Need help getting DH on board with avoiding Disney and licensed characters - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 47 Old 03-27-2011, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
CrunchyMama74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi Mamas,

It is a priority for me that my DD not be exposed to Disney, elmo etc. and my dh doesn't seem to understand where I am coming from. I've explained how I feel like licensed characters in general stunt creative play, how I detest all the cross marketing, but he doesn't really seem to get it. He was raised on Disney. Does anyone else have experience with this? Are there any websites that are helpful? TIA!
CrunchyMama74 is offline  
#2 of 47 Old 03-27-2011, 09:10 PM
 
NellieKatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I can't think of a better place to start than here:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/

 

Then there are the books, "Consuming Kids" and "Born to Buy"

 

The argument that "I was raised on [fill in the blank, from eating meat or sugary cereals, to attending public school, to watching TV or enjoying Disney] so it must be OK" is a false argument, because SO MUCH HAS CHANGED since then!! The advertising deregulation in the 1980's, the mergers that have led to the giant conglomerates, the cross-marketing between industries, the licensing crap, the obesity epidemic and the role of fast food/movie/crappy toy tie-in, the sudden surge in high fructose corn syrup, food additives that harm health & change kids' behavior, the commercialization of schools, the explosion of vaccines that modern kids have to get at the same time, earlier in their lives, the ADHD & autism & cancer rises.... bla bla bla......these issues all sound unrelated but what these things all have in common is that things that our kids are facing are NOT the same as when we grew up and we can't let people just dismiss our concerns with that one simplistic throw-away comment.

 

I'd say more but it's after midnight and I need to go to bed. That web site will give you a lot of info in the Resources section (articles)

 

Good luck! I'm with ya!

NellieKatz is offline  
#3 of 47 Old 03-28-2011, 04:42 AM
 
graceshappymum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: london, ontario
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I would seriously recommend "Cinderella ate my Daughter". It is a wonderful book and might open your DH eyes to the insidious marketing that is especially pointed at girls.

 

Good luck!

graceshappymum is offline  
#4 of 47 Old 03-28-2011, 05:06 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lost in a good book (in San Diego)
Posts: 4,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think Reclaiming Childhood is another book with info about how it changes play for the worse.

That said we avoided for the first three years or so and then just kids clothes at the park had taught dd all the characters, or books at the library I couldnt always steer dd away from, and we have watched some PBS kids on sick days and very select Disney movies now on movie nights. But we still have rules about not wearing them etc and it's balanced nicely and dd is so creative. Even with mil totally sabotaging our efforts by sneaking every lousy PBS cartoon to dd while supposedly having dd over to spend time and also buying every plastic junky tinkerbell toy lol. They stay at Grandma's house and dd plays tink at home by actually building machines out of craft supplies and blocks and such. And we finally got through to mil about the excessive tv So even if dh exposes her to some all is not lost. But I think it should be up to each set of parents how much to allow bc just willy nilly tends to be really limiting.
St. Margaret is offline  
#5 of 47 Old 03-28-2011, 10:17 AM
 
gbailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

How old is your DD, OP? Honestly and gently, why do you have to convince him of anything? Can you imagine if he got a book to convince you that your beliefs regarding Disney/marketing were wrong and parents who don't allow characters are depriving their children? Seriously. Why can't you both win? Maybe no character items until a certain age and then not go overboard with it? You can't come up with a compromise that works for you both?

 

You detest marketing but he doesn't. As parents, I think it's important to come up with a fair compromise when we have disagreements about how or what we want our children exposed to. DH and I don't always agree on parenting styles or what or when we want our DD exposed to this or that but just as much as I'm our daughters mother, he's our daughters father.

 

I used to think he bought her too much Dora related stuff but our DD is his kid too and if it makes her father happy to buy her a Dora coloring book I think it's unfair to gripe about it. My point is, you are both the parents and can come up with a compromise that suits you both while still respecting the other persons feelings and beliefs.

gbailey is offline  
#6 of 47 Old 03-28-2011, 12:47 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbailey View Post

How old is your DD, OP? Honestly and gently, why do you have to convince him of anything? Can you imagine if he got a book to convince you that your beliefs regarding Disney/marketing were wrong and parents who don't allow characters are depriving their children? Seriously. Why can't you both win? Maybe no character items until a certain age and then not go overboard with it? You can't come up with a compromise that works for you both?

 

You detest marketing but he doesn't. As parents, I think it's important to come up with a fair compromise when we have disagreements about how or what we want our children exposed to. DH and I don't always agree on parenting styles or what or when we want our DD exposed to this or that but just as much as I'm our daughters mother, he's our daughters father.

 

I used to think he bought her too much Dora related stuff but our DD is his kid too and if it makes her father happy to buy her a Dora coloring book I think it's unfair to gripe about it. My point is, you are both the parents and can come up with a compromise that suits you both while still respecting the other persons feelings and beliefs.


Yes, I think you need to think of both points through thoroughly. Although I'm sure you don't mean it this way, you are telling him, in essence, the stuff he loved as a child is terrible. If he has fond memories of it, he will be thinking of this stuff emotionally.

 

By all means, point out the marketing aspect of it. I'd also point out to him that a lot of Disney stuff for kids is poorly made and expensive. A bad combination. Their clothes tend to have a lot of synthetic fibers and the few things we were given made my dd hot and itchy. But there are a lot of differences you're going to have as parents, how much does this mean to you?

 

You might be able to find a position of moderation. Maybe no clothes. Or no Disney movies until age X. My kids have been exposed to a little Disney, but we don't watch the movies. Dd got a princess coloring book/sticker book and read a few of the Tinkerbell chapter books. She was not entranced by them. So a little exposure to Disney has not stifled her creativity or imagination. She doesn't want Disney or Barbie stuff. They're boring.

 

And at the risk of contradicting myself, you might also think about making your campaign broader. I object to my children (or to me) wearing shirts that advertise for companies. I try not to buy Gap and Old Navy, for example, especially when their logos are prominently displayed. If they want me to advertise for them, they can pay me. Your dh might have an easier time seeing the point if it's not just Disney focused.

limabean, One_Girl and gbailey like this.

Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#7 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 07:12 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post


 


Yes, I think you need to think of both points through thoroughly. Although I'm sure you don't mean it this way, you are telling him, in essence, the stuff he loved as a child is terrible. If he has fond memories of it, he will be thinking of this stuff emotionally.

 

By all means, point out the marketing aspect of it. I'd also point out to him that a lot of Disney stuff for kids is poorly made and expensive. A bad combination. Their clothes tend to have a lot of synthetic fibers and the few things we were given made my dd hot and itchy. But there are a lot of differences you're going to have as parents, how much does this mean to you?

 

You might be able to find a position of moderation. Maybe no clothes. Or no Disney movies until age X. My kids have been exposed to a little Disney, but we don't watch the movies. Dd got a princess coloring book/sticker book and read a few of the Tinkerbell chapter books. She was not entranced by them. So a little exposure to Disney has not stifled her creativity or imagination. She doesn't want Disney or Barbie stuff. They're boring.

 

And at the risk of contradicting myself, you might also think about making your campaign broader. I object to my children (or to me) wearing shirts that advertise for companies. I try not to buy Gap and Old Navy, for example, especially when their logos are prominently displayed. If they want me to advertise for them, they can pay me. Your dh might have an easier time seeing the point if it's not just Disney focused.


I agree with all this..

I guess I fall into the middle ground because I am so not a huge fan of the "princess" aspect of disney but I totally love some of their movies, at the moment DD is watching Finding Nemo and it is her favorite...We also are big fans of sesame street in this house. 

We only allow a few movies, Nemo, Ratatouille, all 3 toy stories and then sesame street...DH is comfortable with this and so am I...Originally I was super militant about no commercialization of our precious child and then I realized that I would be making a bigger deal out of the whole thing than if we just were very very picky about what we allowed her to be exposed to...No clothes etc that are disney disney disney (although she has an elmo lovey that she adores) and no cartoons of any kind on TV...In fact we don't like the TV for her at all, except for Sesame...The commercials are SO OBNOXIOUS....So we would prefer if it is the end of the day and she wants to watch a movie while I nurse her before bed we allow it, we can control it and no commercials..

 

If I were your DH, I would be feeling pretty hurt that as the PPs said you basically said his childhood was WRONG WRONG WRONG...I don't see how he would be very receptive to you when it is coming from that angle...You are both the parents, he has the right to say he disagrees with you. It isn't a matter of who can win over the other person, gotta find that middle ground. For us we found it and I am confident DD is not going to be destroyed by watching the few movies we let her and seeing sesame street. A show whose messages are along the lines of, sharing is good, outdoors are wonderful, being kind is a good thing, eating veggies is good too! How can I argue with that.winky.gif

 

Now Dora, well ,if Dora ever so much as shows her stupid little head in this house I am going to give her the boot real quickly...I cannot stand that kind of stuff...no princesses, no cartoon tv shows and NO DORA!

 

Ldavis24 is offline  
#8 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 07:25 AM
 
Magali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Molten Core
Posts: 2,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I agree with the pp's who say you should consider your dh'd point of view.  I've btdt with my dh and you know what?  They have a really good time with all their commercial Disney characters.  My dh grew up with lots of tv etc...and we have talked about it and he sayd that if we barr our kids from the things he grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood.  And he swears up and down that he turned out just fine winky.gif.   I'd like to think that even though both dh and I grew up with Disney, we are free thinking adults, whose lives have been shaped by more than Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse.  That being said, Dora and Diego are not welcome in our house hahaha...but only because they are super annoying.  Thank goodness my ds never developed a liking for them!!


 caffix.gif

Magali is offline  
#9 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 07:43 AM
 
NellieKatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

 

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

 

I hope you will take a look at the articles on that page that I referred to up above. Here it is again:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/articles/home.htm

velochic and Chamomile Girl like this.
NellieKatz is offline  
#10 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 08:49 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post

I agree with the pp's who say you should consider your dh'd point of view.  I've btdt with my dh and you know what?  They have a really good time with all their commercial Disney characters.  My dh grew up with lots of tv etc...and we have talked about it and he sayd that if we barr our kids from the things he grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood.  And he swears up and down that he turned out just fine winky.gif.   I'd like to think that even though both dh and I grew up with Disney, we are free thinking adults, whose lives have been shaped by more than Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse.  That being said, Dora and Diego are not welcome in our house hahaha...but only because they are super annoying.  Thank goodness my ds never developed a liking for them!!


 

Ugh Diego too!! So annoying...I feel bad for those parents forced to suffer through those shows, and all that stuff that come along with it..

 

I just think it really isn't that hard to allow a little bit and moderate closely. How hard is it to say, hey this movie is OK but that doesn't mean you can go all crazy and have disney princess themed crapola all over the house. I know that anti-tv anti-disney sentiments are really popular on MDC, I guess that is how I am "less crunchy" in that I am confident in my ability to be picky with what aspects DD gets to be exposed to in regard to Disney stuff...

 

OP, I guess I don't understand why it is YOUR WAY or the highway? Why can't you reach a middle ground with your DH? I know some people think that being exposed to 1 second of a disney movie will forever maim their child (ok slight exaggeration but not really) but that really isn't true.  It could be a special thing for your DH and LO to share, special movie night with daddy or something...

Ldavis24 is offline  
#11 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 09:27 AM
 
choli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyMama74 View Post

Hi Mamas,

It is a priority for me that my DD not be exposed to Disney, elmo etc. and my dh doesn't seem to understand where I am coming from. I've explained how I feel like licensed characters in general stunt creative play, how I detest all the cross marketing, but he doesn't really seem to get it. He was raised on Disney. Does anyone else have experience with this? Are there any websites that are helpful? TIA!

It's not that he "doesn't get it", it's that he does not agree with you. As the other posters have said, find common ground rather than trying to force your DH into submission to your ideals. Dismissing his opinions as "not getting it" is totally disrespectful.

 

 

choli is offline  
#12 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 09:27 AM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 

Quote:
The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. 

 

This is so true. I am with you OP. When Reagan allowed deregulation of children's television he opened the door to a veritable onslaught of advertising and brand name merchandising to be directly aimed at our kids. And the chief offender is Disney.

 

They are not interested in entertaining our children-they are interested in tattooing a Mickey Mouse logo/bar code on every child's body. Now, I know that is a bit Orwellian, but they are out there to teach children to become mass consumers of brand name merchandise. And I won't stand for it and I won't allow my son to be exposed to mass marketing he has neither the capability to understand, nor the resistance to refuse the allure.

 

When your husband was a young boy, Disney enterntained him-they didn't instruct him to nag his parents to drive him to the mall to buy MIC plastic crap. They didn't put Mickey on everything from underwear to sippy cups. They didn't do tie ins with appalling fast food restaurants. They didn't have Disney stores selling poorly made and super expensive clothing. They didn't make Movie I, II, III, IV, etc.

 

And this extends to almost all children's programming on Nick as well-we do not watch Nick here. TV is closely regulated.

 

It is impossible to avoid entirely, especially if like me you have a child in daycare. But, I can ensure it stays at daycare, and does not ever cross our threshold.

 

oaktreemama is offline  
#13 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 10:17 AM
 
VisionaryMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by NellieKatz View Post

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

 

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

 


 

Um, I'm 30. I was born in 1980, so yes by the time I was watching much, it was after de-regulation. I think a significant number of mothers here with infants and toddlers were raised after that time. You are actually older than *my* mother. Granted, she was young (18) when I was born, but maybe that helps put your comments about everyone's childhood into some type of perspective.

One_Girl likes this.

It's us: DH , DS ; DD ; and me . Also there's the . And the 3 . I . Oh, and .
VisionaryMom is offline  
#14 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 10:42 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post




 

Um, I'm 30. I was born in 1980, so yes by the time I was watching much, it was after de-regulation. I think a significant number of mothers here with infants and toddlers were raised after that time. You are actually older than *my* mother. Granted, she was young (18) when I was born, but maybe that helps put your comments about everyone's childhood into some type of perspective.

agreed, born in 86 here... 

i just googled the whole reagan deregulation thing because I had never heard of itbag.gif


 

 

Ldavis24 is offline  
#15 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 11:14 AM
 
HollyBearsMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: nomans land
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post
This is so true. I am with you OP. When Reagan allowed deregulation of children's television he opened the door to a veritable onslaught of advertising and brand name merchandising to be directly aimed at our kids. And the chief offender is Disney.

 

They are not interested in entertaining our children-they are interested in tattooing a Mickey Mouse logo/bar code on every child's body. Now, I know that is a bit Orwellian, but they are out there to teach children to become mass consumers of brand name merchandise. And I won't stand for it and I won't allow my son to be exposed to mass marketing he has neither the capability to understand, nor the resistance to refuse the allure.

 

When your husband was a young boy, Disney enterntained him-they didn't instruct him to nag his parents to drive him to the mall to buy MIC plastic crap. They didn't put Mickey on everything from underwear to sippy cups. They didn't do tie ins with appalling fast food restaurants. They didn't have Disney stores selling poorly made and super expensive clothing. They didn't make Movie I, II, III, IV, etc.

 

And this extends to almost all children's programming on Nick as well-we do not watch Nick here. TV is closely regulated.

 

It is impossible to avoid entirely, especially if like me you have a child in daycare. But, I can ensure it stays at daycare, and does not ever cross our threshold.

 


(disclaimer- my son justwrote a book report on DIsney)

 

Actually Walt Disney wrote the book on marketing to children. He took small cartoons and based on their success he made the first feature length cartoon (Snow White).  It made so much money he bought 100's of acres to build his studio.  He parlayed that in the original Mickey Mouse Club and soon after started selling all kinds of product tied to both to the show and the movies. But even before that Mickey Mouse themed products were creating marketing gold for Walt. 

 

 

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=mickey-mouse

Quote:
By 1935 Mickey Mouse and his friends had become a merchandising phenomenon. No less a cheerleader than the New York Times chronicled Mickey and Disney’s rising “multiplier role” in an otherwise bleak national economy. “New applause is heard for Mickey Mouse. . .”, wrote H.L. Robbins in the New York Times Magazine of March 1935.“The fresh cheering is for Mickey the Big Business Man, the world’s super-salesman. He finds work for jobless folk. He lifts corporations out of bank- ruptcy…” 
                         – The New York Times
                            March 1935 “The fresh cheering is for Mickey the Big Business Man, the world’s super-salesman. He finds work for jobless folk. He lifts corporations out of bankruptcy.  Wherever he scampers, here or overseas, the sun of prosperity breaks through the clouds.”
 
  Indeed, through the 1930s, Mickey Mouse merchandising exploded; hundreds of products were available across the country and around the world.  There were Mickey Mouse phonographs and radios; Mickey Mouse wrist-watches, satchels and briefcases.  There was also Mickey Mouse soap, candy, playing-cards, hairbrushes, chinaware, alarm clocks, hot-water bottles, table covers and napkins, Mickey Mouse biscuits and dairy, Mickey Mouse book-ends, and of course, Mickey Mouse music.  At least four publishers were then selling Mickey Mouse books, one of which in1934 had sold 2.4 million copies. Mickey Mouse pencils, paper, school notebooks, and tablets were sold by the million as well.  Food-product companies “hired” Mickey to sell breakfast cereal and also used Madison Avenue advertising to tout their new friend. In England there was Mickey Mouse marmalade.  New York’s Fifth Avenue sold Mickey Mouse charms and bracelets, some in gold and platinum, and a few with diamonds.  A Cartier diamond bracelet sold for $1,200. Some department stores used Mickey Mouse window displays, which could cost $25,000 for a single display.  By 1934, Mickey merchandise was earning about $600,000 a year.

 

 

My mother remembered clearly begging for  minnie mouse watch when she was young girl, my sister would have killed for the luggage. 


Pardon me while I puke.gif

HollyBearsMom is offline  
#16 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 11:26 AM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Deregulation happened in 1984, but it took some time to really build up steam. Dismissing it's impact on today's children because you grew up with it to misses the point. 

 

Children today aren't any more prepared to deal with the onslaught then we were (and it wasn't even that bad yet). Secondly, the sheer number of available channels dwarfs what was available to me in the '80's. Finally, the advertisements don't stop at TV-they are on billboards, on computers, at school, playgrounds, airports, and doctor's offices.

 

There is simply no comparision when I was growing up to what is happening today to our children. 

oaktreemama is offline  
#17 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 11:29 AM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom View Post

Quote:


(disclaimer- my son justwrote a book report on DIsney)

 

Actually Walt Disney wrote the book on marketing to children. He took small cartoons and based on their success he made the first feature length cartoon (Snow White).  It made so much money he bought 100's of acres to build his studio.  He parlayed that in the original Mickey Mouse Club and soon after started selling all kinds of product tied to both to the show and the movies. But even before that Mickey Mouse themed products were creating marketing gold for Walt. 

 

 

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=mickey-mouse

 

 

My mother remembered clearly begging for  minnie mouse watch when she was young girl, my sister would have killed for the luggage. 



Ugh. I had no idea it was that insidious even back then. I mean I remember Mickey Mouse ears and such but that is about it.

 

oaktreemama is offline  
#18 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 11:45 AM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post

Deregulation happened in 1984, but it took some time to really build up steam. Dismissing it's impact on today's children because you grew up with it to misses the point. 

 

Children today aren't any more prepared to deal with the onslaught then we were (and it wasn't even that bad yet). Secondly, the sheer number of available channels dwarfs what was available to me in the '80's. Finally, the advertisements don't stop at TV-they are on billboards, on computers, at school, playgrounds, airports, and doctor's offices.

 

There is simply no comparision when I was growing up to what is happening today to our children. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellieKatz View Post


The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face.



I agree that the marketing is much more insidious today than it was when I was a kid (another pre-deregulation mom here). However, I think that it is possible for parents to regulate this stuff. Regulating is different from banning. For the OP, since her husband has very fond memories of Disney, I think that's a more realistic approach.


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#19 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 11:58 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post


 

 



I agree that the marketing is much more insidious today than it was when I was a kid (another pre-deregulation mom here). However, I think that it is possible for parents to regulate this stuff. Regulating is different from banning. For the OP, since her husband has very fond memories of Disney, I think that's a more realistic approach.


ok thank you! I feel like I am the only one who thinks it is possible to REGULATE yourself what your kid is exposed to. I get that Disney is this all encompassing company that wants to destroy our children by marketing everything they will ever use in their life....BUT there are some really cool things that Disney does, like I don't know...make awesome movies periodically...

I think there is a huge difference between letting your kid watch hours of cartoons (with all the horrible ads) on Saturday mornings and letting a LO and daddy watch a movie once in a while...

 

It's like because Disney tries so hard to market to kids we can't let them enjoy anything that Disney has to offer? Or is it because people are so against the company in general that the kids aren't allowed to experience it at all?

I was fully immersed in all things Disney as a child and I feel like I turned into a pretty rational free-thinking mama. I am by far the most "out there" member of my own huge family and I was probably the most immersed in TV and all things Disney. 

 

OP I guess the bottom line is how much of a fight is it worth to you? I think you have totally disregarded your DH in the fact that he is also the PARENT....My DH hates when I make unilateral decisions about anything to do with DD....I get that you think it is super damaging to your kid to watch some Disney (or any tv or something, I feel like the 2 are getting intermingled) but you know what, it just isn't. There is a lot of hyperbole going on here. Your DH has every right as a parent to your child to say, " You know what honey, I disagree, I don't think watching a Disney movie is going to be horrible because I know we as parents can regulate and just NOT BUY all the crap that comes along with the Disney movies."

 

I am missing the part where just because you watch some Disney it means you have to run out and buy every single thing that Disney markets. 

 

One_Girl and lonegirl like this.
Ldavis24 is offline  
#20 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Magali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Molten Core
Posts: 2,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellieKatz View Post

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

 

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

 

I hope you will take a look at the articles on that page that I referred to up above. Here it is again:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/articles/home.htm


 We have introduced our kids to things we like and things that we want to share with them.  I don't think my kids are exposed to any more than I was.  I'm 32 by the way.  In fact, because we don't watch tv (because of commercials and because most of it is complete mindless drivel) and live simply in a remote area my kids have seen far fewer commercials than I did during my childhood.  We are Canadian too, if that makes any difference. Just because I don't censor licensed characters doesn't mean I am naive. Around here it is all about regulating and compromise.  Meh, this isn't a hill I want to die on.  We all do what is best for our families.  Just don't presume to know what my life is all about because I buy my kid Toy Story sippy cups.  I'm actually kinda crunchy :P.

One_Girl likes this.

 caffix.gif

Magali is offline  
#21 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 12:30 PM
 
limabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post

 We have introduced our kids to things we like and things that we want to share with them.  I don't think my kids are exposed to any more than I was.  I'm 32 by the way.  In fact, because we don't watch tv and live simply in a remote area my kids have seen far fewer commercials than I did during my childhood.  Just because I don't censor licensed characters doesn't mean I am naive. Around here it is all about regulating and compromise.  Meh, this isn't a hill I want to die on.  We all do what is best for our families.  Just don't presume to know what my life is all about because I buy my kid Toy Story sippy cups.  I'm actually kinda crunchy :P.


I agree.

 

NellieKatz, many, if not most, MDC mamas are probably aware of sites like commercialfreechildhood -- it's a frequent topic of discussion here, and this is a pretty informed group of parents. It's possible to be aware of the counter-argument and still choose to allow the occasional Disney character into our homes. Having a difference of opinion doesn't mean that we need to be "educated" or swayed in the "right" direction, it just means that we feel differently about the topic than you do. 

 

Regarding the general issue, I'm in the middle. We enjoy several Disney movies, and we'll buy certain things with characters on them -- mostly consumables like notepads, stickers and the like. I don't like to buy more permanent things like t-shirts or backpacks with characters on them, or with any big logo/slogan on them (as someone upthread mentioned about The Gap and Old Navy). My kids' regulation/moderation comes from me and DH. 


DH+Me 1994 heartbeat.gif DS 2004 heartbeat.gif DD 2008 heartbeat.gif DDog 2014
limabean is online now  
#22 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 12:35 PM
 
laila2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one.  My example to further explain is; I do not ban.  Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices.  We watch TV, and have a planned trip to DL, our first.  However, we have never bought clothing with characters, and DD is not into princesses, even after watching snow white, cinderella, and others.  It is not a big part of our lives.  We do not talk about it a lot, and it has not become us.

 

To me, banning begets trouble, as an example, when a family banned sugar from thier kids in school when I was growing up, the older boy, taught the younger girl to steal sugar from other kids lunch boxes, and there was a fighting incident.

laila2 is offline  
#23 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 01:12 PM
 
oaktreemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 

Quote:
reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one 

 

But to some of us it is a big deal.

 

Quote:
Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices. 

 

 

It is almost impossible for a child to be led anywhere other than down the rabbit hole so to speak. When we allow commerical TV like Disney, they are bombarded with pitches and products. That is not child led. That is advertiser led.

 

When my son is older and better able to process advertising and money and mass consumerism we will re-evaluate our stance. But for now, for our family, my dh and I feel very strongly that keeping Disney and the like out of our house is the right way to go.

 

 

 

 

oaktreemama is offline  
#24 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 01:13 PM
 
4myfinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laila2 View Post

reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one.  My example to further explain is; I do not ban.  Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices.  We watch TV, and have a planned trip to DL, our first.  However, we have never bought clothing with characters, and DD is not into princesses, even after watching snow white, cinderella, and others.  It is not a big part of our lives.  We do not talk about it a lot, and it has not become us.

 

To me, banning begets trouble, as an example, when a family banned sugar from thier kids in school when I was growing up, the older boy, taught the younger girl to steal sugar from other kids lunch boxes, and there was a fighting incident.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  Our next door neighbor growing up, Brittany, used to pay me for Kool-Aid when we were kids.  My mom didn't buy many sugary treats- usually if we had sweets they were homemade- but she did buy Kool-Aid, and because Kool-Aid was absolutely forbidden in Brittany's house, she ALWAYS wanted it and would do anything to get it.  

 

DH and I are definitely sensitive to childhood commercialization.  We don't buy Disney clothes or toys, and we don't have TV, but we let DS watch some Disney movies.  This morning he watched part of Stuart Little while I cleaned.  He loves that little mouse.  

 

OP- I understand if you don't want your child to have any Disney exposure, but if your DP thinks it's harmless, then a compromise is in order.  

 

 

4myfinn is offline  
#25 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 01:22 PM
 
mama2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: here
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I would tend to agree that compromise is probably the best approach here, as your dh's feelings are just as valid as yours, OP.  One thing, though, that I think is missing from this conversation is the fact that your dh's feelings could be taken as an example of successful marketing.  Disney banks on "creating" memories of their products, and on parents remembering or feeling nostalgia for their childhood experiences and seeking to recreate those memories for their children.  Right or wrong, I think that's how it goes.  There are specific things from my childhood that I have chosen/am trying to do differently; I am in a unique position to do that (know better, do better kind of stuff), and it seems to me that is equally valid.

mama2004 is offline  
#26 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by annalivia View Post

I would tend to agree that compromise is probably the best approach here, as your dh's feelings are just as valid as yours, OP.  One thing, though, that I think is missing from this conversation is the fact that your dh's feelings could be taken as an example of successful marketing.  Disney banks on "creating" memories of their products, and on parents remembering or feeling nostalgia for their childhood experiences and seeking to recreate those memories for their children.  Right or wrong, I think that's how it goes.  There are specific things from my childhood that I have chosen/am trying to do differently; I am in a unique position to do that (know better, do better kind of stuff), and it seems to me that is equally valid.


I get what you're saying, but that means anything a child remembers fondly, unless it was purely natural (eg. the hikes in the woods with my mom, sister and dog) is an example of successful marketing. Does that mean we have to avoid all those things with our children, because they were marketed? I have good memories of "Pirate Paks" (the kids meal at a local restaurant, which comes in a cardboard pirate ship). That was good marketing, but they were still cool. My kids like them, too (we eat there maybe twice a year) and I can't really say the marketing is hurting anyone, yk?

 

re: Disney. I don't really care about them that much, one way or the other. The Disney Princess marketing turns my stomach, but dh likes them, and so does dd1. So, I live with it. I've talked to dd1 about why I'm not that crazy about them, and I absolutely refuse to buy poorly made, over-priced crap, just because it has Belle or Cinderella on it. (DD1 does have a few of their products, from my in-laws, and I just kind of shrug - they love Disney, and they only see their grandkids for one week a year...if sending dd1 an obnoxious talking mirror with princesses on it helps them all feel connected, it's a small price to pay.) DD1 has had a few DIsney clothes (actually, I have a couple of Disney World t-shirts), but not many. These are things I just tend to let go.

 

The movies? I think we own almost every Disney movie ever made. This is, again, something dh really wanted. I'd have probably chosen a few I remembered from my childhood (Bambi, Dumbo, Cinderella, Snow White, 101 Dalmatians and maybe Peter Pan, although I hate it after seeing it as an adult, and it's one of the few we don't have) and left it at that. But, I really don't find it a big deal to have them. Disney tv doesn't even enter the picture. The two middle kids have watched some Disney Channel at a friend's, where dd1 got hooked on Hannah Montana. I could have done without that! But...for all this Disney saturation, we don't have issues with the ads. We skip right over them on most of the movies (and the ads are mostly for other movies that we already own, anyway!) We don't watch commercial television and my kids have never seen ads for most Disney products. Except for this cheap, crappy-looking Princess table, the kids have never asked me for any Disney merchandise, and we simply explained that the table was expensive, not well made and would break very quickly. That was that.

 

There's a lot of Disney out there, and being exposed to Disney can mean many different things. We're on the high end of exposure for MDC, I think...but that still doesn't mean a child has to be sucked into the endless merchandising and marketing machine.

 


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#27 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 02:16 PM
 
mama2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: here
Posts: 547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Sure, but that's the point, it's not entirely neutral, so maybe that provides a platform for considering what or how a parent might want to include things that they remember fondly from their childhood.  Or why.  I have fond memories of something called a "Steak-Umm" (sp?) that we used to sometimes have for a snack or lunch.  I think they still exist, but I wouldn't in a million years put one in my mouth again (I expect they've changed some in the thirty or so years since I last had one, also an important consideration, per this conversation), and I wouldn't offer one to ds.  I believe that considering long term marketing strategies like those used (I think) by Disney are worth thinking about, whatever the conclusion.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post




I get what you're saying, but that means anything a child remembers fondly, unless it was purely natural (eg. the hikes in the woods with my mom, sister and dog) is an example of successful marketing. Does that mean we have to avoid all those things with our children, because they were marketed? I have good memories of "Pirate Paks" (the kids meal at a local restaurant, which comes in a cardboard pirate ship). That was good marketing, but they were still cool. My kids like them, too (we eat there maybe twice a year) and I can't really say the marketing is hurting anyone, yk?

 

 

mama2004 is offline  
#28 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 02:28 PM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by annalivia View Post

Sure, but that's the point, it's not entirely neutral, so maybe that provides a platform for considering what or how a parent might want to include things that they remember fondly from their childhood.  Or why.  I have fond memories of something called a "Steak-Umm" (sp?) that we used to sometimes have for a snack or lunch.  I think they still exist, but I wouldn't in a million years put one in my mouth again (I expect they've changed some in the thirty or so years since I last had one, also an important consideration, per this conversation), and I wouldn't offer one to ds.  I believe that considering long term marketing strategies like those used (I think) by Disney are worth thinking about, whatever the conclusion.
 

I think I'm just looking at this differently than you are. Sure - there was marketing. Without it, I wouldn't have known about the movies I liked at all. But, once I'd seen them and liked them, Cinderella, Bambi and Snow White were/are no different than Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or The Sound of Music...other movies that I loved and wanted to (and did) share with my kids. I guess I just don't see what considering the marketing has to do with this particular issue. I took my kids for an occasional Pirate Pak, because I thought they were a lot of fun as a kid, and an occasional "kids meal" isn't in conflict with how we're raising our kids. If it were in conflict, then I wouldn't have let them have Pirate Paks. Since I don't actually have a problem with the content of the Disney movies I mentioned (except for Peter Pan), the marketing aspect is irrelevant to me. I saw them, and I really liked them, and I have no problem with my kids seeing them. How they may have been marketed to me in the early 70s doesn't come into play.

 

And, honestly, one of dh's most treasued "things" with our kids is taking them to see a movie every Christmas season (late November/early December). He always takes them to the latest Disney release, so they've seen Enchanted (just dd1, as ds2 was too young that year), Bolt, Princess and the Frog and Tangled. Are they marketed? Of course they are. But, the reason they're special to my kids isn't the marketing - it's the special outing with their dad.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#29 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 02:36 PM
 
Chamomile Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West of the Sierras East of the Sea
Posts: 2,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that one important thing has not been mentioned here and that is the insidious things Disney movies teach children about gender, relationships and history. Children internalize messages like a happy ending MUST include the girlie character having the big pretty wedding. There are lots of problamatic messages within the Disney cannon but the ones about gender are the ones that kill me.

It's my hill to die on.

Yeah, I watched the movies as a child also because my mother LOVES Disney. And I learned lots of damaging stuff about body image, giving men what they want, being "pretty" having tremendous value and as I mentioned before how marriage is the most important thing ever. That is a big bag full of yuck, and it doesn't even include all the marketing crap.

So OP if I were in your situation I would not let this one go by just because your husband is being nostalgic. For something like Disney (or media more generally) its not about compromise...it can't be, because a child does not have the capability to process and deconstruct the messages they receive. Not even if a parent is there to talk them through it. Not until they are much older.

Maybe a good place to start is by getting rid of the TV. If you don't have it around you watch much less media.

Chamomile Girl is offline  
#30 of 47 Old 03-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post

I think that one important thing has not been mentioned here and that is the insidious things Disney movies teach children about gender, relationships and history. Children internalize messages like a happy ending MUST include the girlie character having the big pretty wedding. There are lots of problamatic messages within the Disney cannon but the ones about gender are the ones that kill me.

It's my hill to die on.

Yeah, I watched the movies as a child also because my mother LOVES Disney. And I learned lots of damaging stuff about body image, giving men what they want, being "pretty" having tremendous value and as I mentioned before how marriage is the most important thing ever. That is a big bag full of yuck, and it doesn't even include all the marketing crap.

So OP if I were in your situation I would not let this one go by just because your husband is being nostalgic. For something like Disney (or media more generally) its not about compromise...it can't be, because a child does not have the capability to process and deconstruct the messages they receive. Not even if a parent is there to talk them through it. Not until they are much older.

Maybe a good place to start is by getting rid of the TV. If you don't have it around you watch much less media.
 


I think a child doesn't have those capabilities and I think if they DID, they wouldn't care. Most kids (having nannied a fair few before giving birth my own) are not deconstructing the bigger messages about gender etc. that are in some of their favorite movies...I think DD loves Ratatouille so much because because she likes rats! 

 

I feel like we as parents are really projecting a lot of our adult issues we may or may not have with companies like Disney, onto our kids who really just want to watch a fun looking movie...

Now the issue of the marketing that goes along with all the movies is a problem, but only if YOU the parent lets it be one. DD may love Ratatouille but she isn't getting a blanket, watch, lunch box, stuffed animal, tee shirt etc. of the movie. I control that aspect and don't have a problem drawing the line between my kid enjoying a movie and not allowing the merchandising part of it to enter her life.

 

ETA, I completely respect if it is your hill to die on, I just find it hard to relate I guess because it is definitely not a hill to die on for me. I pick my battles about the whole subject and I don't really mind if DD watches a Disney movie.

Ldavis24 is offline  
Reply

Tags
Parenting , Childhood

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off