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#1 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Had to delete.

drowning in hormones with 4 daughters and an understanding, loving hubby. also some dogs. my life is crazy and we are always learning.

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#2 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 07:14 AM
 
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We don't allow co-ed sleepovers with our teens, period. End of discussion. Whether or not these two like each other in that way is beside the point for me.
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#3 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 07:17 AM
 
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A rule is a rule!  You made the rule without loopholes, and you can't start finding loopholes now for the oldest one.  (i'm only assuming she's the oldest) or you will be having to give in to the loopholes for all the girls.  

 

It's not closed minded, it's the rule you made, and just because she wants to have a teenage hissy fit, doesn't mean you don't respect her.  

 

Honestly, depending on how my kid said closed minded.  (it can be said in a respectful "this is how I feel" way, or a rude bullying way) I might ban her from having any sleepovers at all.

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#4 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 04:23 PM
 
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I think that calling you closeminded when you didn't do what she wanted is very normal teenager behavior. Rude, but normal. Don't let her make you feel like you have to give in here because of what she thinks of your decision. 

 

 

Quote:
Honestly, depending on how my kid said closed minded.  (it can be said in a respectful "this is how I feel" way, or a rude bullying way) I might ban her from having any sleepovers at all.

 

This was the first thing that came to mind for me.


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#5 of 18 Old 05-15-2013, 03:44 AM
 
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I think your daughter needs to learn more about what trans* means. Sexual identity does not equal who a person is sexually attracted to. 

 

That said, though... My kids both had co-ed sleepovers, and there was never a problem. Diff'rent strokes.

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#6 of 18 Old 05-15-2013, 05:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by purplerose View Post

 

To hold off on the whole issue, I have asked that she have him(her?) over a few times and let us get to know this person before we decide something like that.

 

I was totally shocked that she called me closeminded; my mouth just gaped open like an idiot LOL

 

 

You're closed minded because you want to get to know someone before they sleep in your house?  ROTFLMAO.gif

 

I think that gets filed under "Kids say the darnedest things."

 

In your DD's case, with her being so unsure about her own sexuality and you being very clear about no hanky panky at sleep overs, I wonder if just drawing a line in the sand and saying "no more sleep overs" would end the issue.

 

On the other hand, I thought we would be a strict "no sleepovers with boys" family (I have 2 daughters) and yet we let our highschool DD sleep over at a good friend's house after a midnight movie. It was a boy's house, and all the other guest were boys. She slept in the guest room while all the guys slept in the family room. All her friends are boys. She fits in with the boys. We know them and like them and trust them, and have open conversation with their parents. The hosting mom told me that early the next morning, the kids sat out on the deck and watched the sun rise and ate pancakes, and that she was really glad that I let my DD come and have that bonding time with her friends because they were just all so -- connected in a positive way.

 

But we know those kids and their parents.


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#7 of 18 Old 05-15-2013, 08:34 PM
 
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I think your daughter needs to learn more about what trans* means. Sexual identity does not equal who a person is sexually attracted to. 

 

That said, though... My kids both had co-ed sleepovers, and there was never a problem. Diff'rent strokes.


I am thinking that the DD does know what the meaning of transgender is and that the OP and some of the people here do not know the meaning.

 

This person was born into a male body but feels like a female. In her mind, and the people who understand and respect "transgenderedness", she is a female.

So in the DD's mind, her mother is being closed minded because she is not accepting of and understanding the face that some people feel and believe that who they are do not match the body they were born into. And the fact that the OP is calling the friend "he" is proving that fact.

 

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it.

If anything, if the reason you are not having co-ed sleepovers is to prevent some "hanky panky" under your roof...it really doesn't make sense to allow your lesbian or bi-sexual DD to have females sleep over at all.

 

I slept over at friends homes and had them sleep at my house all the time growing up. We were allowed co-ed sleep overs.

After puberty hit, opposite sexed kids slept in different rooms.

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#8 of 18 Old 05-16-2013, 03:17 AM
 
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I am thinking that the DD does know what the meaning of transgender is and that the OP and some of the people here do not know the meaning.

 

 

As I wrote - sexual identity is not the same as which gender one is sexually attracted to. Daughter's friend may be DMAB and attracted to guys. Or they may be attracted to girls. And daughter may be pulling the wool over Mom's eyes. 

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#9 of 18 Old 05-16-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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In any case, at least there is no fear of pregnancy. Isnt that the main fear discouraging adolesescent sex?   

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#10 of 18 Old 05-16-2013, 08:09 AM
 
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In any case, at least there is no fear of pregnancy. Isnt that the main fear discouraging adolesescent sex?   

How is there no fear of pregnancy?  I missed that part.

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#11 of 18 Old 05-16-2013, 08:27 AM
 
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In any case, at least there is no fear of pregnancy. Isnt that the main fear discouraging adolesescent sex?   
Unless at 16 they got a sex change....pregnancy is still very much a fear!

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#12 of 18 Old 05-17-2013, 10:30 AM
 
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oops-i saw  the word 'lesbian', but the friend is transgender, biologically male-sorry

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#13 of 18 Old 05-17-2013, 12:53 PM
 
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For consistency for you and your children, I think you need to clarify why you are making this rule.

 

If it is a "no hanky panky" rule, then I think the line would need to be that your eldest doesn't get to have sleep overs, which to me suggests that the rule is not fair.

 

If it is fear of pregnancy, I think you need to be clear about that.

 

To be honest, I think the message that "if there are boys there, you can't possibly just be friends and will, of course, have sex," is not an ideal lesson.  How about no sleep overs with possible romantic interests? 

 

Regarding the transgendered child, she clearly perceives herself as a girl and I think your daughter is actually the one who understands what transgendered means.  If the child feels like she is a girl, then I believe she should be treated as such.  To insist she "counts as a boy" is actually kind of mean, the kind of prejudice she will encounter in her daily life. 

 

That said, you getting to know someone who might sleep in your house seems VERY reasonable!  Ha. 

 

Just fyi, I was allowed to attend coed sleep overs as a teen and it felt nice to know my parents trusted me.  Most of the time, the boys were just friends, and the rare time I was with my boyfriend, it turns out my parents also taught me to be safe (when I did eventually have sex) and I was able to set appropriate boundaries that I was comfortable with.  That I had the chance to experiment and know I was safe meant that, when I left for college, I already knew how to negotiate safe sex unlike many of my peers.  Just my two cents.

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#14 of 18 Old 05-17-2013, 01:45 PM
 
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I agree that there seem to be a lot of issues tangled up here. But first, let me say, that as a former 16 yr old bi girl living at home, I would have killed to be able to be half as honest with my mom as your daughter has been with you!! Good for you!

 

But there is always some nuance or challenge when we are trying to keep up with such a new era of sexuality-acceptance and identity.

 

In terms of untangling all the things going on here, I see the following threads:

 

1. How do your childrens' gender and sexuality affect the rules in your household? 

 

For example, if you had even one son, then would he be allowed to have boys over in spite of having younger sisters? Would the younger girls be allowed to have girls over despite having an older brother? 

 

If the problem is that you don't want anyone any kid is potentially attracted to sleep over, then you might as well ban all overnight guests. 

 

But that is pretty radical, and so it brings me to the next question...

 

2. Why does the sleep overs rule exist?

 

If it is to prevent sexual exploration, I hate to say that is a futile endeavor. I was a pretty good kid overall, but my friends and I were very sexually liberated and curious, and everyone found a way to "hook up" regardless of their parent's rules about sleep-overs and dating. I think it might make more sense to pinpoint what it is about teen sexuality that you have concerns over, and to talk to your daughter about that.

 

By the time I we were 17-18, a lot of my friend's parents allowed all friends and even bf's and gf's to spend the night IF they were well known to the family. I think it's more reasonable to lift the gender-based ban and to focus on who your house guests are as people. 

 

Then,

 

3. Can social rules be determined by your kids age? 

 

If you decide banning sleep overs for your teen is the only "safe" answer, then is that fair? I know that as a teen, sleepovers just didn't have the same critical place in the social world as they did when we were kids. Also, as kids, sleepovers didn't pose as much of an opportunity for trouble-making as they did later in life. 

 

Maybe you can consider that just as your teen earns more autonomy and freedom, she should also lose some privileges reserved for the kiddos, and as your other girls get older, they too will lose sleep-over privileges. I'm not convinced this is a good option, but it's out there. 

 

Finally, 

 

4. What options are the most likely to open up the trust you have in your daughter without violating your sense of morality and values? 

 

It seems like the best solution would be one in which you can require that you know her friends before the spend the night, communicate about building friendships and relationships and exploring sexuality, and trust that she is making wise choices and know she will make mistakes, but that you may minimize those mistakes by respecting her autonomy.

 

I know I would have been a lot less reckless if I felt I could have talked to my parents in my teens!! Instead, it was more like "all or nothing": if I have to lie and pretend I;m something I'm not, I may as well take more and more risks to make it all worth it! 

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#15 of 18 Old 05-18-2013, 10:04 AM
 
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Regarding the transgendered child, she clearly perceives herself as a girl and I think your daughter is actually the one who understands what transgendered means.  If the child feels like she is a girl, then I believe she should be treated as such.  To insist she "counts as a boy" is actually kind of mean, the kind of prejudice she will encounter in her daily life. 

 

My Oldest is trans* - DMAB (i.e. Determined Male At Birth). They identify female. But likes girls. Has male genitalia and has sex the way a guy would. Sexual identity does NOT define sexual attraction. Pregnancy IS a possibility. SO again - no one seems to understand what trans* means. Not kiddo, not Mom. Not a lot of people.

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#16 of 18 Old 05-18-2013, 10:19 AM
 
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Not a parent of a teen, but as a former teen, I feel that cynthiamoon is foot on with her assertions, opinions, and advice. I was that kid with strict rules/curfew/restrictions, and I went the bad girl route BIG time. The only way I could learn what I wanted to know was to try it out, especially since the restrictions led me to feel my curiosities were not up for real discussion. Clearly you are an open-minded mama who does her best to keep those communications open and respects the opinions of her children. Good for you. smile.gif
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#17 of 18 Old 05-18-2013, 04:55 PM
 
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mtiger, I wasn't talking at all to her sexual orientation, just how she is treated.  I was simply saying that if the transgendered individual presents as a girl, that is how people should treat her.  Her DD is not straight anyway, so I wasn't at all talking about the potential for sex at all.  If her DD is bi, then it might not even matter what gender the potential partner is. 

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#18 of 18 Old 05-18-2013, 05:41 PM
 
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My Oldest is trans* - DMAB (i.e. Determined Male At Birth). They identify female. But likes girls. Has male genitalia and has sex the way a guy would. Sexual identity does NOT define sexual attraction. Pregnancy IS a possibility. SO again - no one seems to understand what trans* means. Not kiddo, not Mom. Not a lot of people.


Your oldest is trans - DMAB. So in your oldest eyes she is female and a lesbian (whether or not she uses her penis for sex and can have sex to create a child).

The OP is not saying she doesn't allow lesbians to sleep over. She is saying she doesn't allow males to sleep over.

And by not allowing this friend to sleep over she is determining that the friend is male based on genitalia and not how the friend and DD view the friend (as female). So the DD does seem to know what trans means...that the friend is a woman. And so the DD feels that the OP is closed minded because the OP cannot (at this point) accept and respect that the friend is not determined by the genitalia that they were born with.

 

It is like saying your oldest cannot stay over because your oldest is really a guy...not because your oldest is a lesbian.

 

If the DD is wanting to have sex with this friend, or any other, she can and will do so whether or not they sleep over at each others homes. So I doubt that it is a big story to pull the wool over the mothers eyes.


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