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Old 06-18-2011, 05:00 PM
 
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well my attempt to be humorous might be taken the wrong way given the tone of this thread, so I'm removing my post...

Co-sleeping is really wonderful when your child actually SLEEPS!! familybed1.gif
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:57 PM
 
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Well lets see maybe loose the judgmental condescending tone..K thanks. Because I know what this site is about. I go to the parts that I find helpful and stay out of the rest. I don't go preaching that my way is the way to do things. And save your sadness about circ. Didn't promote it and didn't ask for your input on it. And really by your post here pretty much the way I read it is since I do the things I do I don't belong here. I belong here just as much as you do.

 

Just because I do a few "mainstream" things doesn't mean I am not doing what is best for my family and my children. I don't do CIO, we co slept till DD decided it wasn't working. I try really hard to keep from having mommy guilt and make my informed choices by doing the research but also with going with what works for us. I don't force my views on anyone here. Like I said I stay out of the boards that have no use to me. And if by chance I go in there its because something caught my eye and I read it and if I feel like commenting I do but its rare. 

 

I breastfed for the first 5/6 months of her life. I fully intended to go to at least 1. But became pregnant and for my own personal health reasons there is no way I would have survived nursing her as well as grow a healthy baby. I would have become very ill. My body does not absorb nutrients like normal people. I have to get tested at least once a year to have my levels checked and each time I still am borderline. So yeah lets see nurse because that is best for DD but yet take a chance and end up extremely ill and not give my baby a chance to be born healthy. As far as how I birthed. I went in with a natural med free birth plan. I couldn't do it and I feel no guilt for changing my mind and saying m plan wasn't going to work I need to change it. So there are just a few reasons.  Oh and my child is with me ALL THE TIME. The only time she has been away from me is when I go grocery shopping and she is with DH. When she was a newborn she spent 45 minutes with my mom while DH and I had to go to a meeting. Oh I did leave her with my dad too once for 20 minutes to run to the store. Outside of that my child is with me all the dam time. I don't plop her in front of the TV and sit on my ass to do something else. I watch TV. Its on all day but more for noise. We listen to a lot of music around here. She does watch 30 minutes a day though so I can safely make breakfast for the rest of the family while DH is getting ready for work. 

 

Editing to remove a comment that was knee jerk reaction. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post



 

Hi new2this! I'm glad you found your way to this site and have gained insight into some really important information like extended RF and have found some friends to hang out with....

 

But let me get this straight, you came to MDC and you really like it, that's great, but you realize that MDC is a NFL site, right? Of course you do. That doesn't mean you don't get to come and have fun over here, because there are very many varying degrees of what it means to be striving for natural family living. But here's the list of things you just threw out there:

 

1. Formula Feed

2. Jar Food Feed

3. Diaper with sposies

4. TV watch

5. Rarely eat organic food

 

and, the one that makes my heart cry:

 

6. You WILL circ any son of yours.

 

...and yet you walked onto this thread and were all "I totally don't understand why there has to be this sort of judgement on this site" - are you serious? This is a site for people who are striving to live an AP lifestyle. I wouldn't judge you for the way you feed your family, or for FF or any of those things because there are SO many reasons that you could do those things that have nothing to do with your ideal parenting situation. For all I know, you realize that (truly)oraganic food and baby food not from a jar are superior, but don't have the money to buy them  (I have to grow my own and barter with farmers, because it IS so expensive) - but the way you are saying these things is not like "I wanted to breastfeed, but it fell through" or "I wanted a natural birth, but ended up with something different" - you're more like "this is my ideal, this is the way we choose to live and I'm proud of it and you have to accept it". Am I not reading you correctly?

 

The reason I belong to this site, is because I believe that there are VERY important reasons WHY I choose the things I choose. It's hard not to have TV. It's HARRRDDD for me to cloth diaper. I have to do so much finagling and juggling to afford to feed my family whole, completely organic, in season food...raising our own chickens and rabbits for eggs and meat means I'm tied down to my home SO hard and can't travel the way I'd like to and it takes work and planning...but I do it because I can't afford organic meat and because I don't trust store bought organic eggs. I'M STRIVING FOR SOMETHING here and this site is a place where I can come to trade notes and feel proud of these accomplishments, as opposed to really weird, which is how a lot of people in real life try to make me feel for my choices.

 

The thread "You might be crunchy IF..." isn't about knocking moms who don't adhere to the letter on EVERY single "AP" ideal...it's about celebrating the fact that when you make a decision to dedicate your life to the natural family living practices and try to come AS CLOSE as possible to the "AP model" it takes a lot of hard work and planning and thinking, etc.

 

I'm not saying that you are a bad parent, I know your children are loved, will be well cared for always and will grow up to be just as smart, well educated and confident as anyone elses children on these boards...but when while your kid is watching TV, mine is with me, making every single task I have to complete during the day a little more complicated because I've got a three year old "helping" and a 19 month old hanging from my boob, or they are enjoying an art project I've planned for them which takes time and makes a mess, etc. While your baby is eating out of a jar, I'm grinding away with a food mill. While you are going to the store to pick up a pre-packaged chicken and a box of rice pilaf, I'm in my yard, plucking an animal I raised from a hatchling so I can stew it or finishing up the brain tanning of a rabbit hide that will serve as a trade for food from an organic farm down the road.

 

Yeah, your kid is probably not going to die from your disposable diapers.....but this is a site where women come to be proud of the intense effort (at least for me, I HATE CD!) it takes to be washing and hanging and keeping track of CDs. This is a site for women to come and not be weird for composting their poop. Where we can be proud of a three year breastfeeding milestone instead of just being  the "weird one at moms group" who is "still nursing that kid even though he's practically in college!" - I mean, come ON, WHERE can I come to brag a little on the efforts I'm making? Where can I be, where it's okay to be proud of the fact that my parenting ideal requires a bit more effort, planning and patience than a "mainstream" one, if not here on MDC?

 

You think your parenting is the best you can give your kids. I think my parenting is the best I can give my kids. I think we're both right. I also think you should not feel so comfortable coming onto a thread --for the sole purpose of bashing-- that is basically titled:

 

"In what ways do you feel your family is coming closest to reaching the absolute ideal family living situation as outlined by the philosophy that this website is based around?"

 

Because that's what this thread is about...and you came onto this thread and said:

 

"Here are all the ways I'm NOT trying to live the values of the philosophy this site is based on, plus I'm absolutely going to mutilate my future sons genitals...BUT I'm really into extended rear facing"

 

Again, your values and parenting choices are not what I'm judging, I'm questioning the judgment behind your insistence that members of this site not be able to openly celebrate their AP/Crunchy lifestyle choices on a website specifically created for the discussion of said choices.

 

The only part of your post I acutually judge you for, is the circumcision comment. Because WOW. We have plenty of mamas on here who learned too late about circ, or who felt bullied into it or just didn't think to question it...THAT, fits here just fine because everyone makes mistakes and sometimes you just don't know. But being exposed to the information and how huge a deal that issue is to women on this site and then openly and brazenly (really, like you're PROUD of the choice) saying that you absolutely are PLANNING to make a parenting choice that undermines the basic, most important, underlying concept of the philosophy of this entire website (don't harm your kids)....I just don't understand what you want this place to be.

 

You came onto a thread that was all about "how is your family trying to live by the NFL standards" - and you came on and were like "In most ways, the NFL is not really for us, but I don't think people on this site should be so "judgy" against us more mainstream types" - it's not about judging what YOU choose to be, it's about celebration of the efforts we make to be what this WHOLE WEBSITE is about. We all know that parenthood is humbling and that a lot of things fly out the window when we're actually in the trenches...but how come this site went from "here is why I'm so proud to be AP/Crunchy/NFL/whatever you want to call it" - to "Here are all the ways my mainstream parenting is just as good as your not to mainstream parenting" - ??

 

I'm not saying "there are other websites for YOUR kind of parenting"  - I'm saying:

 

I bet our kids would be so much alike if they ever met in real life and I bet they close their eyes just as happy and feeling just as loved at night. But um, when you see a thread that celebrates NFL on this site, if you don't have anything nice to contribute, could you just not say anything??" - that's all.

 

As always, sorry for the novel. It's a sickness, I know, I can't seem to cure it so....shy.gif

 



 

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Old 06-18-2011, 07:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by new2this View Post


Well lets see maybe loose the judgmental condescending tone..K thanks. Because I know what this site is about. I go to the parts that I find helpful and stay out of the rest. I don't go preaching that my way is the way to do things. And save your sadness about circ. Didn't promote it and didn't ask for your input on it. And really by your post here pretty much the way I read it is since I do the things I do I don't belong here. I belong here just as much as you do.

 

 

 



 


I have no issues with people using the parts of AP that work for them and ignoring the rest.   The area where it becomes difficult for me is where harm is involved, particularly to children- and I mean real harm, not, "oh, poor baby is having non-organic mushed beans harm".  Circing is one of those areas.  RIC is rejected by many, many people for very valid reasons.  

 

I am not sure you should post that you intend to circ on a public forum devoted to AP/NFL and expect it to go unchallenged.  I wouldn't let it go unchallenged anywhere.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 06-18-2011, 07:27 PM
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Hi folks.  This is a very interesting thread, and I have found myself nodding along as I read to much of what everyone have to say.

 

Let's remember a couple of things: We are here because we want the best for our kids, or we wouldn't have sought out this site.  There are people on the other side of that keyboard, and you don't know them, or their whole story, only what you have read here.  So, keep it civil, and respectful.  

 

Lastly, remember it is okay to laugh at ourselves. Sometimes what we do, and get worked up about can seem pretty wacky to others.  

 

 


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Old 06-18-2011, 07:51 PM
 
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I am not going to get into it. I stay away from the debates about it. For us we are not doing just because we have our reasons. We have done our research. And that is that. I do not go around promoting it, I don't care if people challenge it that is their right. And many people still do it for many valid reasons. Just because they don't go with your reasons doesn't make them any less valid.  But I am done with it now.

 

My problem was the way the thread came off as a I am better then you type thing. And I also made a second post in here saying I probably did overreact. I even stayed out of it till I was quoted. Because the fact is I take what i find helpful and toss out the rest if I don't agree with it or find it don't fit our family. I parent the way that I feel is right, in ways that come natural and very open minded in that if something doesn't work accepting it and changing it even if it goes against what I think it might not be right for my family. 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post




I have no issues with people using the parts of AP that work for them and ignoring the rest.   The area where it becomes difficult for me is where harm is involved, particularly to children- and I mean real harm, not, "oh, poor baby is having non-organic mushed beans harm".  Circing is one of those areas.  RIC is rejected by many, many people for very valid reasons.  

 

I am not sure you should post that you intend to circ on a public forum devoted to AP/NFL and expect it to go unchallenged.  I wouldn't let it go unchallenged anywhere.  

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

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Old 06-18-2011, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new2this View Post


<snip> I go to the parts that I find helpful and stay out of the rest. I don't go preaching that my way is the way to do things.<snip>


 



If only this were the case. See, all I'm asking, is that you do just ^that^. When you are on this site, because, as you have expressed, there are many things about NFL you don't find particularly appealing or necessary, you will often run into topics which are completely on point and relevant to many mamas here who DO find more of the NFL "checklist" appealing and necessary...but that aren't helpful or fun for you to discuss. That is okay, normal, even. There are many many times when I run into a topic on here that I don't post about, because it wouldn't be helpful for me or the people on the thread.

 

If you were on this site to participate in the threads you find helpful and "stay out of the rest" we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, would we? As far as preaching that your way is the way to do things....no, you shouldn't, because it's not. Neither is mine ***in regards to the overall community on this site*** the "way to do things" is the NFL/AP way....so, to sum up:

 

If you find a thread that is labeled: "in what ways are you striving for an AP/NFL lifestyle" - you have encountered something which fits with the overall theme of this website and the basic reason the whole site/magazine was created in the first place. If you don't "find the thread helpful" and, therefore, only feel like you have negative things to say, you should "stay out of it" and go find other topics to post on which are relevant and "helpful" to your brand of NFL.

 

Should you find a thread that is labeled something like "I'm planning to circ my sons" - you have encountered a thread which does not in any way shape of form fit with the overall theme of this website and the basic reason this whole site/magazine was created in the first place. If you don't find the thread helpful, you can move on, but if you feel like posting something negative/informative/discouraging to the OP...you should, because your comment would fit just fine with the basic principles of the philosophy we're supposed to all be here to enjoy and celebrate together.

 

I have no doubt that you are a good mother. I do not wish you to feel shame at your birth not being what you originally intended. I know all about how it feels to have a breastfeeding relationship cut short. I'm not judging those things, it's not my place and I genuinely to not see those things as failures.

 

All I'm asking you to do, is not go around expressing support for circ (a proud declaration that you "definitely plan to circ any sons" IS supporting it and on THIS site it WILL get you input) and to please resist the urge to come onto a thread celebrating all the things that mamas here feel make them "AP/NFL" and start talking about how "AP moms need to stop being so high and mighty just cause they choose a different path than "mainstream" moms.

 

We're all doing our best for our kids with what we've got. But THIS site DOES actually support and inform about a certain path above others.

 

P.S.: Kudos to you on parenting from the heart and gut. That IS a big part of NFL and you DO belong here, I never tried to say you don't and if my tone conveyed that, my most sincere apologies. It's not my place to decide who belongs here, I don't for a second believe that I am so great that I can totally scoff and be like "oh, so-and-so doesn't "get it" she totally doesn't belong here" - that's not even me. I just want to be able to read an awesome thread where mamas brag about all the cool, labor intensive, inventive and unknown to me ways that they are interpreting and living AP, without the snide remarks about "oh, I'm AP because I think I'm totally the coolest :eyeroll:" - you know? Like, seriously, I'm SO sick of that around here. It's a freakin' AP site. Come on!


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Old 06-18-2011, 09:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new2this View Post

I am not going to get into it. I stay away from the debates about it. For us we are not doing just because we have our reasons. We have done our research. And that is that. I do not go around promoting it, I don't care if people challenge it that is their right. And many people still do it for many valid reasons. Just because they don't go with your reasons doesn't make them any less valid.  But I am done with it now.

 

My problem was the way the thread came off as a I am better then you type thing. And I also made a second post in here saying I probably did overreact. I even stayed out of it till I was quoted. Because the fact is I take what i find helpful and toss out the rest if I don't agree with it or find it don't fit our family. I parent the way that I feel is right, in ways that come natural and very open minded in that if something doesn't work accepting it and changing it even if it goes against what I think it might not be right for my family. 

 


 



 


There is not a valid reason. (<feel free to challenge that statement with a valid reason to circ.) On this site there are many people who spend a great deal of time engaged in the battle to challenge, at every turn, the absolutely false notion that there is any humane, logical or valid reason to mutilate the genitalia of a human baby girl OR boy. THIS SITE is not for THAT SENTIMENT.

 

If I cannot change your "pro-circ" mentality, fine, but it is insulting, disheartening and very very odd for you to throw that sentiment around on this site with an attitude like "so what, it's my choice" - when one of the main reasons so many people who frequent this site fight so hard against circ is because we realize that it's ACTUALLY NOT your choice at all....or at least, IT SHOULDN'T BE.

 

YOU are welcome on this site(not because I say so, it's just a fact). CIRC is not welcome on this site(not because I say it's not, it's just a fact). Please go to the "Case again Circumcision" board and look for the subforum labeled "I'm Choosing To Circ" - let me save you time: It's not there. Unless you seek to make people uncomfortable or are very confused, I don't know why you would act like it's not going to be a big deal that you proudly defend your "right" to circ your son.

 

Sorry for the harsh tone, but that issue is kind of a biggie for me. Actually, a WICKED biggie.

 


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Old 06-18-2011, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by new2this View Post

I am not going to get into it. I stay away from the debates about it. For us we are not doing just because we have our reasons. We have done our research. And that is that. I do not go around promoting it, I don't care if people challenge it that is their right. And many people still do it for many valid reasons. Just because they don't go with your reasons doesn't make them any less valid.  But I am done with it now.

 

My problem was the way the thread came off as a I am better then you type thing. And I also made a second post in here saying I probably did overreact. I even stayed out of it till I was quoted. Because the fact is I take what i find helpful and toss out the rest if I don't agree with it or find it don't fit our family. I parent the way that I feel is right, in ways that come natural and very open minded in that if something doesn't work accepting it and changing it even if it goes against what I think it might not be right for my family. 

 


 



 


You've researched?  Then you know that circumcision is not a good idea.  Think of all of the women (your future sons' future wives) who've had to deal with issues of vaginal dryness, or being too loose, when the real issue is that their partners are circumcised.   You know that your future circumcised son would have less sensation than intact men.   You know that the foreskin is an important part of male anatomy.  Yes, there may be issues but it's the same as with vaginas and breasts, but we don't cut them off as preventative care.

 

I was going to circumcise any sons that I had as well until I really did become informed.  I thought it was just done, but it's not.  People do it for emotional reasons as well as religious reasons (same with female circumcision.)  I've seen some major damage done by circumcision. Pulled too tight, adhesions, tip cut off, scarring, impotence, curved in a way that made sex extremely uncomfortable.  No way in hell would I inflict that on my son.  I wouldn't do that to his future wife either.   I get so mad when I see women's bodies blamed for the harm that circumcision does.  All those commercials about curing vaginal dryness and hearing of surgeries to tighten vaginae.  Men who can only have anal sex because of insensitive penises.  Ugh, I'm so glad I got informed in time.

Here's a study if you're interested.

http://www.examiner.com/family-health-in-washington-dc/new-study-male-circumcision-and-sexual-difficulties-for-men-and-female-partners?fb_comment=34449916

 

 

 


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Old 06-19-2011, 08:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by new2this View Post

 For us we are not doing just because we have our reasons. We have done our research. And that is that. 

mama please do your research again. perhaps you looked at research from one perspective. try looking at the other perspective. 

 

unless you have religious reasons (and again i know even many parents ARE ignoring that) reasons, can you really watch your son being circumcised?

 

most mothers - not all - have stated saying its really, really hard on them to watch, be there for the whole circumsicion procedure. 

 

do your research please.

 

early 1900s US had one of hte highest low birth rate births in the world. why? because if you followed the research then, they all suggested women should be starved during pregnancy. OBs regularly put 3rd trimester women on bread adn water only diet to stop them from gaining weight. the people who refused to believe the doctors had regular births. 


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Old 06-19-2011, 09:30 AM
 
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I was really turned off by the comment about keeping score.  It's this lkind of that mom vs. this mom mentality which breaks our tribe. We're all moms and yes there are some shitty freaking moms out there doing some really bad things to their kids, but I believe the majority of moms and parents are trying to be better parents and love their children.  I can't put my finger on where the disdain and judgement manifests from, but it is there between moms.  Stop judging.  Just be a good mom, and your leading by example may influence a new mom and help an insecure mom.  Women have such incredible power to uplift each other and empower each other through support and women's grace, but we need to stop fighting each other, talking smack, and being catty.  I am speaking universally, not specific to this particular thread. 

 

I have made a very good friend in this forum because this mom was nonjudgemental and honest to the bone with me.  I was able to tell her my fears, my frustrations, and my mistakes and she listened and supported me.  She also gave her opinion, but she did without judging me.  I am so grateful to her. 

 

 

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Old 06-19-2011, 09:33 PM
 
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Dear Alenushka, 

 

I'm very sorry about your mom - I wish things had worked out better.hug2.gif

 

I'm writing hoping to add something to this discussion from a different perspective. 

 

In my own life, the so-called AP checklists, for a lack of better word, are ways to remind myself to slow down. They serve as reminders to be more present in my parenting.  They don't make me a good parent in and by themselves.  And they are certainly neither requirements nor guarantees for my offsprings to be happy now or in the future.  

 

It's partly due to my current lifestyle that I need reminders to slow down, in parenting or otherwise.  I wish things were different but given my particular constraints (real or imagined wink1.gif) - the AP approach have served me well to ground myself to the present moment.  Instead of rushing to the next task at hand, or instead of worrying about something or other, or whatever else is in the past or in the future, I can be here and now with my children.  It doesn't always work, of course smile.gif - but it probably happens more often because of AP. 

 

The specific recommendations that AP makes regarding childcare etc - for me, they've facilitated a more mindful parenthood.  I guess the bottomline is, for myself, AP has been very helpful - and I'm very grateful to have found it. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

There is a letter or the law and there is spirit of the law.

 

My mom gave birth to me with zero interventions. I slept in her bed till 2 and weaned when I felt like it. My mom only used cloth diapers. All the food was made from scratch. Summers were spent in the country raising chickens, picking berries, weeding the garden and drinking milk from the grass fed cows. I was home taught till age 7. We had very little TV and tons of books. My brother was no cirked.  I had few plastic toys and my grandma sewed all the clothes for my doll. 90% of the time my mothers used natural remedies like herbs and cupping and energy healers.

 

Oh, what a wonder full AP, holistic life I had as child.

 

My brother grew up to be a drug addict. I am still in therapy.

 

I grew up in Russia where this is the way life was back then and no one patted each other on the back and attached any special spiritual meaning to it.

 

I would rather be born via c/s, formula fed, and send to day care.  I would rather my mothers took thing like Lithium and Abilify. I would rather she had full time job instead of working from home. and did not  drink. Our entire life was punctuated by   her manic-depressive episodes and drinking binges. But yes, cloth diapers and breastfeeding. Hooray.  My mom filled out the AP checklist.

 

Middle class American are very privileged people compare to the rest of the world. Everything they do has special meaning and spiritual significance from ho their child fed to how their child poops. In the rest of the world, it just called life. In the rest of the world, some women would actually like epidural, and ability to work outside the home and have some childcare. In the rest of the world, women would like choices. I come from another time and another country and I never seize to amazed how amazingly self centered American are. Guess what, the rest of the universe and the rest of the world does not care.   All over  the world people do many of the thing that is called AP here without books, $$$ workshops and special products, martyrdom self congratulatory attitude.

 

P.S. A tip from the old world. You do not need so spend hour reading "How to Feed your Baby", and to spend hours with the food mill. You can just, gaps, mash or blend with a handheld blender whatever food the rest of the family is eating and feed that to your baby.

 

 



 

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Old 06-20-2011, 06:29 AM
 
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Dear Alenushka, 

 

I'm very sorry about your mom - I wish things had worked out better.hug2.gif

 

I'm writing hoping to add something to this discussion from a different perspective. 

 

In my own life, the so-called AP checklists, for a lack of better word, are ways to remind myself to slow down. They serve as reminders to be more present in my parenting.  They don't make me a good parent in and by themselves.  And they are certainly neither requirements nor guarantees for my offsprings to be happy now or in the future.  

 

It's partly due to my current lifestyle that I need reminders to slow down, in parenting or otherwise.  I wish things were different but given my particular constraints (real or imagined wink1.gif) - the AP approach have served me well to ground myself to the present moment.  Instead of rushing to the next task at hand, or instead of worrying about something or other, or whatever else is in the past or in the future, I can be here and now with my children.  It doesn't always work, of course smile.gif - but it probably happens more often because of AP. 

 

The specific recommendations that AP makes regarding childcare etc - for me, they've facilitated a more mindful parenthood.  I guess the bottomline is, for myself, AP has been very helpful - and I'm very grateful to have found it. 

 



 


MamaMunchkin: Thank you for describing exactly what it is that I meant to say in a much more clear and loving tone. When I said that "I guess AP is my religion" - what I really meant is what you said above, that it keeps me tethered and slowed down and "present" in my parenting and mindful that I don't let myself get carried away in zeal and "purpose". I'm too rigid and take things too seriously sometimes and AP helps me to be easy, fun and loving with my kids.

 

My overwhelming desire in parenting my kids, is to give them a better childhood than I had. But that is a crappy place to come from, it attaches too much baggage and negative emotion....so the vehicle I use for the desire is AP and it makes our WHOLE family SO much better, relaxing and easy going, allowing me to accomplish that goal of not repeating the mistakes my mother made.

 

Thank you again, you put it into words in such a wonderful way. <3

 


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Old 06-20-2011, 09:27 AM
 
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My kid and I watch TV together.

 

I am so tired of people positioning themselves as superiors human beings "We do not have TV".

TV is not better than books. No more than opera is better than ballet. Those are different art forms. There is bad books and bad TV.

 

We love TV and we are avid book readers. My video game TV watching kids attended more museums, seen more opera, ballet and Broadway musical than any of my none TV watching friends.

They cook from scratch with me and they incorporate ideas we saw on cooking shows.  They recognize literary allusion in Simpson's and Futurama.

 

Shows like Six Feet Under have amazing writers and complex idea developments. So does War and Peace.

 

When I was in colleges (degree in Literature with honors), I remember all my classmate going on and on about evil of TV.  Funny thing is, they also complain who they have no time to read or write all that was assigned to us.

 

I find entire idea of competing for "I am the crunchiest " kind of sad.  I did not breastfeed or use cotton diapers or modified my career so I could get  medal for that.  it worked for us but it does not mean we are better parents.

 

Years from now, when you see bunch of young kids in college, you will not be able to say who was BF till 2, who ate organic food and who was in the sling  , and who was in the stroller.   What you will see  is who was truly loved by his parents and grew up knowing it. And while organic food is nice, that is not what makes kid feel loved.

 

 

 


i didn't have anything else to say on the thread.. but.. you're wrong.  books ARE better than tv!  they ARE!  (but 6 feet under is good too.)

 


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Old 06-20-2011, 03:35 PM
 
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You might be crunchy if:

Your had to call a plumber because your toddler flushed 2 cloth wipes (used as cloth tp).

You know who Alfie Kohn is, and you have a strong opinion of him.

You have ever tried nut yeast (sorry, I like the shorthand lol) on popcorn. (sorry, I don't think I'll do it again)

You're still amazed at how little compost you get from soooooo much food waste!

 

 

The perceived judgement from the first page onward is really wierd. It would never occur to me that someone saying they eat nutritional yeast is equivalent to them saying that if you don't eat it, then you do not belong in the crunchy club.

Just because someone has never owned a crib doesn't make them crunchier than someone who has owned a crib. And them saying that they never owned a crib doesn't mean they are saying that they are better than someone who has owned a crib. I think they are just saying that they've never owned a crib and that's one crunchy thing that they do  shrug.gif 

 

And ftr, Elmo doesn't bother me in the least. Neither did Caillou. When ds2 is playing with him Elmo toy, I'm just glad that he's entertained with something and not making a mess or doing something that might hurt him! Oh...you know what else doesn't bother me that bothers about every other person I know? The corn popper toy. Same reason as why Elmo doesn't bother me. It means that ds2 is busy and I don't have to worry about him for at least another 30 seconds. lol.

Just to be clear, I'm not judging anyone who is bothered by those things. It's all good.


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Old 06-20-2011, 05:40 PM
 
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I thought this thread was funny, not "we are the champions, my friends."  I agree with the PPs that say do what you wanna do as long as you love your children.  I don't think the OP made this out to be a superiority forum.  Just funny. 



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Old 06-20-2011, 06:00 PM
 
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*


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Old 06-20-2011, 06:07 PM
 
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So, I read a little more into this thread, and I just don't get why people are getting offended...  I mean, I don't do lots of the things that some of the mamas listed, but I NEVER got the feeling that these mamas were trying to imply that they were better than me because of it.  I feel like the only reason it would offend me, is if I was insecure with some of the choices I'm making.  I'm obviously not, because I can read through all of these, and easily see the humor in them.  I also fully understand not being able to share some of these things with my IRL friends, because they'd never get it.  (None of my IRL friends/family can understand why in the world I'd choose to CD, or raise my children vegan, or let  my babies sleep in my bed until they're ready to move on, etc.)

 

I just didn't get the "This is why we're better than everyone else" vibe from this thread.  At all.  *shrugs*


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Old 06-20-2011, 06:48 PM
 
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Because you believe and think of what do you do, for you, and for your family and how would affect your family, the world, and how, and not because you care whatever people thinks about you.

You are informed, dare to look beyond, are open minded and you don't even care if you are crunchy or not.grouphug.gif

 

Seriously, I have seeing so called crunchy parents, that cloth diaper and eat organic and they promote competitiveness  on their kids and tell them not to share their organic food because it's too expensive and teach they children to ask if the food that is offered from a little friend at the park if  it's organic or not.

Sorry, but for me, you just lost all your crunchiness when they do that.

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Old 06-20-2011, 07:19 PM
 
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I love you (Not in that way, in the online sort of way when people say amazing things)
 

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Because you believe and think of what do you do, for you, and for your family and how would affect your family, the world, and how, and not because you care whatever people thinks about you.

You are informed, dare to look beyond, are open minded and you don't even care if you are crunchy or not.grouphug.gif

 

Seriously, I have seeing so called crunchy parents, that cloth diaper and eat organic and they promote competitiveness  on their kids and tell them not to share their organic food because it's too expensive and teach they children to ask if the food that is offered from a little friend at the park if  it's organic or not.

Sorry, but for me, you just lost all your crunchiness when they do that.



 

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Old 06-20-2011, 08:45 PM
 
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Aiye.

 

I'm really getting tired of all the negative energy at MDC.

 

 

....it's getting reallllllllllllly old!

 

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Old 06-20-2011, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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honestly in typical age of 6 1/2 fashion, he changed the subject while I was starting to fumble my way through a response....starting with...."well yeah, I have heard of a few..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamayogibear View Post


I'm curious, what did you say?



 



 


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Old 06-20-2011, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well....I guess it's just my own mentality that I've only heard of ONE in a Mothering article  ;) and my opinion that most of the homebirthers I know have reasons they want a female, and a female who has had children...and his dad is from a culture where men don't even attend the births of their own children typically, it is a woman-dominated domain.  So...the pause while I look for an answer.  (Said Daddy however attended all 4 of our children's births and caught the last one!  :)  live and learn)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ryleigh's Mommy~ View Post


 


Why??? headscratch.gif One of the best midwives I know is a male (CNM, phd)  He is actually the Head of the OB department (over all the other mw's and OB's) at the hospital where I work. 

Do you also pause about what to say when your daughter says she wants to be a doctor when she grows up??  greensad.gif

 



 


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Old 06-21-2011, 05:11 AM
 
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Quote:
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There is a letter or the law and there is spirit of the law.

 

My mom gave birth to me with zero interventions. I slept in her bed till 2 and weaned when I felt like it. My mom only used cloth diapers. All the food was made from scratch. Summers were spent in the country raising chickens, picking berries, weeding the garden and drinking milk from the grass fed cows. I was home taught till age 7. We had very little TV and tons of books. My brother was no cirked.  I had few plastic toys and my grandma sewed all the clothes for my doll. 90% of the time my mothers used natural remedies like herbs and cupping and energy healers.

 

Oh, what a wonder full AP, holistic life I had as child.

 

My brother grew up to be a drug addict. I am still in therapy.

 

I grew up in Russia where this is the way life was back then and no one patted each other on the back and attached any special spiritual meaning to it.

 


You grew up in SOVIET Russia.  Your parents had no choices.  They didn't have the option of *not* doing the things they did.   In America, in 2011, we have a CHOICE to be AP or not.  The very existence of this forum is for LIKE-MINDED individuals to have a place to discuss things that are not even understood elsewhere by people who do things differently.  We will still raise children who end up drug addicts or in therapy or do something horrendous that we scratch our heads about.  But NFL and AP is a CHOICE and MDC should always be a place to discuss these things WITHOUT it being a pissing contest.

 

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Old 06-21-2011, 08:30 AM
 
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It's kind of sad how quickly this thread deteriorated so quickly into people feeling judged and hurt. I thought this was supposed to be a group that supported eachother. Just sayin.

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Old 06-21-2011, 08:46 AM
 
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I said yes! He knows that I'm a midwife and he's quite proud of me.. Now, do I think he's likely to grow up and be one? Nah. But at 6 years old I think a lot of children want to mimic their parents. 


Happy single mom of six amazing children ~ Charlotte 15, Bethany 13, James 11, Joseph 7, Noah 6, and Naomi 4.

 

Blessed to be a CPM/LM in Virginia and doing work that I love.. as well as blessed to have worked with talented midwives who shared their knowledge with me. 

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Old 06-21-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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I haven't had a chance to finish reading the whole thread yet, but I will.  I'm going to say, Ldavis, Gina, other ladies who feel insulted...

 

Gently... you are taking this too personally.  Seriously.  This really was a fun, silly thread.  The stuff I'm going to list as my ridiculous crunchiness is not about insulting or putting anyone down who doesn't do what I do.  I do the weird/crunchy stuff I do because I want to.  If you don't want to, that's ok.  Really.

 

So!  In my house you can tell the ubercrunch by the solar panels on the roof, the ever-growing organic garden, the freezer full of organic/free range meat, the lack of big permanent install electronics (we do have laptops), and the lack of paper products.  My kid is very confused by toilet paper in public restrooms and she comments on my 'mama diapers'.  When we add bodies we get rid of stuff instead of upgrading to a bigger house.  This way I don't have to sacrifice my non-crunchy obsessions. ;)

 

To make it funny, you know you are a crunchy parent when the neighbors offer to let your kid come over to watch tv at their house. ;)  

 

I forgot!  I also nursed my oldest till 3.  But then I lost my crunchy cred because I informed her that I was done so she was too. :P


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Old 06-21-2011, 10:09 AM
 
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Agreed, thanks for posting - it can definitely be intimidating to come around here from the more mainstream perspective!

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Old 06-21-2011, 10:41 AM
 
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Whoa.  Now that I've read the whole thing... harsh.  I read AP books because I was abused as a kid and I don't know what good parenting looks like.  I really don't think I should be put down for that. :(  I believe in gentle parenting (with very strong parent set limits) because from the research I've seen it seems like the best idea.  But I screw up.

 

I do crunchy stuff because I like to.  Not because I think it will turn out better/superior kids.  It's my hobby.  I don't think everyone has to share my hobby or that I am morally superior because I am having fun figuring out composting rather than playing video games. I'm a weird anti-authority, anti-government freak and I'd like to be prepared for a revolution. :P  That's a weird quirk, not a moral superiority.  It's ok for me to be like this.  It's ok for people to be different.

 

I'm also going to jump up and say that despite the fact that I am rabidly anti-circumcision and I go off on the topic at great length, frequently.... I believe that there are reasons people do it.  They may not be reasons I like but they are reasons.  I don't get to tell someone they don't have a reason for their actions.  That's hubris.


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Old 06-21-2011, 11:14 AM
 
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Wow, just wow.  I am really disheartened that a thread entitled "You Know You're a Crunchy Parent When"... dissolved into ridiculous negativity.  The thread was about what YOU (as an individual) do that sets you apart from the mainstream.  It did not say "I know" or "People Know" because it was about sharing your own experience, not casting judgment on others.  The part that I find most curious and upsetting is that people got defensive BEFORE there was anything to be defensive about.  There were absolutely no judgments passed initially, just a group of parents sharing anecdotes and personal practices.  This thread is a good example of what is happening to Mothering now that the original intention of the site is less clearly maintained.  I think discourse is healthy and beneficial.  However, a group of grown ups who cannot participate in a lighthearted thread about what sets them apart (whatever that may be) is a sad occurrence. 

 

The purpose of this website was to establish a place for like minded parents to come together and discuss natural family living.  Of course everyone does not adhere to every single practice or principle.  We do what works best for our own families given our own particular circumstances.  If being proud of natural birth, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, cloth diapering, and gentle discipline is distasteful, perhaps this is the wrong site for you.

 

In the intended spirit of the post, I know I am a crunchy parent because:

 

  1. I have not been away from my daughter for more than 30 minutes since the day she was born almost 6 months ago.
  2. I have mastered the art of getting baby poo stains out of our diaper covers.
  3. Having a breast show in public as I struggle to feed a crying baby while grocery shopping/eating/returning library books no longer phases me.
  4. Our medicine cabinet is full of herbal tinctures and salves.
  5. My DH was afraid that his homemade deodorant would be a point of suspicion when going through customs.
  6. The co-sleeper crib that we purchased has only every been used to store throw pillows and the baby has slept with us from day one :)
  7. I don't own a stroller and have figured out how to nurse in both the baby carriers I own.
  8. Neither my daughter or myself have ever been vaccinated.
  9. We bring items home to recycle them.
  10. Our dog eats homemade organic dog food.
  11. Baby was born on the floor in our bedroom (intentionally).
  12. We are members of the local food co-op.
  13. There is a placenta sitting in our freezer waiting to be planted under a tree in whatever house we end up buying.
  14. Our daughter's first solid food will be homemade organic applesauce made from locally sourced fruit.

 

As a side note, I'm not a vegan, I don't use family cloth, raise chickens, or hang all of our laundry to dry.  I do use cloth diapers but employ a local service to clean them.  I don't feel bad about any of this, it never occurred to me to approach this thread in the spirit of competition.  I love reading about what everyone else is doing and I hope that we can all get over ourselves enough to use this site as a source of inspiration and support.

 

*Edited to say: I realize that a description of my lifestyle is dangerously to sounding like an SNL sketch about hippie parents and I'm ok with that.

 


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Old 06-21-2011, 12:15 PM
 
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I thought this thread started out great!  It's about what makes us unique as parents, not trying to one-up others.  I really don't think we'll all have the same definition of "crunchy" parents at all.  But I love the  game of figuring out what the word means to each of us.  Who said "crunchy" was better?  I guess I missed  that part of the post.

 

Anyway, if less offensive, I will say, "Here is what I think of as a crunchy parent, or the silly things I find myself doiing" rather than, "you know you're crunchy if..."

 

You find yourself making your own "get ready for baby" book for big sis because you can't find one that leaves out both  bottles AND diapers.

You cannot figure out where your daughter learned about Hannah Montana and Lady Gaga!

You google EC and are surprised to find a whole bunch of links about the European Commission instead of diaper free babies.

You keep having to remind yourself to expose your child to movies every now and then because you think it's good for her to have some idea of this phenomenon...but surprisingly not because she ever asks!  (I imagine that might come later:)

 

 

 

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