"Teaching" kids that life does not revolve around them - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 45 Old 10-18-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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meemee- I think what you've chosen to do is fine. But, I would say that since you are looking at this as a way to get her to be more organized about her thoughts , it is to benefit her schooling and I wouldnt let it go. She might not want to do debate, but what is she going to do to get better at writing and talking to people? 


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#32 of 45 Old 10-18-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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meemee- I think what you've chosen to do is fine. But, I would say that since you are looking at this as a way to get her to be more organized about her thoughts , it is to benefit her schooling and I wouldnt let it go. She might not want to do debate, but what is she going to do to get better at writing and talking to people? 

two things holly.

 

1. she has executive function issues. not bad. but still there. it will help her there.

 

2. she underestimates her skills. i want her to realise that she has talent that others recognize. she doesnt have to do anything with it - or even debate, but i want it to come from someone else that if she chose this line she could be good enough to compete.

 

3. she is a social person and a thinker who voices her opinions. i think this for her would be a good life skill to have. so she doesnt get into an intense argument. she is very emotional. hopefully she will be able to see when not to rise to the bait. dunno if this training will help with that or not... but she has a great teacher who is very kind around children.


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#33 of 45 Old 10-18-2012, 08:27 PM
 
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Right, I see what you're saying, and I think it sounds like a good idea that for her to be in the class. Im asking, if she is going to quit taking the class, how do you plan on making sure that she gets these skills? 

 

 

Or, I guess Im asking the people who think that meemee shouldnt make her take the class: how is her DD supposed to learn how to organize her thoughts and speak in a way that get best gets her point across? 


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#34 of 45 Old 10-18-2012, 10:29 PM
 
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My reply is going to contain 2 apparently contradictory ideas. But they can both live in my head, so I guess they can both live in one post.orngbiggrin.gif

 

1. My father took me, under duress, to opera, orchestra, jazz, and rock (no duress!) concerts. Today, I love Baroque, hate opera, and have educated opinions on all sorts of music. He took me to museums, and I formed my own appreciation of certain art forms, and not others. In direct opposition to most of my radical unschooling attitudes, I think some exposure can be forced. Then the child has the right to enjoy or not enjoy something. And to repeat an experience, or follow up with more in-depth exposure. Or not. My son loves science or natural history museums, my daughter prefers art museums, but both based their choices on exposure.
 

2. This is a separate question from continuing to force attendance in an activity a child wants to discontinue. How would a person who had never experienced a karate class (just as an example) be expected to know if that is something they want to do, without actually trying it? If I were forced to obligate myself to a large commitment in order to try an activity, it might keep me from experimenting. I recently took a training to tutor English as a Second Language to immigrant adults. I start tutoring next week. I am really excited about volunteering in this field. I hope I enjoy it. But if it turns out this is not a way I want to spend my time, I am not going to keep doing it, just because I said I wanted to try. A child has even less experience than I do, and I don't see why he or she should be held to a commitment about a subject they have no experience to judge it by.


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#35 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 01:35 AM
 
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. so she chose debate. i warned her debate initially would be boring. so she'd have to stay in it to give it a fair shot.

 

eyesroll.gif i told you so. eyesroll.gif

 

they are now actively debating in class. no more informational stuff about rules and types of debate.

 

and she is LOVING it.

 

 

What an awesome update!!!!!  This is exactly why we have the policy of agreeing to complete the session.

 

I don't think it hurts kids to finish what they start -- far from it.

 

I'm not a hard a$$ about it -- last summer one of my DD's tried a camp and got there and hated it -- the program was not what they had described at all and she was concerned about the amount of physical labor in temperatures topping 100. She called me and I picked her up that day. 

 

But a little whining during the boring start up period of a new activity? Push through! Push through!


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#36 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 07:17 AM
 
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 how is her DD supposed to learn how to organize her thoughts and speak in a way that get best gets her point across? 

IMO- as all the others that are not in the class learn to- usually it is done in the school class room (as in the case with a a child in school-like this child) with assignments (reports/oral presentations, etc) that are grade and age appropriate......one does not need to take a class in order to do, if you used that argument you miss a lot of children that way- this is an elective class

 

 

 

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A child has even less experience than I do, and I don't see why he or she should be held to a commitment about a subject they have no experience to judge it by.
 
children simply are not adults

 

it should be remembered that it is important to learn to finish what you start but the bigger picture is the age, 10 in not a teen nor should they be held to the same standards

 

a 10 year old does not have the same mental capacity as a 13 or even 15 year old..........it is also important to learn to make decisions and 10 is a great age to start........and learning that quitting is not an end all either, most don't learn that it is in fact OK to quit

 

having good decisions making skills along with respect are what make good teens 


 

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#37 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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IMO- as all the others that are not in the class learn to- usually it is done in the school class room (as in the case with a a child in school-like this child) with assignments (reports/oral presentations, etc) that are grade and age appropriate......one does not need to take a class in order to do, if you used that argument you miss a lot of children that way- this is an elective class

yes it is done in the classroom, but many children like mine need additional help. while i help her at home (and yes you dont have to take a class to learn) its far better to learn it through another fun activity where its unconciously done - than to do it with mom.

 

yes of course a 10 year old is not like a 13 or 15 year old - but because of her maturity is nothing like a 9 year old but mostly a 11 year old. which is the reason why this is a good time to start. not while she is in the throes of high emotions where she cant help her behaviour. 

 

which is why its better to work on her executive function skills instead of when it seriously impacts her middle school or high school classes. 

 

the knowing when to quit is important. knowing oneself IS important. dd has learnt being bored is not a reason to quit. having your soul sucked out IS a good reason to quit. there is a difference and she needs to learn both. 


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#38 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 08:25 AM
 
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My daughter grew up in my daycare, and I was a single mom, so she always knew she was the center of my world only.

 

But, I forced swimming lessons on her.  There's no choice in that...we live in a hot climate and most people have pools.  So, she was going to learn swimming and water safety.  If I lived in a big hunting community, i'd probably make her go to gun safety classes too.

 

I also chose piano lessons for her.  She went for one full year.  But, she never seemed to love it, so we quit.  

 

If she had a commitment, like a dance class, she had to stick it out for the whole year, because once you are part of a team, you need to be there for the team.  Plus, she loved all the other classes in dance, just not ballet.  (She needed all the basics)  I did let her drop Hip Hop right away, because she hated it, wasn't good at it, and it was early enough in the year that she wasn't part of a big dance.

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#39 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 08:28 AM
 
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IMO- as all the others that are not in the class learn to- usually it is done in the school class room (as in the case with a a child in school-like this child) with assignments (reports/oral presentations, etc) that are grade and age appropriate......one does not need to take a class in order to do, if you used that argument you miss a lot of children that way- this is an elective class

 

 

Not all kids learn the same way, and it seems like meemee is saying her dd is not picking up these skills in the same way as her peers. 


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#40 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 11:10 AM
 
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 it seems like meemee is saying her dd is not picking up these skills in the same way as her peers. 

that was not what the OP originally posted

 

if you read I was replying to what you asked not the OP-my comment does not need to be twisted - clearly there are other ways besides this class

 

 

 

 

certainly taking a debate class will not solve it for all, most tend to dislike that type of confrontation(as others have also pointed out), thus the reason the teacher said others have already dropped out, to many it adds stress and defeats the whole purpose of learning such skills 


 

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#41 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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certainly taking a debate class will not solve it for all, most tend to dislike that type of confrontation(as others have also pointed out), thus the reason the teacher said others have already dropped out, to many it adds stress and defeats the whole purpose of learning such skills 

serenbat you certainly make a lot of assumptions dont you? they dropped out because they felt it was BORING. not adding stress. though of course you could call boring = stress. though a couple of them are now thinking of joining back when they heard what the group has been doing this week. unfortunately new ones joined and i dont think there is place for them any more. 


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#42 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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certainly taking a debate class will not solve it for all, most tend to dislike that type of confrontation(as others have also pointed out), thus the reason the teacher said others have already dropped out, to many it adds stress and defeats the whole purpose of learning such skills 

 

I really disagree with this statement. One of kiddos is in an elective right now called Petty Arguments which is a combination debate and persuasive writing class at her class. The kids LOVE it. They like to argue, and they want to be better at.

 

Some kids don't like confrontation, but a lot of adolescents thrive on it.

 

I suspect kids dropped because it they discovered it required effort.


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#43 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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meemee, you certainly have all the answers

 

first a respectable teacher would never discuss with another parent the reason(s) others have left the class, you and not entitled to know and if this happened I would have reported the teacher and not took what they said for low value- it is none of the other parents business and you can only hope that teacher is not talking about your child as well - most would refer in generalizations and I highly dobut you know the full reasons

 

secondly most children (even at age 10) use the word boring and would not communicate/articulate that they were under stress- I'm sorry you are unaware of that


 

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#44 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 12:36 PM
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Are they also required to do something in the arts?

I'm curious what sport your daughter chose. Does she actually play, or is she stuck riding the bench?

Hi mtiger, 

 

My daughter chose running.  She runs cross country, winter track and spring track.  She never sits out a meet and has participated in every meet and practice (daily) scheduled.  She has also run a couple 5K's with her dear ole' mom.   As a matter of fact, cross country season begins in June; about one week after school gets out.  My three kids get up every morning at 8 am all summer.  Every day.  All summer.  Since they were in the 6th grade.  None of them complain.  Who was the poster that commented about having the expectation that your child will do what you ask? Maybe it was another thread.  But I agree with that idea wholeheartedly.   

 

My kids are not required to participate in the arts during the school day.  The high school curriculum where they attend offers many (MANY) art and theater classes.  Also, I'm sure you are aware of the statistics involving youth and sports.   I realize they are a generalization - but it is a generalization that I am willing to bet on.  So far, I'm doing pretty good!  

 

She has participated in the arts since she became a high schooler.  She enjoys piano quite a bit.  She stopped playing with a teacher because running interfered and she was unwilling to attend practice on Saturday mornings.  She plays a lot on her own at home and likes to teach herself new pieces.  She is also a writer and LOVES to create, develop and write stories.   She is very well rounded, well read and generally the best 17 year old girl I have ever met.

 

 I appreciate your interest.


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#45 of 45 Old 10-19-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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first a respectable teacher would never discuss with another parent the reason(s) others have left the class, you and not entitled to know and if this happened I would have reported the teacher and not took what they said for low value- it is none of the other parents business and you can only hope that teacher is not talking about your child as well - most would refer in generalizations and I highly dobut you know the full reasons

there you go assuming again. it wasnt the teacher who told me. it was the students themselves. i know what the students have told me and nothing more. 

 

secondly most children (even at age 10) use the word boring and would not communicate/articulate that they were under stress- I'm sorry you are unaware of that

yes you are right the term 'boring' could mean so many things in 10 year language. but its interesting that you immediately think stress instead of just lack of interest. i wonder if instead of a debate class if it was an art class would you still call it stress. 


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