Mothering Forum banner

thinking to set up a meeting with the girl who is a 'bad friend' to DD and her mom...good idea? bad idea? what to do?

1K views 14 replies 12 participants last post by  NiteNicole 
#1 ·
So here's the background.

We live next door, no fence in between the yards. "Bonnie," the mom has 5 kids living with her, ages 16 to 6. She is a hardworking mom, with DH not helping out much, and she often babysits too, so she has an extra kid in the mix. The kids are very outdorsy, and are outside all the time, when they are home. They are mostly home.

J is 10, a year older than DD9. We've been here for just over a year.

DD is very social and likes to have an easily available playmate, but the dynamics have been getting compliated.

J tends to be controlling and manipulative. She hasn't forced DD into anything bad or dangerous, but they do what J wants. Most of the time it corresponds to what DD wants too, and things are fine, but when it doesn't, J wouldn't let go. If DD is reluctant, J just whines and goes home. On the other hand, DD feels guilty going home when the activity is not what she wants to do. She doesn't want to hurt J's feelings.

J has called her names, 'cry baby' and 'loser'. She is trying to control who DD plays with.

When the girls had a minor disagreement over dandelion vs. colt's foot, J didn't speak to DD for two weeks. Glared at her every time she saw her, and tried to make other kids not to play with DD.

J is difficult even for me to handle. When I didn't allow DD to go to a day trip with J's family, J grabbed me by my waist, and kept on whining and begging, despite me asserting myself and telling her to stop.At first it looked like she was being playful, and I played along, but my initial playful / gentle requests to stop were ignored. When I used a firmer, very serious tone, she didn't let me go, until I forcefully removed her, and it wasn't easy! This is just to illustrate, that a simple 'No, thank you," does not work with her. She persists and persists. Then she pouts, often for days, afterwards.

She called me 'mean mommy' to my face, but also, seemingly joking, so my response was also playful, something like, 'What do you know, I'm not your mommy,' but this behaviour is pretty alien to me.

J has issues with boundaries--even after I explained to her that she can't know on our door when the curtains are drawn, she still does, often waking someone, as our sleeping hours are different from hers.

DD has admitted that she can't trust J with her emotions, and she hopes they end up good playmates, but not necessarily close friends.

DD and I read some books on bullying yesterday, and one, Confessions of a Former Bully, really spoke to her. But she feels she wants to help J. She feels that J is probably bullied at school (her nickname there is 'bossy'), and that her 12 yo sister bosses her around, and that's why J is like this. DD is compassionate towards J, because they ARE similar--both very sensitive, both take a long time to get over things. The difference is that DD is really trying to be a good friend, and is understanding and supportive, while J is more controlling and manipulative. DD wishes J had a nice councellor to talk to, like the girl in the book.

When J was not speaking to DD, other than telling her that she wants her to feel 'bad for what she's done', I tried to talk to the mom, Bonnie. Bonnie just gives me canned replies, like kids will be kids, and both girls want to be the leader, etc, and wasn't concerned at all. I can't talk to her--she always has a response to everything, but it is not really a response, and I get lost. Bonnie seems respectful to her kids, doesn't spank, doesn't yell, but she has this fed-up, matter of fact attitude.

DH thinks that maybe he could talk to Bonnie (he thinks really well on his feet). His idea is to arrange a meeting for both girls and the parents, and maybe read that book together (The Confessions of a Former Bully). It is short, and has a great approach, without blaming anyone; it also offers solutions. He thinks that if it is all in the open, it will be easier for DD to call J on her behaviour, and remove herself from the situation.

And these are complications:

DS6 wants to sometimes play with the 6yo twins.

DD is always eager to play with J, when she calls.

There's no fence.

The neighbours' parents are never out when the kids are out, and often aren't even at home.

My mama bear instinct is to build a 9 feet tall privacy fence and a gate
redface.gif
. We can't really afford it, and I'm not sure it will help the situation.

I'd like to hear more thoughts on how to have a meeting like this. How to talk to Bonnnie about it, and how to talk to J as well, so it ends up being a productive, supportive meeting.

It the above is a bad idea, what is a good one?

Thanks...
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
This is similar to the dynamic between my 7 y.o DD and the 10 y.o girl I watch after school. I keep a close ear out and when I hear the other girl persisting after DD has said no and asserted herself clearly, I step in and tell her "DD doesn't want to play that right now, it's time to stop asking." and after that "We need to be respectful of each other, each of us decides what to do with ourselves. DD has said no, leave her be." If she continues beyond a few warnings, I separate them.
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mummoth View Post

This is similar to the dynamic between my 7 y.o DD and the 10 y.o girl I watch after school. I keep a close ear out and when I hear the other girl persisting after DD has said no and asserted herself clearly, I step in and tell her "DD doesn't want to play that right now, it's time to stop asking." and after that "We need to be respectful of each other, each of us decides what to do with ourselves. DD has said no, leave her be." If she continues beyond a few warnings, I separate them.
How does your DD feel about being separated?

I'm worried that mine prefers the 'bad company' to no company...I also can't supervise that closely--the girls want to be out and about, around our yards, in their fort and so on. They certainly don't want me (and my other kids, by default) to hang out with them. I tried taking J with us to Chapters, thinking the girls could talk, and I'd be more available, but J pouted the entire time and found Chapters boring. My kids love it there...
 
#4 ·
DD is usually fed up with being harassed at the point that I step in, so she doesn't mind being separated. It doesn't need to be long, 5 minutes or so does it. I understand not being able to be there for every moment... do you think setting a limit on their play time together would help? Learning to be assertive is really difficult... a lot of adults have trouble with it. Reading the books on bullying is a good idea, but DD might need a bit of hands-on support, even just in the short term. I don't think it'd be out of line to let the other girl know that you are limiting their interaction to times when you can watch them closely because you've noticed they have trouble cooperating on their own.
 
#5 ·
Not every kid has to be best friends, good friends or even like the kid(s) who live next door. Its ok if the other siblings get along with the neighbors and one or two don't. So if your DD and this other girl just don't mesh for whatever reason, no harm, no foul. I would just start your DD looking for other playmates and stand firm that this child can not come over and play, and keep the boundries for this one kiddo. If the other kids want to play fine, if they want to play in a group outside fine, but 1:1 inside this neighbor girl needs limits and she needs to be kept out for now.

IMO the mom next door doesn't want to be involved so trying to arrange something with both girls, the parents and a book is just overkill now.
 
#6 ·
i am not sure an intervention with the parents will work. they are going to have a different point of view.

i think you can work on the dynamics in a small, short way. i would not involve the parents. basically you will be pointing out all teh faults of J and i doubt they are going to like it. you are essentially calling their dd a bully - i dont think its going to go down well.

in a large family i would imagine J has had to be manipulative to get her way or just to be heard. she has to be tenacious.

i think your dd is just AWESOME to be able to relate to J so well and be so compassionate and understanding.

when J uses names your dd can say something like 'those are not kind words. i dont like hearing them. i will not play with you when you use them.' or if you hear J use them then you can step in and say the same.

i would implement your rules in your house and hold J responsible for them too. since she has such a hard time with boundaries - i would make sure you for sure define the boundaries.

the good news is your dd is trying to work this out. she is not becoming as badly behaved as they other girl. if she was then you could call the other girl bad company.

if i remember 10 is a hard age on kids. esp. girls. i've heard 10 to be described as 'tween angst' stage. extremely emotional. what i am saying here life might be hard for J and now at 10 it is harder. i see dd almost 9 sometimes being a bear and not realising she is being rude to other kids.

the pouting and holding grudges i have seen amongst 10 year olds too.

this reminds me of myself coz i started my periods at almost 11. so the year before was hard. i remember being v. angry.

i would definitely set up boundaries in your house. if you consider her behaviour rude, call her on it. hold her to the same rules you hold your kids.

if J is being rude adn dd doesnt want to play with her she should say so and not interact with J.

i think this will help J immensely. i think ur dd is on the right track about what might be going on with J.

if she wishes to continue with her friendship i think she has what it takes to deal with J.

dd's eureka moment with bullies came with Bridge to Terabithia. it really changed her life. she always looked for the reason for their behaviour. some she couldnt do anything so stayed far away from. some she learnt how to talk to them and ignore their words or turn it into something positive and become friends with them. my role has been to show dd different perspectives of what perhaps made the bully in the first place and seh has always been able to work it out.

we have a teenager who comes over sometimes. bad news. finally after making many excuses and even asking me to make some excuses on her behalf dd finally built up the courage to say she does not want to play with her any longer. the girl lives two houses away from us so not quite next door but she is always outside so we run into her all the time. we say hi and are polite to her but never invite her in and neither does she ring our doorbell anymore.
 
#7 ·
I think this might be a situation where your dd can learn a lot about self-respect and healthy boundaries. It sounds like she feels badly for her friend/playmate, but that further to that she feels a sense of guilt and responsibility for taking care of that friend. Sympathy and compassion are valuable and important, however it is not healthy to disregard one's own needs most of the time in the pursuit of saving someone else's feelings. It sounds like you need to intervene, but I think the most important intervention is with your own child.
 
#8 ·
I think I'd stay away from the family intervention too. I can't imagine it going very well.

Would J like to read books with you? Would reading a few books (one of which is the one you mentioned) together with your DD and her, and having a talk over lemonade or something be doable?

Tjej
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguine_speed View Post

I think this might be a situation where your dd can learn a lot about self-respect and healthy boundaries. It sounds like she feels badly for her friend/playmate, but that further to that she feels a sense of guilt and responsibility for taking care of that friend. Sympathy and compassion are valuable and important, however it is not healthy to disregard one's own needs most of the time in the pursuit of saving someone else's feelings. It sounds like you need to intervene, but I think the most important intervention is with your own child.
I couldn't agree with this more.
 
#10 ·
nod.gif
Most definitely. This is the time for you to intervene with your DD and teach her how to stand up for herself. How else will she learn? I try to stay out of kid business unless someone is really hurting someone else. That way my DD (age 9) learns to navigate her relationships herself. For example, the other day her friend was over and started bossing her around. DD asked her to leave, and her friend did. I was so proud of her.

quote name="sanguine_speed" url="/community/forum/thread/1323469/thinking-to-set-up-a-meeting-with-the-girl-who-is-a-bad-friend-to-dd-and-her-mom-good-idea-bad-idea-what-to-do#post_16578237"]

I think this might be a situation where your dd can learn a lot about self-respect and healthy boundaries. It sounds like she feels badly for her friend/playmate, but that further to that she feels a sense of guilt and responsibility for taking care of that friend. Sympathy and compassion are valuable and important, however it is not healthy to disregard one's own needs most of the time in the pursuit of saving someone else's feelings. It sounds like you need to intervene, but I think the most important intervention is with your own child.

[/quote]
 
#11 ·
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts! You are right, a joint meeting is unlikely to go well.

DD is doing awesome with discussing her possible strategies with me, and she doesn't seem to be oppressed by the situation. It is a lot for her to process. Meanwhile I will try to have my kids out of the house more, so that they have a bit of a break from the neighbours.
 
#12 ·
WOW! I just came onto the forums after being away for a super long time, to post and seek advice on an almost identical issue. This is wild! I guess I'll be seeking some further resources on helping my DD stand up for herself, and fight the urge to march over to the neighbor's house and knock both the kid's and the mom's skulls!
 
#13 ·
I think a lot of us can relate to this story. We did have a similar situation. With two different girls. It made me wonder if maybe we as parents were over sensitive since it happened twice with two different neighbor girls. However we were alway having to field complaints from our girls about it. They didn't like the way the other girls were talking to them or treating them and when I saw it first hand I was overwhelmed by it.

We've always told the girls that if someone can't be a good friend no matter how hard you've tried to be a good friend than they don't deserve your friendship. You don't have to be friends with everyone and you don't have to put up with negative people. I'm always outside with my girls and have a good idea on what's going on. I send kids home all the time. If you don't listen to me and your parents are not watching you. You gotta go. If you're being exclusive and treating others poorly, you gotta go. You may come back and play when you realize we won't put up with it. For some reason my yard is the place to be.

If the parents are not listening to you, then you take charge of your space. If she's at your door at a time you've told her she can't be then you answer it and you tell her she needs to leave until you open your shades. If you have to put a note on your door. When she's in your space consider her actions your responsibility. Don't put up with her negativity and give your daughter to tools to combat the bullying. Help her realize she's hurting herself by letting this other girl control her.

Since empowering our girls to understand that some people are just not kind and sometimes you just have to move on you can tell a huge difference in how the other girls act. They also know that this Mama Bear will not put up with their behavior and will send them home and even call their moms and tell them why. So things have changed quite a bit. They may not be friends at school but they're playmates on the home front and are all learning how to respect each other.

Heres another thing. When calling parents to tell them you're sending their kid home. Always tell them what they did. So and so was swearing or being overly aggressive and since they are not your kid your only resort is to send them home. If the parent has a problem with it then they can get their happy butts outside and watch their kids!
 
#14 ·
I don't think a family meeting would go well, either. I agree that it sounds like they have a very different POV.

What you can do:

-Give your DD some good responses to being called a crybaby or loser.

-Assure her that it is always ok to just say "I'm not having fun now, I think I'll go back home." if she is uncomfortable.

-Talk to her about how a good friend acts. If she has other friends that are better friends, point out how much more fun it is to play with someone who compromises and listens. Let her know she is not at fault.

-Give her lots alternatives. Set up playdates with kids who do play nicely. It's tough to limit time with the kid in front of her if you don't have another attractive option ready. Perhaps some regular after school activities.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguine_speed View Post

I think this might be a situation where your dd can learn a lot about self-respect and healthy boundaries. It sounds like she feels badly for her friend/playmate, but that further to that she feels a sense of guilt and responsibility for taking care of that friend. Sympathy and compassion are valuable and important, however it is not healthy to disregard one's own needs most of the time in the pursuit of saving someone else's feelings. It sounds like you need to intervene, but I think the most important intervention is with your own child.
This is really important and I'm so glad someone said it!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top