Is being AP a whole pick and choose whatever you want and do away with the rest? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 02:51 PM
 
lunachele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lunachele is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#122 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 03:40 PM
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,939
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A few things, I don't have much time.

If the intent of spanking isn't to hurt, then what is the point? If a parent has enough control to deliver a carefully placed, not-to-hard hit, then it seems to reason they have enough control to just not hit.

Reading these responses only strengthens my view that spanking needs to be seen as abuse. I think that most people do realize that it is not the best thing to do, but don't really think it is "that bad", either. The stories told are those of frustrated, angry parents. Those are not the moments that we are most in control, and those are the last times we want to be hitting our kids. Plenty of people have described hitting their kids as a "tool", that doesn't indicate to me that everyone here understands that hitting a kid, for whatever reason, is just plain wrong.

Comparing abuse is silly and insulting. A lot of people think that date rape isn't really rape and it is insulting to those who have been raped by a stranger to call it rape. Same thing with spousal rape. Hitting a child is abuse. I'm not comparing it to rape, mind you, but it abuse all the same.

I think that very little in parenting is black and white, but this is one of the things that I just can't see another way. I understand why parents resort to spanking. I don't think everyone who does is a horrible person or a bad parent. But hitting is just wrong. It just is.
Mothra is offline  
#123 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 03:47 PM
 
Sofiamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Putting boobs in babies' mouths!
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, you're right, demanding rarely gets me very far. I try not to do that. In that situation I was trying to streamline my request, but she may have heard it as a demand. I guess what I am balking at is this idea that she needs an explanation *every* single time, or even the lion's share of the time. That is what I am resentful of.

An Indigo is a term for the children that are coming into the world right now. Indigo refers to the color of their aura. Even if you are not into New Age stuff, the theory still resonates if you know about children. Teachers and psychologists for instance have noticed that children are different now. The sense of entitlement, expecting respect, the impatience with old systems that don't work, etc. There is a book "Indigo Children: The New Kids Have Arrived" and there is also a website. They started being born about 20-30 years ago, in small numbers, and their numbers increased until recently. The children being born now I have heard referred to as "Crystal" or "Light" children. I feel my younger dd is one of these. It is fascinating and if you or one of your children is one you will find yourself nodding along with the descriptions.

P.S. Congratulations on not spanking or yelling!

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

Sofiamomma is offline  
#124 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 03:50 PM
 
Sofiamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Putting boobs in babies' mouths!
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's just it, Mothra, it may be wrong, but abuse is just too strong a word.

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

Sofiamomma is offline  
#125 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 04:01 PM
 
lunachele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lunachele is offline  
#126 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 04:09 PM
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,939
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sofiamomma-- I understand the reaction that people have to the word abuse. However, I think that many people will continue to think that it is okay, or at least "not that bad" until they realize that it IS abuse. I understand that you don't think that it is, and I think I understand why, but I'm not going to change my mind about this.



Lunachele-- I think my posts speak for themselves. I have been logical and respectful. If you think otherwise, just put me on ignore. I think you are being insulting by comparing your abuse to someone else's. I don't need something to be in a penal code to know what it is. I'm not going to change my vocabulary, which I consider carefully, because someone else disagrees.
Mothra is offline  
#127 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 04:25 PM
 
LavenderMae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I write my own posts!
Posts: 12,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofiamomma
I *do* resent my older daughter. It's not rocket science! However, I do love her and want to be the best mom I can to her. That is why I ask for help and support. She and I are completely different from one another. I have a *very* hard time with her. Do you think I *like* having these feelings? I have been really upset by them. In fact, after my little one came along I even posted a thread about the dark side of mothering because it is so hard to deal with stuff like this.

Also, we have wonderful times together and times when I do do things right, but that is not what this conversation is about, although I did post an example of what a great kid she was at her swimming lesson last week.
Man, isn't this hard to admit. I feel your pain, I really do. I don't know how many times I have just sat down and bawled my eyes out because I hate feeling this way about my beloved child. I didn't know that a mother could feel that way about their own child. The guilt and heartache over it is awful.
Just because I do feel this way about my dd it does not mean I don't love her with all that I am. Kara, thank you for having the courage to admit this!

I am pretty much done debating the abuse thing, I now what abuse is and I do not feel spanking is it. I do however think spanking is wrong and not benificial or effective in the long run. I know you can feel spanking is wrong and shouldn't be done w/o labeling it as abuse.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
LavenderMae is offline  
#128 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 04:37 PM
 
lunachele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lunachele is offline  
#129 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 05:47 PM
 
lunachele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lunachele is offline  
#130 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 06:26 PM
 
pugmadmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Having worked in the field of Domestic Violence, I am very familiar with these arguements. I had many clients who thought they'd not been abused because they had not been punched. They didn't realize that absue can consist of being kicked, slapped with an open palm, etc. Abuse may leave a mark or it may not. Just being threated with an object that can be used as a weapon is also abuse, even if the object is not used against the victim. And so on.

I think the fact that we are still debating over how hard and with what kind of hand position it is okay to hit a child with says a lot about how we view children in this country.
pugmadmama is offline  
#131 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 06:31 PM
 
Alegria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"slaping your child to avoid immediate danger"??? That's nonsense.

How bout scooping the child up? "Oh honey, that's hot. Don't touch. You scared me!"

Or shouting, "Careful, Hot!"

Our whole job as a parent is to PROTECT them. If my beloved child were in danger I wouldn't waiste my time hitting her
Alegria is offline  
#132 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 06:45 PM
 
lunachele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm removing all my posts. I have revealed personal information that I regret revealing, because I have been attacked with it. If there's a moderator here who can completely remove my posts, please do.

If you have quoted me and have an ounce of compassion, please delete the quote and any mention of me.

I do not feel safe or welcome here. I have no wish to offend anyone. I don't need the pain that events on this board have caused me. My heart hurts.

Please leave me alone.

I do not know how to unsub from here, but I will not be back.

Words can hurt worse than fists.

Goodbye.
lunachele is offline  
#133 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
Parker'smommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Hi! OP here

I havent been as involved with this thread as I would like because I guess it isnt going in the exact direction I thought it would. But hey, I should be used to that, when has anything gone 'my way' when parenting a 26 month old VERY spirited boy!!!

Anyways, I have been following the thread and agree with lots of the posters that feel that any hitting, whether its a soft pat on the bum, or something leaving a mark is wrong, and abusive. It isnt the mark that the child will remember, or even the pain but the feeling they felt that their parent betrayed them. I know that my ds got yelled at by a family member ( and yes, I had a very nice talk with that family member ) and especially since he has never been yelled at in that way before he just crumbled into tears. He was so upset that someone would talk to him in such a angry way. It was awful.

Also, getting to the OT, I think there is a big difference in saying, "OH my goodness, I lost it and spanked my ds and I feel so bad and I apologized adn I dont want to do it again" and someone saying, "Spanking is okay, and I gladly do it and will do it again". The first is someone I would say is still trying to attachment parent, hey we all mess up and the important thing is where are intentions lie. And if we are doing something active to try and change our behavior. The later is someone I wouldnt consider attatchment parenting because they are actively detatching themselves from their child. My opinion of course.

ANd I used to think that it was okay to spank in situations like the stove or street, but after reading Dr. Sears - Discipline Book I realized that it just wasnt an effective tool to curb that behavior and most importantly not neccessary. He explains a techinique of saving a special scared loud voice for those types of situations. Since your child is not used to you yelling and using this voice they stop what they are doing just to see what is going on. He explains it much better in his book . But I have used this technique with ds and the street before and it worked like a charm. I screamed, NO! NO! STOP! STOP! STREET!!!" and he did and I grabbed him and took him away from the curb and then talked with him that he wasnt allowed in the street alone and needed to hold hands with me.

Heather , momma to ' Parker- 10, Carlee- 7 and our baby Genevieve Faith - 8-27-10

Parker'smommy is offline  
#134 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 07:44 PM
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,939
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sheacoby-- I hope that you don't hold any hard feelings over this disagreement over what we call spanking, because I don't.
Mothra is offline  
#135 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 09:29 PM
 
LavenderMae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I write my own posts!
Posts: 12,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mothra, I don't hold any hard feelings. I can understand why you feel the way you do. It does make me feel very judged though even if it is not your intent. I have broke down every time I have come to this thread. It has brought up a lot of pain and guilt for me.
I do wish people could understand we are not all starting at the same vantage point. Some of us have far to go in this area but maybe we have it more together in another area. I can get very down on myself for my failures and believe me it doesn't make things better. Eventhough my best isn't seen as good enough for some I still know I am doing the best I can. And I hope my best keeps getting better, that is what I'm working on.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
LavenderMae is offline  
#136 of 137 Old 04-29-2004, 10:52 PM
 
Sofiamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Putting boobs in babies' mouths!
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Parker'smommy, I was just thinking about you! I was thinking it was too bad this thread got a little off your original question. I'm considering starting a new thread, but there are important undercurrents here. As I said in my first reply to you, there are people who are striving for an ideal, and as Sheacoby has just so eloquently pointed out we are all starting from different vantage points and we all have different areas where we shine. I think it is also important to remember AP is not one size fits all, and that, yes, it is pick and choose, so that way it fits your family and your goals.

Sheacoby, and

P.S. I wish we could all be a little more gentle and respectful of each other, not just the children!

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

Sofiamomma is offline  
#137 of 137 Old 04-30-2004, 04:35 PM
 
Piglet68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 10,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
I have broke down every time I have come to this thread. It has brought up a lot of pain and guilt for me.
I do wish people could understand we are not all starting at the same vantage point.


You are so right. We aren't all starting from the same place. I actually credit my pre-marital counselling with helping me be a better parent, by teaching me how to promote the inner-growth process and manage my reactions better. I am not the parent I would have been 10 years ago, and I'm sure I'll be even better 10 years from now!

teapot2.GIF Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)  ribbonjigsaw.gif blogging.jpg homeschool.gif

Piglet68 is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off