Too skimpy clothes? Or others should not look? Paranoia? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 09:03 AM
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I'm biased against this topic anyway because while I could care less what others wear DH and I are in agreement that DD won't be owning a 2 piece bathing suit until she can buy one with her own money. She just turned 2 and got a 2 piece from my step MIL...I was so pissed. I have made it pretty clear to my family in general how I feel about my DD wearing 2 pieces as a toddler...More than just the fact that I (personally) think it looks weird/bad on babies/toddlers but I prefer DD to actually wear something that covers her skin and protects her from the sun. We are a rash guard on toddlers kinda family.

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#32 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And for the record, I really do love my nieces and my sister. Our other sister tried to talk to this sister about how her daughters are dressing, but younger sister just said older sister doesn't get it because she has no children. I am very concerned about what is going to happen in the long run with my nieces. Also, I do not think someone who acts this way can be that happy with herself. There is a lot more my sister does that I have not posted about that indicates she is not very happy with herself. I wish wish wish I could "fix" this, but I know we cannot just "fix" other's problems. I wish these problems were not being projected on to my nieces too.

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#33 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post



 

How should a person who works on a corner (or dresses like one) be treated?  I don't want my daughter dressing in skimpy clothing, but I'm not liking the attitude that if she does, it's ok to treat her a certain way.  I have a friend who dresses in clothes that I find too revealing for my taste, but she deserves every bit of respect as anyone else.  

 

This isn't as much in response to the post about the swimming pool incident (poor guy!), but just looking at our attitudes in general that some people deserve maltreatment based on whatever we think justifies it.

 


Well....IMO, someone who works the corner is offering herself up as an object to be used. Is it surprising that society then objectifies these women? Gawking at someone is now "maltreatment"? Really?

 

On a side note, people who wear revealing clothing do not bother me. People who wear revealing clothing and then complain that people are looking at them DO bother me. Why are you showing most of your chest if you don't want people to look at it? Why do your shorts begin an inch above your pubic hair and not cover your cheeks if you don't want people to look?

 

I think people need to examine what they are trying to say about themselves when they get dressed. If your goal is to look sexy, then you can hardly become upset when you attract attention.

 

And if you are dining out with your D-cups pushed up and all your cleavage showing, believe me....it's not an accident that all the waitstaff is walking by your table. Depending upon their sexual orientation, they are either checking you out or laughing at you in the kitchen.

 

 

 

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#34 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 09:31 AM
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it's like the woman who wears the low cut tank top with the word BITCH splashed across the chest in glitter, getting really offended at people looking at her...give me a break, you wore that shirt specifically so people would stare at you.

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#35 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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Well....IMO, someone who works the corner is offering herself up as an object to be used. Is it surprising that society then objectifies these women? Gawking at someone is now "maltreatment"? Really?

 

On a side note, people who wear revealing clothing do not bother me. People who wear revealing clothing and then complain that people are looking at them DO bother me. Why are you showing most of your chest if you don't want people to look at it? Why do your shorts begin an inch above your pubic hair and not cover your cheeks if you don't want people to look?

 

I think people need to examine what they are trying to say about themselves when they get dressed. If your goal is to look sexy, then you can hardly become upset when you attract attention.

 

And if you are dining out with your D-cups pushed up and all your cleavage showing, believe me....it's not an accident that all the waitstaff is walking by your table. Depending upon their sexual orientation, they are either checking you out or laughing at you in the kitchen.

 

 

 

I wasn't thinking of gawking, actually, but your post does bring up some questions for me.  How much gawking is acceptable? What is the point of gawking? At what point does gawking=maltreatment.   Does it matter how the person being gawked at feels about it?  How does gender play into this?  Is it different depending on the age of a woman 15? 25? 40? 6? Does her financial status play into whether it's ok to gawk at her.  How about cat calls?  What about other attractive parts of us that are considered erotic by some?  Neck nape?  Hair?  Inside of elbows?  How much leg, arms or chest is ok?  How is this idea played out in countries where women are expected to cover? 

 

Also, what if the woman wants the attention, judgement, cat calls, etc?  Does that make it ok, even then? If someone wants to be treated badly, does that make it ok to treat them badly? 

 

IMO, noticing someone isn't the same as gawking at them.  Gawking is meant to make someone feel judged, objectified, disrespected, odd.  Catching someone's eye is not the same as catching someone's eye and then having them stare at you for an uncomfortable amount of time.  I saw a woman yesterday who was dressed and positioned in a way that made me wonder if she was prostitute. I don't think it would be ok for me to gawk at her or otherwise treat her in any other disrespectful way.  I might not want to strike up a conversation with her, but that's my own boundary. 

 

I'm not sure why some of the responses on this thread make me feel like this is as much of a feminist issue as anything else.  The girl's situation is real that she needs a good role model and may be having some difficulty in her life that makes it hard for her to know how to present herself.  There's no question about that, but the underlying attitude?  Maybe someone else can put into better words than I can.
 

 


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#36 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:13 AM
 
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I think this is the same ole "woman dresses in skimpy clothes and gets raped and then society blames her for the rape because of the way she was dressed" argument all over again, isn't it?

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#37 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:22 AM
 
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I think this is the same ole "woman dresses in skimpy clothes and gets raped and then society blames her for the rape because of the way she was dressed" argument all over again, isn't it?


Kind of, but rape is less subtle.  I'm thinking of more subtle acts. Acts that most people think are ok at first glance.

 


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#38 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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Does your niece feel comfortable in this clothing or would she like a bathing suit she didn't have to adjust all the time? Did she choose it or did her mother?

 

If she chose it and her mother approved, then really nothing you say will help. If your sister chose it for  your niece, then you can perhaps ask your niece if she'd like a swimsuit that would allow her to horse around without worrying. You can suggest a bikini with a strap over the neck or shoulders. You can mention to your sister that you noticed your niece wasn't able to have as much fun because she had to worry about her suit as much, 'and you know, if she's worrying about her suit, she's not going to be doing the social interaction she needs at this age..'.

 

 I won't buy a suit for my daughter that makes her visibly uncomfortable, but I can't really control what others buy for their kids. If my daughter were to suggest a suit like that, I'd take her through the steps of "what do you think is going to happen when you jump into the pool?" If she wanted to spend her money on it? I dunno.

 

Aside from that, I feel sorry for the grandpa, and sorry for your niece.


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#39 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post

I'm biased against this topic anyway because while I could care less what others wear DH and I are in agreement that DD won't be owning a 2 piece bathing suit until she can buy one with her own money. She just turned 2 and got a 2 piece from my step MIL...I was so pissed. I have made it pretty clear to my family in general how I feel about my DD wearing 2 pieces as a toddler...More than just the fact that I (personally) think it looks weird/bad on babies/toddlers but I prefer DD to actually wear something that covers her skin and protects her from the sun. We are a rash guard on toddlers kinda family.


My 10 year old picked this one out:

 

http://www.childrensplace.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10001_-1_672850_137020_27151%7C133141_girl%7Cswimwear_girl

 

(it is about as skimpy as I'll allow--some showing of the belly--maybe 1 1/2 inches.  She will wear a cover-up when not in the water.)

 

This is something like I want to get for my 2 year old:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=537149&parentCategoryId=85179&categoryId=117679 and http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=537154&parentCategoryId=85179&categoryId=117679

 

Two pieces, how we generally think of two-pieces (itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka-dot bikini, anyone?) are inappropriate for tots and small children.  But, ones that happen to be two-piece, but cover as much or more than a one-piece (and there are plenty of those that we'd probably consider inappropriate--plunging necklines, high-cut thighs, strappy--all on the same suit), IMO are fine.
 

 

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#40 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
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My 10 year old picked this one out:

 

http://www.childrensplace.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10001_-1_672850_137020_27151%7C133141_girl%7Cswimwear_girl

 

(it is about as skimpy as I'll allow--some showing of the belly--maybe 1 1/2 inches.  She will wear a cover-up when not in the water.)

 

This is something like I want to get for my 2 year old:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=537149&parentCategoryId=85179&categoryId=117679 and http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=537154&parentCategoryId=85179&categoryId=117679

 

Two pieces, how we generally think of two-pieces (itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka-dot bikini, anyone?) are inappropriate for tots and small children.  But, ones that happen to be two-piece, but cover as much or more than a one-piece (and there are plenty of those that we'd probably consider inappropriate--plunging necklines, high-cut thighs, strappy--all on the same suit), IMO are fine.
 

 



yeah I should specify bikinis is what I mean by 2 pieces

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#41 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:49 AM
 
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Oh those are cute. Yeah when I say 2 piece I mean bikini not tankini. I bought DD a tankini and a one piece. I will take the tankini over a one piece any day. So much easier to deal with changes..lol But I myself wear a tankini and not one pieces. 

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#42 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 11:51 AM
 
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OP, it seems kind of bizarre that you'd still associate with a woman who excludes your daughter from her daughter's parties, and even directly tells your daughter that she'll never have a boyfriend or get married. This is so not a cool way to treat your daughter.

 

I recall how hurt I was when my mom continued her friendship with another mom who couldn't stand me. Her son was a year older than me and used to call me mean names, pretty much relentlessly, and make fun of my appearance. He lived next door to one of my friends, which was also a very short distance from my own house, One day an older girl told me about a really mean taunt I could use on him. I tried it the next time he tried to pick on me, and he literally burst out crying in front of his friends and ran in to his mom, who came out and screamed at me.

 

She also said hateful things about me to my mom, and my mom agreed with me that she was being unreasonable, but my mom kept on having lunch with this woman because she felt sorry for her because of all her mental problems and the fact that she was raising her son alone.

 

I realize that my mom just felt like I should realize that I was better than these people and feel sorry for them, but all I could see was that it really didn't matter to her that this woman didn't like me or that her son was picking on me.

 

I kind of wonder if that's how you see your sister and neice's treatment of your dd -- if you feel  like your dd is better off not "fitting in" with them anyway (I don't disagree with you there!). While I'll admit that I'd rather not have my dd hanging out with people like that -- and I'm talking more about your sister's mentality than however her daughter dresses -- I also wouldn't have someone like that in our lives. 

 

I think that, from your vanatage point as a mother, their treatment of your daughter should be the main issue, not the daughter's idiotic harassment of other people who are unfortunate enough to be trying to enjoy a fun family outing anywhere in her vicinity.

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#43 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 12:05 PM
 
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It sounds like your sister is trying to be your niece's friend instead of her mother. Being blessed to be almost 40, I feel for your niece, because she has a long road ahead of her. Why, since the great invention of Facebook and now us old people are on it, you see how others have turned out. So being last year was the hs reunion, everyone spent time catching up or finding each other on Facebook. Those girls who behaved and were allowed to behave like your niece turned out not so good. One is even doing to her own daughter what your sister is. She also complains to whomever will listen how she has no control over her blah blah blah. My best friend and I LOL'd because that is exactly how she behaved when she was her daughter's age! I might add the complainer who was a major brat all of jr high and HS, is on her 3rd husband at age 39. That crowd of girls all have 2 and 3 marriages, kids when they were 17-20 and the father is no where fast, also their quality of life is not the one they were raised in. They also wear very worried at that age of being popular, wearing the slutty outfits (a word from our time) and of course getting a boyfriend and based on what I just wrote, know what THAT got them. So yes, as I am approaching that time of having a teen sooner than later, yes I am going to be the mean parent who says no. I would rather have a pissed off teen, than a pregnt one or worse, a deceased one.  

 

I dont know your sister's history, but is she trying to relive her youth thru her daughter?

 

Also, regarding 2 piece bathing suits. Had a similar issue this week with my 9 yr old. I know a pp said how she didnt want her dd wearing any 2 piece anything. Of course your dd is not old enough to articulate going to the bathroom while at the pool LOL. Both my daughters like having the 2 piece mainly because, its easier to manuaver in the bathrooms. But at the public pool near our house, I have seen anything and everything for the 2 piece bathing suits. Several moms wear the 2 pieces that cover everything, but are more comfortable. Also, several moms wear bikinis. Most look wonderful in them but there are a few that need to leave the bikini at home. There are also 12-14 yr old girls in the suits the OP described and again, some look fine but others, need to invest in a good 1 piece, the bikini is not happening for the big girls.

 

My daughter this year wanted to get a few 2 pieces, mainly for the bathroom but also to be fashionable. We went to the local dept store. She found a few 2 piece as she refered to them, I call bikinis. I also picked out a few that were 2 pieces. I let her try on the bikinis and yes they looked adorable (had a bra type top but also ruffle and a small bottom) but I told her she had to be older to wear these type suits. She then tried on my picks and they looked again adorable but more athletic looking. I pointed out they would be easier to swim in, work better on the slides etc. So we got them and she wore on the next day. Her best friend saw the one suit- had a boy type short and a halter type top and said- 'wow you're so lucky! My mom said I had to be 13 first!'

 

When I told the story to DH, he thinks dd knew all along the bikini was out of the question but played along in order to get the 2 piece style suits. Sort of give out an inital offer and work your way back and forth. I would not put that idea past her.

 


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#44 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I never thought it might bother my daughter for us to continue to see them and such. I will talk to my daughter about it. We talk about a lot and I do stand up for her when they start in on her. We don't see a ton of them. But thanks for bringing up this point. They don't call my daughter names or anything. They tell her that her clothes are too frumpy and that she needs to wear this or that or she will never have a boyfriend, and she NEEDS a boyfriend and things like that. The stuff about my daughter's swimsuit, and so on. It is not like it goes on the whole time or every time. Today, we saw them for maybe 30 minutes and not a thing was said about it. In fact, they talked about summer plans with no one throwing insults.
 

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OP, it seems kind of bizarre that you'd still associate with a woman who excludes your daughter from her daughter's parties, and even directly tells your daughter that she'll never have a boyfriend or get married. This is so not a cool way to treat your daughter.

 

I recall how hurt I was when my mom continued her friendship with another mom who couldn't stand me. Her son was a year older than me and used to call me mean names, pretty much relentlessly, and make fun of my appearance. He lived next door to one of my friends, which was also a very short distance from my own house, One day an older girl told me about a really mean taunt I could use on him. I tried it the next time he tried to pick on me, and he literally burst out crying in front of his friends and ran in to his mom, who came out and screamed at me.

 

She also said hateful things about me to my mom, and my mom agreed with me that she was being unreasonable, but my mom kept on having lunch with this woman because she felt sorry for her because of all her mental problems and the fact that she was raising her son alone.

 

I realize that my mom just felt like I should realize that I was better than these people and feel sorry for them, but all I could see was that it really didn't matter to her that this woman didn't like me or that her son was picking on me.

 

I kind of wonder if that's how you see your sister and neice's treatment of your dd -- if you feel  like your dd is better off not "fitting in" with them anyway (I don't disagree with you there!). While I'll admit that I'd rather not have my dd hanging out with people like that -- and I'm talking more about your sister's mentality than however her daughter dresses -- I also wouldn't have someone like that in our lives. 

 

I think that, from your vanatage point as a mother, their treatment of your daughter should be the main issue, not the daughter's idiotic harassment of other people who are unfortunate enough to be trying to enjoy a fun family outing anywhere in her vicinity.



 

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#45 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is how all her friends are. They had babies young, as in 14 or so. They have generally been married multiple times. My sister said she is one of the only people of her friends who did not have a baby before 16 and who has not been married multiple times. Our mother was a rotten mother who only kept custody of us sometimes. Toward the end there (and I am older) my sister ended up living with my mother while I lived elsewhere and then when I went to college. My mother did not parent her and bought her everything and gave her everything. She felt that being popular was very important and often expressed that she hated how I was, in that I was an honor roll student, didn't have tons of friends, did volunteer work, etc. She liked that my sister was on drill team. (I would have loved to have been a cheer leader, but I was never that coordinated and always quite shy, I tried out once and did not make it). She loved that my sister had friends that she was always gone hanging out with while I had friends that liked being in the library instead. That revolted our mother and she made it clear what she found acceptable and what not. I was not acceptable. I think my sister was really affected by this because I think she learned early on that it is not OK to be smart and calm and less popular. I was not a hated child, I did have friends. It is just my friends were more likely to be on the math club than spend the night out surfing in cars with no one knowing where we were. My sister is younger than me and saw what I went through so I suspect she learned early on what is acceptable and what is not.
 

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It sounds like your sister is trying to be your niece's friend instead of her mother. Being blessed to be almost 40, I feel for your niece, because she has a long road ahead of her. Why, since the great invention of Facebook and now us old people are on it, you see how others have turned out. So being last year was the hs reunion, everyone spent time catching up or finding each other on Facebook. Those girls who behaved and were allowed to behave like your niece turned out not so good. One is even doing to her own daughter what your sister is. She also complains to whomever will listen how she has no control over her blah blah blah. My best friend and I LOL'd because that is exactly how she behaved when she was her daughter's age! I might add the complainer who was a major brat all of jr high and HS, is on her 3rd husband at age 39. That crowd of girls all have 2 and 3 marriages, kids when they were 17-20 and the father is no where fast, also their quality of life is not the one they were raised in. They also wear very worried at that age of being popular, wearing the slutty outfits (a word from our time) and of course getting a boyfriend and based on what I just wrote, know what THAT got them. So yes, as I am approaching that time of having a teen sooner than later, yes I am going to be the mean parent who says no. I would rather have a pissed off teen, than a pregnt one or worse, a deceased one.  

 

I dont know your sister's history, but is she trying to relive her youth thru her daughter?

 

Also, regarding 2 piece bathing suits. Had a similar issue this week with my 9 yr old. I know a pp said how she didnt want her dd wearing any 2 piece anything. Of course your dd is not old enough to articulate going to the bathroom while at the pool LOL. Both my daughters like having the 2 piece mainly because, its easier to manuaver in the bathrooms. But at the public pool near our house, I have seen anything and everything for the 2 piece bathing suits. Several moms wear the 2 pieces that cover everything, but are more comfortable. Also, several moms wear bikinis. Most look wonderful in them but there are a few that need to leave the bikini at home. There are also 12-14 yr old girls in the suits the OP described and again, some look fine but others, need to invest in a good 1 piece, the bikini is not happening for the big girls.

 

My daughter this year wanted to get a few 2 pieces, mainly for the bathroom but also to be fashionable. We went to the local dept store. She found a few 2 piece as she refered to them, I call bikinis. I also picked out a few that were 2 pieces. I let her try on the bikinis and yes they looked adorable (had a bra type top but also ruffle and a small bottom) but I told her she had to be older to wear these type suits. She then tried on my picks and they looked again adorable but more athletic looking. I pointed out they would be easier to swim in, work better on the slides etc. So we got them and she wore on the next day. Her best friend saw the one suit- had a boy type short and a halter type top and said- 'wow you're so lucky! My mom said I had to be 13 first!'

 

When I told the story to DH, he thinks dd knew all along the bikini was out of the question but played along in order to get the 2 piece style suits. Sort of give out an inital offer and work your way back and forth. I would not put that idea past her.

 



 

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#46 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 01:18 PM
 
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I'm not sure why some of the responses on this thread make me feel like this is as much of a feminist issue as anything else.  The girl's situation is real that she needs a good role model and may be having some difficulty in her life that makes it hard for her to know how to present herself.  There's no question about that, but the underlying attitude?  Maybe someone else can put into better words than I can.
 


I think you are really right about this.  Unfortunately, there are lots of underlying attitudes held by the general public that aren't ideal.  But that is the world we live in, and since it is, I think it is important that our kids know that they are going to receive negative attention for dresssing certain ways.  Assumptions will be made, right or wrong, and kids needs to understand that so they can make good choices.  This girl is young, and she isn't obviously secure about her swimsuit choice or she wouldn't have suspected this poor grandpa of trying to perp on her.   

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#47 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 01:27 PM
 
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i don't think I'm judging her particularly harshly to say she is full of herself...Does being 14 somehow exempt one from being full of themselves...Misguided yes, but still full of herself..The OP confirms that yes the girl is full of herself...I'm not going to sit and pretend that it's not how she is behaving with the OP confirms it because you personally think it is too harsh....14 is NOT a child...Not an adult but not a child...

I do feel bad for this girl because she is clearly not getting any guidance from her mother that is helpful but that doesn't exempt the girl from being full of herself, it's not like I think she is a bad person but I'll call a spade a spade when I see one and not try to tap dance around thinking of the most "gentle" way to say what my point actually is.

 

If it was my niece I'd be feeling really bad for her but I'd also probably tell her she was full of herself...Then I'd ask niece if she'd like me to buy her a properly fitting bathing suit and Mom can have a cow about it or niece can hide it and wear it when mom isn't around so she is at least comfortable, although if niece thinks she is hot stuff maybe she likes wearing something to small who knows....I know all that is incredibly MDC incorrect though.


Why?  Someone who has to tell a 14 year old that she is "full of herself" has a lot of growing up to do themselves.  What would the point be?  It is just a nasty thing to say.  Pretty much every fourteen year old on the planet seems to think that all eyes are on him/her.  Its developmental.  Regardless of what OP says, and I know she is the aunt, I think OP and others are misinterpreting that this kid is so "full of herself." It sounds like she has a really poor self esteem and that she thinks her value is entirely tied to her popularity, appearance, and getting attention through dressing like a skank.  She's purposely objectifying herself and probably thinks that is where her value lies.  And even worse, she has nobody to guide or coach her since it sounds like her mom is the main person perpetuating all of this. 

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#48 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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I agree, the full of themselves has nothing to do with nothing, its the age. I would not engage it if I came upon a 14 yr old. But OTH, OP thanks for the response, I feel bad for your sister and your niece that she was raised that the only way is being popular etc. Sadly she will have those boyfriends and attract some wanted attention that will be bad. And she will look for love in these means. Yuck.


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They tell her that her clothes are too frumpy and that she needs to wear this or that or she will never have a boyfriend, and she NEEDS a boyfriend and things like that.

Bah. I'm frumpy, and I got a husband. :p

 

OP, I feel for your niece - that sounds like a very warped environment to grow up in. It does sound like she's well aware of the effect a skimpy bathing suit can have on boys, though - as in, it sounds like that was her motive in wearing it, not just random self-expression (judging by her comments to your daughter). So perhaps someone ought to remind her that it's not only young, single, hot, eligible boys with their own cars who will notice her body. She will also be noticed by unpopular boys, ugly boys, geeky boys, creepy boys, and men who are much much older than boys. It's up to her what she chooses to do with that information, but she should realise that you can't attract sexual attention that selectively. You know? I mean, obviously a man old enough to be her grandfather checking her out (if indeed he was) is creepy; but I've noticed an attitude among certain girls that "You don't have the right to look at me if you're fat/unpopular/not my type", and it's possible your niece has that attitude too. In which case, a reality check might be in order. A, she won't just be noticed by "desirable" people; and B, their lack of desirability doesn't automatically make them creepy (at least, no more creepy than the desirable guys who are ogling her!).

 

And yes, "Don't wear things in public that you'd be ashamed to have show up in the background of someone else's photo" is generally sound advice...


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#50 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 02:42 PM
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Pretty much every fourteen year old on the planet seems to think that all eyes are on him/her.  Its developmental. 


Is this a girl thing? Or a school thing? My kids never went through that stage.

 

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#51 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 02:53 PM
 
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I never thought it might bother my daughter for us to continue to see them and such. I will talk to my daughter about it. We talk about a lot and I do stand up for her when they start in on her. We don't see a ton of them. But thanks for bringing up this point. They don't call my daughter names or anything. They tell her that her clothes are too frumpy and that she needs to wear this or that or she will never have a boyfriend, and she NEEDS a boyfriend and things like that. The stuff about my daughter's swimsuit, and so on. It is not like it goes on the whole time or every time. Today, we saw them for maybe 30 minutes and not a thing was said about it. In fact, they talked about summer plans with no one throwing insults.
 



 



I'm sure that you know your daughter better than I do and I know you'll make a good decision! I obviously don't know these people, but from what I'm reading here, I honestly don't see any way in which this relationship could be beneficial to you or your dd. At the same time, it sounds like it could be very beneficial to your niece to have at least one sane person in her life!

 

I agree with the poster who suggests that you take your niece aside and ask her if she might like a bathing suit that enables her to have fun in the water and not always have to worry about something getting inadvertently exposed and being memorialized in the background of someone's photo. If you can afford it and you know about what her size is, you might even buy her something that's very pretty, flattering, and reasonably modest, just so she'll have that option when she doesn't feel like constantly having to check and adjust a few tiny inches of fabric.

 

This is certainly no more disrespectful of your sister's values than her dire warnings to your daughter, about some looming life of old maidliness if she doesn't start exposing herself to all and sundry, are of your values.

 

Yeah, I agree with the posters who say that all women are human beings deserving of respect regardless of how they dress or conduct themselves sexually. That said, I don't like the idea of a young girl being pressured to put her body out there like that.

 

And, from what you've said, it sounds like your mom never respected your personhood or your sister's personhood, and, while you managed to get enough distance from her to develop a healthy sense of self-respect, your sister has just absorbed your mom's viewpoint.

 

She doesn't seem, at this time, to have the capacity to even realize that people are unique individuals and not shapeless masses of meat that can be shoved into a mould and baked by pressure and threats until they are set to live out her dreams (that were baked into her by her own mom) for life.


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#52 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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OP wrote:

 

"...older niece does not invite my daughter, who is 7 months older, to her things, like birthday parties. Niece actually originally would invite my daughter and my sister would tell me privately not to bring her because she wants her daughter to be a cheerleader and "this is too important" and my daughter does not fit in."

 

There is SO much ore going on here than bathing suit choices. Your sister is making incredibly unhealthy choices in her parenting. I'm no fan of breaking off family relationships unless it's 100% necessary, but certainly, you need to convey to your own kids that Auntie X's priorities are screwed up.

 


Another poster wrote:

 

"IMO, someone who works the corner is offering herself up as an object to be used. Is it surprising that society then objectifies these women? Gawking at someone is now "maltreatment"? Really?"

 

Encountering a hooker (or somebody dressed like a hooker) doesn't mean you should act like a john. The rules of social engagement don't change based on what other people are wearing. When in doubt, treat a stranger the want you'd want your mother/father/son/daughter to be treated, and you'll never go wrong. 

 

 

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#53 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 03:06 PM
 
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Is this a girl thing? Or a school thing? My kids never went through that stage.

 



I think it may be a girl thing. When I was young teen back in the late 70's, my friends and I used to get all excited imagining that cars were following us when we were out walking places. It honestly never occurred to us to talk to the police about it. It just gave us a thrill to quickly turn a corner and follow a weird route, in an attempt to evade the criminal, and we were so excited if we saw the same car, or what looked like the same car, pass by a moment later. And a little disappointed if the "stalker" was too easy to "shake."

 

That's about as far as we got with this game back in the 70's. The modern games seem to get a little more graphic. We recently went to the park one day when there were a few teen or preteen girls and no one else, and they kind of acted self conscious as we approached. As we were walking up, I'd heard one of them say something like, "Okay, now it's my turn to be the rapist"...but then they saw us and didn't seem comfortable continuing, which was probably just as well.

 

Ah, to be young again, and feel like other people actually care what I look like and what I'm wearing...

 

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I didn't read all the other responses, but I think this is not about your neices bikini. Just as you quote, your sister wants to draw attention to her kids. Her kids were not near this guys camera and it would not matter what they were wearing. She is looking for attention. Bringing up her kid's clothing choices with her, would probably just fuel the need for attention. Hopefully she is embarassed at falsely accusing this guy who did nothing wrong. Maybe she will step her family a little out of the self made limelight.

 

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But, I know how my sister is, no point in saying anything, my sister bought it for her and thinks it is great. My sister is very very focused on her girls being popular and is willing to do what it takes to get them popular.

 



 

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#55 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 04:11 PM
 
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LOL, I just got an off-the-wall idea. If you do find out that your niece actually would occasionally like to just be comfortable and not so near-naked, but she's scared of getting slammed by her mom for withholding her stuff from the eyes of the world, you could occasionally slip her some contraband comfy clothes. She could leave the house wearing next to nothing to please her mom, and then stop at the nearest bathroom and pull the contraband clothes out of her bag.

 

Of course, there's always the risk that some grandparents will be out on the town with their grandkids, and her modestly-clothed image could inadvertently end up in the background of one of the photos on their facebook page. Is your sister the sort to make new (elderly) fb friends and take an interest in grandparently fb photos? Do you think it's worth the risk?

 

I think she'll survive the wretched shock and sense of betrayal, if your niece is actually brave enough to rebel.


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#56 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 04:45 PM
 
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Is this a girl thing? Or a school thing? My kids never went through that stage.

 



It is a teenage thing.  Developmentally kids that age tend to think people are way more aware of/interested in their zit, clothes, hair, whatever than they are. 

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#57 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 04:50 PM
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Why?  Someone who has to tell a 14 year old that she is "full of herself" has a lot of growing up to do themselves.  What would the point be?  It is just a nasty thing to say.  Pretty much every fourteen year old on the planet seems to think that all eyes are on him/her.  Its developmental.  Regardless of what OP says, and I know she is the aunt, I think OP and others are misinterpreting that this kid is so "full of herself." It sounds like she has a really poor self esteem and that she thinks her value is entirely tied to her popularity, appearance, and getting attention through dressing like a skank.  She's purposely objectifying herself and probably thinks that is where her value lies.  And even worse, she has nobody to guide or coach her since it sounds like her mom is the main person perpetuating all of this. 


so now it's not gentle/ap enough to say to a TEENAGER to stop acting so full of themselves? Please, if my kid is being a brat/ass and is acting full of themself they are going to be told they are. It's one thing to be full of yourself and have it not affect anyone else. It is quite another to have an old man accosted by police because you are full of yourself. 

I do agree with most of what you are saying and to this particular girl I wouldn't say such a thing because she does have a lot of other issues going on but if my teenage kid is being an ass or is acting full of themself I'm going to say that to them. "Hey kid, I love you, you are being an ass/full of yourself"...A teen is not a 5 year old. I am not going to mince my every word and be terrified of shattering my kid's precious ego. Sometimes teens are asses and most of the time they are full of themselves...Thank you for calling me immature though because I wouldn't tiptoe around my kids crappy behavior.eyesroll.gif

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#58 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 04:54 PM
 
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I think of myself as pretty far gentle on the spectrum here, and I've told my 9-year-old that everything isn't about her, which is really the same sentiment. It's an important part of maturity to learn that everything isn't about you, and kids need to hear it from somewhere. I don't think "Get over yourself" is such a harsh thing to say, particularly depending on tone. And this girl needs to hear it in some way. She doesn't get to decide whether other people bring cameras to the pool. She should get to decide how she's dressed, within reasonable limits.
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#59 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 04:56 PM
 
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so now it's not gentle/ap enough to say to a TEENAGER to stop acting so full of themselves? Please, if my kid is being a brat/ass and is acting full of themself they are going to be told they are. It's one thing to be full of yourself and have it not affect anyone else. It is quite another to have an old man accosted by police because you are full of yourself. 

I do agree with most of what you are saying and to this particular girl I wouldn't say such a thing because she does have a lot of other issues going on but if my teenage kid is being an ass or is acting full of themself I'm going to say that to them. "Hey kid, I love you, you are being an ass/full of yourself"...A teen is not a 5 year old. I am not going to mince my every word and be terrified of shattering my kid's precious ego. Sometimes teens are asses and most of the time they are full of themselves...Thank you for calling me immature though because I wouldn't tiptoe around my kids crappy behavior.eyesroll.gif

You're missing the point.  What does saying "you're a brat/ass/full of yourself" accomplish exactly?  It has nothing to do with being gentle or AP.  It is just a ridiculous and pointless thing for an adult to say to a teenager.  Consider the root causes of her behavior and address those instead of namecalling.  She is behaving that way for a reason.  Address that and the rest will follow. 

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#60 of 140 Old 06-10-2011, 05:05 PM
 
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I think of myself as pretty far gentle on the spectrum here, and I've told my 9-year-old that everything isn't about her, which is really the same sentiment. It's an important part of maturity to learn that everything isn't about you, and kids need to hear it from somewhere. I don't think "Get over yourself" is such a harsh thing to say, particularly depending on tone. And this girl needs to hear it in some way. She doesn't get to decide whether other people bring cameras to the pool. She should get to decide how she's dressed, within reasonable limits.


No.  She doesn't need to hear "get over yourself."  She needs to hear "You know, there are so many wonderful qualities you have.  You are ___, ____, and ____.  You don't have to be popular, dress like a skank, or date the quarterback to have worth as a person.  We love you as you are." 

 

These posts about telling a teenager to get over herself/stop being so full of herself are so silly and harsh, considering this kid's upbringing.  Have some compassion.  Her behavior is a result of feeling and understanding that her worth as a person is tied to a whole bunch of superficial crap.  Help her change her feelings about herself and she'll probably seem a lot less full of herself.  She sounds like a kid who is really hurting.  Developmentally it isn't at all atypical for her to think people are interested or concerned with something that is important to her.  Yeah, it is a bummer and I feel bad for this poor grandpa if he wasn't being a creep, but what has to go on in someone's mind for them to think that?  Do you really think telling someone to get over themself is going to change the idea that she thinks this guy was trying to perp on her? 

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