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#61 of 82 Old 05-26-2013, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#62 of 82 Old 05-26-2013, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#63 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ronart View Post

 

Yes, I have been controlling.  Initially I didn't want people to post advise as it was impossible for anyone on here to provide anything of use given they do not know the constructs of the relationship I have with my partner.  I was asking for people to post their experiences.  I was frustrated and therefore as you see it "argumentative" when people failed to understand the intent of my post by posting specific suggestions.  I am not sure where you think I am resistant to ideas, as even those who still posted specific items that did not apply, I still have attempted to implement them to my circumstance.  

 

I have a strong personality.  In my professional life I am passionate and if need be argumentative.  I know people I work with who do exactly as you say so they can avoid investing the time and energy needed to advocate for themselves.  Who I am at work versus as home is not the same person.  There are times my partner and I do debate serious issues and we get passionate and argumentative (in a very respectful manner), but my partner is not one to fold in the heat of discussion.  She is far from a timid person.  If anything, I tend to be the one who "folds" before she does.

 

In terms of how you portray my online personality so be it.  I think it is important to be honest at all times, even if the honesty hurts.  However if the honest hurts, it is good to be tactful.  I will say I have not been the most tactful person in this thread.  

 

Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post
 

"I despised my mother so much for behaving the same way and making me that anxious child"

 

For what it is worth.  Forgive your mother, it is the only way to heal your soul.  Find a way to stop blaming her for "making you anxious" and take responsibility for your own feelings.  Open your eyes to who has the control in your life... YOU.  Best of luck with your journey.  

Your children must be young indeed if you haven't started seeing that the way a parent acts affects how children feel.  I stated that I was anxious as a child and it broke my heart to see her anxious in the same way, not that I blame my mother or am anxious now.  I think people who blame their parents for who they are as adults are silly but I think people who see their children hurting and don't try to change it when they can are abusive so I chose to change how I was behaving because I recognized what she was going through, not because I despise my mother now (hence the "ed" ending).  My mother, like all mother's did the best she could but your focus on that wasn't a real focus, it was an attempt to manipulate me and other people who read it into thinking that my post was about something it wasn't.   

 

Being able to debate an issue with someone not the same as being willing to open up about your feelings when you know it is just going to end with your feelings being hurt and your partner insisting you are wrong and twisting your words.  Debating an issue isn't a very intimate thing, people do it on the radio all the time and they don't go off and live together happily afterwards.  Opening up about what truly matters to us is something only people who feel they will be safe from emotional harm.  The level of aggression you show in each of your posts when you don't like an idea doesn't sound like something you can just leave at the office and online.  Aggression doesn't work like that, it takes over your life and bleeds into all aspects even when you think you have a handle on it.  If your immediate response against strangers, people with whom you have no emotional connection to, is aggression when they say something you don't like then it is something that is almost certainly there when you react to your wife who you are deeply connected to emotionally. 

 

I also don't believe that you see trying to change a controlling personality as being the same as not standing up for oneself.  To leap to that extreme is silly or shallow, I can't decide which.  I have to say that I don't think that being controlling is the same as standing up for yourself in any case, it is more like bullying in that it takes nobody else into account but not totally like bullying because it isn't a deliberate thing but rather a personality trait. It feels and looks similar though.

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#64 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#65 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#66 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 02:49 AM
 
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I want to thank you for being candid with us and for going out on a limb posting here, considering you havent been posting in a forum type environment since myspace (!!). The only thing of substance i have to add to the discussion is that the times when i havent felt affectionate towards my man is when i feel resentful about something. This typically involves something he said that hurts my feelings, something he promised he'd do that he didnt do, not feeling appreciated (feeling ignored in other words), or wishing i could speak up about something but i feel like i cant for whatever reason. Communication on both sides is needed and i will typically bring up whats bothering me when i feel ready. I hope this helps some.
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#67 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 04:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ronart View Post

As for the good mom praise I respect your feelings but struggle understanding them. 

 

Some other members have described what I mean as well (see Linda on the Move's post). Of course, I have no way of knowing if your wife feels the same way as me (and some other members here) about the whole "good mom" thing, of if the whole "good mom" part of your post has more to do with this discussion board and isn't all that much a part of your relationship. 

 

I could elaborate a little and say that, for me, being a "good mom" is just something I have to do...something that I agreed to do when I decided to have children. Yes, it is sometimes a struggle and one I've made sacrifices to do and something I get help with when needed but, to me, it's just something that needs to be done. Just like my DH has to be a "good dad". We don't get praise for that. It's a basic requirement. 

 

Now, if you're getting into more like something like "good mom" as totally self-sacrificing or whatever, I consider that to be a negative thing and not something to be complimented. It's a weird thing, I guess. 

 

In those early months, YES, being a mom IS just pretty self-sacrificing (as is being a dad). But, that's meeting your child's basic needs...

 

I don't now if this makes any sense... or if it's even relevant. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronart View Post

In some aspects our relationship does follow the "old-fashioned balance.  I find this interesting as we both are fairly earthy/non-mainstream people.  In the end we have ended up playing to our strengths, and they just so happen to be traditional male/female roles.  Just writing that bothers me.  

 

Yep, same here. And we feel the same, I think. Honestly, if I described one day in our lives, I think it would make some MDC mamas skin crawl...   There are days that look so very 1950s...  But, the realities of chore division in a household where a man (or woman) works out of the home full-time and the other parent stays home full-time, need to take into account the fact that those role divisions are often very off-putting for couples these days. Just like you said...  If these roles are off-putting for you, they are likely off-putting for your DW because, the trad. female role seems to me to be the one that is considered the more negatively in our culture. 

 

For instance, somewhere down the road, your DW is going to admit to friends or family that you don't change diapers. If you are not uber "traditional" the chances of her being "looked down upon" (and you, too, for that matter!) are pretty high. It's unfortunate but I think something to consider. 

 

I think it's PATHETIC that we evaluate working parents and how respected their stay-at-home-counterpart is based on the division of diaper changes... but I think we do. I've seen it. I've seen stay-at-home parents either brag about or sheepishly admit to their "number". Ugh, yuck. But, true. Giver her some "bragging rights"...she may come home from a play date feeling rather turned on. And, yes, I do hear myself and am embarrassed to be writing this. Ha!  

 

Some women feel pretty guilty about being able to stay home with their beautiful baby all day that they take on more than they should in terms of child-care. But, that's not good for either couple. For one, it's difficult to relate to eachother when you're not doing what the other person does every day. You can't know what it's like to never be "off duty"...unless there are days where you go right home from work and get right to the baby minding. If you're lucky, you may get a knack for some part of baby minding that your baby prefers you...  This happened for us with our second baby and it's AWESOME in some ways. I now have the wonderful perspective of knowing how annoying it is to struggle through some part of child care knowing that I could just pass the baby off to her dad and both she and I would be happier. Wow, WHAT a perspective!!  

 

Anyway...

 

A lot of this is really OT because no one can know if any of this has anything to do with intimacy issues. 


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#68 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 07:56 AM
 
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As for this thread lets keep it about keeping the love alive in relationships.

 

I guess I don't get how this works w/o providing some ideas of what worked/might have worked for those of us posting... Is it a matter f phrasing? Perhaps "it would have helped me be more receptive to intimacy if he had <done XYZ>" vs "you should try doing XYZ"? 

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#69 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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Yep, same here. And we feel the same, I think. Honestly, if I described one day in our lives, I think it would make some MDC mamas skin crawl...   There are days that look so very 1950s...  But, the realities of chore division in a household where a man (or woman) works out of the home full-time and the other parent stays home full-time, need to take into account the fact that those role divisions are often very off-putting for couples these days. Just like you said...  If these roles are off-putting for you, they are likely off-putting for your DW because, the trad. female role seems to me to be the one that is considered the more negatively in our culture. 

For instance, somewhere down the road, your DW is going to admit to friends or family that you don't change diapers. If you are not uber "traditional" the chances of her being "looked down upon" (and you, too, for that matter!) are pretty high. It's unfortunate but I think something to consider. 

THIS!!! I feel weird talking about our division of labor in my house even though my husband works himself to the bone. He worked so hard last year that he ended up with pneumonia! Also, If I happen to mention that we have a nanny even though I am a SAHM then I get jumped ALL OVER by some folks. I suppose because I don't do enough and I am letting someone else raise my kids (as if!!). I have found myself really defensive at times.

Basically, I feel like I can't win. LOL

Welcome to MDC, OP. LOL! For what it's worth, I think it's okay to say what you are looking for on a thread and then get annoyed when everyone just wants to say what they want without consideration for what you actually need. You weren't asking for "tough love", you were asking to commiserate. I understand this.

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#70 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 10:38 AM
 
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Yesterday my husband told me that even if I were placed in an institution/nut house, he'd still wait until I died to even think of divorcing me or remarrying any one. It was the most romantic thing he's ever said and he definitely got some affection!

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I suppose we're just simple people. I love it when he tells me I'm a good mother, but he rarely does.


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#71 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 11:30 AM
 
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Okay everyone. I just wanted you to know I have removed several posts that were offensive. Please please let's follow 

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#72 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 12:46 PM
 
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Ronart, I appreciate your starting this thread. It's refreshing to have a father participating in these natural-parenting forums.

My husband and I have known each other for almost 30 years and were married for 18 before our miracle baby was born last November. Because we very much wanted to be parents, she's a wonderful gift to us. She's also seismically shifted our world. I feel fortunate that we've already gone through other seasonal changes in our marriage, as this gives us the long perspective that we'll find a new equilibrium. We're also lucky to be self-employed together and to be able to take our baby to work with us, and from early in our marriage, we settled on a means of sharing household chores that felt fair to both of us. Now that our house is chaos on wheels, having had those routines in place makes it easier to get things done (although we're a heck of a lot slower and have lowered our expectations drastically--we'll probably have a neat house again when she's 18). 

Our daughter is awake much of the day--she takes tiny naps and then springs back awake--although she sleeps in approximately four-hour blocks at night. Therefore, I think we get more night rest than many new parents, but the price is that we don't get a lot of time alone together. For that reason, we cherish the intervals of affection we've managed to carve out of our day for each other. Part of our drop in affectionate interaction after she was born does seem to be hormonal. I just haven't had the interest in physical intimacy I used to with the little gal nursing as frequently as she does, which can be multiple times in an hour when she's going through a growth spurt. I've had to remind myself to squeeze my husband's hand, kiss him, or offer a scalp massage (his favorite) when our daughter nods off at night. These are all quick expressions of affection, but they mean a great deal to both of us, and yet it's just so hard sometimes to remember that there's someone besides our little one who thrives on love (and that's not just my husband, it's me too!) 

Here are some things that helped me:

1) Simply the return of my old hormonal cycle just before our daughter's sixth-month birthday. In all kinds of ways, I've felt more myself again. It's important for men to remember that, not only is the libido at an all-time low, but sexual intimacy in particular can be uncomfortable even after the six-weeks-postpartum "green light" period. We need lots of patience and caring and, particularly, touch that doesn't feel like it's inevitably leading to sex. 

2) Feeling like my husband was offering me love with his touch rather than just trying to get love and intimacy from me. He's a caring, compassionate guy, but sometimes I (in my touched-out state) felt like he was just another needy person demanding physical closeness. Once he consciously shifted to offering me loving touch rather than just putting himself in a position to receive it, that felt a thousand times better. 

3) Sleep! You don't feel very loving when you're always trying to catch up on lost sleep. In the beginning, our daughter sometimes had these hours-long suckle-fests that started at 3 a.m. I felt utterly drained. Now that she has a more predictable sleep pattern at night, and she sleeps about four hours at a time, we're both much better rested, less crabby, less overwhelmed, and are taking gradual steps to finding a new equilibrium in our relationship.

I hadn't realized until we became parents just how profoundly having a child changes you. It's my hope for you and your wife that you find your relationship stronger and deeper from having brought forth new life. 


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#73 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 01:28 PM
 
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OP deleted all his posts. Bummer. I thought he had some great things to say.

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#74 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 04:23 PM
 
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Yeah, this has actually turned out to bd a really helpful thread for me, despite the drama that ensued. I'd still live to hear more perspectives on this topic.
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#75 of 82 Old 05-27-2013, 08:04 PM
 
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Hey, Linda on the Move, I REALLY appreciate the comments you made about incorrectly blaming hormones.  It's too easy, for women and men alike, to 'blame' new mom hormones and new mom chemistry for husband/wife 'loss of affection' issues. 


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#76 of 82 Old 05-28-2013, 10:34 AM
 
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My gynecology teacher in medical school shared her wisdom on hormones and emotions We were talking about premenstrual mood swings, and she said that she considered them an opportunity for women to make themselves heard. We talked about how everyone--but women in particular in a sexist society--tend to suppress their initial angry reaction to all kinds of irritants, from the socks left on the floor to the condescending remark or joke involving a stereotype of women. However, that drop in hormones right before the new cycle begins can be enough to suspend this social reflex of suppression for the sake of politeness or familial harmony, and we say what we've been keeping back all month. She urged us to teach our patients to view the mood swings as opportunities for authentic communication (both with ourselves and with others) rather than as something negative like "moodiness" and being "too emotional." I think this can be applied equally well to perimenopause and the postpartum period. 


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#77 of 82 Old 05-28-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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#78 of 82 Old 05-28-2013, 10:49 AM
 
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Thanks for sharing this. This type of thing is hard to share sometimes. I've been through it before--it's completely normal. I always try to look at the who, what, where, when, why's of the situation to figure out how exactly I got to this point. It will really help you pinpoint what is at the core of the problem, and hopefully some dialogue with the man (or woman) can aid both you. Good luck!

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#79 of 82 Old 05-28-2013, 02:06 PM
 
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My gynecology teacher in medical school shared her wisdom on hormones and emotions We were talking about premenstrual mood swings, and she said that she considered them an opportunity for women to make themselves heard. We talked about how everyone--but women in particular in a sexist society--tend to suppress their initial angry reaction to all kinds of irritants, from the socks left on the floor to the condescending remark or joke involving a stereotype of women. However, that drop in hormones right before the new cycle begins can be enough to suspend this social reflex of suppression for the sake of politeness or familial harmony, and we say what we've been keeping back all month. She urged us to teach our patients to view the mood swings as opportunities for authentic communication (both with ourselves and with others) rather than as something negative like "moodiness" and being "too emotional." I think this can be applied equally well to perimenopause and the postpartum period. 

 

Amen, amen, amen.  I've told my dh pretty much the same thing. The things I blurt out in anger one week a month are still just as legitimate and true the other 3 weeks of the month when I'm trying very hard not to 'make mountains out of mole hills' or be too sensitive.  Pick your socks up already.


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#80 of 82 Old 05-28-2013, 03:48 PM
 
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My gynecology teacher in medical school shared her wisdom on hormones and emotions We were talking about premenstrual mood swings, and she said that she considered them an opportunity for women to make themselves heard. We talked about how everyone--but women in particular in a sexist society--tend to suppress their initial angry reaction to all kinds of irritants, from the socks left on the floor to the condescending remark or joke involving a stereotype of women. However, that drop in hormones right before the new cycle begins can be enough to suspend this social reflex of suppression for the sake of politeness or familial harmony, and we say what we've been keeping back all month. She urged us to teach our patients to view the mood swings as opportunities for authentic communication (both with ourselves and with others) rather than as something negative like "moodiness" and being "too emotional." I think this can be applied equally well to perimenopause and the postpartum period. 

Yes, I totally agree with this!
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#81 of 82 Old 06-17-2013, 05:22 PM
 
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I wonder if the OP removed all his posts because he was asked to because they were offensive (I was asked to remove something I quoted from him)....or if he just did it because he was so upset about our responses. In any case, I hope he got something out of the thread. I think a lot of us did. 

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#82 of 82 Old 06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
 
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I think he probably removed them because he felt attacked and just said to heck with it. :-/

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