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#31 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 12:15 PM
 
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Does anyone have any words for me? I feel like a bad mom tonight.

 

Yes, some words.  You are not a bad mom, you're a good mom, caring, very committed and thoughtful. 

 

You seem to be resisting some really reasonable advice while insisting that your daughter just isn't that way.  That doesn't make sense.  Your current situation isn't working, right?  The collective advice of the experienced mamas here, looking in from a different point of view, is that you need to try something else.  You might find out something new about your dd.  Shift your perspective and open your mind to other possibilities.  You, your ds and dd have nothing to loose.

 

 

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#32 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
 
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When there are two children and one of you, sometimes one of your children has to wait longer than you'd ideally like. That is not CIO. That's life. You will go to her as soon as you can. It does not make you a bad mother. If you were an octopus with 20 foot arms (and breasts), maybe you could do it. 

 

I would also gently suggest that you reconsider how you're doing things or look for alternative solutions. What you're doing doesn't appear to be working from our (imperfect) perspective. What about it is keeping you to this routine?

 

And have you had her examined for reflux or apnea? My 20 minute napper/nurse all night kid has reflux. I feel terrible because I didn't realize it until she was verbal enough to explain what her tummy was feeling (and that was age 4-5).


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#33 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 05:36 PM
 
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I just wanted to send hugs your way. I have no life saving sage advice but I do get what it is like to have a horrific sleeper. I don't think there is a magic pill but know that it does get better. My first two were bad sleepers and if they didn't nap they were insane but getting them asleep and stay asleep ruled my life. People didn't understand why I couldn't just (fill in the blank).

I wish you peace and strength.

 

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#34 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much ladies. I felt I had no where else in the world to turn so I came here for help and I appreciate it all and have been listening to the advice. Today we did one nap and she went to sleep easily enough. She can fall asleep no problem, she just cant stay asleep or be moved out of my arms. My son was at preschool today so I laid with her and she napped 30 minutes from 10-1030. She had woken up for the day at 6 am. So anyhow she was awake the rest of the day from 1030-700 pm. I got her to sleep right away at 7 as she was exhausted but within 10 minutes she was awake again. I just dont get it. I couldnt get her back to sleep because she wanted to nurse another 30 minutes. I am really really failing at being a mom. I just cant handle this! If I only had one child it wouldnt be so bad but I feel awful for my son. I should have explained my son who is 5 is emotionally disturbed following the deaths of 4 close family memebers including my husbands 50 year old mom who really was a co parent to me since my dh is never home. He was so close with her and spent the night with her often and they were best friends. She died as well as 3 other family members and he has really taken it hard. We go to a child therapist and she said it is vital I spend one on one time with him without the baby. He is not getting any of this time and he is truly suffering. 

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#35 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Goodness maybe she does have this? How would I know? I would feel awful if its because of reflux. 

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#36 of 47 Old 05-16-2011, 09:23 PM
 
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I have a3.5 year old who has to wait for me many nights while I do the bedtime battle and I really understand. You feel so bad and likethere isn't enough of you to go around.

 

Some things that have helped me keep my dd asleep (she is an all night nurser and wakes up multiple times a night, ready to play, but then is a bear all day because she is not rested) a very consistent bedtime routine that includes really feeding her,and  I mean stuffing her. I give her dinner, then she goes straight to the bathtub, plays in the water for 30 min or so with her brother, then she gets a snack....usually peanut butter and bread and a cup of chamomile tea or whole milk, then I set him up with something to do while I get her down. The tea/snack thing makes SUCH a difference in how long she sleeps. Also, if she is extra cranky, I assume she is teething and give her tylenol right after the bath, so that she is calmed and relaxed by the time she falls asleep. I play certain songs over and over for hours sometimes to keep her asleep, or turn on white noise (you can find white noise samples on youtube, which is what we use).

 

Even with that she still wakes up at least 2x a night. But we are slowly working on nightweaning from 8PM to midnight, and by taking it a day at a time I have seen some improvement.

 

I don't know if any of that helps. but I know it's not easy and it sometimes seems like there just is no solution.  I do understand. If I hit on a magic solution I'll be sure to come back and shae it! My ds also has emotional needs that I sometimes feel guilty that I'm not meeting properly. I wish you all the best, and please don't beat yourself up over this!


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#37 of 47 Old 05-17-2011, 05:53 AM
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I would really really look into the possibility of reflux or something similar. I am not super familiar with it but from what I have read I would take a guess in that direction for your LO...

The fact that she sleeps alright in your arms and what I assume is at an incline might be a hint in that direction. 

I'm glad one nap worked out well for you, I can imagine it was a little less stressful than trying to force 2 naps on a baby who fights you the whole time. 

You are not a failure!

You are a saint for managing, my own DD has never been a good sleeper but she is a saint compared to your DD and I feel lucky that I wasn't worrying about another kiddo while trying to tend the baby the whole time.

Goodluck and perhaps another mama can chime in with the reflux thing because really in my head waking up every 30 minutes all night doesn't sound very normal or even that healthy for a baby who needs some good sleep!

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#38 of 47 Old 05-19-2011, 01:59 PM
 
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Can you get her to sleep on her tummy? She's past the age where SIDS is a major concern, and if she's got reflux, that might help.

 

Two other suggestions and a question: What does your dh do that he's never home? Is there a possibility that he can take some time off/come home earlier so that you can have some 1-1 with your son? And then maybe HE can have some 1-1 time with your son? If that doesn't work, can you HIRE someone to take your dd while you spend some time with your son? Can you trade babysitting with someone?

 

My mom lost 4 members of her family in a car accident 2 years before I was born. I know it took an incredible toll on her and on my siblings who were around then. Please be gentle with yourself. I would prioritize your self care above everything else right now. You can't be a good parent if you're used up. Do YOU have a therapist to talk to about your mom's death?

 

And please schedule an appointment with your dd's doctor about reflux. She's got some very classic symptoms.


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#39 of 47 Old 05-19-2011, 03:47 PM
 
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I had a baby like that. My DS is 4 1/2 years old now, and still we can't flush the toilet at night without waking him. I had to put baby powder in the cracks of the hardwood, because if the floor creaks, he wakes. He has never not once ever slept through the night, except when he had the flu.

As an infant, he slept ONLY on the breast, ONLY in my bed, ONLY in complete silence and darkness. Letting him stay up until he got good and tired just backfired-- then he couldn't even fall asleep on the breast, because he was overwrought and overtired, and he'd scream and scream and scream until one night my neighbor called the police, thinking something horrible must have happened to me so that I wasn't picking up the baby.

He never slept in the car. He wouldn't sleep in a sling. He wouldn't sleep in a stroller, bouncy seat, or in anybody's arms. He slept on his left side, on my right breast, and that was IT.

He never took a bottle until he was 15 months old, and refused pacifiers.

I had a 2 year old and another infant (DS's twin).

I tried to go back to work part-time when he was four months old-- I was out of the house three hours that first night, and when I came back he'd been screaming from the minute I left the house, and hadn't stopped. I had to resign.

Nobody IRL really believed in the magnitude of his sleep problem, until DH and I went out for dinner and a movie when the twins were seven months old, and after less than an hour my mom was on the phone telling us she couldn't cope with the screaming anymore, and I HAD to come home. I got back, and she had my cousin, my cousin's friend, my step-dad, my aunt, and a neighbor who is an experienced mother, all there with her, all frantically trying to help my mom soothe the baby. After that, people seemed to "get it."

So I think I kind of have an idea of what the OP is dealing with. OP, I feel for you, so much. hug.gif

Unfortunately, I don't have a magic solution, either. We coped, on a minute-to-minute basis while he was very small, and on a day-to-day basis as he got older. What tipped the balance for us, and brought us into a better place, was that I was very sick that first year (I have a serious chronic illness) and couldn't continue night nursing any longer. I was very, very sick, and only one step away from debilitating surgery to save my life. I needed rest. Out of the dire necessity of protecting my life, we nightweaned, and it was sheer hell. It did, however, solve our falling-asleep problem-- he learned new sleep associations. But it was not the gentlest process, and clearly not something he was ready for, and I would not have done it if my back hadn't been up against the wall.

OP-- I don't think that a few minutes of crying when you are attending to somebody's urgent need is cio, not at all. I understand that advice to find new sleep routines is frustrating when a baby is overwhelmingly resistant and persistent. I used to have to leave DS in the playpen while I got my two girls fed and settled to sleep. It was heartbreaking and horrible when he'd cry, but really, what could I do? I couldn't be in two places at once, he made it frankly impossible for me to use all the creative solutions everybody had to offer, and so we did the best we could.

FWIW-- he's a healthy, happy, regular little guy, very emotionally secure, and easygoing. He still doesn't sleep worth a fart, that's true, but I have never seen that the few minutes of crying he did when I was seeing to me girls did him any harm at all.

Anyway, I wish I had some solid advice-- I really don't. I never found anything that worked without crying. I don't believe in CIO sleep training, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about. It sounds like you're talking about doing the best you can with the two hands you've been given, in the face of two little ones who both have needs.

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#40 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 08:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovingmylife View Post

To the above poster, but times I left her to cry then minute or so she fell asleep. 

So if you let her cry for a minute she falls asleep.  Otherwise you spend 1.5 hours each time trying to get her to sleep?

How is this even a debate, seriously.

 

I honestly think being SO terrified of letting a child cry causes more problems than it solves.  It wouldn't even register on my radar if one of my kids cried for SIXTY SECONDS.  How do you people pee?  winky.gif

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#41 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 08:12 AM
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So if you let her cry for a minute she falls asleep.  Otherwise you spend 1.5 hours each time trying to get her to sleep?

How is this even a debate, seriously.

 

I honestly think being SO terrified of letting a child cry causes more problems than it solves.  It wouldn't even register on my radar if one of my kids cried for SIXTY SECONDS.  How do you people pee?  winky.gif

I haven't peed alone since DD was born and she is 2 now...If I do close the door on her she just runs over and bangs on it hysterically..I miss the good old days of pooping in peace as well.

 

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#42 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 08:14 AM
 
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I haven't peed alone since DD was born and she is 2 now...If I do close the door on her she just runs over and bangs on it hysterically..I miss the good old days of pooping in peace as well.

 



oh my goodness.  I would go insane.  InSANE!!  


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#43 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 08:40 AM
 
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*hugs* mama.. I have been in a similar situation with my two (2.75 and 6 months)... neither are good sleepers, both are sleep fighters,  and my DH goes out of town a couple nights a week for work. we have had to figure out lots of creative things for sleep..

 

a few things-- first I would try to rule out reflux or food allergies/sensitivites. does she have any food allergy or reflux signs? My DS2 definitely sleeps worse when he is having tummy issues. He has reflux, food intolerances, and I have oversupply and overactive letdown which gives him gas.. just a few things to consider..

 

second- do you have a good routine to your day? a few weeks ago I instituted a "schedule" to our day (very loose, but I try to stick with it) and it has made a HUGE difference in both of my boys. The younger one is sleeping more predictably, and the older one is getting a chance to run off energy and have his needs met at certain times, so that he is more easily occupied during the times I need to get DS2 to sleep and he has to play alone. Oh, and I highly recommend reading "sleepless in america" LOTS of great ideas for structuring your day to maximize sleep!

 

third-- you need to figure out something else for getting your DD to sleep. One nap a day most definitely, two 15 minute naps are not worth it. She is a year old, not a tiny infant anymore, and I would do some gentle sleep training. I would not be spending an hour getting her to sleep. Honestly I would nurse/rock for 15-20 minutes max and then lay her down.. if she cries you can go back in after a few minutes, but if she is falling asleep after one minute- by all means do it. you could also try leaving her in her crib with a few toys and the light on and see if she falls asleep by accident.. sounds counterintuitive, but it has worked for my DS1 who previously would only sleep with dark, quiet, and lots of cuddling (and rocking and nursing when he was a baby). we just tell him he has to rest quietly and we will be in there in a few minutes, and he falls asleep. Now if we tell him that he needs to go to sleep and we turn off the light and close the door, he freaks out.

 

you have two kids now, and you can't get to both all of the time.. an hour is too long to leave your DS alone without any contact a few times a day. that said, before you do go back to get your DD to sleep, make sure that he has a snack, toy, movie, everything he needs so that he is not waiting on you for those things. honestly i don't know how you have made it a year without her having to cry alone some! You are doing a great job, you are a great mom, you just need to cut yourself a little slack. ;)

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#44 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 11:16 AM
 
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Wait - so if she cries for that one little minute, she falls asleep? There's your answer, right there! Let her cry for one minute and you won't have to spend hours attempting to nurse her to sleep.

I'm no CIO advocate, but clearly hours of nursing are not meeting the child's needs to go to sleep. But if a minute of fussing or crying will have her asleep, then clearly she's a tension releaser and needs that minute to go to sleep. Letting a child cry who will absolutely fall asleep after that one minute is not CIO, imo.
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#45 of 47 Old 05-20-2011, 12:26 PM
 
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Wait - so if she cries for that one little minute, she falls asleep? There's your answer, right there! Let her cry for one minute and you won't have to spend hours attempting to nurse her to sleep.

I'm no CIO advocate, but clearly hours of nursing are not meeting the child's needs to go to sleep. But if a minute of fussing or crying will have her asleep, then clearly she's a tension releaser and needs that minute to go to sleep. Letting a child cry who will absolutely fall asleep after that one minute is not CIO, imo.


I totally agree with this.  A child crying for 1 minute is NOT CIO.  My DD went through a similiar phase.  She is my rough sleeper.  She still is very restless and has to now throw herself all over her bed to get to sleep (and yes she gets plenty of outside/climbing/running time).  It's just how she is.  I think she may already have restless leg syndrome... I have it, and some nights it's impossible for me to get to sleep without all kinds of stretches and what not too.


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#46 of 47 Old 05-23-2011, 02:22 PM
 
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I would definitely rule out any health issues/reflux/whatever, and if you can solve that or there's nothing to cure, let her cry for the minute (or 5) and then fall asleep. I was determined not to let DS CIO and was horrified whenever he started crying. It was exhausting. Finally, when he was around 1, two things happened: One was that he dropped one of his two naps, and actually started sleeping 3 or 4 hours every afternoon. If your DD is only sleeping 15 minutes at a time, maybe the nap won't be so long, but I'd expect a half hour, at least. The second was that he started crying at night after I got him down. He was never too easy to get to sleep, but something in our routine had to change. Once I started doing things a bit differently, it worked fine. One of the things I did was start feeding him right before bed to make sure he was as full as possible. (He wasn't eating solids yet. If your DD is, give her something filling. IDK if BM is more filling than, say, an avocado or something like that, but it can't hurt to try.)

 

Something else that jumped out at me... Lots of moms have come on here for advice on how to deal with the older kid when a new baby comes along. Across the board, the advice was to tend to the older kids first, then the baby, even if the baby is crying. That surprised me, as most here are anti-CIO, but it made sense. They said that the older kids know consciously they're having to wait til the baby is settled, and they start to feel resentful and more needy of attention. If they know they, too, are a priority and can see that they come first sometimes, they don't feel as insecure and the baby isn't any wiser to know that the big kids are getting their needs met first.

 

You've gotten some good advice here. I hope you'll find it in yourself to give different things a try (and give them a chance to work too -- it won't happen overnight) and that you can find a good routine that works for all of you. And once you do, know that something else will change and you'll have to do it all over! ;-)

 

ETA: I got distracted by DS and lost my point in there. I don't think what you did was CIO, and at around the same age, I *had* to let DS cry a little at night b/c that was the only way he would actually get to sleep. I didn't like it, but it didn't last long once I stuck to my guns and stopped going in. Going in just upset him more and got him distracted, where I think with leaving him alone, he would cry a bit to get out the last bit of energy from the day, and then was able to unwind. Having us around (even now) is too stimulating for him to relax sometimes. He is now 3, and gave up his nap, but apparently still needs it sometimes. We do quiet time, but if he moves around too much, he has to go in his room by himself instead of staying with me. The days he goes into his room, he naps for a couple of hours at least 90% of the time. The days he stays with me, he doesn't sleep 100% of the time.

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#47 of 47 Old 05-23-2011, 07:28 PM
 
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this is in no shape way or form CIO.

not even a little.

promise.


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