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Update pg 10. Yay!-The ever-present CPS fears have materialized for us

16K views 191 replies 46 participants last post by  Mom31 
#1 ·
I have never posted in this forum, but most search results for CPS came up in this forum, so here is where I need to ask for advice.

I have 5 children. I stay at home with them/homeschool. I am an incredible advocate of Positive Parenting. We don't hit, "punish", or even yell if I can help it. I don't belittle the kids, use hurtful language, etc., etc. Not trying to brag, but literally everyone that knows us or observes my kids (doctors, dentists, other parents, old friends, etc) says they are exceptional kids and I'm the most patient parent they've even encountered (when I'm well).

That said, my housekeeping skills are not the best, especially when I'm not feeling well, like when I'm pregnant, or dealing with borderline chronic fatigue, as I am now. Therefore, I'm always dealing with a dread of CPS in the back of my brain.

I am back in college after my bachelor's 8 years ago, and the schedule is grueling, so I've not been getting enough sleep. Last week I was putting the baby down and fell asleep. My 4 year old was looking for me and, for reasons we can't figure, my 8 yr old told him I'd walked to the pool (at the leasing office of our complex). He walked alone to the pool. They found him outside the leasing office crying, couldn't remember his last name or where he lived, they called the police. They pulled the files for apartments and looked for his brother's and sister's names and found us. All this happened in a span of about 20 minutes. When they came to the door my mother answered (dh was at work). She thought he'd lain down with me, SURE that he would have NEVER done something like that (I'd have been equally sure of that until that day). She woke me up, I was immediately in shock, shaking and crying all the way to the office to pick him up, get a long VERY judgmental lecture from the leasing office manager, while still crying and got home to quickly clean as much as possible because the police would be there any minute. The police officer warned me she would have to pass this on to CPS. I cried all evening and night, terrified they were going to take my children for neglect, thinking of all the things that could have happened to my baby, etc.

Of course, once CPS is involved the leasing office has all sorts of tales to tell, about complaints from the neighbors (that we've NEVER heard from anyone) about my children playing in the van in the parking lot on a hot summer day (NO WAY! we keep it locked and I routinely tell them that pets and kids die in hot cars), or taking off and wandering the complex on other occasions (NO), the townhome was "disgusting", all blatantly false. There is NO way. This was a completely isolated, totally horrifying event.

Anyway, CPS officer came to the house first thing the next morning. I had read here to never let them in, so I tried to keep her out and stay strong. But she got very angry, said because there was a claim that the house was dirty she HAD to see it. If I didn't let her in she'd HAVE to get a warrant, and if I made her do that it wasn't going to be pretty. So, I caved, crying again, of course. She said the kids looked great, the house was far from disgusting, and the kids gave all the right answers to her questions. No, we never spank them or hit them, no we don't get drunk or use drugs, Yes they feel safe talking to us, etc. She saw no reason for concern, and loved that we'd already installed an alarm that goes off very loudly whenever the door is opened. However, she then ties a few strings.

"While the house certainly isn't disgusting, or even very cluttered for having 5 kids, it isn't really all that clean, either." She asked if I'd like a referral to a local program through some non-gov't group that will come out once a month (or week, can't remember) and help me develop a schedule for cleaning with little ones, etc. She kept stressing that she has no part in it, totally voluntary, etc. Perfectly willing to take all the help anyone is willing to offer, because I do have a lot of children/responsibilities, and because she was not involved, and because I didn't know how it would look if I declined, I said yes. Then she tells me that they send her a report after every visit, "but because the file is closed she won't even look at it, just put it in the file."

Now, on the surface, this seems harmless, but I'm still terrified of CPS. I've now got one half-strike against me. What if they send a bad report? What if I make some kind of mistake again in the future and the reports say I wasn't doing a good enough job? Is this something I need to worry about? I don't want CPS in my life. I want them gone. Forever. Is there a graceful, non-black-mark way to retreat from this? Help.
 
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#27 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

I highly doubt a 200% penalty is legal. Breach of contract is neutral in legal terms, and penalties for breach aren't legal. Keeping a deposit is legal b/c its a liquidated damages thing, but a penalty on top of that is generally not legal.
Oh, they made sure to word it in the lease that it is NOT a penalty, but the reasonable costs for getting the apartment ready to rent again, or some other such nonsense. As if they don't have the same costs if we move out at the end of our lease.
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kittywitty, yes my oldest 2 have been helping with cleaning since they were 4, and now together do as much work as I do. And my 4 yr old is now beginning, as well. He picks up toys and dries dishes. The big cleaning isn't that hard, it's the maintenance that is. Everyone loses their oomph after about a week and the backslide starts. Can't allow that now...

Last week when I was washing the cabinet doors from grody fingerprints I turned around, then turned immediately back around to the cabinets. Literally 1-2 seconds. dd had reached into the bag of baking soda and put 2 new hand prints on the door and a pile of it on the floor. That's honest-to-gosh how EVERY MINUTE of EVERY DAY is here. 1 step forward, 2 steps back with a 2 yr old and 1 yr old. I feel like I have quadruplet toddlers!

Plus, what's considered "appropriately clothed"? It is HARD to keep clothes on my 4 and 2 yr olds at all, and when the 4 yr old complies he's hotter than everyone else, so he'd happily wear shorts inside all year round, and never wear a shirt. Is that acceptable? It was to me, but I don't know about to big brother... Sigh...
 
#28 ·
When she started taking pictures of laundry INSIDE my dryer, I realized that something was wonky. I called the non-emergency number and a couple officers showed up within minutes. The officers called in two more officers as witnesses when they couldn't get through to her- and had one come in who specialized in documentation of crime scenes. I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't been able to obtain help through the police. I had tried to take pictures of her as she was 'documenting' but she took my camera and claimed she was keeping it to make sure there were no pornographic photos of DD on it.

It was also very disturbing that she kept trying to tell my daughter that she would never have to worry about being with her mean mommy again. She was never going to 'let Mommy do mean things to her'. She did opt to take DD with her when she left, and became very angry when an officer followed her and forced her to take her to the safe house instead of this woman's own home.

As I said, this was not a simple CPS investigation, it was an incredibly warped woman who should never have been in the position she was in. Sadly, because of the system, I had to watch her take my child and then I had to fight to get her back. (Which did happen rapidly. I agreed with this woman's boss to sign DD over to kinship care with my parents as the mess was sorted out- mostly to get her out of the immediate area. I had her back within less than 48 hours.) This woman kept working with CPS for over a year after this happened.
 
#29 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post

When she started taking pictures of laundry INSIDE my dryer, I realized that something was wonky. I called the non-emergency number and a couple officers showed up within minutes. The officers called in two more officers as witnesses when they couldn't get through to her- and had one come in who specialized in documentation of crime scenes. I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't been able to obtain help through the police. I had tried to take pictures of her as she was 'documenting' but she took my camera and claimed she was keeping it to make sure there were no pornographic photos of DD on it.

It was also very disturbing that she kept trying to tell my daughter that she would never have to worry about being with her mean mommy again. She was never going to 'let Mommy do mean things to her'. She did opt to take DD with her when she left, and became very angry when an officer followed her and forced her to take her to the safe house instead of this woman's own home.

As I said, this was not a simple CPS investigation, it was an incredibly warped woman who should never have been in the position she was in. Sadly, because of the system, I had to watch her take my child and then I had to fight to get her back. (Which did happen rapidly. I agreed with this woman's boss to sign DD over to kinship care with my parents as the mess was sorted out- mostly to get her out of the immediate area. I had her back within less than 48 hours.) This woman kept working with CPS for over a year after this happened.
OMG!... OMG!
 
#30 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbyraja View Post

Last week when I was washing the cabinet doors from grody fingerprints I turned around, then turned immediately back around to the cabinets. Literally 1-2 seconds. dd had reached into the bag of baking soda and put 2 new hand prints on the door and a pile of it on the floor. That's honest-to-gosh how EVERY MINUTE of EVERY DAY is here. 1 step forward, 2 steps back with a 2 yr old and 1 yr old. I feel like I have quadruplet toddlers!

Plus, what's considered "appropriately clothed"? It is HARD to keep clothes on my 4 and 2 yr olds at all, and when the 4 yr old complies he's hotter than everyone else, so he'd happily wear shorts inside all year round, and never wear a shirt. Is that acceptable? It was to me, but I don't know about to big brother... Sigh...
The first paragraph, yeah, I only have ONE toddler and thats what my days are like. Yay! Do the best you can, enlist the neighbors, friends, family, people from church or school or wherever to help you as much as possible.

Appropriately clothed, well, don't worry about that. If the 4 & 2yo's don't like clothes, keep some clothes handy, and if she shows up act like they JUST took off their clothing and make a fuss about putting it back on. And really, as long as they aren't wearing shorts outside in the snow, who cares. My ds wears shorts in my apartment in the winter b/c its kept so ridiculously HOT in my building that even I don't wear many clothes inside - but we change to go outside b/c its COLD outside. Just be sure to have clothing on hand (I know you do), and offer it to them - its not worth the power struggle to force them to wear clothing, but you also don't want the social worker to think that you don't HAVE appropriate clothing, kwim?

Also, if you are worried about her lying about this stuff, keep a tape recorder handy. In most states its legal to tape record conversations, even if one party doesn't know about it (check the laws just to be sure), and you can tape record the visits.
 
#31 ·
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I can't imagine how scary this is for you.

What sort of support community do you have? I know, for example, that if I called my sister and asked, she would come up and clean for a whole day, as would several friends. 2-4 adults cleaning all day would get my house from cluttered and a bit sticky to showplace worthy. (As did one person cleaning for 5 days -- bless my MIL for doing that when I was in the hospital for 5 days after dd was born). My sister deep cleaned dd's room in 5 hours last week.

Once you're clean, then you spend 20 minutes every day tidying, cleaning the sinks, etc. If you and your husband and your 2 older children each work 15-20 minutes a day, you'll be fine. Even your 4 year old could help. The key is to give the children very specific tasks. When my kids were 4 and 7, I made a 'chore bag' with things as specific as "pick up 20 things in the living room" (so the fact that we HAVE 20 things on the floor in the living room tells you what state we were sometimes in).

Do you have any place you could temporarily store 'stuff'? Your parents' garage? A friend's basement? One way to keep the house cleaner is to get rid of a lot of stuff. Less stuff = less stuff strewn around. If you could pack up a lot of your stuff and take it out, it would look better. Since you're moving, you might set yourself a goal of packing one box a day, and throwing out or donating 1/2 that amount of stuff.

Most of all, keep your cool. Try to refute the allegation that your son was out for 45 minutes.
 
#32 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landover View Post

Not trying to be strange, and I am so sorry to all of the mommas who are dealing with this.... but, why not just keep your house cleaner. *ducking and hiding head* I am not trying to stir up a pot, but if all of this really is scaring you to death isn't easier to clean then live in fear? I have three small kids, I homeschool, I teach online course, and we have two boxers and a cat... my house is mostly clean. At any moment there are dishes in the sick from lunch that I didn't have time to load into the dishwasher, etc... but NOTHING that would ever make me think about CPS! Also, we are all talking about a large sum of money to move. Instead of that, why not hire a cleaning lady to come twice a month instead?

Seriously, not trying to offend anyone, but let's log onto fly lady and get in gear! LOL!
Hmm I think this is a little insensitive. The OP mentioned chronic fatigue & thyroid issues... I deal with this too, though maybe a bit more severe, and honestly I'm functionally disabled. Our house is currently semi-manageable because DH was laid off & spends a lot of time cleaning and helping me declutter, but it would be horrible if someone dropped by unexpectedly and if DH ever finds a job I don't know that I can keep the house in order on my own (I couldn't before) or afford to pay for someone to clean it. I don't know, maybe the OP could keep things cleaner if she made it a priority, but the assumption that everyone can keep a clean house if they'd just log onto flylady is a bit... IDK, hard to hear I guess.
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#33 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landover View Post

Not trying to be strange, and I am so sorry to all of the mommas who are dealing with this.... but, why not just keep your house cleaner. *ducking and hiding head* I am not trying to stir up a pot, but if all of this really is scaring you to death isn't easier to clean then live in fear? I have three small kids, I homeschool, I teach online course, and we have two boxers and a cat... my house is mostly clean. At any moment there are dishes in the sick from lunch that I didn't have time to load into the dishwasher, etc... but NOTHING that would ever make me think about CPS! Also, we are all talking about a large sum of money to move. Instead of that, why not hire a cleaning lady to come twice a month instead?

Seriously, not trying to offend anyone, but let's log onto fly lady and get in gear! LOL!
The caseworker in the OP's story said her house ISN'T "even very cluttered for having 5 kids." Meaning, the house was already CLEANER than you would reasonably expect it to be. There is certainly no freakin' reason she needs to clean it any better than that! We're not talking about filth here, but clutter. Clutter means things like unsorted mail on the table, dishes in the sink waiting to be washed, spice jars left out of the spice rack, toys on the floor, maybe an errant candy wrapper, perhaps a few of the kids' garments didn't quite make it into the hamper... the kind of "mess" that's constantly being produced as a result of living in a house. I really can't imagine anyone keeping the house with five kids clutter-free 24 hours per day without 24 hours of full-time housekeeping, i.e. no less than three live-in maids.
 
#34 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Try to refute the allegation that your son was out for 45 minutes.
The only thing I can't really substantiate it, but I always look at the clock when I take the baby up, so I know if she's been down "long enough" when she wakes up. 11:03. I walked upstairs, peeked into ds's room to see him watching Thomas the Train. Saw he was being quiet, wouldn't wake up the baby, so I didn't disturb him to tell him where I was going (won't ever do that again). Took the baby in and fell asleep. Let's say it took me 2 minutes for all of that. 11:05. Then, if he ran down the stairs and out the door without talking to anyone and ran all the way to the office he could have gotten there in THE SHORTEST 10 minutes, more likely 15-20 (and he talked to people first, too). (he's 4 and not very strong. Takes over 20 minutes to walk there with him) Now it's 11:15 at the earliest. He was found by a neighbor outside the office and brought inside. Then the office says they had to pull files to find his siblings in order to find us and call. I took a pic of my caller id tonight. 11:28. I walked into the office while they had been on the phone with my husband for about 4 minutes, 11:34. I sat there, child in arms, LONG lecture from the manager and back home at 5 minutes 'til noon.

Does that sound like he was in the office unsupervised for 45 minutes?
 
#35 ·
Edited because I didn't want to get off track of the OP's thread by asking about irrelevant issues.

OP - my father has been a landlord for 25 years and they will and do (unfortunately) pursue different claims in small claims court. He has actually never lost a case, so be prepared that you may get sued if you try to just abandon the property without fulfilling the contract. Depending on the landlord they can be very persistent in getting their money.

Super-single mama - my father has won a few cases in small claims and yes, they enforced the contractual obligations of the tenants. I'm sorry to go against what you "learned in law school", but what really matters is the real world experience and this is what has actually happened. Asking for 2 months' rent for breaking a contract is not excessive.
 
#36 ·
gabbyraja, since it's hard to substantiate how long, can you offer character references to the caseworker while your case is open? Where I'm coming from is this:

I've actually been on both sides of the fence, former family support worker but we had a (fortunately short lived ) Children's Aid (we're Canadian) investigation when the kids were small. Like you, we were homeschooling at the time (don't now), so no info from schools. We were in a housing cooperative, my wonderful DH was the stay at home parent. An unfriendly member of the cooperative claimed all three kids were left unattended outdoors for hours (very untrue, our 20 month old was never out of DH's sight, and the older two were, well, older, so at ages 4 and 5 they played outside in the gated back yard quite a lot and were checked on when DH was inside). There was also a complaint about the house being messy (And it was, somewhat. Our five year old was acting out a lot, there were special needs at play, and sometimes cleaning had to take a back burner). Anyhow, the case worker actually asked for character references to help her clear up if the allegations were unfounded. We used a good neighbour (not a best friend or anything, just someone honest) who was able to tell them that she was outside a lot with her toddlers, had never seen our young one unattended, and frequently heard my husband checking in through the window when he was busy with baby inside. The doctor (where we live contacting the family doctor is required during an investigation) also had good things to say, so that helped.

While enlisting whatever cleaning help you can, you may also want to bring up with the caseworker that with a two year old and a baby, your top priority is their care and supervision, and that you keep up with the cleaning as best you can when it is safe to do so. When I worked with parents who were gaining skills to regain custody of their kids after apprehension, they were taught to prioritize: 1)Children are safe and supervised. 2)Children have care and comfort (like, if your child is crying because she hurt her knee, you don't say,"Later, honey, I'm doing dishes", and yes, some people do these things) 3)Children are adequately stimulated (very small requirement, this is in line with at least talk to your child and don't leave them alone with the TV all day THEN you get into cleaning 4) Clutter is under control (This comes before cleaning because it overlaps with the number 1 requirement for safety. People can trip over clutter, it's a fire hazard, and it can block safe exits from the house), and especially the exits to the home must be unblocked. 5)Lastly cleaning, especially the kitchen and the bathroom because these areas can lead to infections and illnesses if they aren't maintained.

Be as clean as you can, and cooperate as much as possible, but if you have the odd bad day and the caseworker shows up, I would word it like, "My two year old has been so active, today! I've been really busy keeping up with him, so I'll have to finish this (whatever the cleaning project is) when he sleeps or when my husband gets home". It sounds like your home is reasonably clean, and better than they expected for the number of kids, so (if you can, I know it's scary!)instead of panicking if they come in and it's not as tidy a day, focus on framing it to show the reality (busy, dedicated mom of 5 who isn't a superhuman!)
 
#37 ·
I am thinking all sorts of evil things about the leasing office......

In any event, I would call the leasing office's managers and report them for lying. I might even threaten to sue them for libel or slander. I would not be a happy camper and I would not let this slide without at minimum a complaint. Complaining to a governmental rental tribunal may also occur.

Here is a link to Michigan rental agreements and the law. Hopefully some of it useful. Did you sign a contract agreeing to the 200% (!!!!) cleaning fee? It seems very large to me, and it is fishy that only people who break the lease have to pay it.

http://www.michigantenants.org/resourcelib#eviction
 
#38 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbyraja View Post

The only thing I can't really substantiate it, but I always look at the clock when I take the baby up, so I know if she's been down "long enough" when she wakes up. 11:03. I walked upstairs, peeked into ds's room to see him watching Thomas the Train. Saw he was being quiet, wouldn't wake up the baby, so I didn't disturb him to tell him where I was going (won't ever do that again). Took the baby in and fell asleep. Let's say it took me 2 minutes for all of that. 11:05. Then, if he ran down the stairs and out the door without talking to anyone and ran all the way to the office he could have gotten there in THE SHORTEST 10 minutes, more likely 15-20 (and he talked to people first, too). (he's 4 and not very strong. Takes over 20 minutes to walk there with him) Now it's 11:15 at the earliest. He was found by a neighbor outside the office and brought inside. Then the office says they had to pull files to find his siblings in order to find us and call. I took a pic of my caller id tonight. 11:28. I walked into the office while they had been on the phone with my husband for about 4 minutes, 11:34. I sat there, child in arms, LONG lecture from the manager and back home at 5 minutes 'til noon.

Does that sound like he was in the office unsupervised for 45 minutes?
CPS has to CYA too (you know, cover their booty so that if there is a dangerous situation, that they have offered appropriate services), which is probably why they reopened your case, since obviously the caseworker wasn't concerned enough to keep it open in the first place. Practically every time a CPS case is in the media with a terrible outcome (ie. child killed by parents/foster parents), there was prior CPS involvement and the social worker dropped the ball on monitoring the family and offering them appropriate services. Some counties are bigger into the CYA game than others, and it sounds like your county might be one of them. That does not mean they are more likely to take your kids from you. It just means they are more concerned about making sure there is not an issue going on.

In terms of supervision, I would go buy some of those door knob covers that keep kids from getting out, and duct tape them together so your kids can't break them open. If that doesn't work, stores sell little alarms you can screw into the top of the door. That should make your worker happy. As far as clothes, social workers are parents too. My three year old rarely has clothes on. Most kids go through that, and most social workers know that. As long as you have clean clothes in your home for your child, that should not be an issue.

Insidevoice's story is awful (and I am really sorry that happened to you IV), but that sort of thing is extremely extremely rare. The fact that your worker closed your case initially is a very strong indication that she is not some nut on a power trip. Re-opening your case is very likely her just covering her bases for the "what-ifs". Remember she doesn't know you and doesn't know your leasing office is lying. All she knows is that if something happens to your kids, she's going to be screwed. If she keeps your case open for three months and the ongoing worker can document that there is nothing wild going on in your home, they can close the case and say they did their job, which they will have. Were you to turn out to be one of the families who really was neglecting and abusing their kids (and I know you are definitely not), and something happened to your kids, they would at least have documentation that they did what they could. Breathe, mama, breathe. Your worker sounds really reasonable. I think this will all be behindy you soon.
 
#39 ·
200% of the rent=2 months rent, its written into the lease and it stands up in court. Its not considered breaking the lease though, its an early termination option.
 
#41 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

Insidevoice's story is awful (and I am really sorry that happened to you IV), but that sort of thing is extremely extremely rare. The fact that your worker closed your case initially is a very strong indication that she is not some nut on a power trip. Re-opening your case is very likely her just covering her bases for the "what-ifs". Remember she doesn't know you and doesn't know your leasing office is lying. All she knows is that if something happens to your kids, she's going to be screwed. If she keeps your case open for three months and the ongoing worker can document that there is nothing wild going on in your home, they can close the case and say they did their job, which they will have. Were you to turn out to be one of the families who really was neglecting and abusing their kids (and I know you are definitely not), and something happened to your kids, they would at least have documentation that they did what they could. Breathe, mama, breathe. Your worker sounds really reasonable. I think this will all be behindy you soon.
I absolutely agree with this. It really does sound likt the person you are working with is being very reasonable. I have a great deal of anger around a system that doesn't have as many checks and balances for situations like I was in as I feel it should, but then, you can't plan for someone being truly insane as happened in my case. Still, I did ultimately 'win' and I did jump through any hoop asked of me to do so. The vast majority of people who go into working for CPS aren't power-hungry judgmental monsters. They really just want to keep kids safe and get as frustrated by all the red tape as anyone else.
 
#42 ·
Does anyone have ideas for me on how to reduce the stress on the kids? Obviously the old standby of keeping their routine as normal as possible and give them lots of love, like when having a new baby. But, they're terrified that CPS is going to take them away. My 8 yr old is having nightmares after months nightmare-free. My 9 yr old is scared. My 4 yr old is in our bed every night, and asks about CPS, and doesn't want them to come here. I can't lie to them and tell them there's no way that will happen. If it did, and I'd lied, they would be devastated. And when they ask WHY we're making them keep clothes on all the time, or whatever, I have to be honest and say because CPS makes us or whatever.

So, I can tell them that we're doing everything we can to make sure it doesn't. Those are words. But, I'm now able to spend less leisure/fun time with them because I'm cleaning, and looking for a house, and working on credit and a mortgage, etc. I can't take them to the park every day, can't spend time with them outside (I won't allow any of them to go outside at all w/o a parent anymore. Not even to take the garbage to the dumpster. Just not worth giving the leasing office more ammo), can't just sit and watch a movie. The joy seems to be missing and there's a lot of fear.

I'm feeding them good foods, supplementing their zinc and magnesium,keeping routines as normal as I can, and just allowing them to talk about it, or sleep in my bed, or whatever they seem to need, and taking it easy on them when they act out. We are all afraid...
 
#43 ·
You have to be the reassuring Supermom now. You have to tell them that sometimes that CAN happen, but that when they came by, they saw that the kids were safe, and now they just need to stop by to make sure everything is still ok.

Yes, cleaning has to happen, but they still do need to have fun, and it's up to you to make that a priority as well. The cleaning is easy enough to do- even with several kids. Buckle down for a few days and deep clean/purge everything, then just get back to normal routines with that. Looking for houses can be time consuming, but you can do it without giving up everything fun.

Take the kids out in the yard, and make yourself visible when you do. Don't demonize CPS to the kids, instead, emphasize that their job is to keep kids safe, and reassure them that no matter what did happen, you would do anything you needed to do to make sure that they would be with you, and that you are working WITH CPS to keep them safe because ultimately that is also your job. It sounds like you are projecting your fears onto the kids, and while that's totally normal and understandable, you can't continue to do so. You need to make it very 'life as usual' with a focus on their understanding that they need to be safe. As long as you see CPS in an adversarial light, they will as well. As long as you project fear, they will feel fear. I would not expect kids that age to connect the dots of 'CPS visit might meat we are taken away' without their having heard it from Mom and Dad.
 
#44 ·
IDK how much you've told your kids or how much they understand, but I would say as little as possible about it all. Don't make it into a big deal (even though it is, to you, b/c you know what COULD have happened if circumstances had been different). Just tell them that CPS visits to make sure they're safe. Which is true. Be as nonchalant as you can about it, and don't scurry around, making sure every crumb is wiped up and snapping that you can't look/play/do whatever b/c you have to keep the house clean. You don't. Really. As long as the trash is out and the dishes are only piled high enough for a full day's worth, you're fine even for a drop-in. Relax. Do your mortgage and house research after they've gone to bed. Pop some popcorn, watch a movie together, and have some fun.

Even if you need to do a big declutter, let them know that it's b/c you're moving, not b/c of CPS. Try to keep things on an even keel, if you can. You'll all feel much better!
 
#45 ·
pp have given you excellent advice. but the deed is done and your kids are scared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabbyraja View Post

And when they ask WHY we're making them keep clothes on all the time, or whatever, I have to be honest and say because CPS makes us or whatever.

they are staying inside the house right? then why do they need to keep their clothes on? what is wrong with that?

But, I'm now able to spend less leisure/fun time with them because I'm cleaning, and looking for a house, and working on credit and a mortgage, etc.

yes i know you are. i can imagine how you feel. but still why cant they go out for a couple of hours? why not take them to the park for a couple of hours and you ALL relax. YOU need to be out too and not freak. staying home and work, work, work will intensify your own panic.

I can't take them to the park every day, can't spend time with them outside (I won't allow any of them to go outside at all w/o a parent anymore. Not even to take the garbage to the dumpster. Just not worth giving the leasing office more ammo), can't just sit and watch a movie. The joy seems to be missing and there's a lot of fear.

mama you are freaking out. your freakout is feeding your children. they FEEL your panic. and its adding to their own stress. stop talking about CPS. relax and watch a movie. and if they bring up but mom what about CPS you can assure them - its ok. we are inside. we are not doing anything wrong.

use this time to declutter. sort out. is anyone coming over to help you? is there a friend who can take your older children out for a treat. take a deep breath mama and go out and 'enjoy' yourself. your worker is NOT a crazy worker. she is just making sure.

I'm feeding them good foods, supplementing their zinc and magnesium,keeping routines as normal as I can, and just allowing them to talk about it, or sleep in my bed, or whatever they seem to need, and taking it easy on them when they act out. We are all afraid...
do meditation, go for a walk - whatever it takes to take the fear out of you. YOU HAVE TO DO IT. there is no choice. because when you live in fear it completely overtakes you adn the answers might be staring at you right in the face adn you wont be able to see it.

ask for some support IRL. anyone. even if its a friend 2 states away with whom you can talk on the phone. you need help to ground yourself.

you can do this mama. you really can.
 
#46 ·
I'd say that once you feel you have enough of the cleaning done to be comfortable, actually schedule at least a day a week that's just for hanging out with the kids outside and away from the house. It would be sanity time for all of you, and if you have them outside a lot after you get it clean, you'll have less to clean up later, anyway. Tidier and the kids will like it!
 
#47 ·
OP I agree with Meemee, you are great to be worried about how your kids are reacting to all this, but you're also totally freaking out and your kids are both hearing it in what you are saying and also *feeling* it in how you are acting. I totally understand why this is so anxiety-inducing for you, but you would do yourself and your kids a favor to go back to the reality check of how CPS came to be involved, what your own worker is telling you about the concerns and why it's still open, but also what your worker is telling you about what you can do to get it closed and them away.

This is probably gonna sound like the whackiest, most awful idea ever to you, and all the "don't talk to CPS ever no matter what!" folks are gonna say "Don't do it!", but given your totally right on concern about your kids anxiety/fears about CPS, would you consider calling the CPS worker and asking her to talk to your kids and explain to them that it's only in serious, extreme situations that kids are removed and as far as she can tell, that's not what this is? I don't even know if your worker would consent to saying that, but my thinking of why it might be worth it to ask is this: she now represents this horrible possible (if unlikely) outcome, so it would probably mean a lot to your kids to hear HER explain why this will probably all be ok. Also, as a CPS worker (I do work for CPS), I know I would be impressed that a parent was that concerned about the impact of the situation on my kids, so it would be a plus for you in my book.

I have never heard of anyone doing this, and I totally understand if you think it sounds like too much potential trouble. But it crossed my mind so I wanted to share it as a possibility. No problem if you totally ignore it! :)

Mostly though I *do* think that the best thing you can do for yourself, your kids and this situation is to get a handle on your anxiety and not stop living your life as you did just because this happened (other than the wise step of getting the alarm on the door and checking in with your mom about what she was thinking when she told your son you were at leasing office). However you've handled it when you've gotten overwhelmed before or your're not feeling well, do that, or if you didn't have a strategy, can you ask around for parent support groups or talk to your doctor about ways to build that support into your life so you have someone to talk to when you are losing it? That is so important.

And lastly, please please please make sure you talk to your 4 yr old and make sure they know that they didn't do anything wrong, that none of this is their fault, and that you understand why they went where they went (since they were told that's where you were). It's SO important that your 4 yr old not think that everyone is upset with them or they did something horribly wrong and now the family will be ruined. This wasn't the child's fault, so please make sure you've addressed it with him in case he's scared and feels responsible. And make sure his siblings aren't blaming him, which they could understandably be doing even if you haven't heard it. Just check in. If it's not an issue, cool, but it usually is in this kind of situation.

Best of luck momma!
 
#48 ·
Inside Voice, I just wanna say that is SO AWFUL what happened to you. I'm glad you realize how totally unusual that is. There are bad, willfully harmful workers out there, as there are in any field. It's just worse in CPS because they have the power to really mess up a situation. But those are such incredibly UNUSUAL situations... my heart falls apart every time I hear of someone knowingly doing something so awful. I'm just glad you were so wise and able to defend yourself, and that even though that crazy worker probably did a lot of harm in that year she was there, it's good that she's not doing it anymore.

Since this thread is about a different situation I won't ask more questions, I just find myself really curious re: how the whole situation began in your case and how this worker first approached you (i.e. whether she was crazy from step 1 or did it deteriorate over the course of the initital visit). If you don't mind sharing your story in a PM or something, I'd like to know because I always feel like I learn new things about what to look out for in workers' behaviors (I supervise CPS staff), even though I've never had a worker like this on my watch (and I'd know because I seek parental feedback all the time, sometimes after case closure if the parent is willing to be contacted).

But it's totally ok if you don't want to do that. Just wanted you to know how sorry I am that happened, and how glad I am that despite that horrific experience, you understand that the vast majority of times workers are hoping NOT to find anything serious enough that a child needs to be removed.

Take care!
 
#49 ·
I'm actually going to respond to this here because I think it's important to know the how/why behind things like this. CPS shouldn't be demonized for actions of some people. I do think some changes need to be made, but how to effect those changes is a whole different question, because ultimately, we have to protect children.

In my case, my ex decided to use CPS as a weapon. He was angry that I had made the decision not to be in an unhealthy dynamic and that I wouldn't allow my daughter to grow up witnessing those behaviors. I do not know every complaint he lodged, I know some of it, but the initial complaint was never something I could actually see. Knowing my ex as I do, I'm sure that whatever he created was enough to scare anyone who cares about kids. I suspect that- at many levels, she really just wanted to make sure my daughter was safe, and her initial response was to err on the side of caution. She was unbalanced enough to take that too deeply into herself, and in that, I'm sure she thought she was protecting DD by creating a situation that meant she needed to be removed.

The first thing I knew of the complaint was this woman on my doorstep at about 8am while we were still in our pajamas. She was very much over the top from the get go, alternatively commenting on how pretty DD was and how well behaved, and in another moment attacking me and making odd accusations (she also claimed I appeared drug affected.) I let that initial comment slip past thinking, I probably did look out of it since I was JUST getting over a horrible flu. As I noticed how incredibly invasive she was, I knew there was something very wrong. When she started taking staged pictures I knew I needed immediate help. I had always been a very pro-cps, sure let them in and look around! sort of person. It snowballed very quickly, and sadly, whether for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, this woman had come in with her mind already made up that my DD was going to be removed.

She was irate when I contacted the police, and became quite angry with them when they tried to speak up on my behalf stating that they clearly didn't know what to look for. It was an unfortunate system, but in hindsight, I will say that with a great deal of luck, and because I had enough experience to know what was wrong with the whole situation, I was able to untangle the mess and DD is with me. Her father did eventually terminate his rights, but I had been granted sole physical/legal custody long before that happened. I worry about what would have happened if I had not been able to advocate for myself, or if I had not known how family courts work, had this woman's word been taken at face value, it would have been a terrible outcome for my daughter. It is because of the possibility of abuse that I think the system does need some change, but I realize that it is very rare for a child to be removed without cause, and even more uncommon for reunification not to be attempted if they are. I'm not sure you can design a system to be foolproof- certainly in my situation had a couple worker been present instead of one it would have helped. However, where does the money and the staffing for that to happen come from, more importantly, while two people are investigating me and protecting me from a situation like this, who is investigating cases where kids really are in danger?
 
#50 ·
I just read the OP post and don't have time to read the replies, but had to offer some assurance from the other end. I am a foster-adoptive parent.

We learned over and over in class that CPS can't just "take kids". When you wish they were allowed to they cant. Say Mom is strung out on drugs and has already had 7 kids taken by CPS, they can't automatically take a new baby from her unless the baby tests positive for drugs exposure at the hospital. A report of physical abuse can be filed and even with the childrens statements, it goes "unfounded" if there are no marks (our experience reporting their last foster home). Even if parents are proven to be on drugs, CPS has to prove abuse or neglect to remove children.

Soooo, they can't just take your kids, even if you have a pretty messy house. Unless they keep turning up at the Dr with horrible infections, injuries, malnutrition, etc.

Breathe, your family will be ok! *Hugs*
 
#51 ·
I just read the OP post and don't have time to read the replies, but had to offer some assurance from the other end. I am a foster-adoptive parent.

We learned over and over in class that CPS can't just "take kids". When you wish they were allowed to they cant. Say Mom is strung out on drugs and has already had 7 kids taken by CPS, they can't automatically take a new baby from her unless the baby tests positive for drugs exposure at the hospital. A report of physical abuse can be filed and even with the childrens statements, it goes "unfounded" if there are no marks (our experience reporting their last foster home). Even if parents are proven to be on drugs, CPS has to prove abuse or neglect to remove children.

Soooo, they can't just take your kids, even if you have a pretty messy house. Unless they keep turning up at the Dr with horrible infections, injuries, malnutrition, etc.

Breathe, your family will be ok! *Hugs*
 
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