SIL marrying a pedophile RESOLUTION Post 209 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:00 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post


 


What EXACTLY are you getting at?  I am certain I never said that no one was ever falsely accused or falsely convicted... but what do those cases, ones where there was a huge public awareness and hysteria, and all of which happened in the 80's or early 90's, and the outcomes of which have done much to inform the way allegations of child sexual abuse are handled now... what do any of those cases of to do with a conviction in 2002 of charges against a single victim? 

 

 

You are asking for evidence that it happens more than rarely... I gave it to you. I have nothing to say on this specific case because I have no clue what happened with it. I'd be more inclined to trust the conviction than what the person says.

 

I am just point out to everyone saying "false convictions hardly ever happen because it's hard to get a real conviction" that false convictions happen far more often then we would like to think.
 

 

lucysmom and 2xy like this.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#122 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:01 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

OP--no time to read through the entire thread but I hope you have called both CPS and the police already.  If not, please do so ASAP.  You *owe* it to those kids.  If mom isn't going to protect them, someone has to.  Please, please, pllllllllllease call.  This guy probably isn't even allowed to be living with kids. 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#123 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:04 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

 

You are asking for evidence that it happens more than rarely... I gave it to you. I have nothing to say on this specific case because I have no clue what happened with it. I'd be more inclined to trust the conviction than what the person says.

 

I am just point out to everyone saying "false convictions hardly ever happen because it's hard to get a real conviction" that false convictions happen far more often then we would like to think.
 

 



I am curious as to where you are getting your facts other than your own opinion  because I have never seen a single ounce of data to prove this, and having worked with kids who have been sexually abused professionally, I *highly* doubt this to be true. 

 

Regardless, why on earth would you want to test out your theory on innocent children?

 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#124 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:23 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post





I am curious as to where you are getting your facts other than your own opinion  because I have never seen a single ounce of data to prove this, and having worked with kids who have been sexually abused professionally, I *highly* doubt this to be true. 

 

Regardless, why on earth would you want to test out your theory on innocent children?

 


Where the hell did I say that? Give it to me. Show me exactly where I said we should let convicted pedophiles out to attack children again just so I could prove myself right?

 

It happens. Whether you want to admit it or not. It happens because the justice system is not perfect. It happens because the subject is so touchy people either don't want to admit it happens (and guilty people go free) or they get all up in arms and can't listen to reason (innocent people go to jail). It happens because we haven't found a way yet to provide cold, hard, indisputable evidence that someone attacked someone else when DNA isn't left behind. The same issues that let guilty people go free, let innocent people get locked up. The last thing the victim of a sexual assault wants to see is someone who didn't do it go to jail, while the person who did do it walks free.

 

lucysmom likes this.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#125 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:31 PM
 
kama'aina mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Watching Top Chef, eating Top Ramen
Posts: 21,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

 

You are asking for evidence that it happens more than rarely... I gave it to you. I have nothing to say on this specific case because I have no clue what happened with it. I'd be more inclined to trust the conviction than what the person says.

 

I am just point out to everyone saying "false convictions hardly ever happen because it's hard to get a real conviction" that false convictions happen far more often then we would like to think.
 

 



And I still contend that, no, it does not.  I did a sort of straw poll on that google search you asked me to make.  18 cases mention, 6 of which involved wrong convictions that were later overturned.  In very high profile cases where there was a lot of hysteria and presumably pressure on the PTB to reach a hasty conclusion to the situation, which makes the whole thing more about politics than about child abuse.  Also "happened" is different than "happens".  The understanding of how to appropriately interview young children about these matters has moved forward a great deal in the last 25 years, partly as a result of the cases you referred to.  Someone tries to tell me they were a victim of a coerced statement from a child in 1987 I might buy it.  In 2002?  Not so much. 

 

And again, what does "far more often than we think" mean?  No one has said it never happens.  No one.  We are saying it is not a huge number, not numerically, nor proportionally.  Not compared to the guilty who walk free.  Occam's Razor and all. When I hear hoof beats I'm gonna guess there is a horse coming, not a zebra. 

kama'aina mama is offline  
#126 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post


It happens. Whether you want to admit it or not. It happens because the justice system is not perfect. It happens because the subject is so touchy people either don't want to admit it happens (and guilty people go free) or they get all up in arms and can't listen to reason (innocent people go to jail). It happens because we haven't found a way yet to provide cold, hard, indisputable evidence that someone attacked someone else when DNA isn't left behind. The same issues that let guilty people go free, let innocent people get locked up. The last thing the victim of a sexual assault wants to see is someone who didn't do it go to jail, while the person who did do it walks free.

 


Yeah, it sucks, the system sucks, people get convicted for the right reasons or for the wrong reasons, and people get acquitted for the right or wrong reasons as well.

 

Thats why there is an appeal system, that is not left up to a jury, but to a judge.  The first appeal by a convicted individual is a matter of right, and they get an appeal no matter what the basis.  Past that it gets harder, as the 2nd, 3rd, 4th appeal are not as a matter of right, but up to the court whether they hear the case or not.

 

If a person is wrongly convicted, my expectation is that they follow their parole/probation/whatever until an appeal overturns that conviction.  Even if it means no contact with kids (who really should be considered society's most precious possessions - even though they aren't possessions exactly, they should be treated with utmost care).

 

MD - I don't think you were saying OP shouldn't stand up for the boys, and yeah, unfortunately, people are wrongly convicted far too often.

 

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#127 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:37 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post


 



And I still contend that, no, it does not.  I did a sort of straw poll on that google search you asked me to make.  18 cases mention, 6 of which involved wrong convictions that were later overturned.  In very high profile cases where there was a lot of hysteria and presumably pressure on the PTB to reach a hasty conclusion to the situation, which makes the whole thing more about politics than about child abuse.  Also "happened" is different than "happens".  The understanding of how to appropriately interview young children about these matters has moved forward a great deal in the last 25 years, partly as a result of the cases you referred to.  Someone tries to tell me they were a victim of a coerced statement from a child in 1987 I might buy it.  In 2002?  Not so much. 

 

And again, what does "far more often than we think" mean?  No one has said it never happens.  No one.  We are saying it is not a huge number, not numerically, nor proportionally.  Not compared to the guilty who walk free.  Occam's Razor and all. When I hear hoof beats I'm gonna guess there is a horse coming, not a zebra. 


 

How many of the guilty walk free become someone else stood trial for their crime?

 

One thing that make a case against someone fall flat is if another person was tried for it, even if they are found innocent, because it give the defense a chance to say "see the witness doesn't know what she/he is talking about!"

 

It's not as rare as we would like to think it is. We want to think it's one in a billion, but it's not.

 

I'm not saying that you're saying it never happens. I'm just saying that it's more often than people want to admit. Then again you and I might have a different definition of "too high a number". When it comes to sexual abuse, one is too high, if only because it means a damn good chance that one is the same number of sexual abusers that are free to carry on with no one the wiser.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#128 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 06:51 PM
 
eclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Mexico
Posts: 7,867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

 


 

How many of the guilty walk free become someone else stood trial for their crime?

 

.


I would guess (and I admit that this isn't something I have statistical knowledge about), that this happens very, very, very infrequently. Considering the percentage of sexual assaults that are never even reported, the number for which there is not a specific person accused (meaning the victim does not know who the perpetrator is), the number of case where there is a person accused but no one is ever arrested (for whatever reason), the number where an arrest is made but charges are dropped due to lack of evidence, etc . . .I'd say the wrong person getting convicted being the cause for someone who was actually the criminal walking free happens infrequently enough to not be statistically significant.

I would also suggest that false accusations probably happen far, far, far more frequently than false convictions. Are there people in recent and current times who get convicted that aren't guilty? Probably. But I would say the number we'/re talking about is very very small. Obviously, that doesn't mean a damn thing if you're the person being falsely accused/convicted - but I'm not really sure why it's relevant in this situation at all.
eclipse is offline  
#129 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:02 PM
 
kama'aina mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Watching Top Chef, eating Top Ramen
Posts: 21,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

I have already answered that I think the answer is "not very many."  Both numerical and proportionally.  I am also growing increasingly disgusted with your choice to make a political and theoretical argument in a thread started by a woman who is in anguish because she is afraid of what might happen to her nephews.

kama'aina mama is offline  
#130 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:17 PM
 
iamleabee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantimama View Post

 Well that is the problem with crimes like this. Most child molesters find a private place where there are no witnesses or cameras and they choose victims who are not likely to be believed if they even do tell anyone. They go to great lengths to ensure their victims never report them and to do all they can to make sure they won't be believed if they do tell.

 

My dh works in a profession where he has to be aware of not putting himself in a position where he could be falsely accused of sexual misconduct. I am well aware of the vulnerablity of some situations for men. That said, there are huge numbers of child abusers who get away with their crimes. Those who never get reported never get convicted. Those who are not believed by the parents, teachers, etc the children choose to tell - those abusers never get convicted. The court system is horrific for victims and many do not go through with accusing. Because there is of often no "proof" the abuser often goes free. There are many types of sexual violence that leave no evidence behind, especially if there is any kind of delay in reporting what happened. A simple bath or bedtime toothbrushing can wash away any evidence and at that point it is the word of an adult against a child. If the child has been told no one will believe them or something terrible will happen if they tell, then it remains a secret and the criminal walks free. The motivation of a sex offender to lie and pass as innocent is much greater than the motivation of a child to lie and expose themselves to the stress and shame of being questioned and examined for lying about sexual abuse.

 

It is far easier for a sexual criminal to walk free than for someone who is innocent to be tried and convicted of a sexual crime.

 

I have to wonder about the people who are saying we should give this poor guy the benefit of the doubt. Would you be saying the same thing if this was someone joining your family or having regular, easy access to children you love and care about?


 

um, yes. i have to wonder if the "wait and see" approach of some people here is because we are talking about theoretical risk to the children of someone on the internet? would you be so cavalier with your own children, placing them in daily contact with a known sex offender? with your children's friends? even if this dude leaves his nephews alone just being around children puts him in frequent contact with other children...children and parents who do not have the benefit of making the risk analysis that the OP's sister made (well, he's a convicted child sex offender but i'm OK with him being around my children...). and then, if something happened to one of her nephews or the nephew's friends or relatives of the nephew's friends, to know it could have been prevented from the outset!

 

TiredX2 likes this.
iamleabee is offline  
#131 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:21 PM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't get it either. In fact I'm pretty disgusted by it.

swede likes this.
Arduinna is offline  
#132 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:25 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post

 I am also growing increasingly disgusted with your choice to make a political and theoretical argument in a thread started by a woman who is in anguish because she is afraid of what might happen to her nephews.

Interesting you should say that, considering you were involved in this part of the conversation before I was...

 


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#133 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:30 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Where the hell did I say that? Give it to me. Show me exactly where I said we should let convicted pedophiles out to attack children again just so I could prove myself right?

 


Correct me if I am wrong, but it *sounds* as though you are saying that innocent people are convicted of sexual assault, therefore, we should give those who are convicted of sexual assault the benefit of the doubt and assume that there is a substantial chance that they are in fact innocent.  And, that being the case, trust that they are safe with our children.  That is what it sounds like you are saying.

 

And I am saying that I don't care if 99% of convicted pedophiles are actually innocent (which they aren't).  I would not trust a single one of them around my child.  EVER.  Children are too precious. 

 


 

 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#134 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:32 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Also, MusicianDad--Where do your facts come from?  Of course the judicial system is flawed.  But do you really think there are lots of innocent people convicted of sex crimes?  Enough to give this dude the benefit of the doubt?  That assertation is outlandish. 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#135 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:33 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but it *sounds* as though you are saying that innocent people are convicted of sexual assault, therefore, we should give those who are convicted of sexual assault the benefit of the doubt and assume that there is a substantial chance that they are in fact innocent.  And, that being the case, trust that they are safe with our children.  That is what it sounds like you are saying.

 

And I am saying that I don't care if 99% of convicted pedophiles are actually innocent (which they aren't).  I would not trust a single one of them around my child.  EVER.  Children are too precious. 

 

 

No, I'm am saying we can't ignore the fact that innocent people are convicted of sexual assault not matter how we feel about it. I didn't say anything about giving any one the benefit of the doubt. I do believe I said this though: 

 

 

 

Quote:
I'd be more inclined to trust the conviction than what the person says.

 

Right here, at the top of the page. Read my post http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1307797/sil-marrying-a-pedophile/120#post_16387468


 


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#136 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:37 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

Also, MusicianDad--Where do your facts come from?  Of course the judicial system is flawed.  But do you really think there are lots of innocent people convicted of sex crimes?  Enough to give this dude the benefit of the doubt?  That assertation is outlandish. 



Ok... again...

 

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT GIVING ANYONE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!

 

I said people get falsely convicted. I said the number of people getting falsely convicted is higher than we would like to believe. Yes, "WE" that includes myself. The idea that someone is being locked up for another persons crime scares the hell out of me. 

 

I never said we should give this person or anyone else convicted the benefit of the doubt. Maybe tentatively if the conviction was overturned. But only then.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#137 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:40 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



 

No, I'm am saying we can't ignore the fact that innocent people are convicted of sexual assault not matter how we feel about it. I didn't say anything about giving any one the benefit of the doubt. I do believe I said this though: 

 

 

 

 

Right here, at the top of the page. Read my post http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1307797/sil-marrying-a-pedophile/120#post_16387468


 



Then what is your point exactly?  So what?  Innocent people are sometimes (rarely) convicted of crimes.  So what?  It has nothing to do with OPs situation.  Nothing.  She needs to act as if this guy is guilty (which he nearly undoubtedly is anyhow) in order to protect these kids.

 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#138 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post





Ok... again...

 

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT GIVING ANYONE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!

 

I said people get falsely convicted. I said the number of people getting falsely convicted is higher than we would like to believe. Yes, "WE" that includes myself. The idea that someone is being locked up for another persons crime scares the hell out of me. 

 

I never said we should give this person or anyone else convicted the benefit of the doubt. Maybe tentatively if the conviction was overturned. But only then.



You strongly imply it by hijacking a thread about protecting kids from a sex predator to bring up the fact that sometimes people are wrongly convicted of crimes.

 

Arduinna, raelize and zebu like this.
APToddlerMama is offline  
#139 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:43 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Since I was just trying to point out that false convictions actually happen... And more than just once in a life time, and not trying to convince people we should let convicted sex offenders roam the streets as some people are trying to argue I am saying. I am out.

 

I made my point.

 

Believe if you want to.

 

A broken system won't fix itself. Work on getting the right people in jail, instead of the wrong people.

 

I do not advise you do expose your children to a convicted sex offender.

 

 


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#140 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



 

No, I'm am saying we can't ignore the fact that innocent people are convicted of sexual assault not matter how we feel about it.

 

 

 


 


 


Actually we can. And for the safety of children we need to take convictions at their face value.

raelize likes this.
Arduinna is offline  
#141 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:45 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Since I was just trying to point out that false convictions actually happen... And more than just once in a life time, and not trying to convince people we should let convicted sex offenders roam the streets as some people are trying to argue I am saying. I am out.

 

I made my point.

 

Believe if you want to.

 

A broken system won't fix itself. Work on getting the right people in jail, instead of the wrong people.

 

I do not advise you do expose your children to a convicted sex offender.

 

 


It isn't an appropriate place to make that point. 
 

 

Arduinna, milletpuff and ~savah~ like this.
APToddlerMama is offline  
#142 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:46 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



 



You strongly imply it by hijacking a thread about protecting kids from a sex predator to bring up the fact that sometimes people are wrongly convicted of crimes.

 

 

 

It was hijacked long before I got here. I made one statement, to clear up semantics on the first page and someone else decided to jump in and start claiming "what if he's innocent". So go back and read the actual thread instead of throwing out gross accusations to people who do not deserve it. Save yourself some face before you start really start looking like you only care to use this thread to vent your own person dislike of another poster.
 

 


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#143 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:47 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


It isn't an appropriate place to make that point. 
 


Not a valid reason to make gross, inaccurate claims about someone.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#144 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:53 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

MD--I read through... I don't think I'm making any wild claims.  I am done with this thread.  Regardless, I am glad you conclude child shouldn't be left with sex predator.

APToddlerMama is offline  
#145 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:55 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

MD--I read through... I don't think I'm making any wild claims.  I am done with this thread.  Regardless, I am glad you conclude child shouldn't be left with sex predator.


You are claiming I said something I didn't say and would never, ever say.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#146 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 07:55 PM
DBZ
 
DBZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I've known 2 sex offenders over the years. They both claimed to be innocent. The one was convicted of trading pictures of kids online. He said he was doing it to research why pedophiles do what they do. He did this 'research" every place that he had internet access (school library, his grandmothers house, etc.). The first time he got caught he got a slap on the wrist. He did it again and is now in prison.

 

Then this other guy was convicted of molesting an 8 year old boy. At first he said he only took a shower with the kid. He blamed the girlfriend. When he was on probation for that he got caught going on the internet so he went to prison for violating probation. 

 

The trend with these men is that they all say they didn't do it. The man is grooming your sister and her kids. I would call the police, social services, and the parole department. 


Kara, single mom of 4 girls (5, 8, 16 and 19) crochetsmilie.gif
Kids have strokes too! superhero.gif 

DBZ is offline  
#147 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 08:33 PM
 
kama'aina mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Watching Top Chef, eating Top Ramen
Posts: 21,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

MusicianDad, your very first post in this thread was a hair-splitting comment about whether registering as a sex offender and then moving to a different address in a different town, into a house with children, constituted "not being registered"... and your judgement was that he WAS registered in that situation.  From the word go, your opinions in this thread have seemed apologist for this guy, who is a convicted child molester, and who (it seems) is failing to meet the legal requirements of his situation.

peainthepod and swede like this.
kama'aina mama is offline  
#148 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 10:01 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post

MusicianDad, your very first post in this thread was a hair-splitting comment about whether registering as a sex offender and then moving to a different address in a different town, into a house with children, constituted "not being registered"... and your judgement was that he WAS registered in that situation.  From the word go, your opinions in this thread have seemed apologist for this guy, who is a convicted child molester, and who (it seems) is failing to meet the legal requirements of his situation.


How the hell is differentiating between unregistered and not updating your address being an apologist? It is a statement of fact that they aren't the same. If you check it out, the person I was speaking to admitted that she mis-typed. "Registered at a different address" and "Unregistered" are two different legal requirements that are being unmet.

 

I now think that you are simply grasping at straws to try and villainize me and turn me into some sort of pro-pedo freak. And before you say it.... I have done nothing to do that myself. It is all you and your assumptions and the fact you obviously have a huge problem with me even being here at all.


malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#149 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 10:07 PM
 
ramama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishmommy View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post



Yes, that bears repeating. An aggravated sexual assault means that there was injury or permanent damage done. This wasn't fondling or even what I'd consider molesting (not that those aren't damaging). This was actual harm being done to a child. This man was CONVICTED of causing injury to a child in the commission of a sex offense.
 

 



I could be totally wrong, but I thought that sexual assault against a child under 14 is automatically considered aggravated sexual assault. Whereas in the case of an adult victim it implies physical maimings, kidnapping etc.


It varies by state, but generally it is considered aggravated if there is sexual penetration of a child under 13 or 14.  We're not talking about a case where there is no mark left on the child, a he-said she-said case ripe for false accusations.  We're talking about physical evidence on the child.  Alhtough I don't know, there is a high probability of DNA evidence in cases like these.  Aggravated sexual assault is much easier to prove for these reasons.  This man is dangerous.  The fact that he kept his convicition secret from his future wife is a huge red flag.  My oldest DD is seven and this whole situation makes me want to vomit.  Again, we're not talking about a case of fondling or inappropriate exposure (I'm not arguing that those crimes aren't damaging, just that they're considerably harder to prove) we're talking about either physical injury and/or penetration of an 8 year old.  There is no way, no how, that I would tolerate this man being around any children, whether my own, those related to me, or children I don't even know.  


Wife to DH and mama to DD(7) blahblah.gifand DD(5) moon.gif...Lola the Wiener Dog dog2.gif, Faulkner the Little Giant dog2.gif, Ginger the Wonder Cat cat.gif,  Azkaban the blue parakeet, Sunny the yellow parakeet, 3 nameless hermit crabs, and a whole bunch of fish!

ramama is offline  
#150 of 213 Old 04-13-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Cyllya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 


Quote:
MusicianDad, your very first post in this thread was a hair-splitting comment about whether registering as a sex offender and then moving to a different address in a different town, into a house with children, constituted "not being registered"... and your judgement was that he WAS registered in that situation.  From the word go, your opinions in this thread have seemed apologist for this guy, who is a convicted child molester, and who (it seems) is failing to meet the legal requirements of his situation.

 

 

Um, what?

 

Personally, when I saw Lucy Alden refer to him as an "unregistered sex offender," my first impression was that she misread that part of the OP's post, which is a common message board mistake. I don't know how correcting something like that constitutes "seeming apologist" for the convict. (Indeed, Lucy Alden agreed with the correction.) Especially since it could end up being relevant to the OP's situation. (If she calls the police and says there's an unregistered sex offender living there, but the police find out he is registered, would that make them stop investigating the situation?)

 

Some people in this topic are criticizing others for giving the convict "the benefit of the doubt" or "defending" him. But no one suggested giving him the benefit of the doubt, and no one said anything to defend him. The closest anyone ever came to that was one person suggesting that the OP talk to the SIL and the convict for more information before deciding on a course of action, and even that person said they'd keep their kids the hell away from this convict. And while I disagree with that person's advice, I think comments like "Wow, just wow" and calling her suggestion "sickening" are totally uncalled for!

 

After people started complaining about others posting about the possibility of false convictions, a one or two other people popped up to defend their own falsely convicted acquaintances, but still, no one has said anything to defend to convict the OP is talking about. So people need to stop accusing other people of doing so.

 

 

 

Quote:
I am certain I never said that no one was ever falsely accused or falsely convicted...

 

No, but you did say this:

 

 

Quote:
I am shocked and saddened that a number of people are convinced that men are convicted of abusing children on little or no evidence "all the time."  I think that if you had ever had any actual experience with the criminal justice system, around this issue in particular, you would not believe that.  It is very difficult to get a conviction in cases of this nature.  This contention that "bitter ex-wives" are throwing men in prison in droves, just on their word, is offensive and dangerous.

 

...even though no one in this topic ever said they think "that men are convicted of abusing children on little or no evidence 'all the time.'" Since no one said literally what you're complaining about them saying, it sounds like you're referring to what they are saying ("it happens sometimes") and just exaggerating for effect, and either way, you are disagreeing with them.

 

Basically, you and MusicianDad agree on what he's actually saying (a small number of people are falsely convicted of sex crimes), but you're reading a bunch of weird extra stuff into hid posts so that you can argue with him about that stuff.

lucysmom likes this.
Cyllya is offline  
Reply

Tags
Family Issues , Making Healthy Families A Guide For Spouses Parents And Stepparents Making Healthy Families Series , Therapists Lawyers And Divorcing Spouses Journal Of Divorce

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off