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#121 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 06:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Well, in our state it has to do with the massive decrease in state funding for the university system. Similar things have happened in CA. 


That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s.  It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade. 

 

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#122 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 07:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post


 

Well, I managed to put a whopping $19.50/month away for my oldest. It hurt. There were months when I cursed that money coming out of my grocery funds. So...yeah - it can be really easy to not put money away, depending on your financial situation.

 

I don't really understand your second question, as phrased. But, money is a factor when considering post-secondary. The fact that some parents can afford to pay the whole thing doesn't mean it's not a factor - it just means it's not a factor for the student. And, frankly - I think it's very good for my son to have to look at every penny and figure out what he can actually afford and what he can't. His post-secondary education is his baby, not mine. We help by providing a free roof and food (which is a lot). We help him figure out paperwork. I'm not leaving him high and dry - but I'm also not going to screw over my whole family in the here and now to pay for schooling they might want in the future. DH makes a good living, but there are six of us, and it's expensive to live here. We don't live in a super frugal fashion (esp. by, say, the MDC F&F forum), but we're not living a lavish lifestyle, either. The balance is about right fior us at the moment, and I'm not throwing everything out of whack to pay for an education my kids may or may not want in the future. (Once our van is paid off, we'll probably put some away, because it's really important to dh to do that.)

 

I definetly do not put away money each month, I may go 6 months without putting in a dime. The point is that the account is open, there is money in it and its a start. 

 

I believe in the next 16 years, no matter my financial situation, the money will continue to accumulate, I do want to pay for my children's post secondary, and thats the fundamental difference between me and you. You feel you rather have your children budget accordingly and choose wisely what school they should attend, which is fine, I want him to just choose and not worry about the large amount of debt he could face after school, the education is the utmost important thing here, not the money, I dont want money to be any part of his experience, I would love for him to graduate debt free, and right now, thats the biggest goal for me


 

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post


By choosing to eat instead.  wink1.gif

 

I can afford to put some away for my kids education, but my parents really could not.  We always ate and had shelter - but could not afford any extras.  

 

I do want to be able to support my kids while they are in university - mostly because I know how hard it is to start out life deep in student loan debt - but I do not feel I have to in order to be a good parent.  I put it under "nice" and "do it if you can" but not under essential.  

 

Why would you not make a start? Your in Canada, you'll have i think its $500? put in as soon as you open it....bam, it's started
 

 



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Originally Posted by cristeen View Post


Actually, if you read what I said, I said that "We have no intention of paying for their schooling though - if we can we will, but they will not know that until after the fact."  We will however be in the position to cover room/board if they go to any number of local colleges (including excellent colleges like Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCSF, etc.).  If we are in the financial position to help them pay off their loans after graduation, we will.  However, we cannot anticipate right now what our finances will look like in 20+ years, since right now we're still accumulating student loan debt of our own.  Regardless we are planning to raise them with the expectation that they are going to have to work for it.  Even if I had it to give them, I'm not going to hand them $100K and tell them to have fun at college, I don't believe in a free ride.  They can work their way through college, and we can help them in whatever way(s) we can. 

 

I can't help if you find that odd, it's what we believe to be best for our children. 


 


I was raised with this expectation, so I do know how it feels.  There are many a day when I feel like a failure for the fact that I don't have a degree, just like I feel like one for choosing to SAHM.  I have been exploring going back to school for a degree lately for exactly this reason, even though my "dream job" doesn't require one.  But the fact is that following my dreams is going to be expensive.  And if anything were to happen to DH (the breadwinner), I'd be up a creek without a paddle just trying to support myself and 2 kids in our current home, because I don't have a degree.  Around here it seems the best I can do right now is about $12/hr, because even to answer phones, everyone wants a Bachelors.  I couldn't pay the mortgage and buy groceries on that kind of income, much less pay for childcare.  I don't want my children to be in this position when they're my age (or DH's age).  I will have the expectation that they will get a degree or a vocation.  But I will also talk to them a lot about the difference between a job to pay the bills/support self and family, and a dream, and that one can be a means to the other, they don't actually have to be the same thing.  Because that's the trap *I* fell into. 

 

How not?  Because I'm more concerned with paying the mortgage, saving a bit for retirement, keeping the house standing around us, keeping food on the table, etc.  Saving for college is low man on the totem pole at this point.  My kids will be able to get scholarships, grants, loans, etc., to pay for school when they reach that point.  I cannot get loans for any of the above things. 

 

I'm curious how much college costs in Canada right now.  We seem to have several Canadian moms who are stumped at the attitudes some of us US moms are taking, so I'm wondering if we can compare some dollar figures.  What does a 4 year degree cost in Canada from a public school?  Private school?  Do you have both public and private schools, I don't even know...?


The US is more expensive for schooling, and i believe to my understanding, there isnt the same loans as here either.  A average semester of college is say $1700, a average semester of university is $3000 

 

you mean private colleges? yes, but they normally arent "accredited" and focus on the arts and at a high cost 

 



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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

 

I don't actually know. But, it's not just about the cost of education. It's about the cultural imperative to get a post-secondary education in the first place. I'm not saying they're not valued in Canada, but they're not, ime, expected to the same degree that they are in the US. I think you've actually got a nasty cycle going on there, to tell the truth. Everybody has to get a degree, no matter what it costs, so everyone gets a degree, no  matter what it costs, so everybody has to have a degree, no matter what it costs. I can't even conceive of being unable to get a job answering phones without a Bachelors degree. We're heading that way, but we're not there yet. I find it extremely bizarre, and insanely counterproductive. And, having answered phones as a big part of my job for many years, it honestly blows my mind that anyone would require a degree for the job.
 

 


I disagree, I think in Canada it is mandatory to have a degree or diploma in order to sustain a life-long career now, or at least get over the $20 an hour hurdle. Without post secondary, your left with retail, restaurant and calling centres as you said, everything else requires years of ladder climbing or schooling.   

 



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Originally Posted by Mulvah View Post


Maybe you aren't aware of this, so I'll just share with you that many, many, many people struggle to provide food and shelter for their families and are unable to provide more than the basic necessities. 


Well, thats was rude and very insulting

 

 

 


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#123 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 07:23 AM
 
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You might even need to revise that downwards, lol.  DS is in 4th grade and a project his class is working on is planning their education based on a career goal.  So, they have to identify a career choice they are interested in, determine what degree they would need to get, research one state school and one out of state school they could get the education (including cost of that education), identify any other things they should be doing on the way to that (including what high school classes they would need to take, what activities, etc...). Oh, and then make a powerpoint presentation with the information. They are doing this all in class, so I'm really interested to see what info they'll come up with.

 



4th grade?!?!?!?  I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school?????? 

 

dizzy.gif

 

If anyone needs me, I'll be under my desk, with a bottle of bourbon, rocking back and forth and softly crying.

 

Seriously, thank you, TiredX2, for the heads-up.

 

With regards to the rising costs and how to cope:  I did not attend college.  I commanded the same salary (sometimes more, which makes me sad) as many of my college-educated friends without the burden of student loans.  I like the idea I believe Linda on the move described.  We are already budgeted and accustomed to one income, and have been since before I left the workforce.  This was our way of planning for a rainy day.  My salary was always gravy.  So, granted, our potatoes are now somewhat drier, but when I head back to the workforce it will be found money.  Perhaps for a year or two we can just set the whole amount aside and send our children to a nice, solid state school.  I sincerely hope the value of a college education versus the cost has somewhat equalized at that time.  As I see it, right now, pick the wrong field of study (and it's so easy to pick the wrong field of study, it seems) and you just burned many thousands of dollars.  I'm admittedly lacking experience with ongoing education, but that is my view, for better or for worse.

And I do, wholeheartedly, intend to see to my own retirement before seeing to her education. 

 

 


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#124 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s.  It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade. 

 



I think the tuition at private schools is crazy, considering the endowments some of them have. However, they do make great efforts to see that qualified kids get to attend. Dd's school is about 40k, but she has 10k in dean's scholarships, 4k in one kind of aid and 5k for something else that came through last minute when we weren't sure if we could get it together. She earns 8k as an RA and does work study. She also got Pell grants her first two years (PP had said you have to be under 50k salary to get those but we are way over and she got them). We priced out what it would cost her at the university here where dh is a professor. Even with half off as an employee dependent it was about the same cost and we believe she has a better education for her field at the private school.

 

And yay! She's far enough away she can't come home every weekend.

 

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#125 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

I disagree, I think in Canada it is mandatory to have a degree or diploma in order to sustain a life-long career now, or at least get over the $20 an hour hurdle. Without post secondary, your left with retail, restaurant and calling centres as you said, everything else requires years of ladder climbing or schooling.   



There are people from the US here talking about needing a degree to get entry level positions. Yes - you probably need a degree to sustain a life-long career in most fields, even in Canada. But, that's not what I was talking about (I don't think in terms of a career - never have, because I've never wanted one). You don't, ime, need a degree to get a crappy entry level job. I have yet to meet anyone who needed a degree to get a job answering phones.


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#126 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post



There are people from the US here talking about needing a degree to get entry level positions. Yes - you probably need a degree to sustain a life-long career in most fields, even in Canada. But, that's not what I was talking about (I don't think in terms of a career - never have, because I've never wanted one). You don't, ime, need a degree to get a crappy entry level job. I have yet to meet anyone who needed a degree to get a job answering phones.



I agree.  Just an example, there are literally hundreds of entry-level Office Technician and Office Assistant jobs at the State of California that do not require a degree of any sort -I get several email alerts a week for these jobs from the State's job board.  Same with customer service call center jobs with medical offices and medical insurance companies, I've applied for more than a dozen of these jobs.  They do not require any degree, even an Associates.  That's why I bother to apply!

 

But it's important to note that while a degree isn't on the list of Requirements, it is on the list of Preferences, and of course the robo resume filter programs pick resumes with degrees over resumes without.  And the job market is flooded with people with post-secondary degrees trying to get a job, any job.  Just as an aside, and this is the subject for another thread, it's maddening how a person can't even get past the resume-submission stage to the face-to-face interview.  You're not a person, you're a resume. 

 

I completely agree with you, we've gotten ourselves into a pickle with this post-secondary education push here in the US. 


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#127 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

There seems to be a lot of variety in pay scale for video game tester.  I have a cousin who does it and I would be very surprised if he earned more than 15$ an hour - no where near $50 000.



There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech".  We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr.  DH does the latter.  They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games.  However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?"  "He tests software."  That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be.  But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr.  winky.gif


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#128 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

The US is more expensive for schooling, and i believe to my understanding, there isnt the same loans as here either.  A average semester of college is say $1700, a average semester of university is $3000 

 


 

If that's all we were looking at, I'd be planning on paying for it, too.  Like the numbers I posted yesterday show though, that's nothing near what we can expect, even with the local schools.  If we have to worry about room/board on top of that.  Ugh. 


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#129 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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I think a lot of people forget that there are kinds of education that don't involve going to school. My DH worked as a school bus driver and is now the yard manager at the bus company. He has a high school education and a class 2 license (the bus company actually paid for his training to get the license, too) It's not as well-paying as some jobs that require a college education, but it has extended health and our bills are paid each month. I do after school care, when I got started it was daycare and all I needed for that was a few good references and a first aid certificate. I don't need a vehicle, work clothes or to pay for childcare for my own kids, and I'd have to have a pretty well paying job to still make what I do after those expenses. 
 

I plan on making sure my kids each have their drivers license, a first aid certificate and things like Food Safe and WHMIS by the time they graduate high school. Those sort of things are what save you if you hit a road block in your career pursuits. I definitely want the kids to have a college education, but they need to have a fall-back, too. The job market changes and it's different all over... in Calgary DH said if one job didn't work out you could get another one the next day, here he put in over 1000 resumes and got 4 or 5 interviews.


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#130 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by journeymom View Post



I agree.  Just an example, there are literally hundreds of entry-level Office Technician and Office Assistant jobs at the State of California that do not require a degree of any sort -I get several email alerts a week for these jobs from the State's job board.  Same with customer service call center jobs with medical offices and medical insurance companies, I've applied for more than a dozen of these jobs.  They do not require any degree, even an Associates.  That's why I bother to apply!

 

But it's important to note that while a degree isn't on the list of Requirements, it is on the list of Preferences, and of course the robo resume filter programs pick resumes with degrees over resumes without.  And the job market is flooded with people with post-secondary degrees trying to get a job, any job.  Just as an aside, and this is the subject for another thread, it's maddening how a person can't even get past the resume-submission stage to the face-to-face interview.  You're not a person, you're a resume. 

 

I've been lucky, and have worked for two wonderful managers (consider both of them to have been personal mentors). Both of them screened their own resumes when they hired (or had their assistant do it, not HR). They actually both tended to skip over people with degrees, because they were hiring for entry/low level positions (accounting/operations clerks, Girl Friday, etc.). They both felt that someone who had put in the time and money for a degree was unlikely to stay there for very long. Admittedly, they both felt lucky to get me, because I was much smarter than average (god - that sounds so snooty - never have been comfortable coming out and saying that), but completely lacking in ambition. So, I was very good at the job, and totally uninterested in going anywhere else. My first boss - not my first job ever, but my first office job - ended up keeping me until the company sold, and she retired...eight years after I was hired. She kept expecting me to quit to go back to school, but I wasn't interested. (I will admit the annual 10% raises didn't hurt.)

 

I completely agree with you, we've gotten ourselves into a pickle with this post-secondary education push here in the US. 

 

I remember talking to my MIL about dh's youngest brother at one point. She was talking about his aimlessness (he's had quite an assortment of short-term ambitions), and I commented that maybe he'd be happier becoming a plumber or electrician or something. My MIL gave me this really strange look, and said, "you mean, go into the trades?". You'd have thought I'd suggested sex work or something (and, for the record, I actually have nothing against sex work, if a woman honestly wants to do it...but I think the industry is vile). I was really taken aback, but she was honestly horrified by the idea of her son having a career that didn't require a degree. (Don't get me wrong. My MIL is a wonderful woman, and I love her to bits. She just has a very different world view than I do in some areas.)

That's part of what I meant about Canada vs. the US. I know lots of Canadians who are pro-colege/university. I haven't met too many, if any, Canadians who would react with horror at the idea of their child becoming an electrician.



 


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#131 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mummoth View Post

I think a lot of people forget that there are kinds of education that don't involve going to school. My DH worked as a school bus driver and is now the yard manager at the bus company. He has a high school education and a class 2 license (the bus company actually paid for his training to get the license, too) It's not as well-paying as some jobs that require a college education, but it has extended health and our bills are paid each month. I do after school care, when I got started it was daycare and all I needed for that was a few good references and a first aid certificate. I don't need a vehicle, work clothes or to pay for childcare for my own kids, and I'd have to have a pretty well paying job to still make what I do after those expenses. 
 

I plan on making sure my kids each have their drivers license, a first aid certificate and things like Food Safe and WHMIS by the time they graduate high school. Those sort of things are what save you if you hit a road block in your career pursuits. I definitely want the kids to have a college education, but they need to have a fall-back, too. The job market changes and it's different all over... in Calgary DH said if one job didn't work out you could get another one the next day, here he put in over 1000 resumes and got 4 or 5 interviews.


Oops - I missed this post. This is what I mean about Canadian vs. US attitudes. (And, I'll admit I could be wrong, but I've noticed many times. My bff also moved to the US a few years ago, and has commented on it more than once.) This kind of thing just wouldn't be an acceptable option to some people I've met, and those people are all American. I'm not saying it's a universal thing in the US, but this idea that life without a degree is meaningless (yes - I'm exaggerating a little) does seem to be a widespread cultural influence in the US, and not quite so much in Canada.

 

Of course, I'm a misfit, either way. I was no more likely to get my driver's license as a teen than I was to go to college. That was more terror than lack of interest, but it was still true. I got my license a few months after I started posting at MDC...at 37, with my third child on the way. :o


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#132 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 01:59 PM
 
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Oops - I missed this post. This is what I mean about Canadian vs. US attitudes. (And, I'll admit I could be wrong, but I've noticed many times. My bff also moved to the US a few years ago, and has commented on it more than once.) This kind of thing just wouldn't be an acceptable option to some people I've met, and those people are all American. I'm not saying it's a universal thing in the US, but this idea that life without a degree is meaningless (yes - I'm exaggerating a little) does seem to be a widespread cultural influence in the US, and not quite so much in Canada.

 

Of course, I'm a misfit, either way. I was no more likely to get my driver's license as a teen than I was to go to college. That was more terror than lack of interest, but it was still true. I got my license a few months after I started posting at MDC...at 37, with my third child on the way. :o



I got my license when I was 25. I'm 34 now and haven't driven for years... every once in a while I decide I'm going to get over the fear and practice for a few weeks or months, but it doesn't get better. It's so bad that I'm probably dangerous, even though I appear to be a very good driver. 

 

My brothers-in-law have a 5th grade and 3rd grade education, and they're both able to support their families on a single income (way up north, but still) The one who dropped out in 5th grade makes over $100 grand/year... he's got his GED, but I don't think he really needed to get it. He started going to work with his dad by the time he was 12, so he had lots of relevant experience before he did it... it just looks better on the resume, I guess.

 

ETA: one thing I think a lot of people undervalue is happiness! DH LOVES his job, he comes home tired but happy at night. That has way, way more impact on our quality of life than more money would. He's got a 5 minute commute to work and I think that's another thing that's important to consider when choosing where to work, though I guess that's not relevant to college/no-college.


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#133 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 02:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

There seems to be a lot of variety in pay scale for video game tester.  I have a cousin who does it and I would be very surprised if he earned more than 15$ an hour - no where near $50 000.



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Originally Posted by cristeen View Post



There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech". We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr. DH does the latter. They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games. However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?" "He tests software." That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be. But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr. winky.gif



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Originally Posted by cristeen View Post



There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech". We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr. DH does the latter. They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games. However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?" "He tests software." That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be. But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr. winky.gif


cristeen answered that for me.  Someone said their son was wanted to test video games.  I said there were two "career paths" to that--- one (which is probably what he is picturing) is playing games.  Another is testing them for quality/acceptability/etc...  The second is probably going to require a degree, one is computer science would probably be best.  I don't actually know of *any* jobs in the first (because you can often get people to do that for free, lol, in beta testing *or* they just do early releases to their programming/testing employees).  If a child is interested in video game testing there are a lot of career paths that can involve them in game technology *and* have a good living attached.

 

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Originally Posted by MrsGregory View Post

4th grade?!?!?!?  I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school?????? 

 

dizzy.gif

 

If anyone needs me, I'll be under my desk, with a bottle of bourbon, rocking back and forth and softly crying.

 

Seriously, thank you, TiredX2, for the heads-up.

 


 

I think DS' teacher is a *little* bit "forward" on this one, to be clear.  DD never had to do anything like this!  He had the same teacher and they had an equally, what I considered age inappropirate, assignment.  But there are definately kids ready for it and it's interesting to see the kids trying to figure out how to translate their current interests into a future job.



 


 

 

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#134 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting.  I'm fully against my kids taking out loans for school.  If all is well for them after wards, they will have years of debt already accrued.  I know there is noway that I'll ever be able to pay for all their college.  As much as I save it seems like there is always something that comes up.  I would feel pretty icky putting money away for college but making them wait for dental work.  That's where I'm at.  I do want them to go though.  I just won't tell them the world will end if they don't.  I do want them to understand that's a good thing if they do and I know that I can help them with the process and also with the things they need.  Right now I'm wishing I didn't even think about it all since it seems so enormous and so financially hard.  Around where I'm at in SA, a degree helps, but since we're becoming and IT hub certifications are required.  I had three certifications that were required for my job and I have them.  Now they want one more.  And I'll get it.  Those cost money too.  I've been lucky enough that I understand it all without extra training.  I've read the books and just taken the tests while others have shelled out thousands for extra training and have still failed them.  LUCKY!  That's how I feel.  I did let my boss know that I would be going to college in the summer.  He reminded me that I still need that other certification and not to put it aside like everyone else has done to attend school.  A degree will get me nowhere where I'm at.  My certifications will.  They turned down three people these past few weeks for a position because all they had was a degree in IT security.  Nice but not enough.  The starting pay in my field is 65k and with all your certs you're looking at 6 figures starting.  STARTING...  and experience is not required.  Why, because you have to be trained specifically for this job.  Training you only get on the job since it's a cleared field I'm working in. 

 

To be honest, I'd be okay with my kids joining the military.  Doing four years and coming out with college paid for.  Only the intelligence field though.  They generally don't send intel to war, we fight from conus.  Even if they were in a deployment bucket, training is so long that they literally will not have enough time for a deployment if they only do four years.  My training took me 2 years.  Then you still have on the job training (OJT) that could take up to 6 months.  There are some that are longer.  And the commitment is still 4 years active 4 inactive. 

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All the talk of the cost of tuition motivated me to look up how much school costs now at the relatively inexpensive state school I went to. Tuition is $240 per credit hour and $120 in fees per credit hour. According to their webpage you can expect university to run 15k per year. A local private college will run you 34k per year with room and board.

 

My kids will probably end up using student loans for a large part of college. My husband and I have talked about paying their student loans for a set number of years after they graduate, gradually decreasing the amount we pay and increasing the amount they pay as they move into more stable and better paying jobs after graduation.

 

 


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Originally Posted by queenjane View PostAlso, my state has a program where any child who is on Medicaid for at least 18 months from sixth grade on can qualify to have the first two years (and possibly the second two as well) of college instate paid. Hopefully that will still be around in a few years!

 

 



Where do you live? And how is the cost of living?

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Quote: Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post
 

If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children know that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that you can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.  2cents.gif

 

 

I totally agree with you! I graduated high school when I was sixteen and my parents basically forced me to go to the most expensive university possible and made me sign the student loan forms to go. I had no desire to go to college at the time I wanted to just get a job at a coffee shop and go backpacking... but anyways I was stuck going to college that was a pass fail school so none of the credits transfered anywhere. As soon as I turned eighteen I dropped out and got my first job as a barista and traveled to my hearts content with 20k of student loan debt of course. I still resent it especially since they constantly bring up how I wasted their time getting me into a university.... College is overrated! I plan for my kids to go to community college if they want or get a job doing whatever and they can stay at home after graduating high school either way.


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Personally, I think state schools and community colleges get a bad rap. If you're not sure about what you want to do with your degree, or even whether a degree is right for you, it's much better to find that out before you go deeply into debt. One of the things I love about teaching at a state school with a non-traditional (a.k.a. older) population is that my student know why they're there. They may be completely overstretched, but very few of them are unmotivated.

 

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Originally Posted by Cyllya View Post

I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, so I found a college that looked good (to my naive 17-year-old self), applied, prayed, got accepted, got good grades, and got a Bachelor's degree. I had job skills for a brief period after graduating, but within a year I either forgot them or they became obsolete. I have a buttload of debt and I work at a minimum wage job that I don't like, because it's the only job I can do. If it weren't for my fiance and my mom paying some of my bills, I wouldn't be able to survive right now.


See, here's where I wonder what kind of help you were getting from your parents. You needed some guidance and talk about careers and goals. You probably would have been better off going to a community college and figuring out what you wanted to be when you grew up. One of the problems I have with smaller colleges is that because the tuition is so high, if you switch majors, you may not be able to finish your degree in time, and you can't afford a 5th year. So some students end up with degrees in fields that they're not that interested in just to be done. You really have to know that the college is right for you and your future goals.

 

I was really enamored of a pricey, private institution on the East Coast. l thought I wanted to do biomedical engineering. My parents helped me look at the prices, the amount loans I'd have to take out, and reminded me that our state university had an excellent engineering college. I'm very grateful. I took 2 terms of engineering prereqs  before I discovered it was the wrong field. When the engineering department told me I couldn't study abroad because it would mess up my schedule of courses, that solidified it. They were boring and inflexible. No slam on engineers, but that's how I knew it wasn't the right field for me. I tried out pre-med and came to the conclusion that these people were hypercompetitive, cut-throat, and more interested in money than I was. I also discovered that I really didn't care about the difference between the pig's spleen and the pig's liver when I was dissecting animals. I sort of figured that a doctor should probably care. My third field, German, was a perfect fit. It gave me absolutely zero marketable skills, but I got a dynamite education, and continued on in the general area. I learned to write, think and learn. For ME liberal arts is what I needed.

 

But, if I'd been at a private college, I'd probably not have switched majors. I wouldn't have been able to spend a whole year living on my own in Germany (on scholarship). I'd be a miserable engineer, or someone who was not using her degree at all. As it is, my ability to try out several different majors for a fairly low cost (OK, so I have a full year of chemistry more than I needed to graduate, oh well. I kind of liked organic chemistry and calculus anyway, even though I never use them.) I'm grateful that my parents convinced me not to go to a pricey school.

 

I strongly suspect that at least one of kids will end up at a state institution for similar reasons. Ds would probably thrive at a smaller institution, but I'm pretty sure dd is going to need a bigger place because her interests are so diverse (teaching? pastor? social worker? lawyer? vet?).


 

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Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

      Quote:


That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s.  It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade. 

 


I agree that private tuition is insane. You know what they're doing? They're charging full price to the 2% of the population who can afford it (though those people probably make up a much larger chunk of the student body than 2%), and using that money to fund scholarships for students who can't. It's an ironic form of socialism, really.

 

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Originally Posted by MrsGregory View Post



4th grade?!?!?!?  I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school?????? 

 

dizzy.gif

 

 

It's not all that bad. And it's a really good idea for kids whose parents didn't go to college. 4th grade might be a little young for that degree of planning, but realistically, kids need that information before they get to high school. If you don't  understand that you need 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 years of science and 2-4  years of a foreign language to get into college, it's going to be hard if you want to go. Our son did something similar (though not as in depth) this year. He had to list 3-4 possible careers, choose one and tell what kind of education he'd need to get to do that career. Given the demographics of that school (a lot of children whose parents are immigrants to the US), I was thrilled to see them do this exercise. It's helping to teach children the cultural capital that's the subject of a big TAO thread right now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cristeen View Post


The local community colleges are $36/unit right now for CA residents, they do not offer Bachelor's degrees (ETA - guess I should say FT is considered 12+ units)

CSU system (public school) is currently $5,472/year for CA residents, out of state students pay more

UC Berkeley (public school) is over $7K/semester (2 semesters per year not counting summer) for CA residents, out of state students pay more

Stanford (private school) is over $13K/quarter (3 quarters per year not counting summer)

Mills (private school) is over $38K/year

 

None of those prices include the various campus/school fees, room/board, class fees or books.  And these numbers have increased dramatically in the last 15 years.  When I was at community college, it was $9/unit, 1/4 of what it is now.  What's it going to be in another 15 years when my kids are contemplating those classes? 

 

Community college is a steal in CA compared to Oregon:

Community college: $79 / credit, plus an obligatory $6.70 in fees (technology fee and student activity fee), plus a $20 per term student services fee.

Oregon University System varies:

Oregon State: $6228 for 12 credit load 3 quarters per year; with student fees $7600

University of Oregon $6000 for 12 credit load, 3 quarters per year; with student fees $7300

Portland State: $5000 for 12 credit load, 3 quarters per  year; with student fees $6500

 

Each credit you take beyond this cost about $140-$150 a credit. 12 credits is the bare minimum to be full time, and it's hard to graduate on time if you only take 12 credits a term.

 

The other smaller Oregon schools are slightly cheaper, but only by about $200-$500 a  year.  Out of state students pay 3x as much. (Except for Eastern Oregon University. It's is a steal for out of state students as it has the same cost for out of state and in state tuition).


 

 


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Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post

 

My kids will probably end up using student loans for a large part of college. My husband and I have talked about paying their student loans for a set number of years after they graduate, gradually decreasing the amount we pay and increasing the amount they pay as they move into more stable and better paying jobs after graduation.

 

 


 

beautiful! thats a great idea!


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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Eh, cause I found a way to pay for college that didn't touch my parents bank account... not that they even had the money.  And I don't have my degree... but um... I'm doing quite well right now.  Though I finally turned in all my paperwork and will be starting AMU in the summer.  YAY ME!  Oh and to clear that up, I'll be using my post 9/11 GI bill.

 

This will really make a big difference in whether and how your children go to college. If you model going back to school, they will become more aware of what it takes to get the degree. 

 

The fact that you figured out how to pay for it without having money saved for your education will also make a difference for them. 

 

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#142 of 208 Old 02-25-2012, 07:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

 

It's not all that bad. And it's a really good idea for kids whose parents didn't go to college. 4th grade might be a little young for that degree of planning, but realistically, kids need that information before they get to high school. If you don't  understand that you need 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 years of science and 2-4  years of a foreign language to get into college, it's going to be hard if you want to go.

 

Maybe your school system is different from ours. I can't see any reason to know this stuff before high school. The requirements for university entrance at most schools aren't all that much more stringent than grad requirements. Unless a student isn't even on track to graduate, he/she is going to be taking all the classes he/she needs for university entrance until at least 10th grade. At that point, if they want to go to university, they're going to have to do more science courses, and a bit more French (or whatever - usually French), but a lot of the requirements don't change. Yeah - you need Math 12 to get into university...but you need Math 11 to graduate, anyway. Same with some of the other classes...and English 12 is required for grad, so it's not even relevant to the university entrance thing.

 

Our son did something similar (though not as in depth) this year. He had to list 3-4 possible careers, choose one and tell what kind of education he'd need to get to do that career. Given the demographics of that school (a lot of children whose parents are immigrants to the US), I was thrilled to see them do this exercise. It's helping to teach children the cultural capital that's the subject of a big TAO thread right now.

 

They do something similar to this as part of the "graduation portfolio" in my province. Once again, I have to wonder what the net benefit is. My son spent a bunch of time investigating options that he wasn't really interested in, because he had to provide at least...think it was three different different fields that he might like to work in. He picked things he liked as a hobby (eg. comic book artist - he's good enough, but it's not what he wants), and researched those fields. But, he was always going to act. It's just what he wanted to do. It didn't really hurt him to do the exercises, but it was a fat waste of his time. The only effect it had on him was to make him more frustrated with a school system that he'd actually quite enjoyed until his last year or two I find exercises like this to be almost pointless.

 

 


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Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post


Quote:

 

This will really make a big difference in whether and how your children go to college. If you model going back to school, they will become more aware of what it takes to get the degree. 

 

The fact that you figured out how to pay for it without having money saved for your education will also make a difference for them. 

 

 

You know...I hadn't actually realized it until this post, but you have a point. In my case, it went the other way, though. Watching my mom struggle through her degree made post-secondary seem really, really unappealing. I already thought the idea of more school was about as attractive as an elective root canal. By the time I watched my mom finish hers, it seemed about as attractive as a root canal on every single tooth in my mouth.

 

I do have to say that, as belligerent as I get about it, I have a lot of admiration for people who get their degrees. I don't have anywhere near what it takes to do it.
 

 


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      Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

I agree that private tuition is insane. You know what they're doing? They're charging full price to the 2% of the population who can afford it (though those people probably make up a much larger chunk of the student body than 2%), and using that money to fund scholarships for students who can't. It's an ironic form of socialism, really.


This thread had me reading some articles about the rising cost of college in the US, and scholarships were one of the reasons listed.  It turns out it's sort of this cyclical thing where as prices rise, so do the amount of people who need scholarships, and the more scholarships that are given, the more the price goes up for everyone else which means more people will need scholarships, and so on. Plus there's been an increase in merit based scholarships to attract the best and brightest so to speak.  Demand also plays a part in the increase as well as increased spending on student services and faculty. I'm sure there are other things too.  

 

Whatever the reasons though, I really wonder if college is even going to be a possibility for my kids.  At this rate, by the time they're ready to start school in 2024 and 2027, tuition at a state university is going to be absolutely outrageous. I found an online calculator that let's you put in the year and the school, and I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry at the results of how much it would take just to cover tuition at the same state university I went to. I had done my own crude projections based on how things have been going and was hoping the calculator would prove me wrong, but no such luck.  

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I agree Miriam.  I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college.  I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years.  And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay.  There are ways to get to college without doing it. 
 

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Quote:



Again, I have not read the whole thread, but a tactic that many banks and Sallie Mae are doing is to MAKE the parents co-sign for their children's student loans.  DO NOT DO THIS!  It is a trap that few get out from under. 

 

And remember, many colleges and universities have endowments that would allow them to give full classes free tuition for years - Harvard and Stanford are just a couple. 

 

Maybe it is time to look into internships or apprenticeships instead of longer, not higher, education.  We need persons who can think on the basis of common sense.



 

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      Quote:

Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college. 

 

I'm not sure I'll have any choice in the matter if my kid's plans include getting a four-year degree or more. The conservative estimate I came up with (based on 7% inflation...it's been going up 6.5% per year which was the cap which they worked their way around this year to go to 10%) to send my children to the state university I went to (which by all accounts is a pretty good value) was about $70,000 for my daughter and $85,000 for my son just for tuition and fees for four years. Now I could offset that by having them go to a community college for the first two years, but community college is rising as well. Either way they do it, it's going to cost a fortune. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't even started thinking about all this.  

 

 

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#148 of 208 Old 02-26-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far

 

i still have most of that, however, Ill probably keep going in school...so more debt!

 

My parents did not save, the deal is, if your going to school, they'll support you ie) food, a place to live

 

Im not sure how you can afford tuition without a loan, unless it's been saved 


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#149 of 208 Old 02-26-2012, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Scholarships, grants, dead uncles, the military.  Just some ideas.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far

 

i still have most of that, however, Ill probably keep going in school...so more debt!

 

My parents did not save, the deal is, if your going to school, they'll support you ie) food, a place to live

 

Im not sure how you can afford tuition without a loan, unless it's been saved 



 

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#150 of 208 Old 02-26-2012, 08:56 AM
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I think saying "no loans" is a very black and white way of looking at the issue. If you take out a total of, say, $10K in loans, you'll be paying about $100 a month for ten years in repayment (or you can pay it off faster and pay less). A hundred bucks a month is doable for most people, and if it allows you to do something cool like spend a year in another country or not work for a year and focus intensely on your studies, maybe it's worth it.

I have friends who have over 100K in loans, though, and that scares me.

 
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