when I was 13, I can honestly say that more family members would be VERY welcome to me.  I can't protect my children from the future, but at least I can give them siblings to help support them through it.  As you said, I do believe this will make it easier for them!
 

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 Our kids are going to have a REALLY hard time growing up, and we need to do all we can to make it a little easier for them.
 


 


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#234 of 234 Old 06-14-2011, 09:49 AM
 
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It's OK to wonder.  I wonder how people become concert soloists, neurosurgeons, or start their own computer companies and become billionaires.  The world is filled with amazing people.  Just because you may not be able to care for 6 children properly doesn't mean it isn't possible.  I'm sure you can do other things well!

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Originally Posted by hippiemom85 View Post I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children

 

 



 

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