Welfare Moms - Should we be supporting moms so they can stay at home with their children? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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And may it succeed.

 

Whats the purpose of any thread?

 

Who cares? 

 


 


 

 


shrug.gif  I don't really care.  But I do find it...tacky.

 

Mainly because of this statement:

 

 

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Surely we can all agree that having a parent at home during infancy, toddlerhood, and the early years of childhood is much better for the child.

 

 

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:22 PM
 
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sponsoring a family.. that reminds me of some math I did one night awhile ago.   I wanted to find out how much the richest people in America made compared to my husband and I.  I found that the top earners were making in 30 SECONDS what we will make in 20 YEARS.  They could literally donate one day of pay and pay hundreds of family's bills for a month or a year giving those families a chance to save money and get their heads above water.  We aren't even poor in my opinion.  We pay all our bills with some left over without any government assistance... and yet 20 years later we will finally have made what a few people made in 30 seconds.  It boggles my mind.

 

It frustrates me that there is such a divide among the extremely wealthy and those in poverty.  I don't suggest the wealthy HAVE to give up money to pay for the poor, but I really feel like divides like that just simply shouldn't happen.  I think it is completely ridiculous that the very tops of some companies make more in a year than most of us will ever see in our entire lives while the people working the bottom jobs IN THAT SAME COMPANY can't even afford to make ends meet month to month.  I feel like there needs to be some sort of cap... the highest earners can't make more than x% of the lowest earners within the same company.  It really just doesn't make sense that anyone can make SO MUCH while so many go without anything.

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:46 PM
 
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I don`t understand why that statement is tacky. I would consider it true in most cases. Doesn`t mean not having a parent home with the child is bad for the child but I would think most people would agree that having one parent home in the earliest years would be best for the child.

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shrug.gif  I don't really care.  But I do find it...tacky.

 

Mainly because of this statement:

 

 

 

 



 

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Old 05-26-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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Children who are well taken care of by their parents benefit all of us in the long run.

 
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:52 AM
 
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I don`t understand why that statement is tacky. I would consider it true in most cases. Doesn`t mean not having a parent home with the child is bad for the child but I would think most people would agree that having one parent home in the earliest years would be best for the child.



 


I agree, is someone going to say that people think it's *better* to have a child raised at home without a parent?  This isn't saying anything bad about working parents whether they have to or choose to. 

 


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Old 05-27-2011, 07:12 AM
 
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Well I feel like my daughter has a right to be raised by her parents and see me more than a couple hours in the morning before daycare and 3-4 hours at night before bedtime. Assuming I could get a day job. My choices are either work full time at a job that barely covers the cost of child care or stay home with DD and collect "welfare" which in our case is food stamps and being on medicaid (never did the WIC thing) and be judged because I make a choice that I feel is MUCH more valuable on an individual level (other mamas could probably contribute a lot more financially to their family) to my family. Yay for meeyesroll.gif It's fun enough getting the stink eye at the grocery store from people when I buy the expensive organic dairy stuff and then use my foodstamps ebt card, I guess now I have the pleasure of knowing people think I am "abusing" the system...

 

I DON'T want taxpayers to support my family but unfortunately the way this country is my options are limited and me staying home with DD is vitally important in my eyes. Important enough that I am willing to take the scorn from those that feel like I am doing something wrong. I suppose I should add, just so people don't think I am totally a drain on the system and one of "those people"...We have 1 vehicle for our family, a 95 toyota pickup that we can barely squeeze into and we live with my MIL...Mamas who work outside of home are making HUGE sacrifices for their families that they feel is best...so are those of us who are choosing to stay at home a lot of the times...I may have made barely enough to cover childcare with a full time job but our budget would have a little more leeway than it does now with me not working...

 


 

 



Yeah that. Tons of people dont think its okay to buy all organic stuff with food stamps. I get dirty looks all the time.

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:26 AM
 
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I think the whole reason why the American way to doing things doesn't work is because those who do work and pay tons of money for private health insurance can look at those who stay home on Medicaid and food stamps and be like: "why can't I get some help." 

 

I refuse to play that game. I support paid parental leave for all and a better social safety net for all, including single-payer health care. 

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:35 AM
 
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I think the whole reason why the American way to doing things doesn't work is because those who do work and pay tons of money for private health insurance can look at those who stay home on Medicaid and food stamps and be like: "why can't I get some help." 


Exactly. My DH summed it up as jealousy, and I do think that's what it is. People are jealous if you have nice things like an expensive car or organic produce. They are jealous if you get help they're not getting. They are jealous if you are staying at home while they're working 12-hour shifts. It would be nice if we could all be content with what we have and help out those who need it and gracefully accept help ourselves when we need it. I won't lie, I'm not remotely left wing, but I think every human has basic rights (including food, shelter, childcare by parent or affordable daycare) and we should go the extra mile, by whatever means works, to make sure everyone has their basic rights met... especially for our children.

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:39 AM
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I think the whole reason why the American way to doing things doesn't work is because those who do work and pay tons of money for private health insurance can look at those who stay home on Medicaid and food stamps and be like: "why can't I get some help." 

 

I refuse to play that game. I support paid parental leave for all and a better social safety net for all, including single-payer health care. 


agree but those same people probably aren't willing to go to the lengths that others have, how many people who pay tons of money for private healthcare are willing to cut costs in other areas of their lives? Sell the extra car, drive a piece of junk...live with a family member because it's way cheaper...Never go out to eat, NEVER go on vacation etc...It's all about choices. All some people see is the "help" us poor folks are getting and are jealous as you said. Well I am jealous that I don't have a nice car to drive but once again these are choices I've made and I can live with them without letting my jealousy get to the point where I think those people are bad or wrong or whatever.

 

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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I would quit my job today, and be pregnant every year for the rest of my life if someone would give me $22 K a year for each child.

 



Probably not.  (well, I cannot speak for you but that is not how it works In Canada.  Most people do not have large families)

 

If I work for 700-900 hours, I can receive maternity leave for about 1 year. Maternity leave is 55% percent of gross pay per week to a maximum of about 450$.  If you have a decent job, you could earn around $22,000 per year on mat leave.

 

Despite this, there is not a huge trend of people working, going on mat leave, working, going on mat leave, working, going on mat leave.....

 

Nor, for that matter, do super rich people who can afford as many kids as they want keep having kid after kid after kid.

 

Kids are a blessing and a responsibility.  Many people have ideas in their heads about family size.  Money is only one factor in how large you grow you family.

 

Now, it is very possible that if the USA offered a decent mat leave, the population would swell initially.  It is also possible, given the financial hardship the US is under, it might cause a temporary raise (not sure though - our stats do not go up significantly in difficult financial times....)

 

edit to add:  a quick google search of birth rates in USA and Canada shows that the US has a higher birth rate than Canada - despite having less generous maternity leaves. 

 

 

 

 

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:12 AM
 
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I hate that the word "welfare" was used in the original title of the article.  It's been turned into a derogatory term that drudges up the stereotypical "welfare mom."  Chain smoking, booze drinking, sleeps all day, parties all night, kids run wild, etc.  This is about as far off as you can get from the reality of the situation. I realize though that the title is there to incite interest and get people's blood boiling, but it still irks me. 

 

What is "welfare" really?  Financial help from the government, right?  Lots of big business gets welfare then.  Look at how much these companies have paid in taxes according to Forbes magazine.  What about financial aid for college students like Pell Grants?  Is that not the same thing?  Is it considered socially acceptable because they are trying to do something to enrich their future?  Isn't raising a responsible child enriching the future of our country?  It's really all about perspective.  We are wiling to shell out money to GE and big oil, but our hard working mothers (and lets all agree it is a HARD job) get the shaft?  What is wrong with this picture?


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Old 05-27-2011, 08:20 AM
 
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This is how we live because we have private health care. We are lower middle class and falling fast because of our shitty private health care.  Do you know how much an MRI costs?  I do.  I also know how much physical and occupational therapy cost because I can't afford them for my daughter, nor do we qualify for ANY programs.  I can tell you a long and depressing tale of what it's like to be lower middle class with a special needs child and private insurance, but it would take all day.

 

I don't begrudge anyone else the help they get, but I wouldn't mind a little myself.

 

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agree but those same people probably aren't willing to go to the lengths that others have, how many people who pay tons of money for private healthcare are willing to cut costs in other areas of their lives? Sell the extra car, drive a piece of junk...live with a family member because it's way cheaper...Never go out to eat, NEVER go on vacation etc...It's all about choices. All some people see is the "help" us poor folks are getting and are jealous as you said. Well I am jealous that I don't have a nice car to drive but once again these are choices I've made and I can live with them without letting my jealousy get to the point where I think those people are bad or wrong or whatever.

 



 

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:29 AM
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This is how we live because we have private health care. We are lower middle class and falling fast because of our shitty private health care.  Do you know how much an MRI costs?  I do.  I also know how much physical and occupational therapy cost because I can't afford them for my daughter, nor do we qualify for ANY programs.  I can tell you a long and depressing tale of what it's like to be lower middle class with a special needs child and private insurance, but it would take all day.

 

I don't begrudge anyone else the help they get, but I wouldn't mind a little myself.

 



 

yes I do unfortunately...as well as the out of pocket cost of a reconstructive knee surgery...

My issue was more with those claiming that being a sahm and taking food stamps or being on state insurance (I'm in ma so it's a little different here being mandatory and all) is a bad thing... It's not like we are out living the high life because we get food stamps and free health insurance..choices choices

 

I personally think private insurance is just effed up and national healthcare for all...but then again I'm with bernie sanders being a democratic socialist so I must be crazy!
 

 

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:32 AM
 
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agree but those same people probably aren't willing to go to the lengths that others have, how many people who pay tons of money for private healthcare are willing to cut costs in other areas of their lives? Sell the extra car, drive a piece of junk...live with a family member because it's way cheaper...Never go out to eat, NEVER go on vacation etc...It's all about choices. All some people see is the "help" us poor folks are getting and are jealous as you said. Well I am jealous that I don't have a nice car to drive but once again these are choices I've made and I can live with them without letting my jealousy get to the point where I think those people are bad or wrong or whatever.

 

Well, there are a lot of people working and driving crappy cars (mine is 13 years old) and paying tons and tons of money for private health insurance. I wouldn't assume that anyone who isn't on assistance doesn't know how to squeeze a buck. I've had to get quite good at it over the past few years. 
 

But by trying to keep us mad at each other, it's easier for the big corporations that run the country to do as they wish, most of the time. That's the real game here, IMO. 

 

And I love Bernie Sanders too. :D 

 

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:38 AM
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:38 AM
 
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Excellent post. :)
 

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I hate that the word "welfare" was used in the original title of the article.  It's been turned into a derogatory term that drudges up the stereotypical "welfare mom."  Chain smoking, booze drinking, sleeps all day, parties all night, kids run wild, etc.  This is about as far off as you can get from the reality of the situation. I realize though that the title is there to incite interest and get people's blood boiling, but it still irks me. 

 

What is "welfare" really?  Financial help from the government, right?  Lots of big business gets welfare then.  Look at how much these companies have paid in taxes according to Forbes magazine.  What about financial aid for college students like Pell Grants?  Is that not the same thing?  Is it considered socially acceptable because they are trying to do something to enrich their future?  Isn't raising a responsible child enriching the future of our country?  It's really all about perspective.  We are wiling to shell out money to GE and big oil, but our hard working mothers (and lets all agree it is a HARD job) get the shaft?  What is wrong with this picture?



 


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Old 05-27-2011, 12:53 PM
 
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Ultimately I think "welfare" (as TANF, food stamps, etc) is NOT the way to support families for many of the reasons stated above. Paid maternity/paternity leave, subsidized QUALITY childcare, health care for everyone, some sort of income tax deduction/credit for an at-home parent (since they'd be foregoing the paid leave & subsidized childcare & WORKING in a way that society just can figure how to recognize yet...), agricultural subsidies that work for small, organic farmers & help open up access to healthy food for all... these things would help bring dignity to families at all levels & with all sorts of different configurations & it would allow parents to make real choices about what is best for their families.

 

I really hate arguments about welfare based on who deserves what. Guess what? We ALL benefit from some sort of "welfare"... not TANF but other tax credits & subsidies that either put money in our pockets or help us keep more of our paycheck. And those who need the most "help" are the working poor -- they are numerous & typically don't qualify for the "handouts" but also don't generate enough income to qualify for many of the generous tax credits that round out our "welfare" tax policy. We are really failing these families with our current policies.


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Old 05-27-2011, 01:24 PM
 
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:26 PM
 
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"WAREHOUSED"??????????????  Are you friggin' serious?    Do you realize how disgusting and offensive such terminology is? 



I'm sorry that you are disgusted and offended. I realize that many people don't have a choice. I have been there. I had to put my 9 month old in daycare because I came home and found Grandma sound asleep while he was unrestrained in a bouncy seat that he was too big for in the first place, on top of a piece of furniture. I also discovered that she had been putting him in his booster seat that was meant for eating at the table, and sliding it from room to room to keep him stationary while she sewed, cleaned her house, etc. I felt at that point that daycare was the lesser evil. However that didn't change my feelings about it. However, I was a single parent. I had to work. there was no fall back system for me, so I put him in daycare, and he cried, and I cried, and that was just the way it was.

 

I have worked in MANY childcare settings, as an aide and later as a preschool teacher. I've worked in three states and in another country and I've done in home daycare. I am not saying that all daycare is evil, and certainly most daycare teachers care about the kids, but there is no possible way to meet all the kids' physical AND emotional needs and keep them challenged and engaged. You need supplies, materials, sufficient adult presence, creativity, patience, space, money...it's a long list, to do it right. And no matter how thoroughly you investigate the childcare facility, there is NO way to know all that goes on. They will tell you that they have a certain ratio. What they will never, ever tell you is that in order to maintain ratios, they shuffle kids from room to room all day. And it's always the youngest kids, the ones who can't talk. So while you are thinking your 2 year old is having a blast doing arts and crafts (and that's what his pre-filled-out "Today I Did...." sheet says) he actually spent naptime and most of his afternoon in the infant room, where they put him in an exersaucer so he wouldn't step on the babies. When an infant teacher wants to go to lunch, to keep ratio, 4 babies have to get shuffled around. The two oldest are going into the toddler room, where walking, hair-grabbing one year olds are all over them, while the little ones sit in carseats in the director's office. This happens all the time. I used to work at a Goddard School, where parents pay half their salary for quality infant care, and although it was the cleanest and safest daycare I've worked at, the kids were no happier. And the babies still were left to CIO no matter what the parent requested, and they still trash talked the parents and other staff behind their backs.

 

So yes, I consider it warehousing. I think part time daycare, a few hrs a week or whatever, can be beneficial for everyone, and I know that there are places where they care aout the kids. I don't think daycares are inhumanely cruel places of confinement or something. But when you have 4-15 kids to an adult, staying in basically one or two rooms all day with a little time in a fenced in, controlled outdoor environment, for 45-50 hours a week, which is what I was referring to, then yes, imo that is warehousing. I can't think of a single room in my house that would entertain my kids for 10 hrs a day. And I'm told we have a lot of fun stuff.....playdough, paints, art/craft supplies, puzzles, legos, etc. We'd go stir crazy!

 

Whenever I worked in childcare and it would get to be 4:45 or so, I'd start thinking "I'm really ready to get out of here now." And then I would think about the kids I was watching who still had another hour to go.

 

And again, I am NOT judging those who need to put their children in daycare. I have a friend who keeps her twin girls in daycare 50 hrs a week even though she only works 20, because she has serious mental health struggles, and she just cannot cope with them. She feels bad about it, and I encourage her NOT to, because that is what she, personally, has to do, to keep things going and maintain her sanity, and provide her kids with emotional stability. And there are many moms out there who *need* to work whether for financial reasons or sanity reasons, and I have been there, so my comment was not meant to insult those families. I'm just stating the honest fact that it's not ideal. The kind of daycare a mom will get when her other choice is welfare, is 9 times out of 10, going to be warehouse variety.  That's a fact.


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Old 05-27-2011, 09:09 PM
 
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I've not read through all the responses, but here is my two cents.

 

If I had any way to work and pay for daycare and still make a profit, I would. But as it stands, any job I qualify for I would end up paying out more in childcare than I would bring in. I would be paying to work. Tell me how that would be a good thing? Tell me how my family and I could survive on that?! I'd much rather see tax money go to a mother (or father for that matter) in a similiar position than have her work, make little to no profit and have so little time to be with her kids. And I would gladly pay out more in taxes if I actually saw that money come back to me rather than going into some CEO's pocket after a billion dollar bailout. He gets a bonus and I'm left in the dust on food stamps because our net income is $16 over...gross is $400 under but that $16 sure did make up for it (this was before DS1 was born). It really disgusts me how we treat our vulnerable (pregnant women, elderly and children) and poor.


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Old 05-28-2011, 12:54 AM
 
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  If a family needs help, lets help them!   

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:00 PM
 
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As someone who has been working at the same daycare for the last 2.5 years I can say that this account is 100% accurate, and exactly the reason I put in my 2 week notice yesterday. I tried and tried to get our owner/director to do the right things for our center, we did have an amazing infant room when a friend and I worked in there together, but she left cause of all the crud there and I got moved to kitchen duty. Now I get to do dishes while I hear the babies being made to scream themselves to sleep and listen to the *girls* that are "taking care" of them talking about how gross the breastmilk is that they have to reheat for the babies who are lucky enough to be b'fed. IT SUCKS and goes against everyything I believe in. I am getting far more welfare through childcare subsidies and foodstamps than it would take to let me stay home with my kids. Most of us don't ask for this life. I was married for 10 years and had 5 kids with my husband thinking we would be together ad I would be able to stay home with them. Thank goodness the help we do get is there...what I really really need is to be able to focus on school(working and going to school is near impossible for me, five kids, no sleep, etc I have no clue how people do it.) so that I can support hese 5 kids. Child support is not something I get to count on(which I think is a HUGE part of our "welfare" problems...these noncustodial parents are getting away with not caring for their kids, my X is ordered to pay about $500 a month...for *5* kids, I have friends whose Xs are ordered to pay $50 a month! It is crazy. Not to mention the fact that nothing happens to him when he just chooses to not pay when changing jobs and garnishment hasn't started yet). When we start placing value on the important things in life, our society will blossom. I just hope it happens in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post





I'm sorry that you are disgusted and offended. I realize that many people don't have a choice. I have been there. I had to put my 9 month old in daycare because I came home and found Grandma sound asleep while he was unrestrained in a bouncy seat that he was too big for in the first place, on top of a piece of furniture. I also discovered that she had been putting him in his booster seat that was meant for eating at the table, and sliding it from room to room to keep him stationary while she sewed, cleaned her house, etc. I felt at that point that daycare was the lesser evil. However that didn't change my feelings about it. However, I was a single parent. I had to work. there was no fall back system for me, so I put him in daycare, and he cried, and I cried, and that was just the way it was.

 

I have worked in MANY childcare settings, as an aide and later as a preschool teacher. I've worked in three states and in another country and I've done in home daycare. I am not saying that all daycare is evil, and certainly most daycare teachers care about the kids, but there is no possible way to meet all the kids' physical AND emotional needs and keep them challenged and engaged. You need supplies, materials, sufficient adult presence, creativity, patience, space, money...it's a long list, to do it right. And no matter how thoroughly you investigate the childcare facility, there is NO way to know all that goes on. They will tell you that they have a certain ratio. What they will never, ever tell you is that in order to maintain ratios, they shuffle kids from room to room all day. And it's always the youngest kids, the ones who can't talk. So while you are thinking your 2 year old is having a blast doing arts and crafts (and that's what his pre-filled-out "Today I Did...." sheet says) he actually spent naptime and most of his afternoon in the infant room, where they put him in an exersaucer so he wouldn't step on the babies. When an infant teacher wants to go to lunch, to keep ratio, 4 babies have to get shuffled around. The two oldest are going into the toddler room, where walking, hair-grabbing one year olds are all over them, while the little ones sit in carseats in the director's office. This happens all the time. I used to work at a Goddard School, where parents pay half their salary for quality infant care, and although it was the cleanest and safest daycare I've worked at, the kids were no happier. And the babies still were left to CIO no matter what the parent requested, and they still trash talked the parents and other staff behind their backs.

 

So yes, I consider it warehousing. I think part time daycare, a few hrs a week or whatever, can be beneficial for everyone, and I know that there are places where they care aout the kids. I don't think daycares are inhumanely cruel places of confinement or something. But when you have 4-15 kids to an adult, staying in basically one or two rooms all day with a little time in a fenced in, controlled outdoor environment, for 45-50 hours a week, which is what I was referring to, then yes, imo that is warehousing. I can't think of a single room in my house that would entertain my kids for 10 hrs a day. And I'm told we have a lot of fun stuff.....playdough, paints, art/craft supplies, puzzles, legos, etc. We'd go stir crazy!

 

Whenever I worked in childcare and it would get to be 4:45 or so, I'd start thinking "I'm really ready to get out of here now." And then I would think about the kids I was watching who still had another hour to go.

 

And again, I am NOT judging those who need to put their children in daycare. I have a friend who keeps her twin girls in daycare 50 hrs a week even though she only works 20, because she has serious mental health struggles, and she just cannot cope with them. She feels bad about it, and I encourage her NOT to, because that is what she, personally, has to do, to keep things going and maintain her sanity, and provide her kids with emotional stability. And there are many moms out there who *need* to work whether for financial reasons or sanity reasons, and I have been there, so my comment was not meant to insult those families. I'm just stating the honest fact that it's not ideal. The kind of daycare a mom will get when her other choice is welfare, is 9 times out of 10, going to be warehouse variety.  That's a fact.



 


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Old 05-29-2011, 07:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post
I have worked in MANY childcare settings, as an aide and later as a preschool teacher. I've worked in three states and in another country and I've done in home daycare. I am not saying that all daycare is evil, and certainly most daycare teachers care about the kids, but there is no possible way to meet all the kids' physical AND emotional needs and keep them challenged and engaged. You need supplies, materials, sufficient adult presence, creativity, patience, space, money...it's a long list, to do it right. And no matter how thoroughly you investigate the childcare facility, there is NO way to know all that goes on. They will tell you that they have a certain ratio. What they will never, ever tell you is that in order to maintain ratios, they shuffle kids from room to room all day. And it's always the youngest kids, the ones who can't talk. So while you are thinking your 2 year old is having a blast doing arts and crafts (and that's what his pre-filled-out "Today I Did...." sheet says) he actually spent naptime and most of his afternoon in the infant room, where they put him in an exersaucer so he wouldn't step on the babies. When an infant teacher wants to go to lunch, to keep ratio, 4 babies have to get shuffled around. The two oldest are going into the toddler room, where walking, hair-grabbing one year olds are all over them, while the little ones sit in carseats in the director's office. This happens all the time. I used to work at a Goddard School, where parents pay half their salary for quality infant care, and although it was the cleanest and safest daycare I've worked at, the kids were no happier. And the babies still were left to CIO no matter what the parent requested, and they still trash talked the parents and other staff behind their backs.

 

So yes, I consider it warehousing. I think part time daycare, a few hrs a week or whatever, can be beneficial for everyone, and I know that there are places where they care aout the kids. I don't think daycares are inhumanely cruel places of confinement or something. But when you have 4-15 kids to an adult, staying in basically one or two rooms all day with a little time in a fenced in, controlled outdoor environment, for 45-50 hours a week, which is what I was referring to, then yes, imo that is warehousing. I can't think of a single room in my house that would entertain my kids for 10 hrs a day. And I'm told we have a lot of fun stuff.....playdough, paints, art/craft supplies, puzzles, legos, etc. We'd go stir crazy!

 

I think you've worked in crap child care programs. I've worked with, and monitored programs that received child care subsidy dollars, and have rarely seen programs like the ones you've described. Yes, there are many out there but most are not. Some states have MUCH strjcter regulations than others which makes a difference but most programs aren't like that at all. Many programs have extra staff (often called floaters,) to cover ratios during breaks and when needed during the day. I've seen many directors cover breaks in the infant room since that's often the room that requires ratios to be maintained at all times. I've seen thousands of children playing from opening to closing and not getting bored. Classrooms are not like home.

 

Yes, there are many programs where children are warehoused and that I wouldn't take a dog to. But, that's not the majority and it's condescending to imply that that's the norm.
 

 

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Old 05-29-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post



I think you've worked in crap child care programs. I've worked with, and monitored programs that received child care subsidy dollars, and have rarely seen programs like the ones you've described. Yes, there are many out there but most are not. Some states have MUCH strjcter regulations than others which makes a difference but most programs aren't like that at all. Many programs have extra staff (often called floaters,) to cover ratios during breaks and when needed during the day. I've seen many directors cover breaks in the infant room since that's often the room that requires ratios to be maintained at all times. I've seen thousands of children playing from opening to closing and not getting bored. Classrooms are not like home.

 

Yes, there are many programs where children are warehoused and that I wouldn't take a dog to. But, that's not the majority and it's condescending to imply that that's the norm.
 

 


I'm going to agree with Polliwog.  My ds is in daycare about 40-45hours per week.  It's a wonderful program.  He is always in the same room (I've showed up to pick him at various times of the day and he's never anywhere else, unless its his classes turn to do "Kung Fu"), and his school has "floaters" who go from room to room when its the teachers break time, or who cover while the teacher is in the bathroom with one of the children. 

 

The children certainly aren't Warehoused during the day.

 

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Old 05-29-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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I think some childcare is warehousing and some isn't.  I have seen both - I bet most of us have.  

 

 

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Old 05-29-2011, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post



I think you've worked in crap child care programs. I've worked with, and monitored programs that received child care subsidy dollars, and have rarely seen programs like the ones you've described. Yes, there are many out there but most are not. Some states have MUCH strjcter regulations than others which makes a difference but most programs aren't like that at all. Many programs have extra staff (often called floaters,) to cover ratios during breaks and when needed during the day. I've seen many directors cover breaks in the infant room since that's often the room that requires ratios to be maintained at all times. I've seen thousands of children playing from opening to closing and not getting bored. Classrooms are not like home.

 

Yes, there are many programs where children are warehoused and that I wouldn't take a dog to. But, that's not the majority and it's condescending to imply that that's the norm.
 

 



No, actually I've worked at three centers that were NAEYC accredited...4 or 5 stars. Although they accepted government subsidy, the location and the price (because subsidy only covers a certain amount) meant that most of the children had fairly wealthy parents....doctors, investors, lawyers, etc.

 

I too have seen directors who pitch in where necessary, and  as a lead teacher I used to plan activities for those last two hours, to keep the kids entertained and get their minds off the kids who were already being picked up. I also worked with parents on potty training. But I have worked, as I mentioned, in THREE states, and in another country, and I can say that while there are good daycares out there they are the exception, not the norm. Perhaps you were lucky enough to see the good side of the child care industry. That's wonderful. But it is not condescending to state the truth which is that most parents who are using government subsidized childcare  as an alternative to welfare, which is who we are talking about in this thread, are going to end up with poor quality childcare for their kids. I'm not being condescending. I hate it. I think it's wrong. I think every mom should have te opportunity to stay home, but if she chooses not to, she should not have to feel bad about her child being in childcare, because it should be a delightful experience for the child. But this is not the way it is. I have been on the inside of at least 4 Kindercares in my city alone. I wouldn't take my child toany of them. Nor to the Goddard School, nor to Childtime or any Knowledge Learning Corp owned childcare facility. These are big names. Many people trust them because they have security systems on their doors, and a policy manual three inches thick, and bright sunny classrooms. They look nice, and they feed the kids, and they have nice outdoor equipment. I'm just saying that it is not all it's cracked up to be and I can almost guarantee that any daycare you find, I will be able to find a problem with it in two days. Or maybe I just have impossibly high standards. :shrug oh well.


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Old 05-29-2011, 12:00 PM
 
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Actually, in the work that I've done (in three states,) I've been in hundreds of child care centers at various points in the day (quite often announced.) A good percentage of programs that accept government subsidy are wonderful. Better than the average private pay family can afford. Not all, of course, or even most, but a big percentage. I've also been an NAEYC accreditation program validator. While the new accreditation program has it's drawbacks, it is MUCH harder for low-quality programs to become accredited, and maintain their accreditation status.

 

Some of the highest quality early childhood programs in the country are just for our nation's poorest children. My kids were lucky enough to qualify for, and attend, Early Head Start (for children ages 0-3) and Head Start (for children 3-5.) My kids qualified because they were in foster care and had significant risk factors. I never would have been able to afford those programs if I had to pay..

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Old 06-04-2011, 02:44 AM
 
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Just to answer the OP...

 

My mom got foodstamps and probably some sorts of other welfare, to stay home with me and my brother until I was 4 and my brother was 2.  At that point her good friend who ran a Montessori school would let us in (she didn't normally let 2 year olds in, as she didn't run a daycare, but my brother has always been brilliant and ahead of everyone, and it wasn't daycare for him, but school, even at that age), and let my mom clean the school for partial tuition, so my mom went back to work. 

 

I am eternally grateful that she got to spend that time with us, and that we got to spend that time with her.  I think that it allowed us all to be a lot more normal than we otherwise would have been, as our home life was absolutely out of control otherwise, thanks to my father. 

 

My mom was horribly embarrassed countless times for using foodstamps, and actually never set foot in a certain Safeway again thanks to how the cashiers treated her (it's possible she never set foot in ANY Safeway again), but she did it because she felt it was just that important, to be with us.

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Old 06-04-2011, 11:43 AM
 
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But EHS and HS are not for profit agencies. THere is a huge difference. The EHS program here (to use as a daycare, HS is preschool and is free) costs money. DSHS will pay if you are working, but if you are going to school for longer than a year or notin a technical program they don't help with childcare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

Actually, in the work that I've done (in three states,) I've been in hundreds of child care centers at various points in the day (quite often announced.) A good percentage of programs that accept government subsidy are wonderful. Better than the average private pay family can afford. Not all, of course, or even most, but a big percentage. I've also been an NAEYC accreditation program validator. While the new accreditation program has it's drawbacks, it is MUCH harder for low-quality programs to become accredited, and maintain their accreditation status.

 

Some of the highest quality early childhood programs in the country are just for our nation's poorest children. My kids were lucky enough to qualify for, and attend, Early Head Start (for children ages 0-3) and Head Start (for children 3-5.) My kids qualified because they were in foster care and had significant risk factors. I never would have been able to afford those programs if I had to pay..



 


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Old 06-04-2011, 11:49 AM
 
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can we next start a poll about the inverse proportion between IQ and use of the term "welfare mom?" 


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