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#91 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 08:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

The OP doesn't say they're best friends, just that they are neighbors and do things together, and almost all the things they do together appear to be due to the parents being friends rather than the kids being friends. At some point kids reach an age where you being close friends with someone's parents doesn't make the kids close friends. The only thing that they do together that isn't about the parents spending time together and the kids being together by default is that they sit on the bus together, which could be just because of when they get on the bus and not because they are really close.

I have neighbor friends I'm close to, and our kids used to play together a lot but really only because we and the neighbors got together a lot. But now that the kids are older, it turns out their personalities clash and they really aren't friends, though they are polite and spend time together when our families get together. But I wouldn't expect my dd to invite their dd to a party, or their dd to invite mine, just because our families get together. When dd was younger, she was always invited to my dd's parties because the two girls spent so much time together, but there was a moment where it became obvious that they only spent time together because we are friends with the other girl's parents, and the girls don't invite each other to parties anymore.

I think this is more about growing up and changes in how friendships are formed and maintained, and not really about entitlement. The OP's dd is younger, so she might not have reached that same stage.


ITA, it's about growing up and changes in friendships and how those are formed and maintained, not about entitlement. 

 

Where maybe I see it a bit differently than you though (or maybe not?), is that in OPs mind, there was more of a relationship, and her dd thought of the other girl as her best friend.  We may all have different opinions based on OPs specific situation whether that feeling was "reasonable" or not, but that doesn't matter - this is how OP and her dd saw it, and you can only act on what you know/feel/believe. 


But yes, in this case, it turned into a good lesson on changing relationships or disparities in how a relationship is seen.  From the other mom's view it probably made all the sense in the world not to include OPs dd, but that doesn't mean OP - given her perception of the relationships - is wrong to wonder what's going on and why her dd was left out. And to ask about it.

 

No one is "wrong" or "right" in this case, it's about different perceptions of relationships, and it's the way life goes.

 

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#92 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EFmom View Post

When you call the other mother to interrogate her about why your kid wasn't invited, you've crossed the line into entitlement.


I don't agree.  If you're friends, you should be able to ask.  Maybe the invite had gotten lost, or maybe something had happened to offend OP's neighbor that needed to be addressed.

 

Regardless, we have all made the same points about 100 times regarding our opinion on entitlement so I am going to bow out.  Clearly the group is pretty split, but I don't think any of this is useful to OP anymore. 

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#93 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EFmom View Post

 


When you call the other mother to interrogate her about why your kid wasn't invited, you've crossed the line into entitlement.

 

 

Nobody wants to see their child hurt. But I seriously doubt the intent of the birthday child was to hurt anyone's feelings. I cannot, nor should I, shelter my child from every disappointment in life. It's part of the human condition and she needs to learn how to deal with it when it occurs. If she were being bullied, I'd intervene because the intent of the bully is to hurt and it is an ongoing thing. Not getting invited to a birthday party because someone has size/cost limitations is not malicious.



 


 


 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post

I can totally understand being upset and confused about not getting an invite. But it's just one of those things that happens. I can't believe the OP called the mom, really. I think that is just so rude and a little bizarre, TBH.


 

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#94 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by beenmum View Post

Using enttiled is actually perfectly acceptable and does make sense in the context I used it.

 

entitledpast participle, past tense of en·ti·tle (Verb)

1. Give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something. 

 

 

 

If that girl had gone up to the OP's child and said "You're not invited to my party." then that would be hurting the childs feelings. And if it were my kid I would cancel any birthday plans.

 

That is actively hurting the kids feelings.

 

To invite 6 kids from the same grade your in....that is not actively hurting the OP's kids feelings.

 

My DD is in school, swimming and in 4 dance classes a week.

 

If I had to invite every single child so I didnt hurt anyones feelings I would be unable to throw a party at all.

 

So allowing her to choose whom she felt would enjoy the party the most is exactly what she is entitled to do.

 

Not every kid in all her classes are entitled to be invited by virtue of spending time with my child.

 

To assume that your child should be invited and then get upset when she is not and confronting the parent about not inviting your child..THAT is entitlement. The notion that your child should have been chosen and not one of the other kids on the list. Or to say that this mum shoudl have just shelled out the extra cash so HER daughters feeling werent hurt..,THAT is entitlement to something you are not entitled to.

 

does it hurt..of course. I have never said otherwise.

 

But I would be humilated if someone called me up and asked why her kid wasnt invited to a party I threw, and then have to confess my finances to her. Then have her post that she felt angry and bitter about it.

 

 

 

 

 



 

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#95 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Beenmum,

 


Please go back and re-read my initial posts so that you have accurate and factual information. I never once said anything about being angry. I did say I was bitter. I was bitter. I was bitter because I was going to have to deal with DD's hurt and sadness and her feeling left out. How is that entitlement? I also never said that another child should be cut so that mine would be included. Additionally, I never asked or expected the mother to "shell out" the extra cash for my DD. The assumptions you have made in this thread are little offensive actually. Lastly, if you had bothered to read my posts you'd see I did express how this could turn into a learning opportunity for DD; in life there are disappointments and you won't always be invited to everything. That doesn't sound like entitlement to me.

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#96 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For whatever reason, I'm having trouble with the quote function...it's not posting my replies, only the quotes.

 

In no way did I call my friend (the mom) and interrogate her, as a poster assumed up-thread.  I called her and we had a conversation.  In my group of friends, we talk, we share, we are honest with each other.  Was it 100% comfortable to do so?  No way.  I even prefaced the conversation by apologzing for the awkwardness.  But I was able to take away an explantion for DD, so that I could have an honest discussion with her about not being invited. 

 

Now, with all the being said, DD never even found out about the party.  The party was a few days ago and so far, even with the girls playing every night for a few hours, it hasn't been brought up by anyone.  And I have talked to my friend several times and we are fine.  There are no hard feelings on either side. 

 

I appreciate everyone who had helpful and gentle advice and comments for me on this thread.

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#97 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 12:26 PM
 
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a big hug to you  Mamatoablessing! When I was pregnant with my first son I never imagined that there would be this kind of heartbreak being a mom! These types of things hurt the parents as much, if not more than the children. I think you were right to ask the other mother because you do know her. Of course she is not obliged but still things like this hurt. Sorry you all had to experience this!

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#98 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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Glad that in the end, so far your daughter is blissfully oblivious. :)  While the "different views on the same relationship" issue is something we all have to wrestle with at some point, it's nice NOT to have to explain to a heartbroken dd for now.  Take care!

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#99 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 03:24 PM
 
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May I ask what the difference between Bitter and Angry is?

 

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#100 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 03:32 PM
 
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I honestly have to say that I resposnded to what you said:

 

Well, I couldn't wait for tomorrow so I ended up calling the mom just now.  It was an uncomfortable situation...I'm pretty sure the mom wasn't prepared to be confronted (although I dd it very gently).  Seems that the birthday party is a mani/pedi thing that costs $25/head so mom told daughter that she could only invite 6 kids.  My DD didn't make the cut.  It sucks and I'm bitter.  I completely understand the whole cost thing and that inviting too many girls would be prohibitive.  I guess I would rather spend a few more bucks and make sure no one's feelings got hurt.  But life is full of disappointments and DD has to learn that...she won't always be included in everything.  

 

And I did NOT make assumptions.

 

You NOW say that your group is open and it wasnt a big deal to call. But your above post says that it was uncomfy. What other conclusion was I to draw? You used to words uncomfy and confront.

 

 

If you did NOT mean that you think the mother should have shelled out the extra money fo ryour chid so her feelings werent hurt...then what did you mean by the bolded line above?

 

 

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#101 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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And the irony of this whole issue/conversation is that if the birthday girl's mom had said "What?  Your DD did not get her invitation?  I mailed it out last week!" everyone here would have been saying "Good thing you called or your daughter would have missed the party." 

 

But, then, you might have wondered if it was really a case of a mis-directed or late invite or whether the mom was so put-on-the-spot that she issued the invitation just then (and hoping you'd decline it because she wasn't *really* invited).

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#102 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenmum 

I honestly have to say that I resposnded to what you said:



Well, I couldn't wait for tomorrow so I ended up calling the mom just now. It was an uncomfortable situation...I'm pretty sure the mom wasn't prepared to be confronted (although I dd it very gently). Seems that the birthday party is a mani/pedi thing that costs $25/head so mom told daughter that she could only invite 6 kids. My DD didn't make the cut. It sucks and I'm bitter. I completely understand the whole cost thing and that inviting too many girls would be prohibitive. I guess I would rather spend a few more bucks and make sure no one's feelings got hurt. But life is full of disappointments and DD has to learn that...she won't always be included in everything.



And I did NOT make assumptions.



You NOW say that your group is open and it wasnt a big deal to call. But your above post says that it was uncomfy. What other conclusion was I to draw? You used to words uncomfy and confront.





If you did NOT mean that you think the mother should have shelled out the extra money fo ryour chid so her feelings werent hurt...then what did you mean by the bolded line above?



Please stop telling me that I said things I did not. Both my posts make reference to the fact that the call was uncomfortable (please see most recent). Do you only have easy conversations with friends or do you occassionally talk about something deeper? I did not say the call wasn't a big deal. It was...that is why I posted here in the first place. But I do think that real friends can and should be able to speak candidly and frankly with each other. I'm not saying that is an easy thing though.



As for the last quote you bolded above about paying the extra money...I was simply stating what I would do...me, personally. Not what I thought the other mom should do.



And the difference between bitter and angry?



Bitter leaves a bad taste in my mouth that will go away eventually. Anger is a stronger emotion which might require more time to get over or perhaps even apology.
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#103 of 106 Old 05-10-2011, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom View Post

 


When you call the other mother to interrogate her about why your kid wasn't invited, you've crossed the line into entitlement.

 


I don't see what she was doing as interrogation.  I think it's the flip side of a coin.  If I do something that might be potentially upsetting to someone, I might have someone say something to me, or question me.  I might not like it, but there are always two sides to every issue.  Of course no child is entitled to go to a party just because she has gone to them previously, but the idea that we are entitled to being protected from someone asking us, because it's some etiquette line that just cannot be breached is just as ludicrous to me.  It honestly could have been a situation where the invitation was lost or whatever.  I feel like we're never supposed to have open conversation, we're just supposed to pretend everything is fine.  But it doesn't work because we are humans with feelings, and I think a little communication can honestly help.  

 

Now I don't think I would have asked, but I would have just assumed that the child didn't want mine there.  For me, knowing it was something like a manicure party that cost $25 a head would make it easier to understand, so I'd be happy to have that information.

 

When I was in the 10th grade, I wanted to be a candy striper.  I wasn't aware that anyone ever got turned down for this, but I filled out the application, dressed up and went to my interview.  I didn't get accepted.  I was like the only one from my school who applied who didn't get accepted.  My mom thought they were discriminating against me for my weight, but I told her that the woman who interviewed me was just as fat.  So I ended up calling and talking to the woman in charge about why I didn't make it in.  The woman didn't seem to understand what I was asking, she just kept questioning why I was questioning her, so I let her talk to my mom.  She was taken aback that I called to ask why I didn't make it and said, "No one has ever called to ask that" as if I had crossed some etiquette line.  But it was important to me to know for future interviews, I just can't imagine why I was the only one who didn't get chosen, and I thought having a reason would make it easier to accept, and show I had a persistent attitude or something.  She wouldn't give a reason until my mom asked, "Is it because she's only 15 and most of the other 10th graders are already 16?"  The woman agreed that was it.  Then I found out a 14 year old friend in the 9th grade got accepted.  I think my weight probably was a factor.

 

So here I am, 30 years later and just as socially inept, I guess, but I just don't see that asking is that big a deal.

 

Of course, when I was at my dad's viewing a day after he died and confronted by my cousin's wife who told me the story off all these relatives who asked to be invited to their daughter's wedding and how obnoxious it was, I commiserated with her.  And then she point blank said, "My daughters will be expecting an invitation to your wedding" in a tone that would brook no disagreement, I said, "Oh sure" and sent both her kids an invitation.  Now that, I thought, was pretty rude.  But I figured why hurt feelings for $70 a plate.  lol.gif

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#104 of 106 Old 05-11-2011, 07:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamatoablessing View Post

And the difference between bitter and angry?

Bitter leaves a bad taste in my mouth that will go away eventually. Anger is a stronger emotion which might require more time to get over or perhaps even apology.


Thanks for clarifying how you were using the word. I've mostly heard people use "bitter" to describe feelings that they have a hard time getting over, or hold on to for a long time, so it's good to have more clarity on how you use the word, since I also perceived it as a quite strong word to use for this scenario. 

 


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#105 of 106 Old 05-11-2011, 12:24 PM
 
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I don't see what she was doing as interrogation.  I think it's the flip side of a coin.  If I do something that might be potentially upsetting to someone, I might have someone say something to me, or question me.  I might not like it, but there are always two sides to every issue.  Of course no child is entitled to go to a party just because she has gone to them previously, but the idea that we are entitled to being protected from someone asking us, because it's some etiquette line that just cannot be breached is just as ludicrous to me.  It honestly could have been a situation where the invitation was lost or whatever.  I feel like we're never supposed to have open conversation, we're just supposed to pretend everything is fine.  But it doesn't work because we are humans with feelings, and I think a little communication can honestly help.  

 

Now I don't think I would have asked, but I would have just assumed that the child didn't want mine there.  For me, knowing it was something like a manicure party that cost $25 a head would make it easier to understand, so I'd be happy to have that information.

 

When I was in the 10th grade, I wanted to be a candy striper.  I wasn't aware that anyone ever got turned down for this, but I filled out the application, dressed up and went to my interview.  I didn't get accepted.  I was like the only one from my school who applied who didn't get accepted.  My mom thought they were discriminating against me for my weight, but I told her that the woman who interviewed me was just as fat.  So I ended up calling and talking to the woman in charge about why I didn't make it in.  The woman didn't seem to understand what I was asking, she just kept questioning why I was questioning her, so I let her talk to my mom.  She was taken aback that I called to ask why I didn't make it and said, "No one has ever called to ask that" as if I had crossed some etiquette line.  But it was important to me to know for future interviews, I just can't imagine why I was the only one who didn't get chosen, and I thought having a reason would make it easier to accept, and show I had a persistent attitude or something.  She wouldn't give a reason until my mom asked, "Is it because she's only 15 and most of the other 10th graders are already 16?"  The woman agreed that was it.  Then I found out a 14 year old friend in the 9th grade got accepted.  I think my weight probably was a factor.

 

So here I am, 30 years later and just as socially inept, I guess, but I just don't see that asking is that big a deal.

 

Of course, when I was at my dad's viewing a day after he died and confronted by my cousin's wife who told me the story off all these relatives who asked to be invited to their daughter's wedding and how obnoxious it was, I commiserated with her.  And then she point blank said, "My daughters will be expecting an invitation to your wedding" in a tone that would brook no disagreement, I said, "Oh sure" and sent both her kids an invitation.  Now that, I thought, was pretty rude.  But I figured why hurt feelings for $70 a plate.  lol.gif



That's the thing with asking. You can't make someone tell you the truth.

mom to 14yr dd and 4yr dd
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#106 of 106 Old 01-08-2012, 04:43 PM
 
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I so agree.  The difference here is that they were friends beyond school AND were in the same neighborhood.  The birthday girls' mother should

have had the tact to call and explain this or find a way to include.  "Desperate" is really not part of this at all.  This was not handled well and 

calling the mother to give her a chance to explain takes a bit of courage.   She did it gently, showing empathy with the difficulty of the situation,

and it took grace to do that. 

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