Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think. - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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I'm glad you're calling.

But as to "nothing has happened in the eyes of the law" - that's not true. A teenaged boy pulled down a little girl's pants - that is abusive. It doesn't matter that her father and the boy say it didn't happen. Your daughter has made an accusation and it should be taken seriously by the law.
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#62 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
 
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Butterfly, I hope with all my heart that nothing has happened to her.  But from what you have said something obviously has.  I understand this is difficult and overwhelming.  You are doing the right thing and I certainly hope that everything works out in a positive way.  Do not be afraid of him do not give into him.  Even if he is not the culprit it's happened under his nose.  And you have every right to make sure it's investigated.  You said she has a cousin that lives in the home.  This may be the opportunity to be a voice for her too.  You never know if these things are affecting her as well.  

 

Good luck and positive thoughts your way.

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#63 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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Definitely tell DCFS that dad is a cop in the city. If you feel like DCFS isn't moving fast enough, call the state police and explain why you're contacting them and not the local police. Another option would be to call the county attorney/district attorney (depending on the system in Illinois).

 

I would also call the current pediatrician back. I would say "I was afraid to speak up when her dad was here, but I'm afraid that there might be signs of sexual abuse. Who do you recommend that I take her to? Would it be the same people you recommended before?" You NEED to get it on record with as many people as possible that you've seen the signs, stopped the visits and are being proactive. You want to make it crystal clear that you are advocating for your daughter, even though you're terrified of this man. One of the things a guardian ad litem does, if it comes to a legal battle, is talk to people like teachers and doctors. If the doctor says "well, I suspected, but mom called them lies" that's not going to look good. Then I'd switch peds.

 

Then, hire an attorney. Right now, he does not have a legal right to have this child in his home. He does not have a legal right to be at doctor's appointments. He does not have a legal right to be at therapist's appointments. It's CRUCIAL that he not be near the therapist with her. But he is going to fight you tooth and nail on this one. If a member of his family, or he himself, is guilty of abusing his daughter (and right now you have allegations with strong suspicions), his entire career and his entire image as a cop is on the line. You are going to be fighting a desperate man. You do not have the resources to do this alone. That's why you have to call in DCFS and anyone else you can get on your side. You need to stand on your legal rights and his lack of legal rights because he refused to sign the birth certificate. You need an attorney to back you up.

 

I would absolutely minimize all YOUR contact with him as well. The more you contact him, the more you lay yourself open to his bullying, abusive techniques. He is going to pull out every trick in the book and then invent a few to get  you to drop this. You want to give him as few opportunities to do that as possible. It would be great if you could have all communication be by text/e-mail.

 

(And just so you know, kids often behave beautifully for people they're scared of. They can't take the risk. With you, she knows she's safe and loved.)


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#64 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just finished making the report.  I think I'm going to pass out.  I'm so scared.  I'm scared that something has happened to my daughter.  I'm scared that nothing has happened...and I just made an (annoymous) report.  I'm just scared. 

 

All I told the person on the phone was Child said brothers pulled her pants down.  She asked if there was any sexual behavior displayed from Child.  I told her about the penetration and that my therapist(s) said that's rare for her age.  She said, "Ok, lets make a report."  She didn't want any other infor...said that was all she needed for an investigation. 

 

God, help us through this.  I'm sick. 

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#65 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflyBaby11 View Post

I just finished making the report.  I think I'm going to pass out.  I'm so scared.  I'm scared that something has happened to my daughter.  I'm scared that nothing has happened...and I just made an (annoymous) report.  I'm just scared. 

All I told the person on the phone was Child said brothers pulled her pants down.  She asked if there was any sexual behavior displayed from Child.  I told her about the penetration and that my therapist(s) said that's rare for her age.  She said, "Ok, lets make a report."  She didn't want any other infor...said that was all she needed for an investigation. 

God, help us through this.  I'm sick. 

You did the right thing.
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#66 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:42 PM
 
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Bearing in mind we are in a different state, here's how things have unfolded with my friend so far:

She found out about an incident with her dd from a third party. talked to the girl (age 7), got her story. Freaked out. Found out that certain mandated reporters had heard the story and were trying to decide what to do (they were actually considering calling CPS on my friend before she had any idea anything had happened). She talked to another mandated reporter, said she was reporting it to the police the next day. She went to the police and made a report. at some point she was contacted by CPS, they talked to her, took a quick look at her house and may continue involvement (or not). Sometime after the police report was made, maybe a week or so, the girl and her sister, who may have also been approached, had interviews with a special investigator. My friend was not allowed in to the interview, but apparently it was very gentle and child friendly. They started out by just chatting, getting the girls comfy, they played a little, had brand new stuffed animals to give them, and once the atmosphere was relaxed, got them to talk. that was several days ago, but they can only move so fast. Alot of the reason they can't just jump on it and make an arrest or even talk to the accused is because the authorities all have to get their ducks in a row so that they can go in there with a solid body of evidence and all the facts straight. It has been very difficult for my friend, who pretty much just wants to go cut the guys balls off now, but she doesn't want the case to be jeopardized by rushing things. Slow and steady wins the race, you stay on top of it, but know that action may take a little while.

 

Oh, and I agree with all the PPs who said you should seek new health care professionals. My friend told me about an earlier incident with the same daughter and someone else, and the therapist (mandated reporter) she talked to about it advised her to not report it, but get the guy to leave the island. This lack of action almost assuredly left the girl open to be victimized again.


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#67 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:52 PM
 
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You are a very strong woman. I am sending continued good thoughts your way.

 

LynnS6 makes good points.


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#68 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:57 PM
 
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Oh, OP. hug.gif
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#69 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can someone message me or something?  If you're open to talk...I really need someone. 
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#70 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 05:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflyBaby11 View Post A mother should never have to think about what to say/ask their child over the possibility of abuse. 


Really? A mother sending her child to a home where she is concerned about teenagers in the house should have conversations with her child about this frequently.

 

When I was a kid my mother often explained to me that nobody should ever touch my "private parts" and that I should tell her or a teacher if they did. I think that's pretty standard...

 

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/child-sexual-abuse/if-you-suspect

 

I am glad you are taking steps to get help for your daughter, but I find your attitude about this to be really odd. I can't imagine having any child tell me that her pants had been pulled down, without sitting down and having a serious chat about exactly what happened.


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#71 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Laggie View Post


 

I am glad you are taking steps to get help for your daughter, but I find your attitude about this to be really odd. I can't imagine having any child tell me that her pants had been pulled down, without sitting down and having a serious chat about exactly what happened.



I did. 

 

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#72 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 05:23 PM
 
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Oh gee leave the woman alone SHE DID REPORT IT! thank you OP for standing up for your DD I can't imagine how hard this is especially with an ex like that! YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.

 

Is there a friend you can call to come over IRL to get support right now? Your mom? Someone? I can't imagine being alone with this.

 

Have to go put DD to bed (or attempt to haha) I hope you can find some support tonight and I hope it's OK that I will be praying for your family. grouphug.gif


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#73 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 06:27 PM
 
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Oh gee leave the woman alone SHE DID REPORT IT! thank you OP for standing up for your DD I can't imagine how hard this is especially with an ex like that! YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.

 

Is there a friend you can call to come over IRL to get support right now? Your mom? Someone? I can't imagine being alone with this.

 

Have to go put DD to bed (or attempt to haha) I hope you can find some support tonight and I hope it's OK that I will be praying for your family. grouphug.gif


 


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#74 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 06:35 PM
 
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not the time.  And you never want to think it could happen.  EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post


Really? A mother sending her child to a home where she is concerned about teenagers in the house should have conversations with her child about this frequently.

 

When I was a kid my mother often explained to me that nobody should ever touch my "private parts" and that I should tell her or a teacher if they did. I think that's pretty standard...

 

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/types-of-sexual-assault/child-sexual-abuse/if-you-suspect

 

I am glad you are taking steps to get help for your daughter, but I find your attitude about this to be really odd. I can't imagine having any child tell me that her pants had been pulled down, without sitting down and having a serious chat about exactly what happened.



 

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#75 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 06:55 PM
 
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Op - I have tears in my eyes.  You are doing WONDERFULLY.  You are so BRAVE.  Sending much love your way.  (((hugs)))


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#76 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 09:07 PM
 
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OP- I'm glad that you made the report. There are definitely enough red flags. Don't worry about upsetting your DD's father or his family. This is about your DD and her well being everything else is on the back burner now. Keep us posted. hug.gifgoodvibes.gif


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#77 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 10:05 PM
 
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OP, another red flag for me is I believe you stated you were a victim of SA. It's my experience that people are drawn to the type of people they were surrounded by when they were little. If you had an abuser in your past, I would not be surprised if you (unwittingly) were attracted to an abuser in an adult relationship.

 

I worked with someone whose husband was arrested for molesting the neighborhood boys. While she was visiting him in prison (I never understood that,) she met a prison guard and they started dating. When I met him, it was very apparent that this guy was way scary. I told her to run from him and she told me I was wrong. They got married and he eventually molested her daughter. Where I saw scary she saw desirable. Not that you (or my friend) would ever consciously choose a child molester, but it just seems to so often be repetitive.

 

I don't know if there's any value in my statement, but it certainly concerned me when I read your comment.


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#78 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 10:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post

 

I am glad you are taking steps to get help for your daughter, but I find your attitude about this to be really odd. I can't imagine having any child tell me that her pants had been pulled down, without sitting down and having a serious chat about exactly what happened.


She DID! Actually, as a parent, you really want to leave the specific questioning to the experts.

 

She's right: No parent should have to think about this. It's sad that they do. And she's incredibly courageous to have contacted DCFS and filed a report.

 


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#79 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 10:36 PM
 
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I totally agree with Sunday Crepes and had thought that too but didn't say it... I am also wondering if he was sexually inappropriate with you (you don't have to answer, just think about it). My first husband (who is abusive but I don't believe is a ped) was very controlling and abusive. One way he was abusive to me was sexually. He never completely forced himself all the way on me, but it was close, and he forced many things that I was not into. (wow this is really personal but i feel a need to share). And because he was such a smooth manipulator, he made me feel guilty for not wanting it. I tried to talk to some women friends about it, but they didn't get it, they just took the attitude that sometimes we push our comfort zone to give someone else pleasure and that is normal. Now there is a lot more information on different types of abuse, but ten years ago, if you didn't have physical evidence, you weren't really abused. I also believe my ex was a victim of child sexual abuse because of certain things he said and did. So this gives me the perspective that in your situation,  1) "dad' is seriously messed up in the head, and no one is really safe from him. 2) there may be a legacy of abuse. 3) that legacy may not come directly from "dad" to your DD but through the son. 4) "dad" will be an enabler in that legacy, even if he isn't doing it himself.

I don't know if this helps, but it could be another clue in the larger picture.


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#80 of 143 Old 01-16-2012, 10:56 PM
 
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I just have to say that I agree with eclipse 100% on everything she has said.

OP, I hope you and your daughter never has to see him again.

 

And yes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying "lies". That is just awful.

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#81 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 05:07 AM
 
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What you do is you call CPS and they get to be the bad guys and say she's not allowed over there, if you're worried about saying it yourself.

 

CPS can't disclose who made the call, and if DD's father doesn't know about your suspicions, really it could've been anyone.  Don't worry too much about them, you're doing the right thing.

 

Sending my good vibes your way, and especially to your daughter. 


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#82 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 05:24 AM
 
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I think the OP needs support and reassurance for the action she's taking. Your finger pointing is not constructive so much as it's blameful.
 

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Originally Posted by churndash View Post

Oh my god. I want to vomit.

 

SOMEBODY IS RAPING YOUR BABY.

 

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE POLICE NOW.

 

I am physically sickened that your pediatrician and these therapists, mandated reporters all, haven't called the cops already.

 

What more do you need? A videotape of your child being molested?

 

You are living in denial and your child is the one suffering. For a YEAR this baby has been abused. OMFG. Wake up!



 

 


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#83 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 06:11 AM
 
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i am glad you called them.  you did the right thing. 


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#84 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 07:36 AM
 
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OP- so glad to hear you took the first step and filed the report.  Confused to hear that you are scared of your ex but still want to keep him in your DD's life (out of fear I'm presuming).   Him coming around grandma's house uninvited to pick an argument is really disturbing. Out of respect for your grandma at the least, I hope you can get a restraining order or something so this doesn't happen again when she is at grandmas house. Both Grandma and child should be safe from this man. I hope you can also do the same. If he's not legally entitled to it, stop contact with him. You're trying to keep the peace with a possible abuser or enabler. He doesn't deserve it. That he is a cop in your own town is frightening.  Little wonder you are so scared!  If he wants to be in his daughters life so badly then he should have to prove to the court why he should get a 2nd chance to be a good dad. If your daughter was abused while in his care, he should be held accountable.  Can you call the state cops and get a restraining order or something? I feel so bad for you that you can't even call your own cops for help.

Also, DO drop the current ped, and go back to your old one or get a new one. The fact that your ex persuaded you to change the dr you have always taken your DD to, and that he is a liar, raises red flags for me. Why did he want you to take your DD to this particular dr so badly?  Isn't it the same one his own teenage sons go to (the boys you suspect of abuse) ...If they were abused as children too, the ped must have missed the red flags there too, or did nothing about it. I hope she's not scared of him too. I can't understand why in the world it was NOT documented the time you called about her bleeding from the rectum. That is really disturbing. Find another ped fast and consider filing a complaint with this practice.

Your head must be spinning. Hope you can get a good lawyer advice asap. Does CPS know that there is another 5 yr old girl still living in this home?  Good grief!
 


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#85 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by churndash View Post

Oh my god. I want to vomit.

 

SOMEBODY IS RAPING YOUR BABY.

 

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE POLICE NOW.

 

I am physically sickened that your pediatrician and these therapists, mandated reporters all, haven't called the cops already.

 

What more do you need? A videotape of your child being molested?

 

You are living in denial and your child is the one suffering. For a YEAR this baby has been abused. OMFG. Wake up!




1. Get a hold of yourself, woman. For real. "SOMEBODY IS RAPING YOUR BABY" - was that completely necessary for any of us to have to read?

2. Read the whole thread before you comment, and

3. Please, in the future, take the time to recognize a completely overwhelmed mama who is in way over her head, very suddenly, and doing the best she can. Then, treat said mother appropriately, instead of trying to rip her heart out while she is in the grips of complete and sheer agonizing horror.


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#86 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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OP, you need to get it in your head this very second, that you are going to have to get nasty with this one. You know your Ex...hell, half the women on this thread "know" your ex. We married/dated and subsequently ran like our pants were on fire AWAY from that dude. We all know that "a-hole ex" PLUS a shiny badge equals MAJOR blow-back as soon as he figures out what you are trying to assert has gone down here.

 

You need a good lawyer, the best you can reasonably afford. Recording conversations with your DD is good...but you also need to be documenting every conversation you have with your ex. I might even try the following:

 

1. Get an answering machine, the old-school kind that records on an actual tape.

2. When you need to have a serious conversation about something with him, the "confrontation" about this whole thing...call him when you know he can't answer and tell him you want to talk about all of this and to call you back asap.

3. When he calls, let it go to the machine and then pick it up just as it starts recording....then fumble a little bit, saying something like "ugh, voicemail is broken, I had to hook up this machine and I don't know how to make this recording thingie stop" - he thinks you're stupid enough that this may fly...and as the conversation continues he may forget he's being recorded...and depending upon what state you are in, the whole "ugh, I don't know how to make this thing stop recording" might count as "enough" for meeting the "you can't record someone without informing them that they are being recorded" requirement.

 

It may amount to nothing...but it may be your one chance to get him to give "his version" of what happened in an off the cuff manor. 

 

Oh, and record ALL conversations you have with your DD on the phone from his house. You can even tell her "I'm going to record this conversation so I can remember it later, okay" - I dn't know, just in case or whatever. Then move on to whatever it she is calling about. May not be admissible in court later...but it may be. Some judges are just crazy....that can work in your favor, or not.

 

As for the red flags thing...dude, I'm sorry, without the teenage boys thing and the pants being pulled down (which IS abuse, in and of itself! humiliation, control, shaming - the SA trifecta!) and all of that stuff....this man would not be watching my DD under any circumstances. He lost me at being a creepy, controlling, stalker. Period. The movie thing and not letting her call you...that's all "icing". He's a shitty man. Period.

 

I don't want to be too tough on you, because you're going through a lot....but I want you to know that not only COULD he be involved in abusing your DD...he probably is. Yeah, I said that.

 

My ears perked up BIG TIME when I heard him say "she's lying". - yeah, sorry dad, but you lose. My husband would lose his freaking MIND at the mention of someone pulling down DDs pants, especially in the context that she is having "behavior problems". I don't think it would even MATTER if it were true, he would fly so hard off the handle over that. Now I, the girls mama, would take her some place safe and talk to her, hug her up and try to find out what was going on....but I don't know a single respectable father, whose first response to that information wouldn't be to completely lose it and go WAY over protective of his daughter. No "good" father hears "they pulled my pants down" and jumps to "you're lying". The first thought is "MY LITTLE GIRL!! WHAT???" and then ACTION to try and protect her.

 

He is protecting people who are victimizing his DD.  You need to start thinking of him as an abuser, just get yourself in that frame of mind with him, because his home is acting as shelter for people who have shamed, humiliated and potentially further abused your daughter.

 

Who is worse? The teenaged boy who abuses his sister....or the father who stands in the way of stopping it and calls her a liar? What a pig.

 

The man who made my childhood a living hell was the "nicest guy you'd ever want to meet". NOBODY saw how sick he was. He was "Mr. Dreamboat". There were red flags absolutely ALL over the place. Down to making fun of my body (in a sexual way) in front of people. When I was 8. Yeah. My mother was "SO lucky he was so willing to step in and be a father to her three young kids" - yeah, well, two of us were little girls, so that was a bargain price for him. I was in my late teens when a school counselor reported the situation and set the ball in motion. My mother believed me...and then proceeded, after he was settled somewhere else, to allow my smallest sister (his bio DD) to have visitation with him, off the books. She was five. She's a young woman now. We've just recently discovered that it really wasn't "just me"...he's a fucking abuser and he molested my little sister, too. Nobody ever told her why our parents got divorced. Can you imagine? I left home right after everything went down and he moved out and I didn't even know for years...can you imagine my guilt at the fact that, when I did find out, I believed my mother, that it was "just me" and that he would never do that to her? I was still so deep in shame and selfhate that I believed it HAD to have been me. :(

 

Your head is not clear on this. He emotionally and mentally abused you....you are probably not even fully out of that fog. You still can't see him clearly, even as much as you hate him now. The PP upstream who said that she considered your history of SA to be another red flag that your ExH might be an abuser, is 100% correct. I say that as a survivor...whose mother is also a survivor....whose mother was also a survivor. I don't know why this happens, but it does. Neat little chains down the line. You married him. Red flag for SA number one. He turned out to be a controlling a-hole, who stalked you and emotionally abused you. Red flag for SA number two, even if he never laid a hand on you or tried to SA you even once. Everything else just makes sense after that. Everything just fits.

 

Document everything. EVEN THE THINGS THAT DON"T MATTER. If he gets nasty and aggressive with you, I don't care if you are straight up lying(in ways that can't be caught) on the report...file a protection order/restraining order. He is a cop, he already has more control. Take out a restraining order on him and claim whatever you have to. Threats, menacing....as long as there is no one there to act as a witness to the contrary, say whatever(within reason) that you have to, "I'm afraid he is going to kill me for embarrassing him with these allegations" - then buy a gun. He tries to come around you after that, shoot him in the goddamned face. I love ya, mama, you're obviously fighting the "good fight" right now.....but you're a little weak on the "kicking his ass" part of this. This dude is straight up harboring young men who have humiliated and shamed your daughter and, most likely, worse. Treat him as such. Maybe not OPENLY right now, when you want him to cooperate and not realize how serious you are....but in your "heart of hearts" you need to start calling this piece of poop what it is. No more of this "I know in my heart he would...." this or that or whatever. It happened in HIS house. From here on out, you assume the worst about this a-hole. You can mend fences later. Something happened to her. He called her a liar. Game Over for dad. Period.

 

Don't make things any harder for yourself than you have to...but don't be "pollyanna princess" with this prick either. Do what you have to do. Do not assume anything is just going to "work out" in your favor. Fight this hard, before you have to.....starting with a good lawyer.

 

You have just little enough evidence that things could be wishy-washy. That means be smart. Document everything. Be on YOUR best behavior. Assume he's gonna go apeshit on you. Don't tell him a damn thing that he doesn't need to know. Period. Do not tip your hand to this dude.

 

 

Good luck. We are here for you. Don't mess around with this mama....I hear a bit of "timid" left over in your voice. You are not married to this creep anymore. He does not hold any control over you. He is not protecting your child. SOMEBODY HAS TO. That somebody, is YOU. This is the time for FIERCE. MAMA BEAR. DO IT.

 

 

 


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#87 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 11:36 AM
 
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If you can't afford a lawyer. call Legal Aid. Even when they are already stretched to the max with their caseload, they will usually find a way to help someone in as terrible a situation as you. They put a priority on abuse cases, and severity counts.


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#88 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

If you can't afford a lawyer. call Legal Aid. Even when they are already stretched to the max with their caseload, they will usually find a way to help someone in as terrible a situation as you. They put a priority on abuse cases, and severity counts.


She is in Illinois and she said her gma will help her get the best lawyer. 


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#89 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 02:24 PM
 
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Ah, right, sorry, trying to keep up.... but maybe my comment will be helpful to someone else anyway.

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#90 of 143 Old 01-17-2012, 03:12 PM
 
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OP- One thing you need to keep in mind is that your DD's father is a mandated reporter. He himself in his profession is required by law to report any sort of abuse and he obviously has not done so. That would look great on him by the way, if he ever tried to get visitation. Also, if the pediatrician has not reported this, they can be referred to the Illinois State Medical Disciplinary Board for legal action. You need to realize that your Ex legally doesn't have a leg to stand on. Not only is he not on the birth certificate, he doesn't have any legal visitation, no custody, and is a complete piece of sh!t. I can understand being scared. But take BroodyWoodsgal's advice and get a restraining order/EPO and a gun.

 

Here is a link you need to look at: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1460&ChapterID=32

 

 

It's a to get through, but I would read as much of it as you can.


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