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Old 10-11-2011, 07:38 AM
 
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OP: I wish you were MY mom. ;)

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Old 10-11-2011, 09:26 AM
 
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I can't agree with including kids in every conversation.

 

I have a friend who allows her 10 year old son to sit with us for every visit and participate in the conversation. I'm sorry, but sometimes I want to have girl talk with my friend. Alone. I want to talk about politics without having to explain it to a ten year old or hear his opinion. I want to vent about my husband, or share how my son (his friend) is having a hard time in school. Those topics are not ones that I want him to have any input in or knowledge about. Often I have to tell him to go find his friend and play, because this is an adult conversation.

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Old 10-11-2011, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not talking about conversation that don't include family members.  Sometimes conversations between two people are somewhat confidential.  That's different and understood in our house.  They don't listen into my phone conversations with my friends and I don't listen into their conversations with their friends.  Even though the tidbits I get now and then are pretty darn cute.

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I can't agree with including kids in every conversation.

 

I have a friend who allows her 10 year old son to sit with us for every visit and participate in the conversation. I'm sorry, but sometimes I want to have girl talk with my friend. Alone. I want to talk about politics without having to explain it to a ten year old or hear his opinion. I want to vent about my husband, or share how my son (his friend) is having a hard time in school. Those topics are not ones that I want him to have any input in or knowledge about. Often I have to tell him to go find his friend and play, because this is an adult conversation.



 

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Old 10-11-2011, 01:29 PM
 
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maybe she said that because she feels guilty for feeling that way and just had to say something to get it off her chest?

 

my *favorite* cousin once got a car she loved. no idea the make or year. she talked on and on about it on the phone. when i finally saw it, she was so happy and it took all my might to not say anything negative. finally at the end i blurted out, "well as long as you like it..." and made a face. it just came out. i didnt know what to say, i couldnt keep my mouth shut, i instantly regretted saying it... 

 

im glad you have such a good friend and you can look past parenting styles


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Old 10-11-2011, 03:19 PM
 
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Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything on your list. I allow my DD (10) the freedom to use whatever language she feels is appropriate -- she rarely chooses to curse, but if she does, she is free to say whatever she'd like. She also understands that such language is not always appropriate, and that discretion should be used when out with friends, at school or with certain members of our extended family. I also allow her to paint her nails any color she chooses (even black, which is her current favorite), choose what she wants to wear (as long as it's weather-appropriate and/or doesn't make her look like a hobo), and (mostly) self-regulate what she chooses to watch on TV. I'm sure many parents with different parenting styles would cringe knowing that my DD has a TV with Netflix and a Wii in her room, and that we do not restrict what she watches, because she has never given us a reason to. She has very specific tastes in movies and TV shows, and I have never had to ask her to not watch something that she's chosen to watch. I'm sure the day will come when she will choose something inappropriate, and I will step in at that point, but for now she has a good grasp on whether a movie or tv show is something that would interest her, so I let her choose. The exception to this is that she is really into Manga and Anime, and a lot of the series that seem age-appropriate are actually not, so she always needs to check with me or DH before reading a new series. Other than that, I encourage her to be independent and make her own choices, even if some of them end up not turning out how she'd planned -- valuable lessons learned :) 

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Definitely.  And how do they know what they really like if we make all their choices for them.  I know kids who never once got to choose what they could listen to and what they could watch.  Or read for that matter.  Then one day the see read or hear something that they never knew existed.  Obviously there are things I won't allow in my house due to the fact that I don't find it appropriate for myself .  LIke Techo... Kidding.  Though I still can't stand that stuff.  I've tried.  One of my best friends will torture me on car rides with it.

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Old 10-11-2011, 05:48 PM
 
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Much of your list does make me cringe. I wouldn't want my kids in a house where hours of video games are the norm. I don't think unlimited screen time is a healthy thing. Nor do I want my kids around other kids and adults who curse and believe it's ok. I think profanity is tacky and vulgar and while I'm first to admit I slip up and use it, I always make it clear that I shouldn't have. I don't think kids need to be included in everything I'm discussing with my friends. Our whole family eats the same healthy food. I don't make special orders, and they don't get to eat what they want, when they want (or it would be chocolate for breakfast). And with a pre-teen boy, running around nude when guests are over is definitely not appropriate. My kids get to make plenty of choices, including input when I plan meals. They are not deprived of freedom. But based on your list, yeah, we wouldn't be hanging out at your place.

However, I don't think your friend accomplished anything by telling you that your parenting style made her cringe. In her shoes, I would simply have let the friendship die a natural death.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Uh... we've been friends for 8 years.  We watch each others kids often.  Maybe you think that allowing your kids to pick what is good and not good for themselves can be dangerous because inherently they will pick wrong?  Well what is wrong is subjective.  Based on experiences and choices.  DD1 spent weeks playing a game and in the end realized she missed way too many fun things outside with her friends.  I haven't seen her on the computer in months.  She tried to stay up super late all summer and again missed a lot of fun that was going on in the mornings with her friends.  She decided it was best to go to bed early and get up early so that she can be part of the fun.  So she learned from these experiences.  I know people in their 20's that still do stuff like that.  She's 8.   Swearing... I'm not the word police. 

 

You know what?  Why bother.  You'd obviously forgo a friendship over pettiness.  I won't.  I know we're different.  However we make pretty good friends, I respect her choices she respects mine.  Amazing we've been friends for so long? 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post

Much of your list does make me cringe. I wouldn't want my kids in a house where hours of video games are the norm. I don't think unlimited screen time is a healthy thing. Nor do I want my kids around other kids and adults who curse and believe it's ok. I think profanity is tacky and vulgar and while I'm first to admit I slip up and use it, I always make it clear that I shouldn't have. I don't think kids need to be included in everything I'm discussing with my friends. Our whole family eats the same healthy food. I don't make special orders, and they don't get to eat what they want, when they want (or it would be chocolate for breakfast). And with a pre-teen boy, running around nude when guests are over is definitely not appropriate. My kids get to make plenty of choices, including input when I plan meals. They are not deprived of freedom. But based on your list, yeah, we wouldn't be hanging out at your place.
However, I don't think your friend accomplished anything by telling you that your parenting style made her cringe. In her shoes, I would simply have let the friendship die a natural death.


 

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Old 10-11-2011, 07:20 PM
 
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Hey, we all have different values. If it works for you, great.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post

Hey, we all have different values. If it works for you, great.
 
I wasn't going to comment, but I came back because this was irking me.  I get having different parenting values, but what I want to know is whether you are consciously passing on the value of not maintaining friendships with those you disagree with.  We have friendships with people of all faiths (and I mean all, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, don't care, you name it), with and without children, permissive to strict parents.  I love having real conversations with these people, and modelling respectful debate, looking at things from other people's point of view while maintaining your own values, etc.  Wouldn't it be boring if we only ever agreed when talking?  And if a friend modifies the household atmosphere when the kids are visiting, isn't that enough?  If your value is not tolerating differences in friends, that's fine, I'm just wondering if you consciously realized you have this value or if you just avoid confrontation out of fear.
 
What was great about this post was seeing how two very different people can be great friends and how their children can learn about the wide range of diverse family values.


 


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Old 10-12-2011, 09:21 AM
 
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FarmerBeth, I couldn't get the quote to work on what you wrote, but of course I have friendships with people who have different opinions from me. Heck, I served in the Peace Corps for three years, I get being around people of different backgrounds, and I belong to a very minority faith.

However, I think what you are talking about is very different from what the OP is describing. I'm very happy to be friends with someone who holds different views. But I don't want my kids hanging out with kids who've been taught that cursing is A-ok and do it routinely. Of course, if they modified that behavior around my kids, that would be fine. I didn't see that mentioned in the OP (and haven't read the entire thread). I'm not going to take my 11yo boy somewhere that other kids routinely run around naked. But sure, if they don't do that when pre-teen boys are around, that wouldn't prevent me from hanging out, either. I didn't see that in the OP, either. I think there's a big difference in maintaining friendships with people of other opinions, vs. not wanting your kids around people who exhibit certain behaviors. Big difference.

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Old 10-12-2011, 10:02 AM
 
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OK, get that.  If you read the whole thread, you'd probably get my context.  I can see the distinction between views and behaviors.


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Old 10-12-2011, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey the point is that there are people who simply don't like my style of parenting.  And that's cool.  How you do it in your own home and how comfortable you'd feel with your kids around mine are all up to the parent.  We teach respect.  If someone else would feel uncomfortable with nudity.  It wouldn't be respectful to flaunt your wares.  And swearing... that's understood that others don't appreciate it. 

 

 

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Old 10-13-2011, 10:42 PM
 
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No advice here, just a lot of support. I'm very similar, radical unschooling and all, and it's tough to find friendships where parenting style isn't a tension. Even when I try not to even mention it, or ignore it when they do, there inevitably comes a point where I can't take being picked at about it, or having my children 'tested' in various ways to see if they have any hidden freak in them, since after all, it must be in there somewhere with the horrible parenting they receive. And then it becomes an issue, then it becomes a big spiral of unhappy. And then the friendship either just fades away or it's a big blow uppy thing. None of it good.

 

I understand what you're going through. Been there. There aren't any easy answers. My only advice is that when the friendship becomes more stresses than joys, it's time to let it go. Until or unless that happens, just keep her at arm's length on parenting style and enjoy the things you love about her.

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Old 10-14-2011, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Adia,

 

However the point is she doesn't really care.  She told me she can't imagine allowing half the stuff I allow.  We do respect each others wishes though.  When her kids are out somewhere with me.  Even though they're older than mine.  I follow her rules.  Most of her rules are based on fear.  Her 10 year old daughter is not allowed in a public bathroom by herself so I'll gather all the kids sans the boys and go in the bathroom with her.  Boys standing outside the door.  I don't for one minute want her to think I don't feel her points are not valid.  ( a little over the top sometimes)  When my kids are with her, she will gently remind them that swearing is not okay at her house and will give them different words for when they fall of the trampoline and such.   She knows my kids eat mostly health foods and will ask me in advance if they can have what they're having for dinner.  I always say yes because to them it's exciting to eat at their house.  And for some reason her kids think it's great to eat at mine.  One ate a whole pan of granola once and though it was AWESOME! 

 

Now aside from her, I do have other people to deal with that are actually difficult.  I don't get into spanking debates and I won't be goaded into other conversations that just don't jive with my views amongst friends.  Being in the military for so long you run into so many different people.  So many different views.

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Old 10-16-2011, 12:53 PM
 
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Now aside from her, I do have other people to deal with that are actually difficult.  I don't get into spanking debates and I won't be goaded into other conversations that just don't jive with my views amongst friends.  Being in the military for so long you run into so many different people.  So many different views.


That's interesting, and perhaps I have a lot to learn.  I always had this idea that military folks had one world view.  I'd be interested in hearing more.  

 


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Old 10-16-2011, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No you'd be amazed.  Since they all come from so many different walks of life they all have different views.  Breastfeeders, homeschoolers, foster parents, writers, teachers, gentle parents and of course mainstream parenting.  I was taught about breastfeeding and the importance from a Male Sgt in the Army.  Gentle parenting from a gaggle of ladies during PT and homeschooling was talked about often.  The stay at home dad was becoming big as I was getting out.  Quite a few military members are there for college and are working on their Masters or Second BA. They do their job and go about their lives.  I have 4 former AF friends big into the music industry now.  Two are straight out of SA and the other two have moved around.  The two in SA and getting bigger and it's quite exciting to see them go for their dreams.  Quite a few are writers and I just recently got one in the mail from Amazon and I'm excited to read it and give him my take on his writing.   I think I've found more people that were in the military work harder to make their dreams come true.  They know there is so much out there and being in the military was a great push to help them find themselves and meet so many great people. 
 

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That's interesting, and perhaps I have a lot to learn.  I always had this idea that military folks had one world view.  I'd be interested in hearing more.  

 



 

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Old 10-16-2011, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

  Since they all come from so many different walks of life they all have different views.  

 


One of the women I was in yoga teacher training with was active duty army and just back from 18 months in Iraq. She practices yoga every day as a way of staying sane. She did half her teacher training with us, and had made arrangements to do the second half with a different yoga school half way across the country were her next post was. Amazing woman. She also said there isn't a military type, people end up for all different reasons and the military is as diverse as the rest of the country.

 

The yoga teacher I had who encouraged me to go to teacher training was retired air force.

 

Neither of them were what one would stereo-type as "military."


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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Old 10-17-2011, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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check out Veteransforpeace.org

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Old 11-11-2011, 01:21 PM
 
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OP I love the freedom you give your girls I pretty much parent the same way. As far as the cussing goes I have 2 teens who I allow to cuss with exceptions those are not around other children,their teachers other school officals,employees,police,clergy,other adults,Grand Parents,etc.I'm not naive and I know that they will cuss around their peers no matter what.With that said my youngest does not cuss and knows those words are for older people.


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Old 11-11-2011, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I do think it teaches a good lesson for them to understand that outside the house there are certain things that really are not acceptable.  And to be fair and respectful of others.  I don't know I havent heard a swear word in weeks I think DD2 is over it. 

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OP I love the freedom you give your girls I pretty much parent the same way. As far as the cussing goes I have 2 teens who I allow to cuss with exceptions those are not around other children,their teachers other school officals,employees,police,clergy,other adults,Grand Parents,etc.I'm not naive and I know that they will cuss around their peers no matter what.With that said my youngest does not cuss and knows those words are for older people.



 

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Old 11-11-2011, 07:57 PM
 
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Well you know  the screen time and food make me cringe, haha! But I understand what you are doing and I know a lot of people who parent like you and have really engaged, responsible kids.  My kids free range pretty hard (easy, as we're in the middle of the woods) and have an extremely unstructured day...the homeschooling we're doing so far with my DD is extremely light, conversational and directed by her. I believe in and practice similar principles as you, but it's different because my kids are still so little.

 

I really like what you said about not assuming that, given the choice, kids will choose wrong. I feel like a lot of people make that assumption. So many of the important things in life, the TRULY important things which mark the difference between good, happy, loving/respectful people and unhappy, rude, selfish people...are incredibly self evident. Kids aren't stupid. When they are allowed to use their guts and feel their way through things, they can decide. It's a well supported idea, that children learn best (and really, isn't this true for most people?) through experience driven exercise. I think that, when it's not forced on them and they feel like autonomous and empowered human beings, children will confidently navigate situations and concepts as they arise and will choose good, respect, love, sharing, curiosity etc....if that's what is being modeled at home. (and sometimes even when it's not!)

 

The screen time, the food, swearing, etc....these are lifestyle choices, they are not adjectives. They do not describe a persons character. If left alone and given honest guidance in how they view the world...I believe a child is capable of deciding most limits for themselves, of deciding what kind of person they want to be, and can become highly successful people in their social and practical lives as a result.


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