CIO in the car and I HATE IT!!! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is related to my Baby Hates the Car post (copied and pasted below)

 

Most importantly to me, I just want to know, is this the same as CIO???  This is what KILLS me the most!  DS1's camp is 20 minutes away.  Add it up, thats 20 minutes both ways TWICE a day (thankfully only 2 days a week though) but thats 80 minutes in one day!  Granted, I take him out and soothe him before we turn around and go back home but still...he's only 3 months old and I would never ever ever make a baby CIO regardless of age...but feel worse with how young he is.  I can't do this to him anymore!!!!  I'm so upset right now...greensad.gif  The way he looks up at me when I go to take him out, the tears in his eyes.  I'm crying typing this, I can't do this to him anymore, this poor innocent baby screaming bloody murder in my back seat...

 

Sorry, I'm just at my wits end here and I just don't see it getting better right now...my 4 yo just asked me why I'm crying so I have to go put on a happy face for him...

 

 

This is my copied and pasted post from earlier:

 

My 3 month old LITERALLY screams in the car from the moment you pull out of the driveway until you get the car seat out of the car. It's not the seat. I've put him in it many of times with him smiling and to click him into the base in the car and he is fine. Start the car...SCREAMING begins. No exaggeration here. I've tried a mirror, no mirror, I've tried putting him in the car in a deep sleep. How do I shut the door without waking him? Thats where that one went wrong. I've fallen into a tiny depression because of it. I can't stay home since it's not fair to my 4 year old so whats a mama to do? I have no idea. I'm starting to get desperate and think to install a DVD player for him back there though I hate that idea entirely...but what if it works? It may be worth the tiny bit of TV for a baby for a distraction so I can actually drive somewhere and talk to my 4 year old without tears in my voice. It shakes me. I'm an attachment parent and babywear a lot and a lot of folks have asked if that could be why since he is always attached to me.  So obviously, it's difficult for me to listen to crying - no matter what your parenting style - who can bare the sound of your baby screaming 20 + minutes straight? I can't. Pulling over and soothing does nothing because when its time to put him back in the seat, it starts all over again.  I have to drive my 4 year old to camp (he loves camp and it's good for him right now) and it's 20 minutes away!  I get there and then have to take baby out, soothe, breastfeed, start all over again to go home.  It's horrible.  I noticed it starts as soon as the car starts to move a bit.  He could be fine for a minute or two but then BOOM the screaming begins.  I'm so screwed if this is how it will be until he is at least 2 to FF in the seat if rear facing is what is freaking him out.  It's almost as if he can sense he is moving and maybe the backwards movement is it?  I will also add that 2 weeks ago it was hit or miss, we would have a few here and there moments in the car where he wouldnt cry at all.  

So...anyone got any insight on this?


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#2 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 11:50 AM
 
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My DD was exactly like this. I do not believe it is b/c he is RF b/c she is almost 2 and still RF and is fine now. There really is not much you can do. To help ease my mommy guilt and to try and let her know she was not alone I would talk and sing to her while driving.

 

I would just say simple things like "Almost there hunny" or "We've got 3 more lights to get through" things like that...whenever she was still upset and we were almost home I would slowly count to 10 with 10 being me opening the door to get her out. She still looks forward to this in the car!

 

I still struggle with whether to call that CIO or not b/c well you are driving, in there with him but well he doesn't care you still aren't attending to him. For what it's worth he can smell you up to 15ft if you are BFing lol That's what I would tell myself "at least she can smell me" lol

 

Oh yeah I always told her "Mommy can't pick you up b/c we are in the car and I am so sorry but it's for your safety" OBVS she can not "understand" that but IDK seems to have made us feel a bit better.

 

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#3 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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Yes, it truly is awful & upsetting for everyone! But I truly do NOT believe it is cio. With cio no one is around, there is no attempt to soothe. In the car your older child is within view (I'm assuming) at least half of this drive time so dc can visually see someone & they can hear your voice & reassurance.

 

FWIW - we had some AWFUL drives with ds but it did get better & he became VERY good in the car.

 

We didn't use a soother otherwise but in the car was the one place we did use for awhile.

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#4 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 02:27 PM
 
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My oldest 3 children LOVED the carseat; youngest 3 HATED it when they were about 3 months to 5 months.  We go to church 30 minutes away and each one would cry the whole time there and back.  It was SO stressful!  However, I do NOT view it as CIO because there's nothing else I can do.  You CAN go pick up a child out of a crib - but you legally can't take your child out of his carseat while the car is in motion.  AND, the intentions are different.  I'm not strapping a child in his carseat and thinking, "you're just going to have to learn to like this because mommy needs you to" but "we HAVE to go somewhere; I know you don't like your carseat and I feel for you, but it's the safest place for you while we're driving."  Totally different things.  IMHO, CIO is about ME; requiring a child to ride in a carseat (even if they don't like it) is not - it's about my child's safety.  He will outgrow it - I promise.  In the meantime, I would avoid the DVD player - not good at all for baby's developing brain!

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#5 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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my dd just hated the bucket seat, when we switched to a britax (still rfing) she shushed right up.


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#6 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 04:37 PM
 
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I think some kids just go through this stage. For DS it was from 3 weeks until about 3-4 months. It was awful. I cried every time we went anywhere. He cried so hard he vomited. It was rough.
One day though, he just outgrew it. Nothing changed except his reaction. He's 27 months now, still RFing, and LOVES the car. 2 hours to the mountains is his idea of a good time.
I agree with PPs- it's heartbreaking, I know, but i don't think it's at all comparable to CIO.
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#7 of 154 Old 07-08-2011, 04:54 PM
 
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mama why is this affecting you so much? why is it reducing you to depression? why is the crying triggering? you need to look into this. this has nothing to do with your baby. this has to do with you. and your answer might lie right there.

 

you have one other child to take care of. why are you giving your other child so much power over you.

 

please dont feel i am writing this off. i am just trying to imagine if you had my child instead of yours. you would be a complete mess, unable to take care of both your kids. 

 

crying was a big part of the first few months of dd's life. yes i was torn up but i had to act and honestly between a broken marriage, working i did not have the support of anyone (yes neither from my then dh) and so i just did not have the freedom of being depressed.

 

do you have undiagnosed PPD?  is your child's crying triggering something? would it be helpful to see a therapist?

 

the key here to me is - not how to find ways to stop your son crying - but you. how to help you cope with your child crying. 

 

what is its a worst case scenario? what is your son is crying from the pain of chemotherapy? how are you going to function then mama? i never want to wish that on any mama. ever. 

 

 

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#8 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I did have baby blues but I honestly don't think it's PPD...but its more that I just feel so shaken when I hear him cry for a long period of time.  I know how damaging it can be to a baby's brain crying that long and thats the part I think about.  The (possible) damage caused by crying so hard.  His hands are shaking by the time I get him out, his eyes are welled up and his face is beat red.  How can I not let that affect me?

 

When I wrote this post I just got back and just got him calm and he was in my mei tei as I typed and I was really fed up.  It's been almost 3 weeks of this every time I leave the house and I just feel so saddened that he hates the car and screams that much.  Think about it, it's almost like I feel like I can't go anywhere.  Now, I know I can, and I have to, but it feels like I can't.  For instance, DH suggested we go to the beach today.  Thats 25-30 minutes.  Not ideal but...it is what it is, I guess.

 

I do have days where I just turn up the radio and talk to my 4yo over it.  I just sort of pretend I can't hear it and reach my destination.  Other days, like yesterday, where I truly put in so much effort to keep him asleep and for it to fail was so frustrating.  I don't know, I'm rambling, maybe it's frustration combined with me feeling so bad for the baby.  

 

I guess I just need to toughen up, huh?  I'm going to put my best face forward and just deal with it, I swear, but I guess I vented a bit much here.  I think after I wrote this post, I almost felt better...like it was just talking and getting my feelings out.  Still sucks to hear a young baby scream but I know it could always be worse...he is healthy and that is what is truly most important.


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#9 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 06:25 AM
 
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Not CIO. He will get over it and it will not kill him to cry while you do what you have to do. I think that getting it over with and not prolonging the journey is the best thing.

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#10 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 06:26 AM
 
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It has been a long time, but, wow, do I remember crying in the car.  It was awful!  It did not help that any time I complained about it people would say "but infants usually love the car!".  GAHHHH.

 

Nothing really helped.  Putting up a sun blocker did a bit as the sun was getting in their eyes.  I would occasionally put baby in the carseat and nurse baby in the seat hoping he/she would go to sleep there.  It worked sometimes.

 


You will get through this and it will end.

 

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#11 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 06:33 AM
 
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CIO is an intentional attempt to teach a baby to get used to not having cries responded to. A baby crying in the car is an unfortunate example of how babies are not always going to be happy, but it isn't something you're doing intentionally to teach him anything. You are trying to minimize it when you can. Babies even cry in arms a lot, and that isn't CIO despite how awful they feel when crying. The fact is that babies are human and have the same range of emotions of all humans, but have fewer ways to express their emotions so much comes out in cries. Respond as much as you are able, but unfortunately there will be times he will cry despite your best efforts, and there's no point in feeling so awful about it if it's outside of your control. Just do your best and try to be at peace with those things beyond you. I bet it's over half of babies who go through this stage, and they all end up OK in the end. Minimize driving where you are able to, give him verbal cues that you're there and love him, try music or whatever might help him as much as you can, and understand that despite your best efforts, he doesn't like the car and will be unhappy some to all of the time he is in the car. I honestly think you're doing a good job dealing with it as well as you can, and you should cut yourself a ton of slack. Hold in there!
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#12 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 07:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

mama why is this affecting you so much? why is it reducing you to depression? why is the crying triggering? you need to look into this. this has nothing to do with your baby. this has to do with you. and your answer might lie right there.

 

you have one other child to take care of. why are you giving your other child so much power over you.

 

please dont feel i am writing this off. i am just trying to imagine if you had my child instead of yours. you would be a complete mess, unable to take care of both your kids. 

 

crying was a big part of the first few months of dd's life. yes i was torn up but i had to act and honestly between a broken marriage, working i did not have the support of anyone (yes neither from my then dh) and so i just did not have the freedom of being depressed.

 

do you have undiagnosed PPD?  is your child's crying triggering something? would it be helpful to see a therapist?

 

the key here to me is - not how to find ways to stop your son crying - but you. how to help you cope with your child crying. 

 

what is its a worst case scenario? what is your son is crying from the pain of chemotherapy? how are you going to function then mama? i never want to wish that on any mama. ever. 

 

 



This is really not helpful. Of course the op is upset when her child is inconsolable- that is being a loving, compassionate mother! It is really insensitive to suggest that someone must be wrong with her for reacting to her child's discomfort and imply she isn't properly caring for the older child because she is concerned about the younger. Why in the world should this mother coming to us in desperation be attacked for having those emotions?

 

I'm sorry, but to people who have dealt with PPD, hearing that someone "didn't have the freedom to be depressed" is so over the top offensive. I guess we should thank our lucky stars that life was easy enough to squeeze that depression in there. eyesroll.gif

 

 

OP, I've had two car criers and it is such a helpless feeling. Everything inside you is screaming to hold your baby and it just isn't an option! There is nothing wrong with feeling upset when your child is upset. That is natural! I promise you it will get better eventually. I know that doesn't make it easier in the meantime...hang in there mama hug2.gif

 

 

 

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#13 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 07:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agatha_Ann View Post





This is really not helpful. Of course the op is upset when her child is inconsolable- that is being a loving, compassionate mother! It is really insensitive to suggest that someone must be wrong with her for reacting to her child's discomfort and imply she isn't properly caring for the older child because she is concerned about the younger. Why in the world should this mother coming to us in desperation be attacked for having those emotions?

 

I'm sorry, but to people who have dealt with PPD, hearing that someone "didn't have the freedom to be depressed" is so over the top offensive. I guess we should thank our lucky stars that life was easy enough to squeeze that depression in there. eyesroll.gif

 

 

OP, I've had two car criers and it is such a helpless feeling. Everything inside you is screaming to hold your baby and it just isn't an option! There is nothing wrong with feeling upset when your child is upset. That is natural! I promise you it will get better eventually. I know that doesn't make it easier in the meantime...hang in there mama hug2.gif

 

 

 



I completely agree with this.  I was kind of shocked at how insensitive and dismissive that post was.

 

My second was a car crier for a while and it sucked!  It does make you feel trapped and guilty.

 

I tried different things until I found something that worked, which seemed to be different every day!  Some things that I had in my bag of tricks were a CD with ocean sounds, a CD of lullabies, a kids' music CD, and a CD of kids' stories read by a child with the cutest voice ever (they are free podcasts on iTunes - search for www.bigstorytime.com on iTunes).  It seemed that having a different "voice" for DD to hear helped distract her from being upset.  Some days it worked better than other, and I would just cycle through them.

 

Hang in there.  It's so hard, but your son won't do this forever.  And it's definitely not CIO.  He knows you are there, he can hear your voice.  

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#14 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 09:05 AM
 
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1.) It's definitely not CIO.

 

2.) I know a LOT of babies have this issue with the car, if that helps any. My daughter did, too. She would cry like she was dying in her carseat and when I tried to give her a bath. She's 11 months now and is over both things. But when it was happening, I talked to a lot of people about it because I bothered me. Experienced mamas and my pediatrician all assured me it is REALLY normal.

 

3.) I don't think meemee's post was meant to be negative like some of y'all are making it out to be.

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#15 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 10:15 AM
 
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baby's brain. AHA!!!! so that is what is at the base of your concerns. THIS is what is your underlying worry is. an hour of crying a day affect the brain? so every time you are in the car you hold yourself responsible for how it might affect your baby's brain. i dont know.i am not a scientist. i have read and studied some of what our species survival tactics are, but lets try to think of this logically shall we? is this what you have read in your research for CIO and its worrying you that it might forever scar your child? I think the human baby is meant to have such a intense helpless cry so that no one can ignore them. i think crying by yourself in a locked room - yes its bad. because with that crying also comes feelings of abandonment and rejection. but with loving people around the baby i dont think it makes them feel that abandoned. if that is your concern then perhaps a half hour crying then a 10 minute break and then another half hour crying would be good wouldnt it? instead of a continuous focused one hour crying getting the blood pressure up and all that?

 

mama mothers with colicky babies and high needs baby they deal with HOURS of intense crying where the baby is RED, throwing up and then cant calm down - as the mamas try to find something to calm their babies down. there are many mamas on this board with children like them. has that affected them. speaking for myself i can say perhaps it might make them clingy? so they need to hold your skirt tales a little bit more? nothing else has particularly stood out for my child.  

 

if you are looking at the development of man look at how crying changes at 3 months or so. you get that sad face, lips upturned totally pull at your heartstrings look your baby gets. i think that's our species survival mode because perhaps the screaming now frustrates our parents so they now have to think of other ways to be taken care of. amazing isnt it?!!!
 

Quote:
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I guess I just need to toughen up, huh?  

yes. unfortunately its true. just a rather sad way of stating it, but its true. your baby is only 3 weeks old. you CANNOT let this get to you. yes i can totally relate to teh frustration and the deep sadness and the anger too. its just one of those hard truths of motherhood. when your child is pulling you down, when they are getting you 'depressed' which is the ultimate imho - you need to find something to deal with it. you have to get inside you and go deeper into your well of coping. for me it was easier. i had only one child and i could avoid the car as much as possible. i could not take rides. it affected every single driver who heard her cry. one of the ways i took the focus off myself was to talk to her or sing to her. sometimes that would calm me down if i had reached the bottom of my well. 

 

i am glad to hear you felt a little better about venting here. that is excellent. you took care of yourself. that is KEY. finding ways to empathise with the baby rather than focus on you is the KEY. 

 

venting is good. and come over here and vent away. but ur post here didnt sound like venting at all. to me it sounded like a cry for help. help me find a way to stop this baby cry. i cant deal with it. its starting to get to me. and i am telling you here is that this is going to go on for a bit. try to deal with it. this is just the 'beginning' stages of parenting - an important stage i think where we need to find/discover ways to take care of ourselves. and so i want this to be about you. not your son. to find ways to take care of yourself. 

 

I'm going to put my best face forward

not by forcing yourself but actually believing in it. it absolutely sucks to hear a baby cry. something happens to you when you become a mother. my dd is 9 and i still cant hear a baby cry even in a movie. make sure before you go out in the car YOU have taken care of yourself. prepare yourself. even a 15 sec of deep breathing, anything. figure out a way to center yourself. and do something when he starts crying. if nothing else talk about your feelings to your 4 year old. 

i did not mean to offend those of you who have suffered from PPD. it was not a insensitive comment. there are two forms of depression (i am not sure exactly what they are called). the need medicine kind of depression where there is no avoiding it. and then there is the circumstantial depression where your situation is making you depressed and if you keep giving in it does turn into the need medicine kind of depression. when you have PPD you dont have a choice. when you have the circumstantial type you absolutely have a choice - of falling into the abyss or always pushing it away. 

 

i was in the circumstantial one. and so i had a choice of pushing it away. because i had no, nada, zilch support. dh was overwhelmed with a baby and he wanted out. it was a matter of when. to deal with his feelings he was already emotionally abusing me and seeing other people. i knew i was on my own. completely. and the only thing this screaming HNs baby had was me. so no i could not giving into the depression i was already in and let it get deeper. 

 

thank you coffeegirl. it wasnt meant to be. 


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#16 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 10:35 AM
 
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I can completely relate. DD hated the car with a passion from 3 weeks to about 4 months. She still would rather not be in it, but tolerates it...ok. There have been a few occasions where we both had breakdowns. I knew that, even though she could hear me, she was distressed because she couldn't SEE me. Even with a mirror (which only shows the back of my head and the little sliver of face from the rearview mirror), she would panic because out of sight=not there. She was and is so used to being near my body, the car is a real shock. My fear was not so much brain damage, but her feeling abandoned and developing a car anxiety. She's finally at an age where she understands that I am actually there with her when I speak to her. It helps to reach around her seat and caress her face; and when possible, I just sit in the back with her, especially on long trips. I don't think there is a need to 'toughen up'. Continue showing empathy and concern for your baby when he's upset in the car, sing/talk/do whatever to help, and know you are doing the best you can for him in the situation. He HAS to be in his seat for safety, and you HAVE to go wherever it is you are going. *hugs*


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#17 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wouldn't exactly say the brain is the base of my concern but it's in the back of my head amongst feeling horrible that he is screaming for a long period ( and thank goodness it's not hours like colic...so in that perspective, I feel silly) but I'm not back there with him, so it's almost as if he's alone.

He's three months, not weeks, if that makes any difference. I will toughen up. I think I have for the most part as of late but I have days that I just feel so worn from it. I wish I could just run an errand or two whenever I wanted to!
I know it will get better...

Thanks everyone for listening!

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#18 of 154 Old 07-09-2011, 06:39 PM
 
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My dd was a carseat hater and I never did find a solution.  When she was able to eat in the car and FF it helped a lot.  I planned my errands around each other so we could keep the trama to one or two days and really just stuck to the essentials even then so I could make the trips as short as possible.  I sang and talked to her for the whole drive.  We walked and took the bus as much as possible as well.  How long is the daycamp?  Is there a mall or coffee shop close by that you could go into while you wait for your son to be done so you don't have to make the trip four times?  Is taking the bus a practical solution?  Are there things closer to home that your son can participate in?  I don't think that what you are doing is CIO but you may all feel more peace of mind if you can find other alternatives.

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#19 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 11:44 AM
 
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baby's brain. AHA!!!! so that is what is at the base of your concerns. THIS is what is your underlying worry is. an hour of crying a day affect the brain? so every time you are in the car you hold yourself responsible for how it might affect your baby's brain. i dont know.i am not a scientist. i have read and studied some of what our species survival tactics are, but lets try to think of this logically shall we? is this what you have read in your research for CIO and its worrying you that it might forever scar your child? I think the human baby is meant to have such a intense helpless cry so that no one can ignore them. i think crying by yourself in a locked room - yes its bad. because with that crying also comes feelings of abandonment and rejection. but with loving people around the baby i dont think it makes them feel that abandoned. if that is your concern then perhaps a half hour crying then a 10 minute break and then another half hour crying would be good wouldnt it? instead of a continuous focused one hour crying getting the blood pressure up and all that?

 

mama mothers with colicky babies and high needs baby they deal with HOURS of intense crying where the baby is RED, throwing up and then cant calm down - as the mamas try to find something to calm their babies down. there are many mamas on this board with children like them. has that affected them. speaking for myself i can say perhaps it might make them clingy? so they need to hold your skirt tales a little bit more? nothing else has particularly stood out for my child.  

 

if you are looking at the development of man look at how crying changes at 3 months or so. you get that sad face, lips upturned totally pull at your heartstrings look your baby gets. i think that's our species survival mode because perhaps the screaming now frustrates our parents so they now have to think of other ways to be taken care of. amazing isnt it?!!!
 

i did not mean to offend those of you who have suffered from PPD. it was not a insensitive comment. there are two forms of depression (i am not sure exactly what they are called). the need medicine kind of depression where there is no avoiding it. and then there is the circumstantial depression where your situation is making you depressed and if you keep giving in it does turn into the need medicine kind of depression. when you have PPD you dont have a choice. when you have the circumstantial type you absolutely have a choice - of falling into the abyss or always pushing it away. 

 

i was in the circumstantial one. and so i had a choice of pushing it away. because i had no, nada, zilch support. dh was overwhelmed with a baby and he wanted out. it was a matter of when. to deal with his feelings he was already emotionally abusing me and seeing other people. i knew i was on my own. completely. and the only thing this screaming HNs baby had was me. so no i could not giving into the depression i was already in and let it get deeper. 

 

thank you coffeegirl. it wasnt meant to be. 

This is still ridiculously offensive. DEPRESSION IS NOT A CHOICE. I mean, really? I don't even know what to say to that. It's also in NO WAY helpful to a mother who is clearly torn up over hearing her baby cry.

Anyhow, to the OP - I had a car screaming baby, too, and it really was awful. I was lucky in that he was my first, so I didn't have to be driving older kids around. I avoided driving as much as I could, but I know that's harder when you have older kids. Is he still in a bucket seat? Some babies do a lot better in a convertible - the shape is different, they can see more, etc. That didn't help mine, but I've heard a lot of others say it has helped them, so that might be a good place to start. Talking to him, singing to him, putting on music that YOU like to help you stay calm, etc. If you think the DVD player would help, I don't think there's any shame in using that tool. In the end, though, you're not going to be doing your baby harm by attending to the needs of your other child by getting him to camp. I completely understand why you get stressed by it - we're supposed to get stressed out and frantic to help our babies when they cry. But your baby is not going to get brain damage from crying in the car. Your baby won't feel abandoned - you're right there talking to him, singing to him, comforting him, etc. There's a huge difference between this and leaving a three month old to cry in the dark alone because you decided it's bed time, you know?
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#20 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meemee View Post

baby's brain. AHA!!!! so that is what is at the base of your concerns. THIS is what is your underlying worry is. an hour of crying a day affect the brain? so every time you are in the car you hold yourself responsible for how it might affect your baby's brain. i dont know.i am not a scientist. i have read and studied some of what our species survival tactics are, but lets try to think of this logically shall we? is this what you have read in your research for CIO and its worrying you that it might forever scar your child? I think the human baby is meant to have such a intense helpless cry so that no one can ignore them. i think crying by yourself in a locked room - yes its bad. because with that crying also comes feelings of abandonment and rejection. but with loving people around the baby i dont think it makes them feel that abandoned. if that is your concern then perhaps a half hour crying then a 10 minute break and then another half hour crying would be good wouldnt it? instead of a continuous focused one hour crying getting the blood pressure up and all that?

 

mama mothers with colicky babies and high needs baby they deal with HOURS of intense crying where the baby is RED, throwing up and then cant calm down - as the mamas try to find something to calm their babies down. there are many mamas on this board with children like them. has that affected them. speaking for myself i can say perhaps it might make them clingy? so they need to hold your skirt tales a little bit more? nothing else has particularly stood out for my child.  

 

if you are looking at the development of man look at how crying changes at 3 months or so. you get that sad face, lips upturned totally pull at your heartstrings look your baby gets. i think that's our species survival mode because perhaps the screaming now frustrates our parents so they now have to think of other ways to be taken care of. amazing isnt it?!!!
 

i did not mean to offend those of you who have suffered from PPD. it was not a insensitive comment. there are two forms of depression (i am not sure exactly what they are called). the need medicine kind of depression where there is no avoiding it. and then there is the circumstantial depression where your situation is making you depressed and if you keep giving in it does turn into the need medicine kind of depression. when you have PPD you dont have a choice. when you have the circumstantial type you absolutely have a choice - of falling into the abyss or always pushing it away. 

 

i was in the circumstantial one. and so i had a choice of pushing it away. because i had no, nada, zilch support. dh was overwhelmed with a baby and he wanted out. it was a matter of when. to deal with his feelings he was already emotionally abusing me and seeing other people. i knew i was on my own. completely. and the only thing this screaming HNs baby had was me. so no i could not giving into the depression i was already in and let it get deeper. 

 

thank you coffeegirl. it wasnt meant to be. 


Good points about the different kinds of crying and the circumstances surrounding them, and the mama's intent being important. In any case I have never bought the "crying will give your baby brain damage" thing.

 

But about the two different kinds of depresison you're talking about....in light of that, and the "I didn't have the freedom to be depressed" comment (which I missed on my first reading), I do think the sentiment is somewhat insensitive, although I believe you don't mean it to be. Maybe there are two, or more, kinds of being depressed for new mothes. But lay people, espeically new moms who are stressed and sleep-deprived, aren't really qualified to tell whether the depression they're feeling is the circumstantial kind that they have a "choice" about, or the more valid (?) chemical-inbalance kind that they don't. I think PPD is usually a combo of both. Part of the disease is that when you're under that rock, you can't see a way to get out. Even if it might seem clear to others. You kwim?


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#21 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 01:02 PM
 
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My son had this exact issue, and it about drove me insane. I totally understand how you feel. My son is 7 months old now and totally fine in the car, but for about 3.5 months he would SCREAM anytime he had to ride anywhere. Is your baby in a bucket seat? For us, changing from the bucket to a convertible seat made all the difference--I guess the angle in the bucket was uncomfortable.


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#22 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 01:11 PM
 
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OH how I remember those days. DD hated the car so much. Obviously we minimized trips and tried to have someone sit back there with her. Sometimes you just have to go though. It got a lot better when we switched DD to a convertible seat. The infant bucket was just awful. It also got better when we started giving her snacks. I know that doesn't help with an itsy bitsy baby, but it will gt better eventually.

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#23 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 01:24 PM
 
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My older son was like that. Hated car rides. It turns out that he gets carsick easily, and he's normally anxious when he can't see mom/dad. So rearfacing exacerbated the issue.

 

A baby's cry is supposed to elicit that reaction from you. It's a survival of the species thing. At 3 weeks old, you baby is also really young. He doesn't know/doesn't have the ability to understand that hearing your voice=you being there.When he's older, around 6ish months, he gains that knowledge that even though he can't see you, you are still there. At that stage, singing to him will help, at least it did with me.

 

 

I don't view it as CIO because your baby is not alone. He is with you, his brother, and not in some room alone in the dark. My son would scream his head off just like your lo is, and he is an incredibly bright almost-4 year old. Always has been. The crying did not damage him.

 

To the PP who talked about PPD being something she didn't have the 'luxury' of having...I cannot say what I really want to say to you, because it would be a UAV. However, the 20-30% of postpartum women who have it (btw, this is JUST the reported number, the real number is higher) would love to know this. In fact, I would have loved to know this. I mean, intrusive thoughts, suicidal thoughts, the constant panic attacks, high anxiety, inability to eat/sleep, sure was fun! In fact, so fun I wish every mom had the luxury of going through it!!! eyesroll.gif

 

To the OP, it is too early to know if you even have PPD. And please ignore everything that the above mentioned poster has told you. It's insensitive and unhelpful AND untrue. Women who see their babies crying with colic, chemo etc are feeling just as horrible as you are. Jeez, like now there's supposed to be some continuum of feelings we are supposed to feel based on others' reactions to it. The fact that you are reacting strongly to his cries shows how in-tune of a mother you are. You are very connected to him. If it didn't bother you at all, I'd be very worried about the level of attachment you have to him.

 

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This too shall pass. And it WILL get better. How many teenagers do you see screaming during an entire car ride?lol.gif

 

Ami

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#24 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 02:43 PM
 
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I am so, so sorry!  It is just awful.  My daughter was the same way, and it just... I pulled over a few times and held her and cried with her, but I don't know how helpful that is.  It's just horrible.  Of course you are upset! 

 

Do you think that even the Big Evil TV, just for trips, might work? 

 

I don't know if it would have with my daughter, but I kinda wish I'd tried it a bit sooner!  ANYTHING!  Just for in the car so they aren't screaming.  Big hugs to you and hang in there!

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#25 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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OP, I can relate. My DS went through a phase where he hated the car, especially if we drove in the dark. I remember dreading having to get in the car to go somewhere. I generally tried singing or talking to him during the car ride so that he knew I was near, although it didn't really calm him. I did not think we were CIO though. Sometimes a baby cannot have his needs met right away and they have to wait, and it's ok, especially if you can talk to him. I think I was more emotionally scared by the process than DS was, even after he stopped being upset in the car I dreaded it for a while, but he did grow out of it after a few months. It WILL get better.
DS's car hating period lasted a few months (I think from between 2 and 5 months mostly)
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#26 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 05:10 PM
 
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I'm sorry mama, I know it's hard to listen to your baby scream and feel like you can't do anything to help them. a couple of thing that could help that haven't been suggested: a pacifier for in the car, a special car toy or lovely (right now my 3 month old likes to be able to hold onto a receiving blanket), my little guy likes the windows down, DD had a stuffed dog that sat on the seat back for her to talk to. he could also be getting a little carsick, maybe some of the colic relief remedies could help with that?


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#27 of 154 Old 07-10-2011, 06:53 PM
 
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You are empathic and your connection to your baby is extremely strong.  This is a VERY GOOD thing!!

 

My DS hated the car from the very beginning.  We never had him in the infant seat outside of the car and people would tell me that was the problem, that I had to train him in the house.  I would politely nod, but I was NOT okay with doing that. 

 

I'd say his anxiety peaked around 6 mo. and has gradually become better since then.  I think it did help that we switched him to a convertible car seat that looks much more comfortable.  Also, our pediatrician said it was okay to switch him to FF at 12 mo since he's extremely tall (of course, most parents should be encouraged to keep babies RF as long as possible!)  He likes to see where we're going, but even at 16 mo, he needs me in the back for long car trips and will only fall asleep without crying if I sit back there and nurse him while my husband drives.  You need a certain anatomy and flexibility to do this wink1.gif

 

I remember feeling truly sick when my son would cry back there as an infant.  I knew that it was not natural for a baby to move this fast backwards!  And it made me feel worse knowing that I could fix it in an instant by getting him out, or by avoiding car trips period.  Again, I think it's very good that you empathize with your baby as well, that you feel what he may be feeling.  Stay open and sensitive.  As my DS's anxiety lessened and as I could see that he was starting to understand more, I was able to tolerate it more.  I don't think I "toughened up", but rather, I was still empathizing and could see that there was a little bit more curiosity about the world from his side and he wasn't as confused.  Now I feel for you! You will both get through this!  Take care...

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#28 of 154 Old 07-14-2011, 11:42 PM
 
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CIO is an intentional attempt to teach a baby to get used to not having cries responded to. A baby crying in the car is an unfortunate example of how babies are not always going to be happy, but it isn't something you're doing intentionally to teach him anything. You are trying to minimize it when you can. Babies even cry in arms a lot, and that isn't CIO despite how awful they feel when crying. The fact is that babies are human and have the same range of emotions of all humans, but have fewer ways to express their emotions so much comes out in cries. Respond as much as you are able, but unfortunately there will be times he will cry despite your best efforts, and there's no point in feeling so awful about it if it's outside of your control. Just do your best and try to be at peace with those things beyond you.


I absolutely positively agree.

 

At this point (DS is 7) I can't remember when the car-crying stopped (could have been around 4 months when he outgrew his Snugride by height and went into the Roundabout, but I can't be sure), but for what FELT like 18 million years he would cry in the car.  I would sing and talk and laugh and sometimes cry with him, and then would start singing again...  When I could, I would somehow reach my arm back there and touch his head, or his hand if he would put his hand up for me.  That was not easy, as we had a stickshift then.  (he still likes it when I hold his hand while I drive) 

 

He also would cry and cry sometimes in our arms.  No solid reason.  No colic, no belly problems, nothing sticking him clothing-wise, dry dipe, no rashes, full but not too full belly...it was like the weight of the world hit his wee shoulders sometimes and he would just sob...  What to do but to hold him? 

 

Babies dealing with true CIO don't have someone singing to them, holding them, talking to them, etc etc.  They are *alone*.  There's a huge difference.

 

In all likelihood this will change, and someday you'll forget when it happened exactly...

 

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#29 of 154 Old 07-15-2011, 12:08 PM
 
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I agree with pp that have congratulated you on your connection to you LO...

 

Both my DSs hated the car when they were tiny, but DS1 had an extreme response.  A panicked, shrieking, throw-up on himself response that was very different than the kind of crying he did (often, he was very intense) in arms.  I DO think it's a different experience to cry while being held, than crying while strapped into a hard, plastic device, not being able to feel or see your mama.  Even if you can hear her calming voice, you can't really touch her.  Is it CIO?  I understand previous posts that emphasize the difference in intention from the perspective of the parents, but how different does it feel to that tiny baby? 

 

I don't really have an answer...but I couldn't stand listening to my DS's screams, so I changed the way we lived.  If it was so painful for me to listen to him, how painful must it have been for him to experience?  We stopped driving places, walked everywhere (they both loved being walked carried close to me).  When I had to drive somewhere, I got someone else to drive and I sat in the back & nursed my LO's (which helped immensely).  I wore my baby & grocery shopped with a cart.  If we were traveling any distance, we did it at night, after I nursed the baby to sleep.  That meant that DS1 had to trek to school and back on the train and bus for a year, and that we missed some trips to the beach & woods...but in the grand scheme of things those tender early times are such a very short time.  Did we miss anything by bypassing our car?  Just alot of discomfort.  I offer you the suggestion of skipping camp this year, or arrange for rides for your older child.  Keep closer to home.  Find ways to avoid the car as much as possible.  Your baby, and your own feelings, are telling you something.  Give yourself permission to listen. 

 

 

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#30 of 154 Old 07-15-2011, 06:31 PM
 
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My almost 6 month old does well in the car sometimes, and then other times, nothing makes her happy, even if an adult sits where she can see them and where they can touch her.  There have been times where she has screamed for 45 minutes straight (with me sitting in the car within sight of her and stroking her legs and arms).  We talk to her, touch her if we can, sing her songs, etc.

 

But we noticed a couple of things about this.  The first is that if we pull over, whether I am the driver or not, and I try to nurse her, she's not interested.  She stops crying as soon as she gets out of the carseat but is immediately smiling and cooing at us.  Same thing when the trip is over, whether it's been 10 minutes of screaming or 30.  As soon as she is out of the seat, she's completely calm and smiling, and sometimes there are not tears.  I think most of the time when it happens, she's just ticked about being in there and is voicing her displeasure.

 

It has stressed me out and has occasionally reduced me to tears, and I don't know why sometimes she's fine and sleeps or plays with her toys and while sometimes she seems completely inconsolable, but we do what we can to reduce the instances and to make her feel better, but, in general, we just go about our daily lives and hope she'll grow out of it.

 

Although cute story.  The other day she was screaming and had been screaming for about 10 minutes.  I could hear my 2.5 year old say to her "It's ok baby, it's ok, I promise", and when that didn't work, my toddler said to me "Mommy, she needs a boob".  

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