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#61 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 07:17 AM
 
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Think about it. If you, as a mom and adult, were going to wear a skirt or dress and planned to be on the monkey bars hanging upside down, wouldn't you rather have shorts on? That's all it is for me. I'm not much of a skirt/dress woman myself, but if I do wear one I do make sure my undies aren't showing and I teach my girls to do the same. I don't tell them not to climb on the monkey bars, nor do I insist that they not wear skirts if they're planning on climbing the monkey bars, but shorts underneath are a good compromise for me. I view my job as a parent as guiding my kids toward adulthood. This is one step on the way for me. 

 

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#62 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

"lady like" isn't a precise term, and different people use it to mean different things. When I was growing up with my Fundy Christian parents, it meant being passive, not speaking up, taking care of others, always putting myself last, and looking pretty without ever drawing attention to my sexuality. It's the combination of focus on appearance combined with passivity that causes me to cringe. Plus, I've seldom heard in used in a positive way -- I hear people point out to girls when they AREN'T lady like. I don't hear people using it to describe women in positive ways, just put down little girls and tell them how they are missing the mark, using by moving. 

 

Crossing legs isn't good for circulation. It's healthier to let the blood flow.


Put that way, I can understand the negative connotation.  That almost sounds like the christian attitude of a wife submitting herself to her husband. 

 

That wasn't my experience with the term, so it holds no negativity for me.  It did include dressing modestly as a young girl, but more like having manners, not gossiping, not commenting on a person's physical traits, not commenting if someone is rude and being able to smooth over arguments, giving people the benefit of the doubt, etc.  It didn't make me feel that had to be less of what I am, especially female, but more of what I could be.  Some stuck, some didn't, so I'm not sure how it all turned out.  winky.gif

 

I agree about the circulation.  I was taught to cross at the ankles and pull the feet back to the side a bit.  That way, you never had to get up and promptly fall down on your face when you realized your foot went to sleep.

 

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#63 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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Nearly all of my DD's skirts come with little built-in shorts. When she wears the ones that don't, I put little legging-type shorts on underneath. That way she has freedom of movement and never has to hear me telling her to sit in such a way that her undies are covered. I would never use the phrases, "Sit like a lady" or, "Be ladylike," but I might say, "Oops, your undies are showing" or something, just like I sometimes do to DS if he pulls up his shorts/undies in a weird way and they end up twisted or with the undies sticking out the top. In our family undies are meant to be concealed under clothes -- I don't think that's oppressive in and of itself, and I don't think the gentle reminders I give my kids about it are oppressive either. 

 

I saw it mentioned a couple of times in this thread, but I've never in my life heard someone tell a girl wearing pants to close her legs. I can definitely see how that starts to veer into, "Hide your sinful place" territory. 


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#64 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Oh please velochic. Stop taking it so seriously. We all know it's the frikkin' labia. The OP called it a vagina. So the frick what? Your comment was extremely Rude.
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

I was thinking of this thread yesterday.  There are some things, that I just don't understand about this, and am honestly asking about things I'm puzzled over.  How can the OP be so passionate about something and not even know the proper body parts?  As others have pointed out, it would be the labia showing, not the vagina

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#65 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 12:11 PM
 
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Oh please velochic. Stop taking it so seriously. We all know it's the frikkin' labia. The OP called it a vagina. So the frick what? Your comment was extremely Rude.
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

I was thinking of this thread yesterday.  There are some things, that I just don't understand about this, and am honestly asking about things I'm puzzled over.  How can the OP be so passionate about something and not even know the proper body parts?  As others have pointed out, it would be the labia showing, not the vagina



Yes, only those that are properly educated can be passionate about things. /sarcasm

 

Seriously, I just don't see why this is a debate anymore.  Yup, most women understand that what you can see is the vulva.  But we just refer to the whole area as "vagina".  It's like when I'm talking to my son about his penis.  We've started differentiating between glans/shaft/foreskin, but it's still all together his "penis".  SAME THING.


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#66 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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I have a pubescent girl who is COMPLETELY unaware of where her body is and whether or not it is covered.  Coupled with a body that is kind of an odd shape, she often has pants falling down too low on her bum or something similar.  Not about shame, but there are social norms that are important to follow within reason.  I do remind her to pull up her pants or generally rearrange her clothes. 

 

When she was younger, we just tossed leggings/bike shorts whatever on underneath a skirt or dress- it made it a complete non-issue. 

 

I have essentially the same rules regarding modesty for all my kids- male or female:

 

Put on weather appropriate clothing if we are going out in public.  If you are over 4/5 (old enough to realize that society does expect you to wear clothes) wear clothes at all times.  In the house with just family around lounging in a tank top and a pair of undies on a hot day is understandable, but adding some shorts is preferable. Toddlers and kids learning about using the toilet are often naked from the waist down. Kids in diapers often wear just a shirt and a diaper in warmer weather.  

 

 

 

 

 

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#67 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 02:24 PM
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As for the term "ladylike"....I can only recall one person ever telling me I was being unladylike. I was 17. He was one of my very best friends in high school, and we had just gotten finished with playing basketball, for Pete's sake. eyesroll.gif  We were sitting on the floor of the gym, backs against the wall, drinking water. I was sitting with my legs bent, feet flat on the floor, knees apart.

 

He looked disturbed and said that the way I was sitting wasn't "ladylike." I told him that a BJ wasn't ladylike, either, but I bet he never complained about that. He turned red and shut up.

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#68 of 186 Old 09-19-2011, 04:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

It did include dressing modestly as a young girl, but more like having manners, not gossiping, not commenting on a person's physical traits, not commenting if someone is rude and being able to smooth over arguments, giving people the benefit of the doubt, etc.


Other than modesty, but that seems like basic behavior  for all humans, not just females.

 

I don't see polite behavior any different for males and females. Therefore, I don't see polite behavior as "ladylike."

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#69 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 04:56 AM
 
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If keeping your legs closed is considered shaming... is being told to act like a lady demeaning?  

 

I just told my cowork to shut his legs.  He has a stain on his pants from his coffee... looks like poo squirts! 

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#70 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 05:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lazurii View Post
Seriously, I just don't see why this is a debate anymore.  Yup, most women understand that what you can see is the vulva.  But we just refer to the whole area as "vagina".  It's like when I'm talking to my son about his penis.  We've started differentiating between glans/shaft/foreskin, but it's still all together his "penis".  SAME THING.


Actually,  what you can SEE is the labia and the entire "area" is properly referred to as the vulva not the vagina. The term vulva refers to the external genital organs of any female mammal. We taught our three year old to say vulva because both DH and I are overly pedantic and obsessed with encouraging her to have an accurate/varied vocabulary, but this post has made me reconsider the implications of different word choices in relation to this topic and now I'm finding other reasons to be annoyed by the use of "vagina" when someone actually means "vulva".... Basically, the hyper focus on vaginas is a focus on the sexual/reproductive aspects of a girl's body and that really shouldn't be an issue for girls as young as three. It really shouldn't be an issue prior to the onset of menstruation. The term vulva--which encompasses all the parts people are worried about other people seeing or not seeing or whatever--only technically includes the opening of the vagina, not the entire structure. I'm actually not sure that my three year old even realizes that she HAS a vagina although she certainly has some idea of what they are and how they function after the birth of her sister. 


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#71 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 05:43 AM
 
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Oh please velochic. Stop taking it so seriously. We all know it's the frikkin' labia. The OP called it a vagina. So the frick what? Your comment was extremely Rude.


Don't you understand that if you arent educated about the correct terminology of the parts of a woman's body you arent allowed to have feelings or be passionate about it?
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#72 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 05:53 AM
 
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I have a 4 yo DD who loves dresses.  Nine times out of ten, she pairs them with leggings or shorts (or another tutu or whatever--her choice--she picks out 99% of her outfits).  She does like to go upside down on the couch, etc.  It usually isn't an issue--because if you do see her undies it's a quick glimpse as she flips back over.  However, sometimes we'll tell her, "I can see your undies"...and she puts her dress down.    It's not a big deal--or about vulva-shaming either.  We'll let our boys know if their undies are showing as well. We'll say something like, " Undies go underneath our clothes--so in general, we don't show them to other people."


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#73 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 06:05 AM
 
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We use correct terms in our house.  As correct as I see them

 

Cookie

Hooha

hoodi hoo

Vajayjay

Tootie

tootems

Bootyhox

Banjo  My favorite!

 

And yes they know these correct terms by heart and use them properly!

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#74 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 06:11 AM
 
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ok... so... i am genuinely wondering, not trying to be a smartiepants... 

so if you wear something that requires you to wear a whole other complete item of clothing beneath it, what is the purpose of wearing item 1 in the first place? 

i don't put skirts/dresses on my kid, and from what i see, the kids who do wear them seem encumbered, for the most part.  i know there are different kinds of skirts that don't restrict movement but mostly i just don't get the point.


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#75 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 07:28 AM
 
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ok... so... i am genuinely wondering, not trying to be a smartiepants... 

so if you wear something that requires you to wear a whole other complete item of clothing beneath it, what is the purpose of wearing item 1 in the first place? 

i don't put skirts/dresses on my kid, and from what i see, the kids who do wear them seem encumbered, for the most part.  i know there are different kinds of skirts that don't restrict movement but mostly i just don't get the point.


My kids love skirts.  I wouldn't dream of telling them they couldn't wear a skirt because I have them wear shorts underneath.  The point for them is the swishy-swirly fun of the skirt.

 


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#76 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 07:35 AM
 
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so if you wear something that requires you to wear a whole other complete item of clothing beneath it, what is the purpose of wearing item 1 in the first place? 

 


because the child likes the dress or skirt and wants to wear it. That's the only reason. It allow the child to make their own choices.

 


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#77 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 07:41 AM
 
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But we just refer to the whole area as "vagina". 

Sigh, its like telling your daughter she's wearing her innards outside of her. The area you see is the vulva/labia. Only the canal inside is the vagina..... that really is never seen by the casual eye..... even if you are a nudist.

I fail to understand why educated people intentionally get this wrong. Our daughters and sons need the language to describe every part of their body.
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#78 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

If keeping your legs closed is considered shaming... is being told to act like a lady demeaning?  


Yes, exactly!

 

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Sigh, its like telling your daughter she's wearing her innards outside of her. The area you see is the vulva/labia. Only the canal inside is the vagina..... that really is never seen by the casual eye..... even if you are a nudist.

I fail to understand why educated people intentionally get this wrong. Our daughters and sons need the language to describe every part of their body.


 

I don't see this as such a big deal.  A lot of people use the word "vagina" when referring to the whole package, and I feel like I can always, or at least usually, tell from context what they mean.  There is not another proper word (I mean other than things like hooha  --  though I'm more unclear on the technical meaning of hooha) for it, as far as I know.  If people are uncomfortable with or for some reason don't want to use "vulva" or "labia," why does it matter?  I'm sure we all know those words.  There are some words that really bother me because they feel like baby talk or like a way of pretending we don't really have vulvas, labias, or vaginas, like "girl parts", but if used with affection I don't have any problem with hooha or vajayjay.  If I had a little girl, I'd probably be using "vulva," "labia," and "vagina," and quite possibly using the word "vagina" to mean more than just her innards here and there, because I do think a lot of us are uncomfortable with those words because they weren't used with us as kids and I wouldn't want to pass that on to my dd.


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#79 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 09:39 AM
 
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I don't think that feeling personally uncomfortable is a good reason to give another generation the same uncomfortableness that you (generic you) grew up with. Calling all of a little girl's genitals "vagina" is like calling everything a little boy has his testicles. It's just not accurate. I don't think it's fair to kids to pass down these inaccuracies. I'd honestly rather have a slang word to use as shorthand than use a correct word but use it wrong. I'd rather have my daughter learn that sometimes we call it by a fun name than to learn the wrong words for stuff.

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#80 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:00 AM
 
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Sigh, its like telling your daughter she's wearing her innards outside of her. The area you see is the vulva/labia. Only the canal inside is the vagina..... that really is never seen by the casual eye..... even if you are a nudist.

I fail to understand why educated people intentionally get this wrong. Our daughters and sons need the language to describe every part of their body.

 

I suspect this is partly a generational "hangover". While growing up, my mom was never taught the correct terms for any of her genitalia, as my grandmother was the type who tried to pretend that nobody, especially girls, even had genitals. When we were kids, mom used the "correct" terms with us, as she felt we deserved to know the names of our own body parts. However, we were taught to call the whole area the vagina. As I got older, I realized that "vagina" was a term specific to the birth canal, but I didn't know the word "vulva" and assumed for a long, long time that "vagina" was also used - correctly - as a label for a woman's entire genital area. It was after I came to MDC that I discovered the term "vulva". I was in my late 30s, and was pregnant with my third child (as well as three miscarriages before that), and had read a lot about the female body, including looking at a lot of diagrams, when I was younger. "Vulva" was an invisible word. So, even though I now know the term "vulva", and have taught it to my kids, I still sometimes slip up and say "vagina", because I have 30+ years of habit driving that usage.

 

I think that, over time, if people continue to use the correct terminology, it will become normalized. It's just going to take time.

 

 

I do have to say that, over the years, I've been somewhat horrified at the level of scorn and mockery heaped on the heads of posters who incorrectly use "vagina", instead of "vulva". We, as a culture, aren't that far removed (or removed at all, in some places) from only using cutesy names and/or completely avoiding any reference to female genitalia (except in very crude, demeaning usages by some men). Women using "vagina" are clearly making a real attempt to move away from the body shaming and nonsense that our culture has been riddled with, and I don't understand why people are so condescending when they (we? I don't think I ever posted using the incorrect term, but I certainly could have) slip up. It's not simply about clarity of communication with others, because I'm almost sure that there are more people in North America who believe that vagina is the correct term than people who know the word "vulva".
 

 


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#81 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:08 AM
 
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I don't see this as such a big deal.  A lot of people use the word "vagina" when referring to the whole package, and I feel like I can always, or at least usually, tell from context what they mean.  There is not another proper word (I mean other than things like hooha  --  though I'm more unclear on the technical meaning of hooha) for it, as far as I know.  If people are uncomfortable with or for some reason don't want to use "vulva" or "labia," why does it matter?  I'm sure we all know those words.  There are some words that really bother me because they feel like baby talk or like a way of pretending we don't really have vulvas, labias, or vaginas, like "girl parts", but if used with affection I don't have any problem with hooha or vajayjay.  If I had a little girl, I'd probably be using "vulva," "labia," and "vagina," and quite possibly using the word "vagina" to mean more than just her innards here and there, because I do think a lot of us are uncomfortable with those words because they weren't used with us as kids and I wouldn't want to pass that on to my dd.


It's funny how differently we all feel. I would vastly prefer "girl parts", "lady parts", "girly bits", etc. over "hooha" or "vajayjay". Actually, I've learned to largely tune out "vajayjay", but I think if someone used it to refer to my own genitals, my first reaction would be to want to smack them. I hate that term with a passion. (Mind you, a former Cub Scout leader I worked with referred to hers as a "whatsit", which made my head hurt, too.)

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#82 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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I don't think that feeling personally uncomfortable is a good reason to give another generation the same uncomfortableness that you (generic you) grew up with. Calling all of a little girl's genitals "vagina" is like calling everything a little boy has his testicles. It's just not accurate. I don't think it's fair to kids to pass down these inaccuracies.

 

Actually, it would be more like calling the whole thing his "penis", and I've certainly known a fair number of people who teach their boys a lot more about the penis and what to call it, than the testicles/scrotum. That said, there really are differences in teaching the names for boys, because 1) everybody does know the terms "scrotum", "testicles" and "penis", whlie not everybody knows "vulva", and 2) a boy's genitals are all hanging out and visible, so the question of discrete names for the various parts comes up much more clearly (I can actually remember one of my boys - not sure which - asking me what his scrotum was, and then asking me what was inside it). I honestly don't even remember wondering what my inner labia were all about, when they started to grow during puberty. It was just one of those body changes, and I didn't realize they had their own name, until sex ed. It just didn't occur to me that they were a separate part.

 

I'd honestly rather have a slang word to use as shorthand than use a correct word but use it wrong. I'd rather have my daughter learn that sometimes we call it by a fun name than to learn the wrong words for stuff.

 

I don't see a big problem with a slang word to use as shorthand. I, personally, wouldn't use most of them, because I don't find them "fun" - I find them annoying and unnecessarily cutesy. But, I don't see an issue with them. The issue with slang words, ime, is that many people use them, and don't teach any correct terminology at all.

 

There was a former daycare worker (I think - something like that - maybe a relative of the child?) who posted here once, talking about a child who was complaining that her "purse" hurt. Nobody had a clue what she was talking about. If that same child had said, "my vagina hurts", it's a safe bet the staff would have known where the problem was and been able to take steps to address it. (It's also possible that if the girl said "vulva", they'd have been confused.) Slang terms as shorthand are one thing. Slang terms, in lieu of any kind of proper words, is something else.
 

 


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#83 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:20 AM
 
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i think i started dont show your underwear when dd was what 5. however she does wear long dresses (its cheaper for me - get more wear out of it). shorter dresses she wore shorts or boxers or leggings underneath.

 

today at nine we dont do the shorts anymore. dd is more aware - but not always. she is usually mindful when she sits cross legged.

 

she is the climbing, high energy going crazy child so she doesnt always remember.

 

however i have NEVER done the cross your legs. that term makes my stomach curl.

 

and dd has always loved dresses and sweats since a toddler. not even jeans coz sweats and dresses were easier to climb and play in. dresses were GREAT to potty train in. i think its because of her dresses during potty training that she can pee flawlessly standing up. sit on her haunches to pee and she dribbles all over.


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#84 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:46 AM
 
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 I encourage my children to respect the comfortability of the other people (within reason, of course). 

 

 To be completely honest, I don't care if my children:

*say, "oh my god"

*burp out loud

*wear a hat to the dinner table

*ask innocently about another person's physical differences

*keep their elbow off the table

*wear appropriate attire in public

 

...but other people do, and in my opinion, we all deserve to be comfortable coexisting, and these are very little things that my children can do to ensure that everyone feels comfy. :)


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#85 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rparker View Post

Actually,  what you can SEE is the labia and the entire "area" is properly referred to as the vulva not the vagina. The term vulva refers to the external genital organs of any female mammal. We taught our three year old to say vulva because both DH and I are overly pedantic and obsessed with encouraging her to have an accurate/varied vocabulary, but this post has made me reconsider the implications of different word choices in relation to this topic and now I'm finding other reasons to be annoyed by the use of "vagina" when someone actually means "vulva".... Basically, the hyper focus on vaginas is a focus on the sexual/reproductive aspects of a girl's body and that really shouldn't be an issue for girls as young as three. It really shouldn't be an issue prior to the onset of menstruation. The term vulva--which encompasses all the parts people are worried about other people seeing or not seeing or whatever--only technically includes the opening of the vagina, not the entire structure. I'm actually not sure that my three year old even realizes that she HAS a vagina although she certainly has some idea of what they are and how they function after the birth of her sister. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
Sigh, its like telling your daughter she's wearing her innards outside of her. The area you see is the vulva/labia. Only the canal inside is the vagina..... that really is never seen by the casual eye..... even if you are a nudist.

I fail to understand why educated people intentionally get this wrong. Our daughters and sons need the language to describe every part of their body.


I'm an educated person who intentionally "gets this wrong."  Most people, at least on MDC, know the proper terms, but you know what?  99% of people I talk to IRL use the word vagina to describe the vulva and the labia (even though most of them I'm sure know the correct terminology), so I do too.  I think it sounds totally pretentious to use vulva and labia when the rest of the world uses vagina.  To me, it is like the difference between soda and pop, water fountain and bubbler.  If you live somewhere where pop is typically used and someone asks for soda, you *know* what they mean and it is rude to correct them. 

 

I mean, seriously, who cares?  If I had so few things to worry about in my life that I could find the time to be "annoyed" at others using the word vagina inaccurately, I'd consider myself a very lucky woman.  It reminds me of my grandma who gets pissed when people pronouce bruschetta and Ralph Lauren wrong. Life is a little too short to get uptight about stuff like this...

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#86 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 11:02 AM
 
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my dh is not an idiot by any means but just the other day he was surprised that i was using the word "vulva" to dd to describe just that.  he was also under the impression that it was a vagina.  i think there are lots of people who either use that word for the whole shebang or else are confused. 

(and for the record.. i haven't noticed that not knowing the correct terminology made him less ardent in general ;)  )

i don't see that it matters a whole lot, because at least when people are using either word they are attempting to communicate to their kid that there's a real word for the thing.  we don't have silly words for our arms and ears, etc.  and i think that using slang just adds to the mystery/confusion.  fwiw, my parents never. ever. even implied there was a word for it of any kind whatsoever.  so i'll take vagina over silence anyday.


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#87 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post
so i'll take vagina over silence anyday.


 

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Yes. This, exactly. You said what I was trying to say, and said it much, much more succinctly.


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#88 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 11:30 AM
 
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We're in the process of looking for books for my two eldest on sex, and I've noticed that if one looks at books from the 70s (I think "Where Did I Come from?" is one), one is likely to just see "vagina"--rather than labia, vulva, etc.  If one looks at more recently created books ("What the Big Secret", "it's Not the Stork"), one will see vulva for the external genitalia, and vagina referring to the actual vagina.  My guess is that back in the 70s, it was a big deal...and liberating...to just teach your kids vagina vs. girl parts or whatever it was called in the 50s or whatever.

 

 


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#89 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

While growing up, my mom was never taught the correct terms for any of her genitalia, as my grandmother was the type who tried to pretend that nobody, especially girls, even had genitals. When we were kids, mom used the "correct" terms with us, as she felt we deserved to know the names of our own body parts. However, we were taught to call the whole area the vagina.

 


My mother never used terms at all to refer to genitals. Ever. Not the right ones, not the wrong ones. Not cutesie ones. My genitals were "down there" or my "crotch".

 

I also got through basic "puberty education" at school in the 70's without real words being used. We just learned about our periods.

 

Honestly just telling my kids that "boys have penises and girls have vaginas" was a really massive step forward. We stuck with that for years because it was simple and clear. Around 9/10 I got a book and went through the whole shebang. Very detailed.

 

One of my DDs is currently in sex ed at her private progressive school -- which doesn't receive government money and therefore can tell the truth, and my DD was the best informed on human anatomy at the beginning of the class (the labor and delivery nurse who is assisting in the class told me I was doing a great job. thumb.gif )

 

I think very parents actually follow through and teach their kids anatomy and that this is one of the situations where mothering.com can be a bit extreme. Most girls don't have a clue what a vulva and clitoris are.

 

Based on my growing up experience and what I see of my kids' peers, I think any mother who manages to speak clearly and positively about her DD's genitals is doing a great job -- whatever words she chooses. winky.gif

*bejeweled* and hildare like this.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#90 of 186 Old 09-20-2011, 12:35 PM
 
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So when your (general you) 2 year old son asks "do you have a penis, mama?", what do you tell him?  My first thought would be to say that I have a "vagina," but if I said that I'd definitely be thinking *wrong* because in my head I'd be using that word to mean the whole shebang.  So then I thought, maybe vulva, since that's what he can see if he's around when I get out of the shower, etc.  But then what he's really asking is "I have a penis, what do you have that is like a penis to you?"  But I don't think I can quite stand to tell my 2 yo, who is quite a talker, that he has a penis and I have a clitoris.  At least I wouldn't want to be there when he starts singing loudly about it in the grocery store.  And anyway, although it's the closest approximation of a penis, I think, it's still pretty different.  I don't use it to pee, for example.  In the end, I guess I think "vagina" is fine  --  and that would be the whole package kind of vagina, not the innards only version.  I am pretty sure that's what just about everyone we know is going to tell their little boys.  And some day in the future he will learn the correct terminology.  


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